Morning Joe crew slamming Gillibrand on Al Franken ouster

[njhoneybadger]

[madaboutharry]

1. "There is a difference between murder and jaywalking."

They also let loose on all the democrats who stabbed him in the back and then wanted to hug him after his speech the other day.

Joe and Mika called it right. It was calculated politics.

[janterry]

6. Calculated politics is what

has turned people (on the left and right) OFF of politics.

Why can't we (the left) get this right??

[Hortensis]

10. Franken IS a calculating politician. 3/4 of our Democratic senate

caucus felt Senator Franken NEEDED to resign, and he among them. (The one hypocritically denouncing it so noisily is conservative WV senator Joe Manchin, who's working for the GOP.)

Franken found himself and, with it, all Democrats in congress, in such a position that he and his colleagues agreed this was the way it had to be dealt with.

And here's a big part of WHY:

As sexual harassment persists as a national flashpoint, Capitol Hill has come under scrutiny as a breeding ground for this kind of behavior. A concentration of the nation’s most powerful men and women, congressional staffers and lawmakers have been hearing rumors of bombshell sexual harassment reports to come, possibly implicating upward of 20 or 30 lawmakers on both sides of the aisle.

The notion has raised an important question in a body known for being both archaic and arcane, especially on matters of transparency and accountability: Will Congress be able to credibly address sexual harassment against its own members? (Vox)

The Democratic Party had to take a very firm stand against sexual harassment. We are THE party of women's equality and rights, and the nation needs to know and believe that. Investigation of 8 charges of she-said/he-apologized-and-partly-denied would have been given blanket sensationalized coverage by the national press over several days, possibly exploding into a whole new holocaust as other charges they expect came out.

It wouldn't matter much which party new charges involved. All of this would be a giant gift to the GOP, distracting from genuine GOP crimes, including their support for keeping women subordinated.

Those who got swept up in this insidious hostility toward almost all our Democratic senators (and are now agreeing with Joe's right-wing machinations for god's sake!) should at least be starting to wonder who was behind it. We know who's fanning it.

Those who get that far might then wonder how they personally ended up hauling water for the GOP and Russia.

[Bluepinky]

19. Wrong, Franken wasnt going to resign, he asked for an ethics investigation to prove the allegations

However, he was then stabbed in the back by Gillibrand, along with most of the other Democrats. I was surprised that Senators Sanders and Warren went along with it, as well as most of the others. So much for loyalty.

But no, this thing was a right wing hit job. Franken didn’t sexually assault or harass anyone, and now one of our best Democrats is out.

I know why the Republicans wanted him gone, but I still can’t figure Gillibrand’s thought process. She should be ashamed of herself.

[Hortensis]

29. Bluepinky, Franken "stabbed" himself, although I prefer to

regard it as a principled and selfless decision. Franken AND the senate leadership did initially call for a formal ethics investigation, but the situation continued to evolve and their decisions changed with it.

The stakes for our nation are huge, and they did right. Or certainly are trying to. The assumption that our entire senate caucus, with the exception of a few conservatives working for the GOP, are all a bunch of sleazes is not helping them.

[meadowlark5]

53. Maybe he would have been a tough opponent for 2020 presidential primaries

I think Franken would have done very well had he made a run for president. But All the names you listed, Warren, Gillibrand, Sanders - they all want to be president. If Franken got his ethics investigation and was cleared, he muscled out these 3 with presidential aspirations out of the race.

I don't have a great like for the democratic party right now. The republicans are so good at manipulating the democrats. And they are so gullible so much of the time.

[LenaBaby61]

84. Thank you!

+1,000

[Rustynaerduwell]

22. When you create a zero tolerance policy against all physical contact, or even the hint of it,

you lose the ability to recognize exactly what sexual harassment is. The democrats could very well have allowed for, even demanded, an ethics investigation without hypocrisy. If it were determined that his motives and actions were innocent, his accusers either misreading a touch on the waist, or perhaps whose motives themselves were not so innocent, the exploration could have gone a long way in finding the truth that connects harassment and accusation.

[dalton99a]

30. +1

[Hortensis]

34. Franken's innocence could NEVER be proven, never will be.

However, his reputation could and would have been further mudded and stained far beyond redemption. Just what evidence did you imagine they were going to put up against the charge that he stuck his tongue in someone's mouth? All the sordid charges and details hashed over at great length in every medium so that no one in the nation could miss them?

As for national interest, and they are all public servants, ppinion would be formed by sensationalist blanket coverage of the excitingly purulent accusations dominating cable 24/7, which would begin the day before the ethics investigation started and extend at least 3 days after.

However, IF new accusations came out about ANYONE, that would extend the intense coverage of the accusations against Franken's supposedly snaky tongue and trumpish hands for another week or more, or several.

They were and are expecting another circus, and they and he all agreed it was necessary to get him out of it, that it was a no-win situation.

[riversedge]

38. Thanks for your extended and persistant comments. In the long run it was the best of poor choices

for the Dems in the Senate to do. The circus, if there had been an investigation, would have been more damaging. Happy Solstice--belated I know.

[Hortensis]

40. Happy solstice. More sunshine every day.

Let's hope it's an auger.

And what an elegant and wonderfully brief summary of what I was trying to say.

[SharonClark]

76. Good point.

[yallerdawg]

23. Another wedge to divide Democrats.

God, how we get played.

All Franken had to say was this was all bullshit - and an ethics investigation would clear him.

Instead, he chose to resign.

Kirsten Gillibrand said, "Enough is enough." I stand with Gillibrand.

Al Franken said, "I'm resigning." I agree with Al Franken and accept his choice.

See there?

See how easy it is to not throw any Democrat under the bus?

[Bluepinky]

33. No, Franken didnt choose to resign, he was forced to.

Gillibrand, along with most of the other Democrats, requested/demanded he resign, so he did. It wasn’t a choice on his part. He was planning to stay and had asked for an ethics investigation. Gillibrand was played by Roger Stone and the right wing.

Gillibrand is supposed to be an advocate for people who have been sexually abused, but she apparently can’t tell the difference between sexual abuse and a right wing hit job.

[yallerdawg]

41. I'm not going to pay anymore attention to this divisiveness.

I don't bash any Democrats.

I'm not sure what you propose to be standards of behavior in our elected officials - what you find tolerable - but if Al Franken finds it to be something he regrets, feels ashamed, and decides to resign, that is good enough for me. There is a standard.

[Bluepinky]

56. Gillibrand backstabbed Franken, hes too nice and didnt bash anyone back.

Gillibrand wanted to make an example of someone to show how tough she is on sexual harassment, but she made a mistake in targeting Franken. I have lost a lot of respect for her. Meanwhile, an actual sexual assaulter remains in the White House.
By the way, if you consider a hug to be sexual assault, we have all been assaulted.

[brush]

54. Yep. Gullibility and ambition, not a good combination. She fell for the repug hit job and was...

off to the races.

She threw Al under the nearest bus she could find.

[Gabi Hayes]

60. EXACTLY

Short and sweet

Just like way the filthy liars who’ve appropriated the gop market their BS emotional appeals to the millions of goobers who remain too stupid to tie their own shoes

[LenaBaby61]

86. "She apparently cant tell the difference between sexual abuse and a right wing hit job."

Gillibrand is supposed to be an advocate for people who have been sexually abused, but she apparently can’t tell the difference between sexual abuse and a right wing hit job.

Gilibrand will be able to tell the difference because that right-winged hit squad IS going to come after HER.

[Bluepinky]

89. Well, I hope her Democratic colleagues are more loyal to her than she was to Franken.

[SharonClark]

79. Thank you.

[Demsrule86]

27. I disagree...it was a safe seat and this was a GOP hit job...there shoul d have been an

investigation...we will be fortunate if McConnell seats his replacement. The Dems need to stop dancing to the GOP slime machine tune. They will never stop.

[mountain grammy]

80. Agree

[Ghost Owl]

48. He was asked to resign because Minnesota has a Democratic Governor

They never would have demanded Franken's resignation if Minnesota had a Republican Governor. We all know that. They don't actually CARE about the issue of sexual harassment, they just used it like a Piece of Flair on their vests.

They didn't take the moral high ground, because they only demanded it because they thought it wouldn't hurt them. That's not the moral high ground. That's no firm stand.

They stole Minnesotans democratic vote away, and appointed someone less controversial, but who NOBODY VOTED FOR, and all for the political optics. That's terrible.

[brush]

58. And now the seat will be contested in 2018 not 2020. There will be a special election...

like the recent one in Alabama for Sessions' seat.

In rushing to throw Franken under the bus, guess they didn't think of that.

Or that McConnell might not even seat the replacement Democrat by using the same spurious argument he did in not seating O's SCOTUS pick — "we'll let the people decide"— meaning the 2018 special election in which potential repug candidates are already lining up to run.

[itsrobert]

81. I don't agree.

When 30 Democratic senators don't have your back, there is not much you can do.

[spooky3]

90. And, they didnt even have to have his back.

They could have said that the accusations were concerning, and that they had confidence that the ethics investigation would find the facts, etc.

[dae]

12. Agree 100%.

[LenaBaby61]

82. Still not in love with those 2, because THEY were sucking up to fatso.

However on this account, they got it RIGHT.



Dems and their SELF-INFLICTED wounds.



Gawd

[gordianot]

2. I do dislike Morning Joe on this he has a point.

[DeminPennswoods]

3. Bottomline: Gillibrand

will never be president now. She's permanently labeled as a back-stabbing self-promoter. Oh, I know those qualities are sometimes necessary to win a nomination, but she has been too obvious about it.

[The Wizard]

16. She made a political miscalculation

by jumping on the bandwagon. Bandwagon jumping has its consequences like the jumper being perceived as a fool or petty opportunist.

[NurseJackie]

18. She's not presidential material, in my opinion. This disqualifies her...

... from receiving my support in any attempt to become our party's nominee.

[Me.]

51. Sadly

I find I agree with you Nurse J

[R B Garr]

61. +1000, she's not even Senatorial material, imo. That was such a lowbrow move,

completely self-serving and complete manipulation. She should take her own advice and admit that she needed and accepted help from the Clintons', whom she now said should have resigned, so she should take her own advice.

[lostnfound]

95. We wont really get a choice, you know. I predict candidates for 2020 will be Gillibrand and Booker

In the primaries, that is.

[yardwork]

31. That should be true of everybody else who jumped on this bandwagon.

The list includes Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

[brush]

64. Too bad. Those two should've known better.

[comradebillyboy]

71. It's about what I would have expected from the two of them.

Can't let Gillibrand have the spotlight all to herself.

[brush]

72. Hah! Hadn't thought of that. You're probably right.

[Merlot]

63. She didn't jump on the bandwagon, she drove it.

[IronLionZion]

4. If squeezing a waist during a photo surrounded by witnesses is sexual assault

then most everyone everywhere needs to resign too.

[SharonClark]

83. Creeps me out. I've never had a politician pose with his arm around me or cheek to cheek.

Franken was a good senator, too bad he didn't keep his hands to himself.

[spooky3]

92. The woman in this instance had her arm around Frankens

Shoulder, per the photo. So she didn’t consider that part creepy.

[LisaL]

96. Lots of photos of various politicians with arms around people.

Are you only objecting to Franken's?

[spooky3]

91. Two male students asked me for a hug this week

And I obliged. Guess I’ll be resigning soon.

[Vinca]

5. To this day I think Franken was a Roger Stone set up.

[Va Lefty]

7. This!

[Rene]

13. agree

[bobGandolf]

8. Appreciated but,

I'm glad they brought up Franken. Damn Democrats always need to act quickly in situations like this. When they shoot too quickly, they tend to do more harm to themselves.

[Hortensis]

9. Of course. Throwing gasoline on the far left to burn Democrats

is a standard GOP technique. Lol. They're actually building so many distractions they don't need this for that purpose, just fanning left-wing hostility toward Democrats.

[PearliePoo2]

11. Mika said the Roger Stone/Franken connection needs to be explored. She also said

"This administration is the biggest cluster---- I've seen in my lifetime."

This is the second time I've heard her refer to this mess as a "cluster".

[whathehell]

14. They're also slamming Bill and Hillary Clinton...Yesterday, Mika

very pointedly called out Bill AND Hillary for "'Their' abuse of women"....How would Hillary be to blame for Bill's actions?
...She didn't bother to explain, seemingly just mouthing the RiW talking point used by Trump in his campaign.

[DesertRat]

28. They slammed Hillary throughout the campaign

And both Clintons ever since.

[whathehell]

44. Yes, but I get particularly angry at those who say Hillary "abused" women

along with Bill...What exactly is the reasoning there.

[DesertRat]

47. They're trying to undermine her history as a champion for women

And trying to equate her with trump and other abusers by falsely claiming "she did it too!".

[StevieM]

68. It's disgraceful how they are using her defeat to rewrite history. (eom)

[Butterflylady]

15. I find it strange that these

so called "women that he sexually harrased" kept coming forward, slowly until he announced his resignation and than there were no more. Strange how that worked out.

[RVN VET71]

17. Yep. I noticed that too.

Mission accomplished you think?

For the Democratic Primaries in 2020, how about a bumper sticker: "ANYONE BUT GILLIBRAND" ?

[Bluepinky]

20. Good point. And the womens claims of sexual harassment were getting more ridiculous over time.

I was waiting for the next woman to claim that Franken didn’t actually touch her, but he undressed her with his eyes, and it made her feel uncomfortable.

[riverwalker]

37. actually that was one of the claims

they posed for picture "and he LOOKED like he was THINKING of kissing me". If you look at each individual claim, the more ridiculous they are. Its mass hysteria.

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. Wow. You're right. I didn't notice that until you mentioned it.

[R B Garr]

62. +1, it would have also been nice to at least see one picture of the alleged "assaults".

You would think that the picture takers would have at least been attuned to the assault taking place that they snapped a picture of it.

Not the USO show pic, because that whole atmosphere is juvenile slapstick raunchy stunts, which Tweeden herself participated in.

[Rebl2]

21. Hopefully

when she runs for re-election she will have another Democrat challenge her.

[greymattermom]

26. Somewhere there must be a photo of her

with a male arm around her waist.

[IronLionZion]

42. Senator Gillibrand put her hands on this young male's butt

Notice where her hands are on this other young male



Many people are made to feel uncomfortable because of their own mothers. It's time for her to resign

[dalton99a]

45. Scarred for life, I tell ya!

[R B Garr]

65. If she's that inappropriate in public, imagine what

goes on behind closed doors.

[dalton99a]

66. Yep, where do her hands go while he sleeps?

[DesertRat]

25. Joe is a Republican who propped up Trump

Of course he's slamming a Democrat.

[oberliner]

32. Not as bad as they slammed Hillary Clinton for months

In particular, right before the election.

[riversedge]

35. That is the major reason I avoid watching Morning JOe. every chance he gets, He hits

on the Clinton's every chance!

[oberliner]

36. Mika too

In fact, she was even worse, I thought.

[StevieM]

77. Agreed. Mika is even worse than Joe. And that's pretty bad. (eom)

[StevieM]

78. Joe and Mika are reprehensible. (eom)

[Gabi Hayes]

98. That skunk rose to notoriety as one of the inquisition, I mean impeachment, managers

His entire Career is built on smearing them

Bottom of the barrel

[Squinch]

94. Exactly.

[riverwalker]

39. Gillebrand didnt even go to his farewell speech

She is dead to me.

[brush]

67. Probably too ashamed. I think by now she knows she screwed up.

[standingtall]

43. Forcing Franken was a political calculation and

a miscalculation. The spurious allegations against Franken was a right wing smear job in response to the allegations against Roy Moore.
Democrats jumped into the lynch mob thinking it could help in the Alabama race and they would be better positioned to attack Trump. Forcing Franken to resign had no effect on the Alabama race in fact Jones was polling about 10 points ahead before Democrats in the Senate begin to call for Franken to resign. Right after he was elected Doug Jones said Democrats should cooled it on the sexual allegations against Trump go figure. Democrats are going to look stupid over this once allegations against Democrats in red states surface and national republicans begin to call them hypocrites for the way they handled the Franken situation.

As far as morning Joe attacking the Clinton's. So what he is a repuke or at least he was before Trump. That is to be expected, but you know who else did? Gillibrand.

[Ghost Owl]

70. I notice people trying hard to spin the Alabama win being a result of Franken

and not black voter turnout, which is what actually won them the election (and black folks were ALWAYS gonna vote for Doug Jones).

There's some undercurrent of racism there, trying to give credit for what black Alabamians did to a couple of white Senators from New York (Schumer for being minority leader, and Gillibrand for driving the bandwagon). People don't gotta be so desperate to spin this as a positive political move that they gotta take something away from black folks to do it.

[Trumpocalypse]

46. Of course they did.

She's a democrat. Joe and MEka have always been conservatives who will take any opportunity to slam Democrats.

[SharonClark]

75. Agree. They love to encourage Democratic infighting.

[kcr]

49. Good.

She deserves it. I hope more keep slamming her. This should cost her.

[quickesst]

50. If gillibrand and her posse...

.... had done the right thing and and supported his call for an ethics hearing, Al Franken would not have resigned. The false assumption that he believed it was the right thing to do in the beginning shows a level of willful ignorance beyond belief. The defense of gillibrand and her crew would be worthy of a Faux News feature story.

[MFM008]

52. Anyone else notice

No more weekly accusations since Franken said he would quit???
Anyone?

[Lucinda]

97. +1

nope

[underthematrix]

55. This is the kind of bullshit black women ignore

because it's all about sowing dissension in our ranks. She did what she did but everyone seems to forget it was Rep Jackie Speier who drove this train out the station when she dropped that lug about sexual harassment claims in Congress.

Don't care either way. I'm not gonna drag either one of them. I'm gonna work hard to get them both re-elected.

[question everything]

57. We now know that the pugs were behing the release of that infamous USO photo

I now wonder whether Gillibrand was "encouraged" by some behind the scenes forces..

[jalan48]

59. For Gillibrand, champion of women sounds much better than champion of big tobacco.

If you have Presidential aspirations you need to frame the issues in a manner that puts you in the best light.

[brush]

69. Too late for her. The Franken allegations were the wrong issue to champion for women.

She miscalculated.

Gotta have smarts not just ambition.

[Demit]

73. I think she made more enemies than friends out of this.

Nobody is going to remember it as a brave principled stand. It's going to look like a foolish overreaction at best. And if Tina Smith can't hold that seat, there will be a backlash against Gillibrand as the grand concertmaster. Be interesting to see if her buddies in the party have HER back in that case.

[eleny]

74. I'm not happy about Franken's leaving the Senate

And I wish that Senator G. had called for the ethics review Franken requested. My DU postings on this issue reflect that.

I don't watch Morning Joe. But this smells of an attempt to split the Dems once again. It happened during the campaigns and election last year. Enough is enough. So I'm turning a deaf ear to those who slam Gillibrand.

[mountain grammy]

85. While I dont want to, I agree with you.

We have to move on as hard as it is. We’re in extreme danger and must unite against it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

88. +1

[Mike Nelson]

87. They were correct...

...and have been, on Trump. But I wonder if their personal friendship with him had continued... they might be saying he's simply unconventional... I also noticed today how they accused Hillary of sexually assaulting women, as Bill's wife; this must be something new in marriage responsibility. The one woman Bill is accused of sexually assaulting (rape) should make her case. She deserves to be heard. I'm not sure her story is accurate, though, and, according to her recollections, she isn't sure she's accurate, either...

Gillebrand would be better than a Republican running... but I think she will not win the 2020 primaries, after this; she miscalculated. She should continue to do good work, though.

[Squinch]

93. The Morning Joe crew, who normalized a serial molester to the American public, should shut their

holes.

They really don't belong in this discussion.