Fun fact: Hitler was never elected but selected by Hindenburg

[steve2470]

The absence of an effective government prompted two influential politicians, Franz von Papen and Alfred Hugenberg, along with several other industrialists and businessmen, to write a letter to Hindenburg. The signers urged Hindenburg to appoint Hitler as leader of a government "independent from parliamentary parties", which could turn into a movement that would "enrapture millions of people".[147][148]

Hindenburg reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler as chancellor after two further parliamentary elections—in July and November 1932—had not resulted in the formation of a majority government. Hitler headed a short-lived coalition government formed by the NSDAP and Hugenberg's party, the German National People's Party (DNVP). On 30 January 1933, the new cabinet was sworn in during a brief ceremony in Hindenburg's office. The NSDAP gained three posts: Hitler was named chancellor, Wilhelm Frick Minister of the Interior, and Hermann Göring Minister of the Interior for Prussia.[149] Hitler had insisted on the ministerial positions as a way to gain control over the police in much of Germany.[150]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#Appointment_as_chancellor

My point? He got into a position of power through sheer psychopathic deviousness. I challenge anyone to say Trump gained power through totally honest, non-psychopathic means. I dare you.

You owe it to yourself to educate yourself on Hitler, IMO. Yes, Trump bears a lot of similarities to Mussolini. Mussolini wasn't AS evil as Hitler. The huge difference between Hitler and Trump is the lack of strident anti-semitism. If his daughter had never married Kushner? Who knows, I sure as hell do not.

#NeverForget

[genxlib]

1. It begs the question

Is the word Hindenburg synonymous with disaster because of Hitler or because of the infamous zeppelin crash.

Oh the Humanity indeed.

I started reading (OK listening to) "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" after the election. It is quite a daunting undertaking at over 57 hours of audio of dense history. I've made it through about half way before I had to give a break.

So I guess I can say I read "The Rise ____of the Third Reich"

It was an illuminating read. I would never say someone is like Hitler. However, there are some similarities with 1930's Germany that I found striking.

I would say the biggest is that ultra-nationalism does not grow in a vacuum. It festers from an unhealed national wound.

For Germany, it was the loss of World War 1 and the shame that the Treaty of Versailles imposed upon it. A fact that Hitler exploited to rise to power and justify claiming adjacent countries.

For the US, I think 9-11 left scars that have not healed either. The two are not similar (ie starting and losing a war versus being attacked)

Nevertheless, I think the national feeling of vulnerability and desire to strike back has left the US susceptible to bombastic leaders. It is the typical ultra-nationalist refrain of God and Country, might is right, divine intervention, defeat of evil, purity of citizens, restoration of former glory, etc.

[LeftInTX]

2. I agree that Trump is more like Mussolini

Mussolini was the original fascist and his original goals were different than Germany's. He achieved boogey-man status when he aligned with Hitler.

I also see Trump in the likes of other leaders that are bad, but not as bad as Hitler. Saddam Hussein was bad. Idi Amine was bad. Assad is bad. Putin is bad. Trump isn't as bad as these guys.

I personally see Trump at the same level as Turkey's Erdogan. I think Erdogan is bad. He is a thuggist nationalist, who is shifting his country to the fair right, eroding freedoms and persecuting minorities.

[Stuart G]

3. Two elections took place in 1932 in Germany.

About those elections....from Wikipedia:_
____________________________________________________________________________________

Ernst Röhm, in charge of the SA, put Wolf-Heinrich von Helldorff, a vehement anti-Semite, in charge of the Berlin SA. The deaths mounted, with many more on the Rotfront side, and by the end of 1931 the SA had suffered 47 deaths, and the Rotfront recorded losses of approximately 80. Street fights and beer hall battles resulting in deaths occurred throughout February and April 1932, all against the backdrop of Adolf Hitler's competition in the presidential election which pitted him against the monumentally popular Hindenburg. In the first round on 13 March, Hitler had polled over 11 million votes but was still behind Hindenburg. The second and final round took place on 10 April: Hitler (36.8% 13,418,547) lost out to Paul von Hindenburg (53.0% 19,359,983) whilst KPD candidate Thälmann gained a meagre percentage of the vote (10.2% 3,706,759). At this time, the Nazi Party had just over 800,000 card-carrying members.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
My view of events

The 36.8 that Hitler got, mirrors the current support that Trump has. Hindenburg selected Hitler has Chancellor because he thought that he could control Hitler. Further, Hindenburg also thought that Hitler would stabilize the political situation which was dangerous in Hindenburg's view.

Hindenburg died in 1934, and the rest was/is history. That 36.8 percent was the last competitive election that Hitler participated in.
______________________________________________________________________________________

If the Democrats win big in November's election, there will be a shift in power in the U.S. If the Senate and the House become Democratic, or even one of them, there will be a check on Trump's power. We will see.

The above information is from Wikipedia...Adolf Hitler's Rise to Power

link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power

[brooklynite]

4. What do the two have to do with each other?

Regardless of how he did it, he got enough people in enough States to vote for him. He wasn't "selected".

[Stuart G]

7. Correct, Trump was not selected, he was "elected."

The flaw in the electoral college is now obvious to all of us. If the founders had known there would have been a total idiot like Trump in charge at some point, I believe they would have held out for another system of electing the president....but.....

In 1787 when the Constitution was written, elections were solely a "man's duty" Women couldn't vote, and there were other aspects too. It was a different world when the Constitution was written. One other fact should be noted. The writers of the Constitution of the United States, had a good idea who the first President would be. It would be George Washington. The country needed a new set of laws, the leader who was going to be selected was known, there was no idea about "political parties" and it was clear that the country needed to move forward. Indeed, they did add the "Bill of Rights" (10 Amendments ) in order to quiet some of the obvious flaws, but there was no idea that this "new" country would ever be the major power in the world. At that time, the power was with England, France, and Spain. They were the leaders.. (I could go on, but my time at the podium is up)

[brooklynite]

8. Flawed or not, itll be very hard to get rid of...

...and I don’t see the National Voter Compact succeeding as a substitute.

[Stuart G]

9. Yes, Ammending the Constitution is difficult. Very difficult

And that was done on purpose. 27 Amendments.

Take a look at all 27, from Wikipedia:

List of amendments:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

__________________________________________________________________________________

Towards the end of the above article, is a list of amendments that were proposed, but never approved by the necessary number of states. I find two very interesting.

1. Child Labor Amendment

2. Equal Rights Amendment

just pointing these out. no more discussion today.

[sweetapogee]

10. I agree

in addition, the rise to power of Paul von Hindenburg in German politics was through his military position in WW1. At that time is was Imperial Germany not any kind of representative republic. Generals Hindenburg and Ludendorff basically both wrestled power from Kaiser Wilhelm II to the point that by late 1917 the Kaiser had lost most of his power to two generals. Of course as we all know Ludendorff suffered a nervous breakdown in 1918. He did run against Hindenburg for President. But as you say big difference between then and now.

[pandr32]

5. Instead Trump is stridently anti-Hispanic and anti-African-American

And his ICE goons are rounding people up as we speak. Trump couldn't care less about the miseries he causes.

The detention centers (or processing centers) are raising concerns. Reports of terrible treatment (these places are not supposed to be punitive) and long delays for medical care are already resulting in deaths. I fear these round-ups and detentions are just getting started. ICE has already boarded a bus in Florida and demanded people show papers in a very Gestapo-like move, and many communities seem surprised that so many people are being rounded up and taken away.

We know the concerns of BLM as well--Black people, especially male, are regularly being executed by police for little cause other than skin color, and the for-profit prisons are being built to confine many of the rest of them. Trump openly embraces white supremacists and has appointed racist people to important positions--like Jeff Sessions who is now AG.

I totally agree with your post except for the fact that Hitler feared and loathed Jews while Trump fears and loathes people who aren't white like he is AND supportive of him (can't be opposed). He associates with many Jews (Netanyahu and Adelson as two rich examples), and as you pointed out his son-in-law is a Jew, but is rich and white.

[Lint Head]

6. And Trump was selected by Russia

[DavidDvorkin]

11. That was legitimate and not uncommon in Parliamentary systems

It doesn't compare to a presidential system like ours.

In addition, we have the Electoral College, which makes oure system inherently undemocratic.

[steve2470]

12. hmmm.....

Interesting. Toodles.........