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NYT--If This is America: Read it. Read it out loud. And take heart! (Original Post) nolabear Dec 2017 OP
Great editorial. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #1
Now more than ever we need to acknowledge people arent perfect. nolabear Dec 2017 #5
You say that now, and we all seem to agree. murielm99 Dec 2017 #33
Geez... SkyDaddy7 Dec 2017 #45
K&R smirkymonkey Dec 2017 #2
Oh, my, That is good. really, really good. pangaia Dec 2017 #3
I really mean it about reading it out loud! nolabear Dec 2017 #6
K-ed R-ed and Faux pas Dec 2017 #4
Here's Cohen's Facebook page to share the piece. hedda_foil Dec 2017 #34
Yep. But nobody on that side of things will get it. calimary Dec 2017 #7
EXACTLY what I was thinking. "READING IS HARD" nt BamaRefugee Dec 2017 #10
So what? They arent everything. We count too. nolabear Dec 2017 #11
Yeah Johnny Noshoes Dec 2017 #24
+1000 kentuck Dec 2017 #8
Thank you,nolabear. gademocrat7 Dec 2017 #9
Me too. Glad it helps! nolabear Dec 2017 #12
Cohen is another one who loves this country. Thank you, nolabear Hekate Dec 2017 #13
k and r Achilleaze Dec 2017 #14
k and r niyad Dec 2017 #15
Tears in my eyes....Keep resisting! mtngirl47 Dec 2017 #16
Thanks. Needed that. Enoki33 Dec 2017 #17
You know what would have been more courageous? mountain grammy Dec 2017 #18
I think many people - and that includes me - expected Trump to be terrible, but The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #21
And with the GOP fully on board, mountain grammy Dec 2017 #25
Joan Walsh was on MSNBC last week & uttered these words on air: "If we have elections." CrispyQ Dec 2017 #50
+1000! Rhiannon12866 Dec 2017 #46
Thanks! Beautifully encapsulates what many of us feel. maddiemom Dec 2017 #49
It was so easy not to believe he could possibly win. nolabear Dec 2017 #40
I know,and I was right there mountain grammy Dec 2017 #41
Now there's someone who understands what makes America great. byronius Dec 2017 #19
Excellent piece! Puts into the best words what I've been trying to say to friends who Nitram Dec 2017 #20
excellent read, thanks for posting. Hamlette Dec 2017 #22
Oh, hell. What's a Viglink redirect? sofa king Dec 2017 #23
Is that what you got? Beats me. nolabear Dec 2017 #39
Don't know what it was.... sofa king Dec 2017 #55
excellent awesome article underthematrix Dec 2017 #26
Excellent democrank Dec 2017 #27
K&R TeamPooka Dec 2017 #28
We can change - just as so many other nations have had to over the centuries. sandensea Dec 2017 #29
K&R burrowowl Dec 2017 #30
Strong, unequivocal words! Bravo! Puzzler Dec 2017 #31
even after reading some of the comments barbtries Dec 2017 #32
Comments are skewed toward the angry and negative. Always. nolabear Dec 2017 #38
actually the comments i read on this piece barbtries Dec 2017 #47
LOL-I should never use the word always. Or mostly never. Oh now Im confused. nolabear Dec 2017 #51
lol barbtries Dec 2017 #52
The lsos is turning America into Trumpmanistan randr Dec 2017 #35
we all will pay a dear price. barbtries Dec 2017 #48
america is SO exceptional. except the rich. pansypoo53219 Dec 2017 #36
This is not America Ferrets are Cool Dec 2017 #37
Mahalo, nolabear! Cha Dec 2017 #42
Superb cp Dec 2017 #43
Great writing. TomSlick Dec 2017 #44
We should all print out the editorial and mail it to The White House mnhtnbb Dec 2017 #53
Good idea. nolabear Dec 2017 #54

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,718 posts)
1. Great editorial.
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 12:51 PM
Dec 2017

I have not always been a huge fan of Roger Cohen, but he's redeemed himself with this one.

If this is America, where the Great Leader wants you to believe that 2+2=5, and would usher you down his rabbit hole, and struggles to find in himself unequivocal condemnation of neo-Nazis, and you recall perhaps the words of Hannah Arendt, “The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e. the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e. the standards of thought) no longer exist” — if all this you have lived and felt and thought across this beautiful and spacious land, then you must be prepared to “watch the things you gave your life to, broken, and stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools.”

If this is America, and you know where militarism and nationalism and disdain for intellectuals and artists, and the cultivation of enemies and scapegoats, and contempt for a free press can lead, and it pains you to see the world voting against the United States at the United Nations with the exception of Micronesia and Nauru and Palau (and a few others), then you will see that this, Trump’s American travesty, is in fact a lie and an affront and a betrayal.

America cannot be “first,” as Trump insists. It can be a thug and a bully only in the betrayal of itself. It must be itself, a certain idea of liberty and democracy and openness, or it is nothing, just a squalid, oversized, greedy place past the zenith of its greatness....

As a new year approaches, stoicism will prevail, decency will prevail, contestation will prevail, over the Great Leader’s plundering of truth and thought. This is not America. It must be fought for and won back.



nolabear

(41,983 posts)
5. Now more than ever we need to acknowledge people arent perfect.
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 01:26 PM
Dec 2017

I know what you mean about not liking everything about him and I feel that way about numerous people. But we so need passionate allies, and I’ll take these words for the strength they give.

murielm99

(30,741 posts)
33. You say that now, and we all seem to agree.
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 03:29 PM
Dec 2017

But by the time the sun sets, the purity police will have rolled into DU, and anyone who is not progressive enough for them is no good at all.

SkyDaddy7

(6,045 posts)
45. Geez...
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 10:14 PM
Dec 2017

You are 100% correct!! I'm not joking I will zone out stressing over it & thinking about that day because it is coming!! The truly scary part is it ALWAYS HURTS US & everyone swears it won't happen again but it does! Even when we win elections huge chunks of us will go freaking AWOL at the slightest hint policy is not going to unfold & pass like they dreamed it would. No one in politics gets everything they want when they want it...You lucky if you just get a huge chunk. However, the Republicans dominate because they totally understand the concept of taking what you can when the opportunity is there. Keep a united front! NO, not us!!

...Yeah, I'm very worried.

calimary

(81,295 posts)
7. Yep. But nobody on that side of things will get it.
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 01:33 PM
Dec 2017

This is too lyrical. Too literate. Just a little too nuanced for them to understand. Anybody remember dubya stating “I don’t do nuance”? All they can understand and function with is a blunt instrument. To match their mentality.

nolabear

(41,983 posts)
11. So what? They arent everything. We count too.
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 01:51 PM
Dec 2017

Battle cries are for your own. And they are heartening.

mountain grammy

(26,622 posts)
18. You know what would have been more courageous?
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 02:06 PM
Dec 2017

To say all this before the election.. better late than never, I guess.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,718 posts)
21. I think many people - and that includes me - expected Trump to be terrible, but
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 02:22 PM
Dec 2017

did not anticipate quite how spectacularly, galactically, stunningly terrible he would prove to be. I thought he'd keep being a crass, rude, racist asshole who knows nothing about government (or much else), but I did not expect the entire GOP congress to blow him on a daily basis, encouraging him to weaponize his fundamental awfulness.

I expected him to suck, and that we'd have to deal with yet another stupid, sucky president like W, but Trump sucks hard enough to bend light.

mountain grammy

(26,622 posts)
25. And with the GOP fully on board,
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 02:42 PM
Dec 2017

I honestly think there’s a real possibility of no elections in 2018, and I expect a large outbreak of violence.

CrispyQ

(36,470 posts)
50. Joan Walsh was on MSNBC last week & uttered these words on air: "If we have elections."
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 11:35 AM
Dec 2017


I can't recall which show she was on, but no one commented on that, they just continued with what they were discussing.

nolabear

(41,983 posts)
40. It was so easy not to believe he could possibly win.
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 06:45 PM
Dec 2017

Not to mention that he didn't. Yeah, lots of things would have been better I suppose but without the evidence to back it up it would have been conjecture. I know the minions won't care but WE care, and I think more and more of us are paying attention all the time.

mountain grammy

(26,622 posts)
41. I know,and I was right there
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 06:55 PM
Dec 2017

Predicting a Hillary landslide..I wasn’t hearing that from canvassing where I live, but it’s red, and I just refused to believe he could win, and, of course, he didn’t.

The people I know supporting him don’t know anything about him and don’t care. That’s what really gets me. They don’t care what a nasty and horrible man he is.

Nitram

(22,803 posts)
20. Excellent piece! Puts into the best words what I've been trying to say to friends who
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 02:21 PM
Dec 2017

are in despair and on the point of giving up.

sandensea

(21,636 posts)
29. We can change - just as so many other nations have had to over the centuries.
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 03:06 PM
Dec 2017

But it'll take the defeat the right-wing noise machine, and above all willpower.

barbtries

(28,797 posts)
32. even after reading some of the comments
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 03:26 PM
Dec 2017

i'm still crying.
i hope democracy and the constitution will prevail.

nolabear

(41,983 posts)
38. Comments are skewed toward the angry and negative. Always.
Fri Dec 22, 2017, 06:42 PM
Dec 2017

That's an important thing to remember. People who are in agreement or have a positive response have a much lower urge to rage and snark. We have to remember that seeing them doesn't mean they're in the majority. They're just throwing a fit.

barbtries

(28,797 posts)
47. actually the comments i read on this piece
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:10 AM
Dec 2017

were confirmatory and many well written. i didn't read them all but the ones i did anyway.

barbtries

(28,797 posts)
52. lol
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:20 PM
Dec 2017

these comments were good. they're not always. but the piece itself was so well done and much of the replies kept the spirit and the poetry and it made me cry because i was moved.

mnhtnbb

(31,390 posts)
53. We should all print out the editorial and mail it to The White House
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:37 PM
Dec 2017

and to our elected representatives with a note:

We will win in 2018.

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