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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPRICELESS - Mansplaining from the mansplainees POV
A little levity -- altho it's not really fun for those of us who've been affected:
ROLLED UP THREAD: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/958156835080540161.html
Almost every random man I talk to seems to assume that because I have a PhD in history, I know *almost* as much as he does about history.
Before a PhD, men just told me I was wrong. Now, if I'm lucky, they say "hmmm well that may be true, but..." I'm almost an intellectual equal.
Do male #twitterstorians understand how exhausting it is to have constant conversations in which absolutely none of your claims about the past are accepted without contestation?
No matter how educated or credentialed I am, I can never be more of an expert in my field than any random man.
"Hmmm, that may be true."
"YES IT GODDAMN IS AND HERE ARE MY CITATIONS TO MY OWN RESEARCH AND 12 MORE BOOKS BESIDES!"
Men, sometimes women know more than you about something and that's okay. Get good with yourself, listen, and learn. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
*eats an entire row of Oreos*
This thread is a subtweet of every man I've ever talked to on an airplane, many of my students, and my dad.
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MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Instead, I'll ask questions about things you know about, so I can learn.
Iggo
(47,558 posts)Doin' it since I was like twelve and it totally works.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)It totally does work.
I always try to make a conscious effort to assume a person I don't know is more knowledgeable than me, be they male or female, until they prove otherwise.
That said, I'm sure I've slipped up a few times over the years with both women and men, however.
unblock
(52,243 posts)even though i'm a man, i've been on the receiving end of a bit of this sort of treatment simply because of the anti-intellectualism aspect of it. especially from men who have a business stake in the topic at hand. they hate the notion that they might not fully understand something their life or finances or career depends on, and loathe the idea that someone they just met might have some kind of insight that differs from their own.
so they shout it down or shut it down or belittle it or qualify it or dismiss it or whatever.
i can only imagine if the treatment a woman gets, when there's fragile macho man ego layered in on top of it. i recognize i'm only seeing a fraction of the problem.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)And don't look now, but your post COULD be construed as an example of a type of mansplaining. Or maybe just But What About the Men caterwauling.
If you'd think about your post for a moment, you'd see a valuable lesson about misogyny/sexism in it. Meditate on this line, vis a vis women, for a while: they hate the notion that they might not fully understand something their life or finances or career depends on, and loathe the idea that someone they just met might have some kind of insight that differs from their own.
unblock
(52,243 posts)just trying to relate to the o.p.
i can't relate to the female experience (though i can try to empathize), but i can relate to the highly educated aspect of what was covered in the o.p.
i have had the experience of being lectured, or having my opinions dismissed, by men who have not studied a topic anywhere close to how thoroughly i had. sexism was not at play there, but anti-intellectualism was.
i should have clarified that not all "mansplaining" has an anti-intellectualism component, i was just referring to the o.p., which i still think seems to include that aspect. at least, i'm not clear on how i can have a similar experience and it's anti-intellectualism when it happens to me, but has nothing to do with anti-intellectualism when it happens to a woman.
that's not to diminish the sexism aspect, because i'm sure it happens more often and more strongly to women than to men, just saying that there's an anti-intellectual component to it as well, at least in the case of the o.p. where her credentials as a phd and researcher and author were entirely dismissed.
as for the quote you set in italics, please elaborate as i'm missing your point and would like to learn. i get that the mansplainer is displaying sexism if the person they're talking to is a woman. if there's an aspect of misogyny/sexism beyond this that i'm missing, please let me know.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)I don't think it does -- have anything to do with anti-intellectualism in your case (and IMO that's why it's dangerously close to an example of mansplaining). BUT, in the case of women, it happens all. the. time. And credentials -- on the part of either party -- can have nothing to do with it.
Re my quote of your words -- I was trying to help you empathize better because, again, IMO your example has little to nothing to do with mansplaining and I don't think it's helping you empathize, either.
they hate the notion that they might not fully understand something ... and loathe the idea that someone FEMALE ...
... might actually know something, or have the right to DO something on her own steam, according to her own preferences, or
... don't automatically think the man's ideas are far superior, etc., etc.
NOTHING to do with credentials, and often enough little to do with experience. Just sexism: men know better about every fucking thing, so much better than women better dare not HAVE a thought or plan of their own. A woman being highly credentialed just makes the whole thing more ironic.
Too many men have no compunction whatsoever about inserting themselves into discussions among women about how women should handle their own business, whether it's breastfeeding or women's rights activism, or an individual woman's expert field!
It's SEXISM, not anti-intellectualism.
