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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Aiding and Abetting"
@DavidCornDC
Whatever scheming there may have been, Trump and his colleagues constant denying of Russian meddling provided cover for the Russian attack on the US election. That was aiding and abetting.
I dont understand how people think theres still a question of *whether* there was collusion, as opposed to how extensive was it? The campaign got advance word that Russia had thousands of hacked Dem emails, yet consistently feigned doubt publicly.
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
AmericanActivist
(1,019 posts)But wait theres more...
BigmanPigman
(51,632 posts)there is no war currently being fought?
Voltaire2
(13,194 posts)Although a specific situation that resulted in war might.
The treason thing is a distraction. People use treasonous in its non legalistic meaning and then conflate that with the actual legal definition. It is an essentially dishonest argument. (An equivocation fallacy. )
We are not at war with Russia. We have normal diplomatic and (more or less normal) trade relations with Russia. Trump and his gang likely broke a lot of laws conspiring to get stolen emails, but the treasonous bastards are not going to be charged with treason.
triron
(22,023 posts)does it state we must be at war??
Here is the definition:
"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
Voltaire2
(13,194 posts)has always meant exactly what it says. But please find an alternative legal interpretation of the federal treason statute that has ever been applied.
Here is Justice Marshall making this very clear in 1807:
"To constitute that specific crime for which the prisoners now before the Court have been commuted, war must be actually levied against the United States. However flagitious may be the crime of conspiring to subvert by force the Government of our country, such conspiracy is not treason."
triron
(22,023 posts)OR implies either only one has to be true not both; notwithstanding Justice Marshall's opinion
Additionally an argument could be made that Russia, by attacking the electoral process of the United States, was committing an act of war (cyber warfare).
Voltaire2
(13,194 posts)We are in a state of war with Russia and treason charges against Trump are imminent.
Or not.
There might be criminal charges against Trump. There wont be Treason charges. You might believe we are in a war with Russia, fortunately you dont get to decide these are things.
triron
(22,023 posts)Not arguing that.
Voltaire2
(13,194 posts)You might feel like we are or that we should be, but we arent. Treason, as I keep repeating, requires that as one of its conditions.
triron
(22,023 posts)TomSlick
(11,110 posts)While there has been no declaration of war, there was no declaration of war in the last few wars. There seems little question that the Russian intrusion into the US election was an act of war - a new kind of war - but war none the less.
The only way to know would be to charge some one with treason. If the charge got past the trial judge and the jury convicted, SCOTUS would ultimately decide the question.
There are obviously easier cases to charge and prosecutors aren't usually out to set legal precedent. But, it would be interesting.
Voltaire2
(13,194 posts)not charged with treason, as that would not apply. He was charged with a shitload of other major offenses. There was no shortage of laws to charge him. Just not treason.
Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,045 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,311 posts)The Cold War never ended, just like the McCarthy era investigations never ended, or at least not until 1980 when the VENONA project ceased.
They told us the Cold War ended as the Berlin Wall fell, but the Soviet state merely passed to private enterprise. Many higher ups remained the same. The politburo melted into a generation of oligarchs with their own security needs. The militaries of both countries are ongoing. Putin is a former KGB officer. I don't believe Russia has given up its sovereignty, nor have the old Soviets forgotten the struggle in post-war Eastern Europe.
No state of war exists, technically, but we catch their spies, they catch ours.
Treason can't happen without a declared war? The term has sure been bandied about for Snowden, Assange & Co.
Voltaire2
(13,194 posts)Neither Snowden nor Assange nor Trump et al have committed treason.
The "cold war" was not a state of war. Nobody caught spying for the USSR was charged with Treason. For example the Rosenbergs were tried convicted and executed for espionage.
"No state of war exists, technically," The thing about laws is that "technically" actually matters.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,045 posts)They are refusing to act on security measures for elections at all level and for all aspects for the operation of elections: voter suppression via database sharing with Russians, voter machine security, tabulation server security, party operations security.
Voltaire2
(13,194 posts)Still doesn't fit the legal definition f treason.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,045 posts)Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)..This Trump Guy Had The Worst Year Any Person Of Power
Could Of Possibly Had, Despite Fox News Giving
Him A Prostate Massage For His Lack Of Doing Anything at All.