So if T and company didn't want to win as Wolff's book says, why collude with Russia?

[Amaryllis]

What do you guys think? Trevor Noah brought this up. Wolff's book says he and those around him expected to lose.

The GOP hierarchy had good reason to collude, because they wanted to win at any cost, but why would Trump and co-conspirators collude if they truly did not want to win? Does this cast more shade on the GOP?

I have not consumed any news for 24 hours (needed a breather), so who knows what additional news could have transpired in that time. Have I missed anything pertinent to my question?

Edited to add after reading replies below:
Of course; kompromat. If he didn't want to win but colluded anyway, then this certainly strengthens the kompromat argurement, does it not?

[elleng]

1. $$$$$

and power, what else is there?

[struggle4progress]

31. +

[rzemanfl]

2. Did he run like he wanted to win? I don't think so. I think the Russians have

compromat on Drumpf or own him financially or both.

[Amaryllis]

6. Oh, Duh. I forgot that part.

[Sneederbunk]

3. Trump owes Russia much.

[pnwest]

4. Because pootie wanted to weaken Hillary's presidency as much as possible...

[MANative]

17. This. They would have made it impossible for her to govern. She'd have been paralyzed. Nt

[Takket]

5. they colluded because they were given the opportunity to collude

drumpf was running a dead end campaign destined for a humiliating defeat until his old friend putin came a calling with a devil's bargain. putin played his ego like a fiddle offering a chance to win. putin was in this because he hated hillary.

drumpf not wanting to win is nonsense. he thinks himself nothing less than a god adored by his worshipers. if he didn't want to win he wouldn't have run. he already had enough money to do whatever he wanted with his life, and president is what he wanted.

[Roland99]

7. He needed financing and support to build a new tRump Tower in russia

Remember, this whole investigation was spurred by Papadopoulos drunkenly talking about Jared, aka Moe Ron, Kushner having real estate/money issues

[JonLP24]

11. I thought he drunkenly said the Russians have dirt on Hillary Clinton

Which is why Australia relayed it when DNC emails were being leaked.

[Roland99]

15. Thats right. But I could swear a read an article that jared was discussed too

[leanforward]

27. Follow the money

[Irish_Dem]

8. It was a Hail Mary pass and he owed it to Putin to try.

Trump did not want the job.

[safeinOhio]

9. Russia has bought DC, I mean

Moscow on the Potomac..

[JonLP24]

10. I have doubts about this because they wanted dirt on Hillary Clinton

Did frequent campaign stops I just don't buy it. Interest in dirt on Clinton indicates they did want to win.

[loyalsister]

12. I think Trump would be much more satisfied with HRC as president

He could trash her nonstop on fox and take pleasure in an investigation of the winner of an election that had been tampered with.

[lindysalsagal]

13. Just being the candidate put 45 on the same level as Obama. Statesman.

He would have enjoyed the status without the responsibilities or restraints.

[captain queeg]

14. Because its all Trump and company know;

Cheat, lie, make fun of others ...it’s in their blood. Maybe he didn’t think he’d win but if he could keep the TV cameras on him and allow him to say outrageous thing sure he collude.

[HopeAgain]

16. Trumps ego wanted to win, but he never wanted to govern.

I think his narcissism was in full-on want the fame and power while he had no interest in doing the work. It may have dawned on him briefly on election night that he would be doing a lot of work on things he knew nothing about.

[triron]

19. This sounds right to me (more or less anyway)

[leanforward]

18. All of the above.

pRezident dRumpf has been heavily invested in by the parusky's. They support his business model. Likewise, I've read here and there (connecting the dots) significant contributions by russian oligarchs into various campaigns across the US.

Finally, the supplemental behind scenes (initially) hacking and misinformation.

[moondust]

20. Maybe they believed

that they had such a slim chance of winning that Russia could help them avoid being totally humiliated--something Drumpf could never live with.

Fear of humiliation.



(I wouldn't waste too much time trying to understand or apply simple logic to the motivations of the Drumpf family.)

[mercuryblues]

21. Of course he wanted to win

Not to serve the country, but to rip us off. It is the largest grift in history. He wanted to win because he owed the Russians a shit load of money. The deal was they help him win and he will lift the sanctions and his debt is paid.

He is running the country like he does his business. Tell someone you want XYZ done, get it done and don't bother me with details. He pits everyone against each other and only the worst survive. You can't run a business that way and you certainly can't run a country that way.

[Hekate]

22. M O N E Y. Did you ever see The Producers? They set out to produce a flop...

All they wanted was the backers' money.

[JI7]

23. They still wanted to destroy Clinton

And act like she won unfairly and hurt her presidency.

Trump was not going to concede

[underpants]

25. Right, Putin just wanted her weakened

Trump and Jared (especially) need Russian financing so they went along with it.

[uponit7771]

35. +1

[RoadRunner]

24. Don Jr wanted to prove to daddy that he's a player

I just finished the Kindle version and that what Wolff seems to think. Don Jr wanted to impress daddy. Also, we still don’t know the full story of who was involved in helping Russia meddle in the election, could be the work of outside forces like the Mercers.

[Kaleva]

26. They wanted to build a force to wreak Hillary's presidency.

Trump and Co. would have whipped up the deplorables into a frenzy using charges of election fraud. Remember how Trump kept talking about the election being stolen?

Trump would have made a lot of money riding 'the election was stolen' horse and the Repubs in Congress, pushed by Trump's fanatic base, would have torpedoed anything Hillary would have tried to accomplish.

Trump and his family make money. The Russians box in Hillary and thus Trump's debt to his Russian money men, controlled by Putin, is repaid.

[aikoaiko]

28. The collusion created chaos and Trump loves chaos.

Plus I think they liked the drama of a horse race.

[underpants]

29. The NY Mag excerpt title "Trump Did Not Want To Win" was a perfect draw for eyes

It brought in readers (I saw it and posted it here immediately) and a lot was provided. This sparked lots of interest and reposts across the internet. It was everywhere on TV except Fox. Suddenly interest/demand was through the roof. The publishers had it ready to go and released it within 48 hours.



Perfect marketing. Perfect.

Do I think he really didn't WANT to win? No he claims victory when he files for bankruptcy. I don't think most of his campaign thought there was a shot in hell regardless of Jared supposedly calling it. That's pure self promotion BS. Trump himself doesn't have a clue anyway.

[juxtaposed]

30. he didn't have a choice

[Bleacher Creature]

32. What he wanted didn't matter, which is why the Steele Dossier is so important.

Russia wanted him to win, or at least to weaken Hillary in the process, which is what matters.

I also only partially buy the "he didn't want to win" stuff in that I think it's a bit more nuanced. I do believe that he got in the race primarily to enhance his business, and possibly to use it as a jumping off point to start his own media channel. Ego was the other big part of it. But when the race got going and he saw the insults headed his way, his fragile ego wouldn't let him do anything short of fight back 100% and do everything he could to win.

[mythology]

33. Didn't expect to win is very different from didn't want to win.

Wanting something that you think you can't have often leads people to making poor decisions. For example, look at somebody like Barry Bonds or Lance Armstrong. They were both good, even great, but because they wanted desperately to win, they cheated. Especially with somebody who is egotistical enough they think they "deserve" to win. Trump might not have the typical drive of a high achiever (to be charitable), but he has the ego thing down. I would argue that thinking you won't win, but deserve to win would be a powerful motivator to do anything. Desperate people do desperate things.

[uponit7771]

34. Russia conspiracy is only PART of the story of why Clinton lost Comey was number one factor Russia

... targeting was number 2 voter suppression number 3.

Without the other helping factors Red Don doesn't think he wins at all, Comey sealed the deal.

Like everyone else he thought an overwhelming Clinton vote would take the night

Doesn't mean they didn't conspire with Russia to get dirt on Clinton

[stevenleser]

36. Not expecting to win and not wanting to win are two different things

I haven’t read the book so I don’t know exactly how that part is covered but you can want to win without expecting to win. In fact that goes a long way to explaining the collusion with Russia. They wanted to win but knew they couldn’t win without cheating.

Trump also had a plan for if he lost. He was going to turn the exposure of the campaign into more money for his shows and schemes. He thus would “win” either way.

[Spider Jerusalem]

37. Trump has a creepy man-crush on Putin that he hopes will blossom into bromance?

Also a lot of his foreign ventures etc are underwritten by highly dodgy financing involving money from Russian oligarchs with Kremlin connections which means in a very real sense he's indebted to Putin albeit indirectly. So it's not like he's going to say "no".