Why Franken Had to Go (please read before lighting hair on fire)

[marble falls]

Why Franken Had to Go
By Christina Cauterucci

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/12/07/al_franken_s_resignation_saved_the_democratic_party_s_reputation_among_the.html

Minnesota Sen. Al Franken announced on Thursday his plan to resign “in the coming weeks” after a series of allegations that he groped women and kissed them without consent. “There is a big part of me that will always regret having to walk away from this job with so much work left to be done,” Franken said in somber remarks on the Senate floor. “But I have faith that the work will continue because I have faith in the people who’ve helped me do it.”
<snip>

The dilemma boiled down to this: Democrats could either put themselves at a potential political disadvantage by observing rules of decency Republicans have entirely abandoned, or they could lower themselves into the GOP latrine, keep Franken on the roster, and spend the next several election cycles smelling a little like shit. Democrats seemed content to hold their nose and bear with Franken through the first half-dozen accusations. But when a seventh accuser came forward this week, at least 17 Democratic senators—mostly women—publicly urged Franken to step down, leaving him little choice.

However unfair it may be that Franken is leaving Washington while admitted assailant Donald Trump is still in the White House (Franken called it an “irony” in his remarks on Thursday) and Moore might be on his way to the Senate, it is clear that Democrats, and Franken, made the right call.

Republicans have never held themselves to the same standards of behavior as Democrats, and it will never be a good idea to sink to the GOP’s depths of hypocrisy. Theirs is the party that panders to a set of rabid anti-abortion voters who couldn’t care less about the transgressions of its leaders as long as they vote to curtail women’s bodily autonomy. Its tolerance even extends to men who privately tell their own extramarital girlfriends to get the abortions its voters despise. It’s the party that lifted Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court, positions the Violence Against Women Act as an assault on family values, believes equal pay legislation is anti-male, bemoans the days when women stayed home to keep house, and works to make it harder for colleges to combat campus rape. Dems are hardly blameless—no less than Joe Biden did Thomas a big favor by casting doubt on Anita Hill’s claims of sexual harassment—but in the Republican Party, contempt for women is a feature, not a bug. It would do Democrats no good to start hedging their own commitment—new as it is, for some—to gender equity.

<snip>

There’s another still longer game to think about, too. In the best-case scenario, the hurt caused by Franken’s resignation will be a memorable lesson to Democrats: Don’t mistreat women, or promote the candidacies of people who do—otherwise, your party might take a debilitating loss when it can least afford it, and the whole country will suffer. The moral high ground can be painful to walk, but at least there are fewer gropers there.

[dalton99a]

1. Did Franken mistreat women?

[Shemp Howard]

28. Yes.

That silly picture of Franken groping (or pretending to grope) Leeann Tweeden was disrespectful. It can reasonably be called a mistreatment of a woman. To spin it any other way is ludicrous.

But it was a very minor thing. No threats were involved. No physical force was involved. It was just a silly, careless action on Franken's part. Franken apologized, and Tweeden accepted his apology.

So let the punishment fit the crime. At most, Franken should have received a letter of reprimand from the Senate. Something like "We disapprove of what you did there". I'll bet Al himself would have signed that letter.

I am appalled that Franken is resigning over this. And I am more appalled that so many self-righteous Democratic senators helped push him out the door.

On edit: That photo was the only thing I brought up here. All the other accusations against Franken are too weak to consider, in my opinion. And I did not discuss the accusations against Trump, Moore, etc. One case at a time.

[Zambero]

63. Context

Yes, a photo spoof taken during the course of a (by all accounts) characteristically bawdy USO tour. The onstage shot of Tweeden herself grabbing the bass player's ass demonstrates that any show of disrespect or mistreatment was conducted accross both sides of the the gender spectrum. Tweeden comes across as a whiny and opportunistic hypocrite. Sean Hannity and minions? All smiles while propping up the likes of Roy Moore. To his credit, Franken managed to keep his self-respect. We haven't heard the last from him.

[DemocracyMouse]

80. It was satire!

Franken was doing Vaudeville. Trump, Moore, Weinstein, O'Reilly et al were doing villainy. There's a difference and had Franken been given due process it wouldn't take long for the Ethics Committee to sort it out.

If you can't see the difference you may need to take a couple classes in literature and cultural studies. Or maybe you're simply against the first amendment?

[Alice11111]

83. Right on, Dem Mouse!!!

[DemocracyMouse]

130. Thank you Alice!

Marble Falls, you havent responded to any of these comments. Americans have lost a champian due to what they (and I) perceive as ill-considered and impulsive scapegoating. Have you taken in these responses?

Do you understand the difference between staged and actual harassment?

Did the involvement by Republican operatives register?

No one here, I believe, faults you for taking a principled stance against actual molestation and abuse of power. There's just a growing sense that the abuse of power may be by both Republican operatives and Democrats calling for a comediian's ostracism.

[Kimchijeon]

113. I agree, too many can't or won't see that it was satire!

As a lover of all things comedy I am so disappointed in how the whole thing played out. Most of this was intentionally pretending it was "serious" and a big chunk of the public falling for the wave of hysterics and "me too". Now folks doing comedy/public light are rethinking things in the past they might have done, now anyone can dredge up something out of context for revenge, and it would work (sadly.)

Satire and sarcasm are being either ignored or misunderstood. A bit of both maybe. Even on DU I have had some of my own posts misunderstood lately as if they weren't sarcastic or satirical. I feel like I have to post big flashing "reminder- this is satire/sarcasm" flashing GIFs all over my posts nowadays, if they are the slightest bit raunchy, crude or imbued with crass language.

It's just nuts!

[Alice11111]

184. Gone nuts, off the rails, agree. BTW, I spent my career

as a sex harassment lawyer and my daugter is a survivor. These people who called out Franken ain't seen nothing.

Holy cow, a Senator with integrity who has the courage to take on the high level Repubs, and the Dems stage a lynch mob to take him out befoe the facts come out, after a RW plot, it is the end. If Guillibrand doesn't go, our party is severely damaged. I am ashamed of what the Dems did to Franken, and ashamed that they fell for the Repub set up.

[Eliot Rosewater]

126. And like with Hillary, America doesnt deserve brilliant, dedicated patriots like her or Al.

We keep proving it over and over, we toss them aside at the drop of a hat.

Or in HRC case we sit back and let filth attack her for 25 years.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

132. and don't forget Al Gore

and John Kerry

[pintobean]

133. Pretending to molest a sleeping woman isn't funny

Maybe you need the classes in cultural studies.

[wellst0nev0ter]

141. Playing grabass on stage isn't funny either

But the accuser did it anyway. Where's that leeway for Franken?

[pintobean]

147. Playing grab-ass requires willing participants and isn't a crime.

Franken was pretending to commit a crime against an unwilling participant.

[wellst0nev0ter]

148. Was the guy willing?

No he was surprised, but nobody was harmed, just like the photo.

Recognize a ratfucking when you see one.

[Zambero]

178. A sexist notion perhaps?

All men by virtue of their gender are "willing" to be groped by a female, and therefore the perpetrator's motivation should never be questioned? And in this instance, the woman in question seems to have been automatically enshrined as a sleeping beacon of non-consensual virtue given Franken's antics in the photo. Sounds like a bit of a doubje standard, and setup as well given Hannity's involvement. Perhaps they were both innocent. Perhaps they were both out of line. But to imply that the actions of one was OK and the other not OK purely on the basis of gender identity, well, sucks very badly.

[wellst0nev0ter]

186. No, I was pointing out

It is hypocritical for the accuser to smear Franken when she herself is just as guilty of that behavior.

The accusation is as opportunistic as hell, and the right has been documented exploiting the #metoo movement for their own advantage, so don't fall for it.

[Zambero]

190. Exactly

My point of reference was to an earlier post in this thread. Should have clarified that.

[wellst0nev0ter]

191. To be honest

I had been thinking of writing a much nastier reply.

Glad I didn't do it.

[Alice11111]

85. What has happened to reality and common sense? It was

a bawdy comedy skit!
Got that right. That is the worst thing he did, and it was taken out of context.



Dems threw the best one over for self righteous BS, led by G, on her way to find her OWN fame.

[elias7]

79. Of course Tweeden could have apologized for grabbing the musicians ass

She was bought and paid for, and a total hypocrite.

[Alice11111]

86. Yeah, like Trump apologizing. She also grabbed

someone's crotch. How dare Franken use the same skit Tweeden knew about, as he did it for three years. She was an actress in a rowdy skit.

[Alice11111]

81. Well stated. I'm in pain and ashamed at the denial of due process

NOT the values that our party has stood for in the past.

[Skittles]

99. NO HE DID NOT

and FUCK the people who fell for this garbage

[Shemp Howard]

189. Do you think you convinced anyone?

Maybe you're right. But when all you do is swear - in capital letters - you push people on the fence away.

Look, I admire Al Franken. He's the kind of everyman that the Founders envisioned should be in the Senate. But I do believe that he made a mistake, a minor mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

To say that I should be f*cked for believing that...that's just wrong. Try to convince me. Convince me that I have misread this situation. I will listen. And I might even learn something. But swear at me, and I'll just tune you out. And that doesn't help anyone.

[lark]

100. I was a certified rape counselor years ago and am one of millions MeToo women and I disagree -

STRONGLY. There is mile of difference between a "staged" joke done in front of a lot of people and what drumpf, Moore, O'Reilly,
Ailes etc. did. Franken was the best voice for the dems and he's been silenced by rw lies. This was staged by Roger Stone and
tweeden and even the picture was altered. Dems were 100% wrong to do this and no dem is safe going forward when rw lies make their allies push them out without even trying to get to the truth. The camerman said this was staged willingly by tweeden and was done in a crowded room and Frankens security said he never left his side and there was no sneaky kiss. I have rarely been as disgusted by what some of my party did as I am now, putting political and personal expediency over the truth and not even trying to find the truth, just destroying Frankens life. How can he be a voice for us now? He absolutely 100% can't due to total backstabbing and lies.

[TheDebbieDee]

117. That photo was obviously staged and Ms Tweeden was a willing participant!

[trueblue2007]

149. That photo was obviously staged .... and that should have come out publically IN THE INVESTIGATION

I don't think Franken should have resigned.

[Ghost Owl]

179. Yes!

Totally agree. Yes, Franken did something wrong (the picture). Yes, he mistreated Tweeden. Yes, he should have to face consequences for it. But that incident in no way warrants kicking him out, forcing him out of his seat (which should only be for the most serious offenses, which they failed to prove Franken did).

It's like the Lewinsky scandal. Yes, Clinton did something wrong. He shouldn't have been messing around with an intern, nor encouraged her to lie about it under oath, and lied multiple times about it himself (I give him a pass for one of his depositions, the infamous one with the confusing language about what sex is, but he lied about it elsewhere, including under oath;but what you have to take into account with a perjury charge is what was the damage done because of the lie, and I don't think they proved any significant damage done, especially since Paula Jones had dropped her case by then). But it didn't reach impeachment level of Wrongness. Censure him, embarrass him, but lying about a BJ is not impeachment worthy. It's Peyton Place, not Watergate.

[Scruffy1]

137. It was all about power.

Theynames not to be mentioned got rid of the smartest and best in the Senate.

[Ninga]

2. Meh. In my opinion the only delimma the Dems had was the one they created for themselves

by not understanding there is a difference between assault, abuse, and being a prankster.

There is a difference! Truly there is.

[dmr]

64. I agree, and it's curious how

the complaints stopped once Al agreed to step down.

This was a political hit job on a very effective, well-liked, well-respected, and a rarity - an honest Senator.

This is heartbreaking.

[Alice11111]

87. Not over it. Never will be.

Dems fell from grace with this traitorous act, led by Ms. Ambitious, who has attacked other Dems for her own political gain too.

Sad day for Dems. Marching self righteously in unison
to overthrow the Dem with more integrity than all of them put together. Kudos to Leahy for admitting he got caught up and did not do the right thing.

[Laurian]

3. No thanks.

I'm capable of drawing my own conclusion.

[rzemanfl]

4. n/t

[leftstreet]

5. Can we light our hair on fire when a GOPer wins his seat?

[disndat]

22. +1

n/t.

[Alice11111]

94. !!!

[lunamagica]

101. this

[gordianot]

6. It opened my eyes to flaws in a rush to judgement.

I now know who will not be getting my meager donations or support.

[Alice11111]

95. Absolutely!

[TheFrenchRazor]

116. true, there should not be a rush to judgement, but neither should there be a total dismissal of mult

multiple groping charges, because to do that is to say that sexual harassment doesn't matter; it's just "life," and some women need to pull the stick out their arses. if he was innocent he should have demanded and gotten an investigation, but if he was guilty i think he did the right thing to step down. seems like a lot of Franken supporters are tacitly saying that groping charges literally don't matter, at least when they're made against "one of our own."

[dansolo]

121. The accusations shouldn't have been dismissed. They should have been investigated.

Frankly, I don't believe any of the accusations. The whole thing was started by a known right wing entertainer who is associated with Sean Hannity and Roger Stone. The next accusation was by someone who was so distressed by his actions that she chose to post it to facebook with no comments. Then there came a bunch of anonymous accusations reported by sites with unknown vetting policies. We still don't even know if these people even existed. An investigation would have shown all of this.

[wellst0nev0ter]

142. Don't forget the one who told the Atlantic

that Franken (gasp) squeezed her waist

[gordianot]

125. Due process would have been nice.

Throwing out the rules is a Trump tactic it smacks of McCarthyism.

[Lurks Often]

7. I still think there is some missing information

What did the Democrats asking for him to step down say to Franken that convinced him to do so?

Did they have internal polling saying that this would hurt the Democratic Party among the average voters in the 2018 election?

[mn9driver]

8. The real lesson: Ratfucking works on Democrats.

Franken resigned because 35 members of his own party were stampeded into calling for his resignation over taking pictures in public with women that he was guilty of touching while posing.

The women who worked closely with him day and night, in close and even private situations had nothing but praise and support for him. The millions of women who benefitted from his positions and work on behalf of women had nothing but praise and support for him.

If Franken can be ratfucked out of office this way, any Democrat can be. That’s the lesson. Who will be next? And the GOP will laugh all the way to holding their Senate majority in 2019 with a new Republican Senator from Minnesota.

[rzemanfl]

52. +1 n/t.

[Alice11111]

97. Yep, GOP RW won that round as they got us to trample

our own, and the only one who effectively cross examined Sessions or other GOPee-ers They are still laughing!

[Chasstev365]

9. So Democrats should only react to potential fake Republican outrage?

I'm tired of always playing defense.

Al Franken should have gone through the ethics investigation so that REAL harrassers would have to do this same in the future. Now, the whole thing will be quietly dropped.

Also, the Hannity, Tweeden, Stone plot should have been brought to light. Now, they will do it again because it worked so well!

[pangaia]

27. +++++

[ariadne0614]

77. Agree. n/t

[Demsrule86]

109. Democrat should be loyal to other Dems and withhold comment...no reason to force Conyers out before

next election...now we are down 1 for close votes...we should show loyalty...and what was done to Franken was wrong...no point in ruining 18 over it and further helping the Rethugs.

[wellst0nev0ter]

144. They did try to do it to Schumer

another Franken backstabber, I may add. Thankfully they were too stupid in forging a harassment complaint.

[heaven05]

10. BS

[marble falls]

11. Because fighting about it is more damaging than resolving it. Because we have to meet standards...

we expect Republicans to follow. Because this as an issue would have been used against us in the next election cycle. Because this doesn't deserve to the issue to blot out all the other problems we face fixing Congress. Because in the end Al Franken himself decided to leave. Because we ignored half the nation long enough.

[dansolo]

34. It wouldn't have been an issue if the lies were exposed

None of the accusations were credible, and should have been investigated. We need to expose every dirty trick the GOP tries on us.

[marble falls]

45. Why weren't the lies exposed? Was it all 'fake news'?

[tonedevil]

89. Why is that so...

hard to accept. It started with a Republican dirty tricks operator tweeting it was Senator Franken's time in the barrel. I don't know if you recognize that punch line, but it makes it worse if you do. The accusations were all mild mostly anonymous and with weird twists that made them unbelievable. Do you really think the phrase it's my right as an entertainer was actually said by the Senator? I belive in the near future we will see the truth exposed and this will look like defunding Acorn or forcing Shirley Sherrod to resign.

[delisen]

43. How does engaging in injustice make

make up for "ignoring half the nation long enough."

Are we the party of justice or the party of rush to judgement?

Are we the party of reason or the party of guilt by accusation?

Are we the party of voter rights or the party of voter suppression and voter nullification?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. Love that bolded paragraph.

[BannonsLiver]

88. Yes its very simple concept.

No doubt because its intended audience is made up of 6-year olds, or the chronically gullible.

[TexasProgresive]

13. I think this was a case of rampant mob rule.

Due process protocols should've been followed.

[democratisphere]

14. NO. AL FRANKEN DID NOT NEED TO GO AND SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE.

When you sacrifice innocent men for a cause, there are no excuses and the cause is diminished.

[marble falls]

15. Why do you think Franken resigned?

[democratisphere]

24. Ahh...... his fellow DEMOCRATIC Senators drove him out without cause.

The ethics investigation should have moved forward. Instead, Al Franken was thrown under the bus by questionable accusers at best, then certain Democratic Senators backed-up the bus and drove over him again. Says a lot!

[marble falls]

42. He was frog marched to the podium and held at knife point until he made his resignation?....

Or there were more in the party leadership that wanted his distraction from the work ahead to be removed? We have to be about more than personalities.

[democratisphere]

50. We have to be more than single issues.

[marble falls]

59. Exactly right. And this single distraction needed to be removed in a clear way to demonstrate a ....

message: Democrats have zero tolerance policy for any level of assault from a pinch to a rape, so we can get down to the real issues and developing a real, inclusive Congress to get the job done.

Just remember: Roy Jones only has accusations against him including anonymous ones, too. The Republicans have failed miserably at showing any sort of policy regarding sexual assault or any policy about in their party whatsoever.

None of us here on this thread have any special or direct knowledge whatso ever regarding the validity of any of the charges against either Senator.

Personally, I think Al Franken will still be a powerful voice in the party and I would both bet and be glad when he runs for further office. I still would want and would vote for a President Al Franken. But this issue needed to be taken out of the arena as we try to fix Congress.

[USALiberal]

108. Pure Bullshit! nt

[Matt_R]

172. Just remember,

they tried to take out Schumer the same way.

[Egnever]

51. Um no

When you are willing to trash people for political expediency you lose any moral standing you supposedly gain. Not a party I want to be a part of.

[delisen]

56. The fearfulness of Dem Senators troubling

In its essence the move against Franken was based upon fear at a time when I believe most Americans of any gender, are hungry for justice, for fairness, and for kindness.

We once had a leader who told us that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself.

It was the right call for the 1930s and it is the right call now.

[marble falls]

62. The number of braindead voting for Trump, McConnell, Ryan is much more troubling....

and this is what we need to be factoring in on not Al Franken's voluntary resignation.

[Alice11111]

93. +1000000

Lynch mob. No due process.
This is not what democracy looks like.

[Me.]

16. Utter Nonsense

He was the party's CYA

[marble falls]

17. Why was that a bad thing? Did you read the paragraph in bold?

[Me.]

19. When Did We Start Sacrificing Our Best For The Good Of The Party

Once again with Dems, fear won out. Afraid of being called out as hypocrites they gave him the boot without due process...the gang of 34+. And then Schumer had the nerve to call the gov. of Minn. to advise him on who to choose. FRanken asked for an investigation, he should've had one. It was disgraceful.

[pangaia]

29. The bold paragraph is total bullshit.

As is the rest of the resoning.

[Igel]

82. So many reasons.

1. Do we like facts and truth or political expediency?

2. Do we prefer to victimize somebody for power or protect those who might be falsely accused?

3. Do we even distinguish between the terms "accused" and "guilty", or assume that an accusation by one person entails we accept the accused's guilt? Or perhaps we look at who the accused is, and judge based on who that person is, not what s/he's done in this instance? Or maybe we look at the accuser, and say that given that person's status or traits s/he must be taken at face value? (No pun intended.)

I oppose each of these options. Some days I'm far from sure that I'm in the majority here.

I can look to a lot of historical examples where politics =/= truth, people were scapegoated or assumed guilty on the basis of anonymous accusations, and there are lots of examples from all over the world where the accusation was less important than the power relationship between the accused and the accuser.

(Can't help but draw attention to the implication of that last bit: The accusation of the powerful is taken as sufficient evidence against a less powerful accused.)

[demmiblue]

18. Fuck that bullshit. n/t

[Tipperary]

23. Ditto. eom

[elehhhhna]

65. Ditto ditto

[wroberts189]

145. +1 n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

20. Complete horseshit from beginning to end.

eom

[jalan48]

21. We don't seem to have the same qualms about Wall St. companies like Goldman Sachs.

[RestoreAmerica2020]

25. All he has to say is..changed my mind folks! This

..taking the high road while we have a known self admitted predator (access video) in the white house..is just bullshitecaca. Its elliest and smug and if giilbrand thinjsvthis tactic will win voters she's wrong..it didn t work in 2916, won't work in 2918 or 2020.

If I were Franken..Id say .".when pervert (trumpf) resigns then maybe I'll consider it after I've had my day in court until then #!$@ off. And to my most esteemed colleguaes aka " the mob" ..who threw me under the bus...Id say go f#!$@ yourself...I'm not leaving, you'll have to drag me out of my office.

My question, is why is Franken just giving up" without a fight, no due process? Then, becuse someone thinks it's best that he throws in the towel..he does? If that is the case, Franken is a coward ..to risk losing his seat to a racist repub is plain suicide. Ps who the hell is jillibrand anyway?

[Egnever]

49. Maybe he has better things to do?

The man does not need the money. Maybe being away from your home and your family sucks. Maybe putting up with that is worth it when you can be effective. Maybe with half your caucus speaking against you and calling for your resignation on flimsy evidence he decided screw this it isn't worth the further strain on his family.

Why would he stay in the face of the mob is a better question.

[tenderfoot]

26. I don't agree and find it interesting that no more women have come forward since his resignation

eom

[sfwriter]

32. And the ones that did.:.

They did so at such a regular weekly pace, unlike the masses of people who came out all at once in most other cases. The pace here seemed to be timed to weekly news cycles.

[tenderfoot]

35. I noticed that as well

And knew, once he announced his resignation, that would be the last of them.

Curiouser and curiouser...

[demmiblue]

46. I also finding it interesting that some of the most vocal people calling BS on this...

are women (at least from my anecdotal experience).

[mythology]

48. No more women have come forward against Roy Moore or Donald Trump lately either

I haven't heard any new Cosby accusers for that matter.

This logic that no new accusers must mean all the others are lying is specious at best.

[tenderfoot]

61. Because they all came forward at one time...

never mind that they came forward YEARS ago.

[Trumpocalypse]

30. Thanks for posting.

It is a shame that so many here rather beat their chest in self righteous indignation than realize that there were important political considerations at play here.

[marble falls]

33. I wanted Al Franken to stay, but I was also afraid of the amount of energy wasted arguing about....

it was damaging the party and unity.

[dchill]

114. It still is.

Due process. It's a real thing.

[pangaia]

36. I am not beating my chest. I am not engaging in self-righteous indignation.

And I suggest not accusing others of the same.

I WILL AGREE "that there were important political considerations at play here."

Boy, you're telling me !!

The whole thing was a Democratic fuck up. Big time !

[Trumpocalypse]

127. Never said that YOU were.

But read some of the other replies to the OP.

[flotsam]

91. In America

"important political considerations" do not outrank due process.

[Trumpocalypse]

129. That is just naive.

Due process is a legal consideration, not a political one. They are two different things.

[dansolo]

168. So political considerations are more important than inconvenient truths?

The real truth of this sordid affair is that if there were high profile, demonstrably FALSE accusations of sexual harrassment, then there would be a lot of damage done to the MeToo movement. So instead of having to admit that some accusations may have ulterior motives, they acted as if they had to be true, and any investigation shutdown quickly before it could be proven otherwise.

[Trumpocalypse]

183. Sometimes they are

Not fair but that is the way of the world.

[pangaia]

31. To quote Al Franken, Giant of the Senate... "***"

[Demit]

37. What a nasty piece of writing you've quoted here.

The author decides that it was a "dilemma" that Democrats faced—one option of which was to observe rules of decency, and the other was to

"lower themselves into the GOP latrine, keep Franken on the roster, and spend the next several election cycles smelling a little like shit."

If that's what you wanted people to read & think about, here's what I think: Christina Cauterucci can go to hell.

[Owl]

73. Exactly.

[riverwalker]

38. Total BS

The article assumes the allegations are true. They are not. Tweeden story has fallen apart, anyone with a bit of commen sense and critical thinking can see. The Menz story should have been laughed at, instead a irresponsible reporter MJ Lee of CNN ran it without verifying ANY of it. The others are so insignificant they are ridiculous. Franken was thrown under the bus by gutless leadership, and will NOT be forgiven. I do however have renewed respect for Amy Klobuchar for standing by him and not joining the lynch mob.

[DLevine]

39. Bullshit. nt

[July]

84. Has anyone posted a list of those who pushed Franken out?

I don't remember seeing one, just a number (34, 35, 38, depending on the poster).

[dalton99a]

98. Here:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/full-list-senators-call-for-al-franken-to-resign-282175

A wave of Democratic officials, including Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and more than half of all Democratic senators, called on Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) to resign Wednesday over numerous allegations of sexual misconduct.

Here is the full list:

....

Democratic senators who had not yet called on Franken to resign: Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, Ben Cardin of Maryland, Chris Coons of Delaware, Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada, Tim Kaine of Virginia, Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Bob Menendez of New Jersey, Brian Schatz of Hawaii, Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire, Chris Van Hollen of Maryland and Mark Warner of Virginia.

Coons, Shaheen and Schatz cannot comment due to the pending investigation before the Ethics Committee.

[disndat]

105. Al Franken was gaining the spotlight

with his incisive questioning on different occasions of Forsuch and later, Sessions. He had to be stopped.

[crazycatlady]

119. So you'd vote GOP in 2020 if one of those calling for Franken to resign runs against Trump?

[MoonRiver]

41. Read. Hair still on fire.

I am noticing the growing concern about this issue though.

[WyLoochka]

44. Nonsense opinion piece

Supports a cockamamie theory that the party will look good after it railroads one of its own.

The lesson to learn is that a substantial group of Democratic Senators took a stand against finding truth. They took a stand against justice.

They took the low road, while claiming to be on the high road.

[dalton99a]

54. +1

[lunamagica]

102. Well said.

[revmclaren]

104. +1

[CrispyQ]

47. The moral high ground isn't worth squat when they have their boot on your neck.

We're in the fight for our country & the dems just jettisoned one of our best fighters to the curb. "Oh, but he'll be replaced by a dem," is the argument, "So no loss." I've got news for you. Not all dems are created equal. There are very few tough fighters in the democratic party & if we're going to get our country back, that's what we need.

[TheFrenchRazor]

118. where exactly should dems draw the line then? serious question; obviously if dems decide that all mo

moral standards are expendable in the name of winning, then at a certain point, the democratic party will become literally valueless. i think questions like this get at the very core of a person's and a party's character; do you do the easy thing, or do you do the right thing? clearly if he was innocent, he should have demanded and gotten an investigation, but if he was not, i think the case could certainly be made that he did the right thing by stepping down.

[CrispyQ]

123. We're trying to survive, not win.

The fact that dem leadership doesn't realize this, or thinks it's not the number one priority facing them, is a problem. The GOP controls the federal govt & a majority of the state legislatures & if we don't wrest control back from these extremists, things for women are gonna get a fuck of a lot worse.

[samnsara]

53. we needed to sacrifice our first born because...why?

[dalton99a]

58. To placate black female voters in Alabama - "Either Franken goes or we'll vote for Roy Moore"

[MoonRiver]

70. LOL

[lunamagica]

103. .

[spanone]

55. republican blake farenthold paid out $84,000 of OUR money to his victim and still sits in the House

If anything, Franken should have said he won't run in the future....

IMHO

[ProfessorGAC]

57. Worst.Post.Ever

Total solipsism!

[grantcart]

66. It is encouraging that when slop like this gets posted only a

few will rec it

[democratisphere]

68. I'm catching more than a whiff of an agenda on this one.

[JimGinPA]

60. As Someone Else Here Pointed Out...

As soon as he announced his resignation there were no more "victims" coming forward. As much as I appreciate Dems taking the high ground & holding our own to a higher standard, this was a hit job on Franken, pure and simple.

[Fullduplexxx]

67. Imo should be in that title somewhere

[Gidney N Cloyd]

69. Drivel. The 3rd option to that false dilemma was to take firm action via the ethics investigation.

[Owl]

71. Total BS.

[loyalsister]

72. We should not forget the Bengazi hearings

"Are Democrats hypocritical about sexual misconduct when one of our teammates get caught?" Would have been a incessant question that would have dogged all of our 2018 candidates.

An ethics investigation would have been brutal, and would have dominated the discussion, distracting from the argument that we need more Democrats in office. "Due process" in congressional hearings is not subject to courtroom standards. The hearing would have been hostile and they would have had the opportunity to dredge up any unflattering bits of Franken's history they could find.

[Demit]

90. Love how you put due process in quotes, like it's not really a thing.

Also how you think Democrats should always be so frightened of what Republicans might do that they act defensively, and preemptively. No defending first principles in your book, no sir!

BTW, the nine hours of questioning that Trey Gowdy subjected Hillary Clinton to WERE brutal. And what happened was she showed her mettle by withstanding every minute. She showed courage. My admiration for her shot up that day.

My admiration for the senators in the Al Franken hunting party went down, down, down.

[loyalsister]

92. Due process is not a thing in hostile congressional investigations

Do you seriously believe that because YOUR admiration shot up that was a concensus among all other potential voters? Do you believe that the majority of the public was so convinced that they voted for her because she handled herself well? I think that would have been the case for avid supporters, but not a general phenomenon. You heard courage. Many people I talked with were unimpressed by her defensive tone.

Al had some SNL weekend updates that they could have played out of context over and over again. When there is inevitably damaging content in opposition research, sensible polititians get ahead of it and try to prevent endless smears that distract from the serious issues. Politics is unfair and without rules. People here talk about being frightened as if the public would never fall for the exploitation of historical behaviors interpreted as evidence. It's simply prudent to make efforts to avoid the smears rather than have to spend time addressing them.

[Demit]

122. In your playbook, Clinton would have folded b/c of "damaging content."

And yet she didn't. Despite the opposition research on her, despite the endless smears on her, and despite all the unimpressed people you personally talked to—she got almost 3 million more votes than her opponent in a grueling race for president.

Yeah, the Democrats who want to get somewhere should have half her courage.

[loyalsister]

185. "courage" that only impresses loyalists

is not actually courage. It's pandering and pretending the rule of thumb is not going to be relevant. Clinton was not in office and had not declared candidacy. Any risk she took was not one that might lose elections across the country during midterms as essential as this year.

[Turbineguy]

74. Before theft-proof car radios

somebody would break the window or smash the lock doing many hundreds in damage in order to get a radio that he would fence for 10 bucks.

In this case he didn't actually steal the radio or break the glass but just left a note saying he did.

[TheCowsCameHome]

75. Simple: "They go low, we go high"

And we get fucked every single time.

[BannonsLiver]

76. Nonsense

The media will ensure their both parties are the same narrative will continue and ultimately we’ll probably lose the senate seat.

[LWolf]

78. My hair is fine.

I'm neither a Franken fan, defender, nor detractor. I enjoyed him on SNL. I sometimes appreciated, sometimes not, his work in the Senate.

As a 57 yo woman, I am more than aware of the embedded culture of misogyny in the United States. I've lived with it my whole life, including my first decade when I was not yet a woman. Sexual harassment, sexual predators, gender discrimination...it's always been a reality.

I fully support all of my sisters speaking out. Better late than never, that there is finally a light shining on male privilege.

Franken's transgressions are mild, relatively speaking. They are still transgressions. I appreciate him acknowledging that fact, and taking responsibility. That sets him apart from so many others. It leaves, so far, the Democratic Party's integrity on this issue intact, which is vitally important going forward.

I also appreciate the light shining on so many here at DU who mirror the "others" putting partisan support over issues. I'm shocked that so many who seemed to be all about breaking gender barriers in '16 suddenly find themselves defending sexual harassment.

And finally, I hope this movement continues, growing larger and stronger by the day until we reach the critical mass needed to:

1. Hold the sick misogynist in the WH accountable for his sexual transgressions (and his political transgressions, as well);
2. Ensure that ALL women, from all populations in the U.S., are safe from sexual predators and enjoy equal rights and protections in reality as well as in theory

[dansolo]

169. You are describing his "transgrassions"' as if they have been proven to be true

His only proven "transgression" was the picture. He admitted it was wrong, apologized for it, and the apology was accepted by the aggrieved party. Is this not enough? All of the other accusations were flimsy or anonymous. Are you really going to call putting your arm around a woman's waste while taking a picture with her a "transgression"?

[LWolf]

182. I'm not describing his transgressions at all.

If you feel the need to disagree, try offering up something of substance.

At least you agree that the picture was wrong. I believe I said I appreciated his apology, so repeating it to me is redundant and ineffective as a rebuttal.

Is that not enough? I'll repeat myself, since you seem to want to ignore it:

"I'm neither a Franken fan, defender, nor detractor. I enjoyed him on SNL. I sometimes appreciated, sometimes not, his work in the Senate. "

THIS will be "enough:"

"And finally, I hope this movement continues, growing larger and stronger by the day until we reach the critical mass needed to:

1. Hold the sick misogynist in the WH accountable for his sexual transgressions (and his political transgressions, as well);
2. Ensure that ALL women, from all populations in the U.S., are safe from sexual predators and enjoy equal rights and protections in reality as well as in theory "

Franken is a small, small part of what will, someday, finally be "enough."

[janterry]

96. I don't agree with 'long-term' games

This was about a man's career. He wasn't perfect. But our job as women - feminists - and Americans is to build a policy that is fair. Franken got caught up in a rush to judgment. We need to forget about games and instead build policies that make sense for everyone - men and women.

[Vinca]

106. I'm now lighting my hair on fire.

If Franken had been given a fair hearing - as he requested - I would pack his bags for him if found guilty. That didn't happen and while it may give some the impression it cements the Democrats when it comes to respect for women, etc., it also cements their weakness to foes. Look cross-eyed at a Democrat in office, they'll think, and the party will run them out on a rail leaving the field open for a GOP candidate to take the slot. Franken was one of our most popular and most valuable voices in Washington. The charges surrounding him were suspect from the beginning since Roger Stone announced their onset the night before the initial complaint. Who's next? My money is on Sherrod Brown to be next in line. Lots of Ohio Republicans would like the seat.

[Demsrule86]

110. I wouldn't pack his bags...that is up to him and Minnesota unless he broke the law which he did not.

We can't even get rape kits examined, or convictions for rape. I am sure as hell not worried about someone putting their arm around a woman in a photo or a joke during a USO show.

[Demsrule86]

107. This entire argument is bullshit...the GOP and their followers don't care about decency...

I have no idea why you would post this...let it go.

[wasupaloopa]

111. None of this makes any sense because there was no investigation and no hearing or any charges

brought.

If this had happened to any one of us we would have felt mistreated. So stop posting this bull shit already!

[ornotna]

112. Complete bullshit

All this does is enable the rats to do it again. I wonder who the next Democratic target is going to be and will we hand them the rope again.

[dlk]

115. This Post Begins With An Insult. That Tells Us Quite a Bit About The Author and Their Agenda

[alarimer]

120. Notice that the allegations have stopped, though.

And nobody is talking about them, except in a falsely equivalent way by lumping him in with Farenthold, Moore and Weinstein.

(Hint: Franken is NOTHING like those, if they even happened at all).

Purely political move for him to resign. It DOES change the conversation and removes a distraction, which is the only positive. I hope he gets a TV show, where he can call the GOP on their bullshit.

[NanceGreggs]

124. What absolute, unadulterated bullshit.

What we learned from the Franken incident is that many elected Democrats will not stand up for their own, will not pursue any investigation into finding out the truth, and that accusations alone – no matter how flimsy, how unsupported by facts, and how downright ludicrous – are sufficient to oust one of our most respected and revered politicians.

Michelle Obama famously said, ”When they go low, we go high.” What she didn’t say is “When they go low, we roll over and play dead after handing them whatever they want.”

The Republicans wanted Franken out due to his unwavering criticism of the GOP, and his ability to expose their hypocrisy and their lies. Little did we know that certain Democrats would do the Republicans’ dirty work for them – which is exactly what they did.

So now Franken is out, the Republicans are ecstatic, and the Democratic party and the people of Minnesota have lost a great warrior – slain on the battlefield by his own fellow Democrats.

[Cary]

128. Nance, do we need this?

We have more important battles, don't we? Al Franken made his choice. Isn't it over?

I tend to agree with you, but I think we need to use all of our resources against our real enemy.

[NanceGreggs]

136. Yes, Cary, we DO need this.

For many years, we have ridiculed Republican voters for falling into lockstep behind their elected representatives, without regard to how damaging those representatives are to their own constituencies and the nation as a whole. I don’t want to see Democrats doing the same.

When elected Dems turn on their own and facilitate the ousting of a popular, well-respected colleague based on unproven accusations that Republicans have conjured-up out of thin air, it’s time to speak up.

There isn’t a single thing that Democrats stand for that can’t be characterized by someone as “not an important battle we should be fighting”. I think that when elected Democrats deem it “unimportant” to do the GOP’s bidding – which is what they did when they ousted Franken – it’s time to speak up in no uncertain terms. It IS an important battle, and the reasons why are obvious.

The GOP wanted Franken out – and many Democrats were more than willing to do the GOP’s dirty work for them. THAT is now a matter of record. The Republicans didn’t even have to make an issue of it – the Dems just went ahead and said, “You want him gone? Don’t sweat it – we’ll get rid of him for you.”

”I think we need to use all of our resources against our real enemy.” I think we also need to know who the enemies are within our own ranks.

”Al Franken made his choice.” Yeah, a “choice” – because who wouldn’t choose to keep working with the very people who stabbed you in the back? Would you?

I am a NY state voter. When Gillibrand and Schumer come calling for my usual donation to their campaigns, I’ll be telling them to get the money from their Republican friends – the ones they couldn’t wait to please.

[dalton99a]

173. +1. One cannot pretend nothing happened.

[flotsam]

152. If friendly fire kills you

it was YOUR enemy...And the Kirsten Komandos knew exactly where they were aiming.

[Cary]

153. I am very much alive, thank you

[flotsam]

154. And one of our finest Senators

is not (politically).

[Cary]

155. Al Franken decided to resign

He made a statement. His statement was that our work is more important than him remaining in office. I respect his decision.

Some battles are lost. We have many more battles ahead. Move on.

[flotsam]

156. Not while any of the backstabbers hold office!

We need democrats with a backbone, not quislings and opportunists. If either of my senators are primaried (Hassan and Shaheen) their opponent has a pretty good chance of my support. I'll make a statement too-a d by your name will get my vote in the election but if you are primaried there is a reason and I'm very likely to support that.

But y'all just move on without me. And maybe without the support of most posters on DU...

[Cary]

157. You don't get it

I'm not in the market for any new ones.

You're on your own.

[flotsam]

160. Yeah-you go ahead and believe that

This is one of a series of posts on this subject with common markers-long debating posts it the 150-200+ range, several thousand views and less than 20 recs....and if you check the recs-and I do-it's just a radical cadre that supports the actions against Franken. Bitch and moan as you like the behavior was both immoral and cowardly and any fair observer knows it.

[Cary]

162. Sorry, but I have no obligation to toe your line

Did I ask for your approval? Why no, I didn't. So why do you deflect? That is supposed to do what?

Who do you think you're fooling?

I told you I am not buying into your negativity. I meant it. No means no.

[flotsam]

164. I merely stated my opinion

in response to your posts and now you sign off with "No means No" as if I were some abuser. Y'all can dance fancy but in the end your argument seems to be I'm pissed, so I'll claim to be a victim. Which is the exact scam they ran on Franken. NOW we're through.

[lunamagica]

158. I agree with Nance, we DO need this

[Cary]

159. I think many "conservatives" agree

We ought to splinter into a thousand different parts. We should be demoralized.

In the meantime 95% of Republicans support #fakepresident.

[lunamagica]

161. Gillibrand and her followers started this. Don't blame anyone else

[Cary]

163. "Started this"

My only "this" is defeating Republicans. I have no interest in your issues.

[lunamagica]

165. Really? Losing a real Democratic warrior in the senate will not help us defeat Republicans

it only weaken us.

And if you have no interest on "my issues" why did you reply?

[kcr]

187. The stick our heads in the sand strategy. That always works! n/t

[wroberts189]

143. +1

[still_one]

131. He announced his plan to resign after prominent Democrats refused to let him defend himself, through

an ethics investigation, rather then let those Democrats look like the fools they were for jumping the gun

It is also somewhat curious that no other allegations of improper touching have come out against Al Franken since his resignation.

The NY Times, along with other news outlets have been reporting that Lisa Bloom was paid by "Clinton supporters" 700K to help Trump accusers.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1950664

Trump, the republicans, and some outlets have been trying to paint the picture that Mueller's integrity have been compromised because there are allegedly people in the FBI who have been accused of having bias against trump because of his firing of Comey, and they were involved in Mueller's investigation

I guess the only solution, based on the Al Franken example would be for Mueller to end the investigation of trump, since obviously he can't be fair, based on these accusers that Mueller has conflict of interest.

[nclib]

134. What happens when anonymous women come forward with allegations against other Democrats?

Especially close to election time. Are they going to get thrown under the bus too?

[IluvPitties]

135. I respectfully disagree.

Franken is human and has made mistakes, but in his case his contributions to society outweigh his transgressions.

[RealityChik]

138. I STILL adamantly disagree but...

Too much pain to talk about it anymore. We are at the point where we will never be able to accept the other point of view, and because of that, the Repubs got another round of divisiveness that they wanted from the Dems.

We can't keep beating up each others' points of view because we just can't give Repubs that victory of satisfaction they crave. So my DU brothers and sisters, we HAVE to give it a rest and move on to other issues, especially since Senator Franken has made it clear he won't change his mind about staying.

Let's end this, ok?

[JHB]

139. I note that this article is dated Dec. 7, nearly a month ago...

...and that it doesn't even attempt to address the strong indications of Conservative activist ratfucking for the initial claim, the frankly ridiculous nature of the final claim which triggered the calls for resignation (hand on her waist?), and the ambiguity of the other claims.

So why post it now, when it is clearly deficient in precisely the areas which need to be addressed in order to change anyone's mind on the subject?

[flamingdem]

140. Good point. And this issue still has not be fully addressed by leadership

It's a point of shame in our party. We let one of our best get ratfucked. The herd was lead by people we can no longer trust. They lack judgement, and worst of all they lack a sense of strategy and are looking out for themselves, not us.

[CentralMass]

146. Kirsten Gillibrand asked if her good friends husband Anthony Weiner

Last edited Tue Jan 2, 2018, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

should stay in the New York City mayoral race.

http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/kirsten-gillibrand-anthony-weiner_n_3674118

https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2013/05/source-anthony-weiner-hires-a-former-obama-and-gillibrand-aide-000000
"According to a source, Anthony Weiner has hired a former Obama campaign aide and adviser to Senator Kirsten Gillibrand to be the political director of his soon-to-be-announced mayoral campaign."

[OnDoutside]

167. That has hypocrisy written all over her face.

[dalton99a]

171. Priceless

[pintobean]

174. She never said Weiner was her good friend

Nor was that in any of the questions. Gotta wonder why you felt the need to insert that.

She said Huma was her good friend. That explains why she dodged the Weiner questions.

[CentralMass]

180. Thank you for pointing out that good friend comment. I corrected it.

[CentralMass]

188. Hypocrisy and political opportunism are terms that come to mind.

[IluvPitties]

175. Here we see what she is all about.

[demmiblue]

176. Interesting. n/t

[R B Garr]

181. Wow. What hypocrisy. MINNESOTA voters decided who they wanted in

Al Franken! But now she's concerned about New York voters deciding who they want as mayor. Why can't Minnesota voters get to decide for themselves. Overturning an election is seriously, seriously nasty. This is unreal.

[politicaljunkie41910]

150. Sorry but it's not as black and white as you have portrayed it to be.

The dilemma boiled down to this: Democrats could either put themselves at a potential political disadvantage by observing rules of decency Republicans have entirely abandoned, or they could lower themselves into the GOP latrine, keep Franken on the roster, and spend the next several election cycles smelling a little like shit. Democrats seemed content to hold their nose and bear with Franken through the first half-dozen accusations. But when a seventh accuser came forward this week, at least 17 Democratic senators—mostly women—publicly urged Franken to step down, leaving him little choice.

Sorry but it's not as black and white as that. He could have been given the ethics hearing that he requested and after having been given his chance/right to respond to his accusers, a decision could have been reached based on members of the ethic committee deciding whether he was more likely than not, guilty of the charges, and if so, what the appropriate remedy should have been. The way things went down, he had no opportunity to confront his accusers and respond to their accusations.

The GOP doesn't give a shit about the truth, as we've seen demonstrated in the Congressional hearings about whether or not the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians. They only care about winning, and for some reason, they're winning. Dems will never be back in leadership unless they learn how to fight fire with fire. Our children are not watching this madness, so don't worry about what they would think. If Franken was guilty, he would have been gone after his ethic hearing. Instead, we will never know whether he was guilty, but what we do know is that he was forced out, by his 'peers', while never having had a chance to defend himself.

[rainin]

151. I am angry and I will never be "over it".

Today, I watched an interview on Democracy Now about Trump's disregard for the constitution since day one when he refused to divest from his businesses. This is an impeachable offense, but democrats are silent. Where is the "difference" between Democrats and Republicans now? Why aren't we fighting for the constitution rather than being shrewd politicians weighing our political advantage? Do we believe in the constitution or not?

Oh how holier than thou we acted when we thought we could score political points by taking out Franken. It was black and white, we said. Democrats are different, we said.

Really?

I am ANGRY!!!!!

[GaryCnf]

170. Let's make one thing clear

For a Republican to suffer a "debilitating loss" they have to be a pedophile. The ONLY party that suffers a "debilitating loss" for rejecting/ejecting men who "disrespect women" or who put their hand on someone's posterior during a photo shot taken in a public place is US because no Republican woman gives a FRA about that stuff and not even close to a majority of Democrats think it merits what happened to Franken. We are watching our party being taken down by a minority of its members who are so convinced of their insurmountable victimhood by the last by the last election that they are ready to purge anyone who stands in the way of their unrealized goal.

[bitterross]

177. That article is totally off the mark. Lack of williness to fight for truth took down Franken

The Franken accusations were the accusations that were made up by people conspiring to take him down. I don't believe anonymous accusers and their stories should have ever been reported.

The only reason the Dems had to have him resign is because they gave weight to the BS claims of people who actually were working just to bring him down. If they had taken a bit longer view and looked at the lack of substance in the claims none of them hold water the way the claims about Moore and Trump do.

There is no reason Franken should have been sacrificed so our party could continue to claim the high ground and morals. It was unnecessary. All we had to do is expose the lies. But no, we give up and shoot our own rather than fight. That is our problem.

[Tatiana]

192. Franken's resignation was part of the efforts to stop the investigation into Trump's treason.

We removed one of our strongest and most effective Democratic leaders.

[VOX]

193. Goddamned FALSE EQUIVALENCY. Ask Roger Fucking Stone about his "political hit job."

Stone knew about what was coming for Franken the DAY BEFORE. Is Stone a fucking prophet?

And Franken's "misdeeds" (whatever they're supposed to be, because all we have to go on is the word of right-wing stooges) are nowhere near what the insane, vindictive, petty Asshole-in-Chief has gotten away with -- in private life AND public.

That's why any talk about a "political disadvantage by observing rules of decency Republicans have entirely abandoned" is a fucking false equivalency because there is NO equivalency. But keep going there if you pleased with what we've gotten out of Trump so far, and want some more. In this battle, the "high road" leads to a fatal cliff-edge.

Sorry for all the cussing, but goddamn, we lost one of our best fighters. Want to win? Then fucking tear a page out of the Republican playbook and stick up for fellow Democrats if they've taken partisan rockets from the opposition. Remember the 2014 midterms, when the Senate and Congressional Democrats "ran away" from their president? The result of that brilliant strategy? Republican rule in all three branches of government, plus lifetime judicial appointments for as long as the Trumptanic can stay afloat. But hot damn, we've got purity on our side!

We're in a fight to save democracy itself, and lay claim to *genuine reality*, not some fascist fever-dream that's wormed its way out of the insane minds of the absolute freaks who are tearing up the White House.