Gillibrand was on "The View" and Joy Behar asked her why she forced out Al Franken

[brush]

She had the nerve to say there were EIGHT credible accusations against him.

What bullshit.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/joy-behar-kirsten-gillibrand-al-franken_us_5a6f7f4de4b01fbbefb4dfa3?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

[Demsrule86]

1. Seriously, let it go...have your heard the news today?

[brush]

2. I have, and this happened today. Apparently she's got her story and is sticking to it.

Just remember come campaign season.

[brooklynite]

111. So, you'd prefer to have another Republican in the Senate?

Because the Dentist "running" for the nomination in the Democratic Primary will have no traction at all.

[Demsrule86]

148. We would need to gift wrap the seat for the GOP if he wins a primary...and for those who say

New York doesn't elect Republicans...I have one word...D'Amato.

[quartz007]

176. the dentist will get plenty traction in MN

unless he has molested women in the past/present.

[brooklynite]

184. We're talking about NY.

[Demsrule86]

112. Honestly, I fight the fights I can win...I was adamant that Franken should not resign. I

was white hot angry at Gillibrand...but no sitting Democratic Senator should be primaried period...and that should be New Yorker's decision in anycase. Right now we have a president who is dismantling the justice system and the rule of law...doing things Nixon only dreamed of...and that is way more important than a bit of pout about Franken. We are fighting for our lives and you all want to worry about stuff that we can't change. It is a waste of time and effort.

[pandr32]

128. I completely agree with you

[Demsrule86]

147. Thank you kindly...we should be increasing Democratic Senators...not getting rid of any...and unless

you live in New York...none of your business.

[Demsrule86]

113. I don't care about that ...what would you expect? I am concerned with the news out of justice

which in my view is way more important...I wouldn't waste time and energy in persecuting an incumbent Democrat Senator for actions that I don't agree with in the age of Trump. We have bigger fish to fry.

[sfwriter]

5. What news has you spooked?

I'm honestly curious.

[Demsrule86]

110. The news about the Justice Department and the FBI...pugs are trying to destroy the

rule of law to save Trump...the sniveling lowlife of a president.

[sfwriter]

144. That just hasn't bothered me.

McCabe is still getting his retirement and seems to have pulled one over Republican eyes with this surprise stepping down. That let Wray put a Mueller ally in as Deputy Director WITHOUT Republican interference.

...and the memo? That's a product of desperation, authored in haste, negligent of the facts and being revealed without context. It will be a bomb in their lap.

Just my take.

[Demsrule86]

146. We it is bothering me...and I believe it may lead to firing Rod Rosenstein...and next Mueller.

This is way more important than the Franken thing...and what we need to do is take the House and Senate...or at least one or the other. The Franken thing is over.

[Eliot Rosewater]

151. Of course it bothers you, and me. But...

cant say more

[enough]

7. What news?

She did something nice so that means what she did to Franken is okay now?

[Demsrule86]

109. Please. I was as upset as anyone about Franken...However, we have pugs trying to destroy the justice

system...way more important...honestly I am beginning to think if we wish to save our Republican we need the House and the Senate...Franken is gone. Let's move on. I won't vote for her for president. However, I don't think she should be primaried and unless you live in New York, it is none of your business.

[hurple]

59. NO

[Demsrule86]

108. Ah, thanks for sharing.

[wasupaloopa]

68. What is with all the let it go and move on folks.

You let it go if you want. Don't tell the rest of us what to do.

I want Gillibrand out!

[happy feet]

106. Me too.

I won't forget her ousting of the honorable Franken based on right wing hit job.

[Demsrule86]

107. You want a sitting Democratic Senator out in a time when we have nothing ...no power

not a damn thing. You do realize, the GOP has played you?

[Eliot Rosewater]

152. Yeah, we are being played for sure. I would suggest to them to ask FRANKEN

what he would have them do, but they wont ask him, or care.

[Demsrule86]

156. Nope...it is merely a way to attack and divide Democrats. You would think after 16, they would

figure out what is going on.

[Demsrule86]

149. Do you live in New York...if so don't vote for her in a primary...but if you get a GOP will you be

happier? If you don't live in New York ...then you should mind your business. I don't want her out and I want lots of new Dem Senator 'friends' for her in 18 and in 20.

[Sailor65x1]

158. Isn't it funny

How everyone thought only Franken's voters should decide whether he was out but everyone can decide for NY?

[Demsrule86]

164. That is a very good point. I agree. I am sick of the this nonsense.

[suegeo]

166. Not funny at all...

As a minnesotan myself, I never got to decide, after members of my own party railroaded out my senator. The guy I voted for twice. I got no say. My vote was stolen from me. I doubt they even did BASIC background checks on anybody. A more thorough investigation would have unearthed the fu*king of the rats.

I won't forget it. Not after the recount against that Douche bag Norm Coleman.

I have no love for the junior senator from new york.

[PatSeg]

168. I am sure

that I'm not alone in saying, that I am capable of more than one outrage at a time. In fact since Trump became president, I find I can juggle untold numbers of dissent and anger on a daily basis.

Though the Al Franken resignation will not always be my number one issue, I will not get over it or forget. Meanwhile, the man deserves a public apology from quite a few people. Gillibrand would be on the top of that list.

[stonecutter357]

185. Seriously you let it go !

[sfwriter]

3. Eight my butt...

They would have been more credible if they had been verified by, I don't know, an investigation, which Franken asked for.

[BigmanPigman]

8. DITTO!

[mythology]

35. The Senate ethics investigations are a joke

And the accusations were verified by reporters. Franken himself apologized for his actions. Not one of these guys with multiple accusers has turned out to be innocent. There's no reason to believe Franken wasn't guilty.

[Bluepinky]

61. No, Franken actually didnt admit to harassment.

I don’t think any of the accusations were deemed credible, whether verified by a reporter or not. Franken said about one accusation that he didn’t remember it the way the accuser did. And in his apology, he apologized that he may have made someone feel uncomfortable (I think it was the woman who complained that Franken’s hand on her waist during a photo shoot made her self-conscious because she had gained weight). He denied the accusation by the worker/intern who said Franken tried to kiss her and said he told her “It’s my right” when she prevented it.

Franken was a set up, they wanted him out. Isn’t it strange how, after he was forced to leave, not a single woman has come forward to complain about him?

You shouldn’t believe everything you read.

[Canoe52]

88. +1 nt

[pangaia]

89. Thank you !!!

[ProfessorGAC]

115. Given This Post. . .

. . .you have an appropriate username.

[democratisphere]

4. What goes around comes around.

THIS is the new normal in Washington DC.

[UTUSN]

6. She also said he was a friend, she loved him, no excuse for loved friends

[jalan48]

9. I wish we had Al in the Senate right now. He would be speaking out-any word from his replacement?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Here's a statement from his replacement, Tina Smith:

"Russia is a hostile foreign government that interfered in the 2016 presidential election with the goal of undermining our democracy. No serious person disputes that fact," Smith said in a statement provided by her office. "On top of that, members of the Trump campaign and members of the Trump administration knew about Russia's meddling and welcomed offers of assistance.

"The report that President Trump sought to fire Robert Mueller—the man leading the Trump-Russia investigation—is profoundly disturbing, to say the least," Smith's statement continued. "I plan to support measures that would help protect this investigation from further political interference."

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/4394499-sen-tina-smith-report-trump-tried-fire-mueller-profoundly-disturbing

[jalan48]

13. Thanks-looks like it's from the local paper. I don't think she quite has the gravitas of Franken yet

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. She's been on the job less than a month.

Franken was pretty quiet at first, too. It takes people awhile to find their voices, I think.

[jalan48]

15. That's the problem-we are a critical time and we lost one of our strongest voices.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

17. I'm a Minnesota resident and I've met Al Franken.

You don't have to convince me; I'm still furious. I'm just hoping Smith can hold her own - I'm sure she'll try.

[jalan48]

21. I'm sure she will be able to down the road. It's like losing one of the best players on your team.

The replacement may be good, but right now we need our first string.

[Kirk Lover]

33. Yes and they have to get to know people. You don't go in when you're new and

shake shit up. Unless you're the new boss that is.

[LakeArenal]

26. I'm not that angry at Tina

Someone had to replace Al. But the rest... including the governor of MN.... Grrrrrr.

[dflprincess]

16. Not much. Her main goal is to get reelected in November.

I'm afraid we have another Amy Klobuchar. Better than a Republican but someone who will avoid taking a public stand on anything that hints at controversy.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. I don't know much about her; I hope she'll grow a good spine.

Even Klobuchar seems to be a little spinier lately, which is an improvement.

[Zoonart]

132. She is my Senator and she is a straight up

Republicrat! A substantial portion of her district is deep red. Almost everything west of the Hudson River .

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

143. This is Minnesota's Tina Smith.

Last edited Tue Jan 30, 2018, 03:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Every place in Minnesota is west of the Hudson River.

[Turbineguy]

12. Self destruction.

What other reason beside helping the republican party?

[dflprincess]

18. I wonder if she even believes what she's saying

and if she's figured out that this move will not help her in 2020.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

22. I doubt very much that she'll be the nominee, or that she would have been

even if she hadn't thrown Franken under her campaign bus.

[dflprincess]

25. But I think she thought she had a shot at it (how many politicians fool themselves about that?)

and going after Al, who she may have seen as competition,would be a good move. She probably didn't expect so much push back from it.

[karynnj]

126. I doubt she saw Franken as competition. Only on the left blogosphere was he considered a contender

What MIGHT have been the case was that an issue that she has long quietly worked on, sexual harassment , suddenly became a major hashtag issue. While it might be that Franken's liability on this issue was mostly that he came out of stand up comedy, which in at least the last 2 decades has oven resorted to humor more appropriate for 13 year old boys.

The photo, even though it is clear that no touching was involved, of him leering at and acting as though he were assaulting a sleeping woman is terrible optics. The woman, who is a right wing radio person, claims she was asleep and unaware. It should be noted that while this photo was play acting, the President's access Hollywood tape speaks of what he thinks he can do -- and their are credible accusations that he did inappropriate things.

Both on the questions about Bill Clinton and the Franken questions, she was being consistent with what she called for in legislation. While some argue that she intends to use her prominence on this issue to stand out for 2020. In fact before this story, other than Warren, she was the woman most mentioned as a possibility. Speaking truth to power even to powerful people in our party - which is the best way fighting on this issue can be characterized - is NOT a likely way to get a nomination 2 to 3 years later. With the Franken and Clinton comments, she will have alienated two large (probably overlapping) blocks of the party.

This seems much more likely to be something she felt that she morally had to do to have integrity on this issue.

[dflprincess]

163. If she were consistent she would have gone after Claire McCaskill when McCaskill helped

blocked her legislation that would have done something about sexual assault in the military (a bill Franken strongly supported).

McCaskill did more to harm women that Franken ever did.

[karynnj]

165. McCaskill had a competing proposal.

That is what legislators do.

[CentralMass]

19. I'm glad that I missed it.

[LakeArenal]

23. I had to turn her off...

Credible accusations my ass.

She acted without due process on flimsy evidence. That's it.

I got a form letter from Tammy Baldwin patting herself on the back for it as well.

But Gilli this morning was so hypocritical and self-serving I almost thought she was one of McCain's friends that the View loves having on the show.

If she thinks she has made a good move for her political future, she is going to find not only Republicans will bring it up every chance they have, many of us will be questioning her on it as well.

Personally, I am happy to see so many here not ready to sweep it under the rug.

I am still angry.

[Kirk Lover]

34. Even if she thinks the women or some of them weren't credible do you think she can really come

out and say that?

[LakeArenal]

124. No she won't because she's duplicitous......

What she should have said is there is a question of ethics here... Let's have the investigation Al Franken requested.

Edited to add: If she did think some weren't credible then she's just a downright liar.

[Rene]

71. Totally agree

[IluvPitties]

24. She wants to be the 2020 nominee and took out one of the top candidates.

[Glamrock]

27. Ding ding ding!

We have a winnah!

[mariesa]

63. Now that's just ridiculous

Neither Franken nor Gillibrand were planning 2020 runs.

[BootinUp]

28. She's a real piece of work. nt

[lunasun]

29. Credible as in panel investigation ? Or she believed it so must be truth?

[marble falls]

114. That would be my first question and the second would be what does she know that absolutely ....

no-one else knows.

[bathroommonkey76]

38. You aren't the only one who would be banned on here

I will never support this woman!

Don't come at me with "But what if she is the nominee!?"- There's no way in hell she will be the Dem nominee in 2020. Gillibrand is toxic for the party. She'll see once she gets 1% in the primaries.

[mariesa]

64. "Goody" Gillibrand?

Taking a stand against prevalent harassment makes her "Goody".

Well then count me as "goody" too. Why should sexual harassment continued to be ignored? Christ, the American public elected a god damned pig.

When do we say, enough?

[mac56]

98. Okay, Goody.

[MyOwnPeace]

31. She may want..........

to be a candidate for the 2020 nomination.

I will do everything I can to prevent that.

Just that simple.

[RandomAccess]

32. She BEST not run. I thought she was terrible today.

Her defense of her actions was shrill. She knows it doesn't wash. And that excuse about not wanting to sort out the different types of unasked-for touching is just ... frankly, stupid.

[LisaL]

36. Half of those 8 were anonymous.

As far as I am concerned, since we don't even know who these people are, how can we decide if their accusations are credible?

[crazycatlady]

117. So every victim of sexual misconduct must give their name?

Has it ever occurred to you that is setting a dangerous precedent? What if she's afraid to give her name?

There are reasons for not giving your name.

[Zen Democrat]

37. Why was she appointed to that seat and not Caroline Kennedy?

[Blue_true]

39. She saw the evidence, you did not. nt

[LisaL]

40. That's nonsense.

[Blue_true]

42. Not as much as you claiming that a US Senator who was there had less info than you. nt

[LisaL]

44. I am not claiming she has less info than me.

But I sincerely doubt she has more.

[brush]

48. WTH are you talking about? Gillibrand wasn't there when anything happened.

She's going on accusations, half of them anonymous and the other four have been all but discredited.

[Blue_true]

53. Do you understand what evidence means?

She was a Senator who would have had access to facts that none of us have access to. I give her that benefit of doubt.

[brush]

55. I don't. She just said today on "The View" that there were 8 credible accusations.

That's pure bullshit but she's got her story and is sticking to it because to admit any were not credible would be admitting that she rushed to judgment without an investigation.

I explained in other post to you about the lack of credibility to several of the accusers.

[LisaL]

56. What facts do you think she has access to?

There was no investigation of any kind by the senate. She would have the same info the rest of us do, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

[mariesa]

65. Look, I like Al Franken, but that photo on the airplane

was not appropriate. You don't need an investigation to know that the photo was not cool.

[mac56]

99. Airplane?

[brush]

45. Seriously? We all saw the evidence of Tweeden, the first accuser, sexually assaulting...

that guitar player on stage herself.

Is that the kind of evidence you're talking about, or maybe it's the last accuser's so-called accusation when she said Franken assaulted her side love handle when he draped his arm around her posing for a photo that she asked for?

Those two are credible I guess in Gillibrand's opinion .

[Blue_true]

46. There were more than Tweeden.

Two democratic activists and an aide to a member of Congress.

[LisaL]

47. And what are their names? Do tell.

I am just really curious why people claiming to be democrats decided to be anonymous.

[Blue_true]

50. To not get ripped to pieces by zealots that ignore information they don't want to hear. nt

[LisaL]

57. On the contrary, I would have loved to hear what they had to say.

How exactly can I decide if their accusation are credible when we don't even know who half of the accusers are?

[kcr]

159. You mean the ones who ignore the fact those accusations are anonymous?

We have to take Jezebel's word they are who they say they are. A blog. They're the ones that posted that particular anonymous story you're talking about.

[brush]

49. Yeah, the one who said Al groped her on her side, and there was one who said...

he approached her to kiss her saying "It's my right as an entertainer".

Real credible for sure .

[LexVegas]

41. ...

[IluvPitties]

43. Any Democratic Candidate for 2020 is better than Gillibrand

Last edited Tue Jan 30, 2018, 01:49 AM - Edit history (1)

That's my position in regards to our 2020 primaries.

[dchill]

51. Utter.

[GulfCoast66]

52. Yeah, all these offenders are horrible unless it is someone I like

Blame it on a woman when a man is accused by multiple women, does not deny the accusations, apologizes and then resigns.

But of course it is the women’s fault.

I hate left hypocrisy as much as right.

[nadine_mn]

54. She said he had a right to investigation ...but drove him out before he could have

The whole he has a right to a hearing but not my silence comment caused something to snap in my brain today.


She disgusts me

[brush]

96. "He has a right to a hearing but not my silence." BS, you know that a practiced...

applause line that she's perfected but it doesn't mean anything but I kicked him under the bus and out of the way.

[The_Casual_Observer]

58. Sounds like the same sort of reasoning that

Started the Iraq war.
Well meaning shit the pants academic solutions.

[mariesa]

60. Wow. I thought it was bad enough that an asshole like Trump was elected.

Now we have some who believe that sexual harassment is no big deal, and that women should just deal with it and move on?

That opinion is coming from allies of Democrats?

Is this real?

[Bluepinky]

67. Not every uncomfortable touch is sexual harassment.

Sometimes a hand touches a place by accident. If I feel uncomfortable about my weight and someone has his hand on my waist, after I asked to pose for a photo with that person, I can’t blame it on sexual harassment.

Franken isn’t a sexual harasser, it was a setup. Gillibrand was wrong to force him out before an investigation, she should be ashamed of herself.

[mariesa]

73. Oh, c'mon. We all saw the plane photo.

Why is it that Al Franken has handled this with more class than those who belittle the allegations, or who are furious with Kirsten Gillibrand, who has always fought against sexual harassment?

[Bluepinky]

87. The airplane photo was supposed to be a joke.

If you look at the photo, there’s a guy sitting in the chair next to Tweeden. The staged photo was taken years ago, when Franken entertained the troops overseas. He apologized to Tweeden for the photo, and she accepted the apology. By the way, during the tour, there were also some unflattering photos taken of Tweeden sexually harassing a band member and a GI on stage.

[mariesa]

91. The bottom line is that the photo

is not funny, and accepting it as a joke is not helpful.

Al Franken himself understands that. This shouldn't be difficult.

[Bluepinky]

92. Yes, that is why he apologized for the photo.

It was supposed to be funny but it really wasn’t, so he apologized. Why isn’t that enough?

[mariesa]

93. Honestly, it was enough for me, but times have changed.

After 2016 there are millions of ticked off women who have had enough. It's especially clear among the millennials. That are tired of this stuff. They are tired of the sexism, tired of the racism and tired of all of the "isms".

We are going through a culture change in our society. It was bound to happen. Trump just brought in on a lot sooner than we imagined.

[Bluepinky]

100. The person who hasnt paid a price is Trump.

He has been accused by many women of harassment or assault, yet the accusations go nowhere.

[Demit]

105. The apology was enough for Leeann Tweeden too, and she was the offended woman.

How do millennials feel about a woman sexually harassing a man? There's a photo of Leeann Tweeden doing that, from the same USO tour. I haven't seen her offer an apology to the guitarist whose butt she grabbed. Funny, that.

[wasupaloopa]

70. Oh get off your pedestal will you? The you are judge jurry and hangman. We investigate first here

Wow?

[mariesa]

77. Nah. I'm just taking Al Franken's lead.

He's handling it like a person who is willing to sacrifice for positive change.

A true leader. Truly ahead of his time. Much respect to Al Franken.

[wasupaloopa]

83. There is no need to sacrafice anyone. If that's how you want to get change, who's next?

Are you willing to sacrifice your self some time?

[mariesa]

84. I didn't take an idiotic photo on an airplane.

[mvd]

62. I strongly feel Franken should have had the investigation

She acts like all accusations are created equal. They are not. Plus, I strongly doubt Franken is a predator. Those are the kinds of things where an apology should be enough.

[uponit7771]

66. +1

[mariesa]

69. You know, I'm tired of the response being that

we have to "investigate" the women.

Everyone here, if they're being honest, has witnessed or experienced sexual harassment. Everyone. What is wrong with finally saying, "hey, this just ain't right. We need to stop."

[mvd]

72. To me, it is about due process. These claims don't sit right with me

I certainly am not saying sexual harassment isn't a problem.

[mariesa]

74. Senator Franken chose to forgo due process.

Probably partially out of respect for this issue, and partially because "due process" for victims of sexual harassment in Congress has been a big joke.

He's not out there complaining, or doing angry interviews. He's putting this issue above himself. He deserves so much respect for that.

[mvd]

75. He did say he wanted an investigation though

I do agree that he has been classy about the whole thing. We may not agree on everything here, but we can agree on that.

[mariesa]

78. He said he was open to an ethics investigation.

But he never said he wanted to investigate the women's claims, like some here are implying.

[mvd]

79. I personally believe he did want one

The Party came after him quickly. But the way he has handled it is another point in his favor. He seems respectful to women.

[mariesa]

81. Very much so.

History will be very kind to Senator Al Franken.

[tonedevil]

86. Everytime he is mentioned...

it will be prefaced with left the Senate because of sexual harassment accusations. There will be those times where it will be accusations of sexual assult. No kindness will be found.

[mariesa]

90. Well sadly we have learned that too many people fall for fake news.

But I'll be damned if I contribute to it.

No one has accused him of sexual assault. No one.

I'm disappointed that you would even suggest as much. That's how rumors, innuendo, and fake news starts.

[tonedevil]

94. I've already seen...

CNN say he left the Senate due to accusations of sexual harassment. That doesn't seem a legitimate assesment of the accusations as I heard them. On the Fox News chat shows I've seen them say he admitted to harassment and use assult interchangeably.

[mariesa]

95. Fox news is the king of fake news

They are the original fake news.

Nothing that they report should be taken seriously or as factual news.

[tonedevil]

135. Should and do...

are two different things and the should is getting short shrift in this particular case. It still gives lie to your fanciful statement that Senator Franken will be remembered kindly.

[tonedevil]

145. For your illumination...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210149936 If you read the third paragraph you will notice that Slate writer Christina Cauterucci writes about Senator Franken and the assault allegations against him. Go ahead and tell us again how kindly history is going to remember Senator Franken.

[tonedevil]

154. Did you miss this sentence?

This entry in the ongoing #MeToo saga may frustrate progressives, as did the assault allegations against former Minnesota senator Al Franken, for their illumination of the higher standards for left-leaning politicians.
The portion I highlighted in bold where the author is saying that assault allegations were made against Senator Franken is what I was trying to point out. That isn't from Fox News it is from the keyboard of Christina Cauterucci who is a Slate columnist.

[kcr]

160. She's terrible.

Slate seems to be making an effort to shape up after trying to compete with Gawker and Huffpo, but they need to get rid of her.

[quartz007]

177. don't need accusations when

there are pictures posted on internet.

[steve2470]

134. totally agree

If it came out that Franken was this monster (which I strongly strongly doubt), ok fair enough, he's gone. Otherwise, we get to see what's true and what's BS.

[Tipperary]

76. I am not a fan. Nor will I ever be.

[mariesa]

80. That's good.

Nobody should ever be a fan of politicians. They are our representatives, our voice, not our deities.

[Tipperary]

116. I have never been a fan, in the context you took my comment, of any politician.

So I shall rephrase. I do not support nor respect her. I think she threw Franken under the bus for her own motives, which were not honorable imo.

[quickesst]

82. Gillibrand and her posse...

...... did the RepUGLYicans a huge favor. Probably sat around the club having drinks, smoking cigars, and a good laugh.

[mariesa]

85. Gillibrand and her posse

bwahahahahahahahahaha.

That's funny, even if it wasn't intentional.

[quickesst]

120. All right all right

[Trumpocalypse]

103. You mean this posse?

[quickesst]

118. yep

I should note that some of these people have expressed regret for their hasty decision. Let it also be noted that if these Democrats are up for re-election in 2018, and if a better candidate does not emerge, then I hope they all win. It doesn't stop me from being disappointed for, in my opinion, a bad decision.

[Trumpocalypse]

119. When you put one Senator over all the others

then you are engaging in the cult of personality. We should be better than that.

[quickesst]

121. They are not clones....

... who look, speak, act, and think alike. We should be smarter than that. That I have a higher regard for Al Franken that I do for others is not a cult of personality. It is an opinion based upon observation.

[Trumpocalypse]

122. No it is a cult of personality

when you put one ahead of all they others. It's not the Al Franken party, it's the democratic party. Plus he didn't even have the most anti-trump/gop voting record. Guess who does?

[quickesst]

129. If the logic and common sense of my reply

.... did not penetrate, what else can I say? My opinion that Al Franken makes a better senator then some others is not a cult of personality. It's an opinion. If you prefer the hive mentality, that's your choice.

[Trumpocalypse]

138. Not logic or common sense but cult of personality

And it is not a hive mentality to support the good of the whole party versus that of one senator, who was rapidly becoming a political liability.

[quickesst]

141. haha...

OK. I'll just stick with being an individual.

[Trumpocalypse]

142. Advocating a cult of personality

is not being an individual. In fact, it is mob mentality.

[quickesst]

161. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat...

[Trumpocalypse]

167. Lame response

But not surprising that you can't defend a cult of personality.

[quickesst]

169. Okay, I'll give it one more shot...

Say there is a mechanics Union, and I prefer one particular mechanic to work on my vehicles because I feel confident in his work ethic, and, heaven forbid, his personality. Using your brand of logic, I should spread my work around to all mechanics whether they do substandard work, mediocre work, or good work. After all, they belong to the same mechanic's union. Maybe this will help you to understand just how inane your hive mentality logic is to me. And you're right. It is hard to defend against pure nonsense.

[Trumpocalypse]

180. Yet you qualified your statement with an IF

So that does not answer the question. Do you support the democratic party or not?

[quickesst]

187. Here ya go...

Last edited Wed Jan 31, 2018, 04:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Since first joining Democratic Underground in 2004, no one has ever asked me that question, nor has anyone ever accused me of not supporting the Democratic Party, so I think I can say with confidence that, yes, I do support the Democratic Party. I hope that answers the question to your satisfaction. If not, you'll just have to keep wondering, or you can draw your own conclusion.

On edit:

[betsuni]

97. "Think of the children" and "That's not okay" were her talking points.

Bullshit defense for giving Franken the axe. I know that everyone says "that's not okay," and I cannot unhear or stop it, but I despise it -- sounds like a kindergarten teacher speaking to toddlers. Makes me cranky. Why not use a grown-up word like "unacceptable"? Too much to ask.

[wroberts189]

101. Franken was a champion of women's issues. None of this makes sense. n/t

[still_one]

102. By not affording Al Franken the hearing he requested, any presidential ambitions she may have had

are up in smoke.

When she speaks out of one side of her mouth and says that Al Franken had every right to a hearing, and then at the same time leads the charge out of the other side of her mouth to demand his resignation, so that hearing would never take place, that pretty much says everything

[NCTraveler]

104. Good on her for stating her case.

More than Franken even attempted to do.

[still_one]

127. Senator Gillibrand said it was Franken's right to a hearing, and then proceeded to start a petition

asking for to resign.

As for any presidential ambitions she may have had, I think they are gone

I think the Democratic response from Joe Kennedy to Trump's SOTU may move a lot of Democrats to view him as a potential candidate

[NCTraveler]

133. I agree with you about the Presidential ambition aspect.

I don't think they are gone but she did herself no favors. That's not as negative of a statement as you make it out to be.

She in no way took away Frankens right to a hearing. At all. The only one with that power was Franken. The same Franken who didn't stand up for himself at all.

[still_one]

136. We obviously aren't going to be on the same page on the Franken issue, and for all practical

purposes it is moot, which in that respect is probably a good thing because it won't act as a distraction going forward

[NCTraveler]

137. Agree and thank you.

So you know, I can't imagine a scenario where Gillibrand would be my choice in the primary, if she is in it. A part of that does have to do with her move being discussed here. Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part when it comes to how solid our field is going to look.

[drbtg1]

123. To Sen. Gillibrand: As you can see here, you should NOT run for president!!!!!

You did a great job of dividing the Democratic base, with half of the base having little respect for you.

Stay in New York and let a superior candidate run for president that ALL of us can enthusiastically support!!!!!!

[LexVegas]

125. ...

[drbtg1]

130. ....and that's why I don't bother posting here all that much.

n/t

[LexVegas]

131. ...

[brooklynite]

140. Yes, a handful of anonymous bloggers have determined your future.

[CrispyQ]

139. Much as I loved Franken & hated what happened, we need to move on.

I will say I'm glad Gillibrand isn't my senator & I hope she doesn't end up on the 2020 ticket. I will always vote dem but I no longer think of them as the smart party.

[MBS]

153. Gillibrand really lost me with her behavior on Al Franken's travails

It's one thing to sadly acknowledge political reality, as, say, Amy Klobuchar and others did.

But to get on a moral high horse about Franken, as Gillibrand did, implicitly equating his actions with that of sexual predators and perverts such as Roy Moore, Trump, Matt Lauer, etc. . well, she lost my respect on this one.

[oberliner]

170. Eight women have spoken out publicly detailing different alleged incidents when Sen. Al Franken...

...groped or tried to kiss them.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sen-al-frankens-accusers-accusations-made/story?id=51406862

That's from ABC News.

[brush]

172. You think we aren't aware of these claims? The first one, Tweeden, sexaully assaulted a guitar...

Last edited Wed Jan 31, 2018, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)

player on stage on the same USO trip that she claimed Franken groped her in that gag photo.

So please, go away.

[oberliner]

173. Those news reports are the source (ABC News, Time Magazine, Politico, Axios, Variety, Newsweek, etc)

Pretty much every major news outlet in the country reported that figure.

Those reports are where the number eight came from that she cited.

[IluvPitties]

175. This a debate that has no benefit for us.

We all feel differently about what happened with Franken, and that will be reflected in the future if Ms. Gillibrand decides to run for the Democratic presidential nomination. Why lose focus of what we are facing under Trump right now?

[brush]

179. The reason for the OP is that she was just on "The View" claiming that there were 8 credible...

accusers. Also that Al Franken is a friend of her's who is entitled to an investigation but not her silence.

Eight credible accusers is, IMO, a lie. Just wanted to remind everyone to remember what she did come 2020 campaign season.

[oberliner]

182. Thus, the OP is problematic - implying that KG lied, when she just cited the same figure

That pretty much every major news source in America had reported on.

I'm not sure why you have it in for Gillibrand - she is a Democratic Party rock star and has stood up to Trump forcefully.

[brush]

183. Just review Tweeden the first accuser, the right winger who worked with Stone and Hannity...

to bring down Franken. She is not credible I don't care what those so-called sources you cite say.

And of course you know that since it's been thoroughly discussed here.

And then there is the accuser who said Franken groped her side. Give us a break.

You're a Gillibrand supporter. Fine. I'm not.

[workinclasszero]

178. Franken lost his seat

Gillibrand lost any presidential aspirations she might have had.

Democrats lose in this exchange any way you look at it IMO.

[oberliner]

181. Gillibrand lost any presidential aspirations she might have had?

What makes you say that?

[workinclasszero]

186. Because she will encounter fierce opposition within the party

if and when she goes for it. You can't see that here on Democratic Underground?

She knocked off a great democratic liberal senator while leading lynch mob IMO. It helped no one but serial sexual assaulter Shitler and his damn traitor party. And that POS does not fear Gillibrand at all!

I would never give a cent to her campaign if she ran in primaries and if she somehow got the nomination I would then reluctantly cast my vote for her while holding my nose.

[oberliner]

188. More opposition than HRC faced from within the party?

There was definitely a sizable chunk of internal opposition towards her as I'm sure you recall.

I think Gillibrand still has aspirations and that the opposition to her, though strong on DU, is overstated.