It's not the religon, it's the hypocricy

[louis c]

I have a religious family. They're Roman Catholics. Yet, when they talk politics, they sound like the Evangelicals that supported Roy Moore and the Trump brigade. I'm a non-religious, unbeliever. But, I've read the Bible, especially the New Testament. I believe in the philosophy of Jesus, and I can separate that from the fairy tales. Working for Peace, helping the poor, loving thy neighbor, turn the other cheek. Those are universal beliefs. The fact that I love history, one can't leave the Bible out of any reading. After all, it was the only book that the masses read (or had interpreted to them) for over a thousand years.

My Aunt criticized the Pope for speaking out in favor of migrants and immigrants. WTF. My cousins are, basically bigots. My wife, who is Filipina, refuses to go to family gatherings because of their veiled, or sometimes, not so veiled bigotry.

I can really admire a truly religious individual (that doesn't mean I agree with them all the time). If a Christian really believes in helping the poor, that it's difficult for "a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven". That Jesus wants all of us to accept strangers in our midst. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." I firmly believe that no Christian, that accepts the Bible as the word of God, can admire or defend Donald Trump. He is exactly what the Bible says that Jesus detests.

So, it's not the religious devotion that I disagree with in most of my relatives, it's the hypocrisy.

[Wounded Bear]

1. Well said...

[dalton99a]

2. Many conservative U.S. Catholics dislike the current pope

too much of a free-thinking hippie leftist

[SeaDoo77]

26. You Are Right - They Serve Satan And Want A Pope Who Ignores The Poor

And only wants to start wars EVERYWHERE so Armageddon hurries up and gets here.

[Phoenix61]

3. I completely get it

My brother is a born again Christian who whole heartedly supports Twitler, the NRA and several other things I find just flat out mind boggling.

[louis c]

6. I find myself speaking with a dozen so called Christians

and it turns out, I'm the only one who ever read The Book.

[Irish_Dem]

4. They aren't really Christians are they?

They do not follow the teachings of Christ.

And if they do not follow the pope are they even Catholics?

I wish Jesus would return and start kicking ass and taking names.

[cpamomfromtexas]

7. I totally agree. Hope he also brings some badass Archangels

With swords and flamethrowers too.

[Irish_Dem]

12. Yes, if St. Michael returns, he is the head of the angelic army,

it would be game over for the evil GOP.

[njcpa1978]

28. Except...

That is not what Jesus is about. Though there was that little altercation with the merchants in the temple, but they deserved it.

[Irish_Dem]

32. Jesus would re-inact the Temple scene if he came back.

At least that is my fantasy.
I think it is what he is about.

[Drahthaardogs]

30. Catholics are required to be loyal to the Magesterium

Under the Roman Rite.

They are simply "cafeteria Catholics"

[Irish_Dem]

33. Yes, the Popes have just shaken their heads at American Catholics. nt

[SHRED]

5. Patriarchal religions really turn me off

But I get what you are saying.

[CrispyQ]

8. You can almost tell what kind of Christian someone is by the political party they associate with. nt

[Ferrets are Cool]

9. I am so with you on this....

I hate hypocrites almost more than any other group. And religion is FULL of them. Even though I am a atheist, I do my best to live by the supposed words of jesus because they are how we should all live our lives. Even a fairy tale character can teach us how treat other human beings.

[Paula Sims]

10. THANK YOU for pointing out the difference

Sometimes on the DU I feel I need to hide my religious nature because it doesn't go with the crowd.

In truth, I am very religious because it works for US (my husband and me). We go to church and enjoy it. We visit the sick, open our hearts, time, and money (as we can) for the needy, and help in whatever way is needed and we are able. However, we don't judge others for not being that way because it's not our place - Judge Not Least Yea Be Judged. But that's US - and we don't hold anyone else to that standard. With two exceptions. . .

How you treat others and animals. That's where we draw the line. Your method of believing is private and up to you. If there is an afterlife and we are judged on this life, I will answer for my behavior and others for theirs. We do what we do because it's the right thing to do - not because it's expected or there's a reward.

That said, my husband has an aunt that is more Republican than Roman Catholic and since we said that we love Pope Francis (Pope Frank) then she hasn't had us over for Christmas since.

Like all belief systems, including secular, religion can be a place of solace or a cloak - just depends on how it's used.

Merry Christmas to all!

[atreides1]

22. If I may say this?

You and your husband appear to be followers of the teachings of Christ, and as follower of the Morrigan, I have much respect for you!

Many like to claim that they are Christian, much like someone who wears a Rolex will pretend to be rich!

[Paula Sims]

36. Yes, we are - Ukrainian Catholic Byzantine Rite to be exact

And thank you to note that we show what we follow. Our religions are not important - our treatment of others is.

Interestingly, my brother is a Satanist (yes, THAT) and he LOVES Trump and truly acts like him. Guess we act out our beliefs!

[njcpa1978]

31. Moral centering

I enjoy our church also (Episcopal) for similar reasons. We house displaced families on a rotating basis with other churches in NJ. We have a wonderful community of congregants. and we have the opportunity for moral centering. As you said, 'how' one gets to enlightenment is a personal decision. Just be good to other people.

[ck4829]

41. You're not alone.

[genxlib]

11. Are you familiar with the Jefferson Bible?

It sounds like that describes you.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

[safeinOhio]

21. I had seen a Red Letter Bible years ago.

All the words spoken by Jesus are in red letters. Now there is the Redletterbible.org. A very liberal group. I would think, as a Christian, those would be the words to follow.

[logosoco]

13. Very well said!

I was raised Catholic, but it did not take! She still takes part in her church and it makes me happy that that makes her happy. We don't talk much about much of religion, but we do agree on the love and "judge not" part. When my kids and my grandsons were born, I let her bring some holy water and do her own version of baptism because it meant something to her. And she seems fine that they have grown to be free thinkers.

There are many good stories in the bible and yes, Jesus had a wonderful philosophy. It is hard to see others say they stand by the bible, but they have not read the whole thing, obviously. The Republicans have perfected this "pick and choose" style. There is so much in the bible about love and not greed, but they hone in on small, obscure parts like the part they think talks about homosexuality! It is obvious they have not read the rest of that passage!

I do not believe the bible story of creation, nor do I believe in heaven or hell. This life is it and, well, as fitting for Christmas day, you better be good for GOODNESS sake! Not for some promise of paradise later!!

My attitude these days has been something like I don't need laws and cops to stop me from robbing or murdering people. I don't do those things because it is the wrong thing to do. Morality does not come from a book. It comes from caring about people. Trump and the republicans have shown very clearly for many years now that they do not care about people or the planet. They care about profit and their bank account. That is not in the bible i have read!

(as you can see, this is something I think about a lot! Good to hear others thoughts!)

[pangaia]

14. One of the most common themes attributed to Jesus is to "WAKE UP!"

If understood and followed by attempts to do so, this would certainly help.

[sarcasmo]

15. Agreed.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

16. Hypocrisy

Is a hallmark of most "christians" I encounter.

[eleny]

17. Good for your wife

I bet that you're very proud of her sense of self respect.

[Mountain Mule]

18. Couldn't agree more!

[HopeAgain]

19. Same way I look at things...

I'm part of that growing segment of the population that considers myself "spiritual but not religious.". I totally respect anyone who is consistent with the spiritual parts of their faith. So many today lean towards piety and dogma because it appeals to the lesser parts of their nature such as bigotry, tribalism and just being judgmental.

[elmac]

20. very true, it is the hypocricy

I never got into the mainstream fear based religions. I have nothing against them as long as they are a positive force. But I see way to much negativity linked to religion since the fascist party became the voice of said religion.

[TryLogic]

23. I was raised deep in the middle of fundamentalism.

I was about 30 before I was fully able to break the bonds of indoctrination. One of the main characteristics I left behind was fear. They live in fear. They are afraid of change, science, god, satin, people who are different from them, people who do not believe what they believe, etc. They need guns and autocrats and cults to help them feel safe. Not that they would ever admit this. Basically I would feel sorry for them, except that they and their religions cause so much trouble in the world. Guns, autocrats, hateful us-versus-them attitudes and behavior. I admit religions do a little good in the world, here and there, but mostly I see religious based hate, killing, stupid voting, and support for disastrous, hateful policies. They follow and support any self-serving politician or con man who convinces them he is a real Christian. Or, maybe they just believe god is in control, so whatever happens is part of god's plan. As they move us all toward destruction of the planet, or civilization, we might all experience hell.

[elleng]

24. Thank you.

[weissmam]

25. pretty simple

most Christians aren't ,

they use it as a way to make them selves feel superior to everyone who isn't

[KPN]

27. Hear, hear!

You must be living inside my head!

[SeaDoo77]

29. I Am Not A Christian - I Am A Follower Of Christ

Pretty much the opposite in most cases.

No desire to be involved with the Klan, or other hate based "religious" scum.

And traitors too.

Jesus above the law? No.

[Moral Compass]

34. I cannot disagree with you

I can’t disagree with you.

It is not the religion but, as you say, the hypocrisy.

I have seen in my life true and admirable religious faith. It was something both incomprehensible and inaccessible to me.

But as I’ve already said it was admirable.

I was raised a Catholic and went to Catholic school twice and when I was 12 I found myself having a crisis of faith. The reason I was having a crisis of faith was because I had started reading about the history of the Catholic Church.

I found that it was filled with violence, torture, and incredible level of hypocrisy.

I can remember when I was checking some books out from the adult section from the Pauline memorial library (the school I attended). The librarian argued with me about checking those kinds of books out. I told her that my mother and my father were in complete agreement with me checking out anything I wanted to. However, she ended up calling my mother.

My mother was very short with her. I heard her snap across the phone, “let him check out anything he wants to check out!”

So, I continued to read and my faith continued to deteriorate.

In fact, the truth was setting me free. By the time we lived in Bogotá and I had spent close to eight months attending mass every Sunday at the Catedral Porceuncula I had reached my limit.

One Saturday I got my father and my mother together and informed them that I would no longer be attending church. They seemed a little bit shocked and a little bit surprised but after I explained why they honored my decision.

So a number of years later I was attending Southwest Missouri State University.

I ended up taking a comparative religions class because I needed the hours for my degree. And while I was taking that class I became great friends with a Dr. Tom Poe and I was privileged to meet Dr. Gerrit Tenzytoff.


I was known already as an almost violent agnostic.

Indeed, I was angry about having had to lose my faith.

The comparative religion class was at 7:30 in the morning and in spite of the fact that, to be honest, I was an alcoholic and was always always hung over at those hours I was incredibly engaged by this comparative religion class and by the professor, Tom Poe.

While others slept Tom and I had these free wheeling discussions about faith and religion and from every aspect. We talked about Buddhism and Taoism and paganism and Christianity and Islam. At one point we were so consumed with our one on one conversation that he had completely lost track of the rest of the class and there was a girl sitting directly behind me. She raised her hand and said “Dr. Poe I have a question” and we both stopped and looked at her and we noticed that there were tears streaming down her face.

Her question was not so much a question as a statement. And what she said in a halting, shaking voice was that our conversation was challenging the foundations of her faith.

Tom very quickly pointed out to her that this was not a theology program and it was not a faith-based program and it was not a class about Christianity and that she was going to be exposed to ideas and concepts that were going to challenge her faith. I don’t remember whether she stayed in the class after that or not.

But what I do remember is that a few days later Tom introduced me to Dr. Tenzytoff and I realize that I was being introduced to a saint.

He was Lutheran and always had been Lutheran and so I would never be a Catholic saint.

But nevertheless I realizedn that in my all too brief conversation with him that he was indeed a saint.

Somehow in the very brief conversation that we had he managed to tell me that he had been a contemporary of Karl Bonner and that he had failed to support Karl and lived when Karl died.

I could tell that this was something that paint him very very greatly. He had been confronted with the ultimate evil and had remained in his own country and basically hid and was silent during the worst of Nazism.

While Karl was dying in Dachau young Geritt Tenzytoff was keeping himself safe and he never escaped the guilt of this.

The only reason I am telling you this today is to let you know that there are true Christians out there.

I didn’t have the strength or the faith to be one of those. I’ve tried throughout my life to be kind, charitable, and be a good person. But I know very well that I have failed most of the time.

That these people exist give me hope. There are other times when I watch what’s going on right now I have no hope at all. But I have met a Christian saint, a Muslim saint, and a Jewish saint.

Even though I’m not a believer I could not help but recognize that these were special people.

As I have gone through my life during the season I’ve noticed the people are being kinder, gentler, and more Christian than I think any other Christmas that I remember.

Perhaps it is the Trump effect.

This man who embodies the ugliest traits of any human being that has ever existed I think is making us remember that this is not who or what we want to be.

I’m sorry that so many Christians are such hypocrites. But I don’t think that there any more hypocritical than they have ever been.

Hold onto your humanity and hold onto the things that make you a good person. I believe that we’re going to come out of this stronger than we’ve ever been even (though at times I don’t really believe).

Merry Christmas. Happy new year. Resist!

[Skittles]

35. you don't need religion to do the right thing

you can actually help the poor, live simply, do the right thing WITHOUT religion

[Paula Sims]

37. Interestingly, my brother is a SATANIST and a follower of Trump

When I used to hear Trump speak I used to have flashbacks to my brother. They are so much alike (the lies, the exaggerations, the superfluous comparisons).

Hmm. . . Some people say Trump is an anti-Christ so. . .

[VMA131Marine]

38. I get the sense that for a lot of these so-called Christians

Christianity is about being seen at church with the "right" people. Living a "Christ-like" life would be really hard (I mean *really* hard)j so hard that basically nobody comes close to doing it. Conspicuous Christians are doing it wrong.

[jimlup]

39. It may not give you pause because I think you already realize it but

you are the true Christian in the family.

[louis c]

40. It's what my 82 year old Aunt said that really gave me pause

She complained that she had to sit through her Christmas mass and listen to the priest talk about the pope's message of accepting immigrants and refugees, as this is the true meaning of Jesus' word, as told to us through the Bible.

I said , "Are you kidding me? When interpreting the word of Jesus Christ, you take the word of Trump over that of the Pope?"

At that point, I had to leave.

[jimlup]

43. Yes that is completely understandable

[lindysalsagal]

42. When individuals care for others they get the credit, not the church or dogma.

They are the exception to the church. Churches are businesses and they thrive on hate, shame, blame, fear, guilt, and their leaders use it all for their personal influence and comforts. My grandfather was a minister who left my grandmother and father and married a second woman and had kids all without a divorce. Have an uncle "priest" who's just as bad. Grifters, liars, cheaters, all.

The church is the oldest scam in history.

[nolabear]

44. You can see the inner struggle we face via religion

And what is happening now parallels every religious story ever told. I’m an atheist but I have always appreciated how we translate big, confusing and troubling things we think about into metaphors and stories. But they universally deplore and abhor exactly what we see now. Buddhism warns against hungry ghosts who cannot be satisfied, against attachment to possessions, anger, goals , etc. in ways that make us always anxious, Christianity in all its forms warns that turning a blind eye to others’ suffering is not only cruel but brings societies down, Judaism warns against following fools.

I despise what people turn the interesting philosophy of religion into, and it’s warned against specifically in pretty much every one of them.