IMHO: We need paper ballots, everywhere, and delayed reporting to allow counting. Everywhere.

[lindysalsagal]

And the cost just doesn't matter.

If we don't get a final tally for 2-3-4 weeks, that's fine with me. I want to know putin didn't elect the house and senate.

With the money that's spent on tv and transportation, we could spend some of that on the counting.

LOCAL counting.

[obliviously]

1. Excellent idea!

[tblue37]

2. + a brazillion. nt

[BigmanPigman]

3. OH YES WE DO!!!!

[Iggo]

4. You're not wrong.

[RandomAccess]

5. Absolutely. Paper ballots, hand counted in full public view.

[MontanaMama]

62. YES!

+1000

[brooklynite]

6. So, you'd like to hide away the ballots for "2-3-4" weeks...

....nothing could possibly happen during that time, right?

[lindysalsagal]

8. It can't be done overnight, and don't pick fights for no reason.

[brooklynite]

10. Challenging a "this is the only way to do things" is picking a fight?

If you want paper ballots, great. Just don't blindly assume they're any safer than the voting system we have today (obligatory observation that there's no evidence of hacking of vote tallies).

[mwooldri]

51. Huh? UK manages to do a parliament overnight.

Hand count. Pencil and paper. Sometimes they even do a local government contest at the same time.

One thing that makes it unwieldy in US elections is that people insist on having one election day to vote for everyone from local dog catcher to President of the United States and every race in between. With that large number of races done on one day, yes it's not possible to hand count that many races overnight.

But paper ballots with machine assisted counting is the way to go. For the close races hand counting of paper ballots is possible. For the races where it is plainly obvious who the winner is we can rely on the machine count.

[Hekate]

56. Thank you

[July]

61. Spain also uses paper ballots, counted by citizen panels.

I have described this before on DU. It can be done, accurately and fairly. And quickly.

[Demsrule86]

23. It is never going to happen...and I think the election in 16 was stolen out of the rural areas of PA

and other places never never saw results like that no matter what ballots you use that could still happen...very suspicious...almost mathematically impossible.

[LAS14]

7. Couldn't agree more! nt

[bluestarone]

9. agree here

[mopinko]

11. most precincts could hand count the top of the ticket in an hour.

having worked as a judge a few times, i would hope they would send in counting judges, like they used to do. you are pretty tired at the end of the night, but just the top race or 2 is not undoable.

the most important thing, tho, is auditing what was reported at the precinct level, and what gets reported in the state totals. a print out is available at polling places, and usually printed out for poll watchers.
but nobody seems to make sure those are the numbers that get reported out. malcolm nance mentioned this on msnbc today.

i have spoken to this here before, and it sunk pretty quick.
but absent other security measures, this is available to us as citizens. even if you dont have people to check every precinct, at least it would be a random audit that might show phony results.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Been saying paper ballots, hand confirmation of totals since 2000.

[ollie10]

17. After 2000, there was a movement AWAY FROM

Paper ballots in a lot of places.

Incomprehensible

[Progressive dog]

13. Paper ballots should be required

but not hand counting. The accuracy of counting by machine is much better than hand counting.

[LiberalFighter]

14. Agreed

[renegade000]

15. UK elections are all paper ballots... and they count them overnight.

It's a big community event for each precinct with reps from all the major parties. Seems like a good way of doing things to me.

[jalan48]

16. Yep-we need a way to find out why exit polls seem to be so often wrong these days.

[Amaryllis]

31. Wrong question. THe right question is why do results not match exit polls so often now when that was

never the case for years and years.

[jalan48]

38. That actually was my point.

[Amaryllis]

46. I thought that was your point...:)

[Freelancer]

18. YES! We should bring the purple finger to America too, IMO

Or some equivalent. Otherwise, these right wing accusations of voter fraud will just go on and on. The purple dye on the finger is the emblem of trust in elections elsewhere in the world. We should bring it here.

[kentuck]

19. Agreed.

We have to have confidence in our voting system.

[iluvtennis]

20. +++ Agree. France did this last year in the Presidential election. They shut down media

reports on election 48 hours before voting and media prohibited for reporting anything until the official counts had been provided. We need to start that type of process here as well.

[Demsrule86]

21. I would love that but there could still be cheating...it would be safer...but what do you suppose

the chances of getting such a thing are?

[tritsofme]

22. Because vote fraud didn't exist in the pre-digital era...

Where all ballots were locally counted by hand...Riiiight....

[JoeOtterbein]

24. Paper Ballots that are audited after EACH election n/t

[byronius]

28. A true American will go to any length to make sure people know their votes get counted.

Either side. I think we should offer fully-paid public recounts if any party objects.

Because it's the most important thing in the world. It should be every American's religion.

[JoeOtterbein]

32. Here in PA you touch a name on a computer screen. I like the old lever punch ballot machines better

It feels like I'm doing nothing when I vote.

[byronius]

36. Our town is paper ballot marked with a fat Sharpie.

Love the feeling. Then I get to put it on the sealed box.

Electronic voting is just evil. Period. Like private prisons and child marriage.

[JoeOtterbein]

41. Better but I would still want 3rd Party verification. I do 3rd party food-safety audits, pros can be

honest and objective. I've been offered money, drugs and sex for improved (faked) scores. Even when a attractive young lady manager invited me up to her hotel room for drinks. I said no thanks because food safety is so critical to our health. I'm sure I can trust audit pros from all types of business. Hell, if they can count every penny you made or lost, they can count ballots objectively.

[byronius]

25. It's how Holland is frustrating the Russian assault on democracy.

We should be able to defend ourselves like Holland.

Less traitors in Holland, apparently.

[dugog55]

26. And other changes to our voting

It is also ridiculous that we can only vote on a Tuesday from 7 AM to 7 PM. Most everybody that has a job works on Tuesday, getting there before work would be risky for being late for work, and sometimes getting there afterward is not so easy either. What is wrong with Saturday? Most people are off of work on Saturday. Or make Tuesday a National Holiday. What is more important or American than the right to vote.

I will also mention that nobody should have to stand in line more that 2 hours to vote. I have seen pictures, usually in Democratic strongholds, with waiting lines a block long. It is no secret that Republican Governors have made it more difficult to vote on College Campuses and in areas where the Democrats are stronger.

This is a Progressive Country, but the elections have not been reflecting that in the last 10 years. The Republicans have been implementing Draconian voter rules in States which they control, and there has been suspected computer tampering since the 2000 elections.

Paper ballots, mail in votes, weekend voting, two day voting, and shorter voting lines all should be addressed if we want to consider our Country a Represented Democracy.

[maxsolomon]

27. Great! Now, make it happen.

This is becoming my DU Pet Peeve #1. Making it happen would take a seismic shift of the trend in American Government:

Among the states, there are 33 Republicans, 16 Democrats, and 1 independent that hold the office of governor.

Republicans are now in control of a record 67 (68 percent) of the 98 partisan state legislative chambers in the nation, more than twice the number (31) in which Democrats have a majority, according to the bipartisan National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL).

“That’s more than at any other time in the history of the Republican Party,” according to NCSL. “They also hold more total seats, well over 4,100 of the 7,383, than they have since 1920.”

Next year, the GOP will control both legislative chambers in 32 states - an all-time high, according to NCSL - while Democrats will have total control of just 13 state legislatures.

You might as well ask for a total ban on semi-automatic weapons while you're at it.

Embrace reality, DU.

[druidity33]

33. Well there's this...

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2018-governors-races/

Governors races are looking pretty good at this moment.

[maxsolomon]

39. Yippee Skippee

We need to stop arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Snackshack]

29. Agreed.

Giving a 24-48hr window over a weekend to vote in elections would also be nice.

[csziggy]

60. Paper ballots are better - with scanners a quick count could be done

Then the actual paper ballots could be counted by hand if there are any questions about the totals. Or hand counted just to verify the results.

Here (Leon County, Florida) we have used paper ballots since the late 1980s. In 2000 it took 45 minutes to recount our (admittedly small) county.

The procedure here is that we fill out our ballots and each voter puts their ballot into the optical scanner. If there are any problems with the ballot - extraneous marks, under- or over-votes, the scanner kicks the ballot back out and the voter gets a chance to re-do their ballot. Of course, they can decide not to re-do it, but then there is a very good chance their ballot will not be counted, or they may lose a vote in a particular race.

[debsy]

34. Paper ballots should be used in every precinct in every state across the nation...

... and elections should be federally regulated so that every state is playing by the same rules across the board. Also, PRIVATE MONEY OUT OF ELECTIONS - public campaign finance is the only hope.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

35. see also blackboxvoting.org

https://blackboxvoting.org/

[fierywoman]

37. I believe the Germans have been doing this since after WWII. It's counted by

local government workers, a rep from each party counts each group of ballots and sign a total in agreement with each other.

[riverbendviewgal]

40. Canada's Federal and Provincial elections

Use paper ballots. They are hand counted.

[Ferrets are Cool]

42. But, but, but....

Then they can't cheat. Damn, you're so Un-American....some might even call it treasonous.

[lutherj]

43. In Oregon we have mail-in ballots. Every registered voter

receives a ballot and a voter's guide in the mail. You fill it out at home and mail it in or drop it off at local collection sites. No lines, no voter intimidation. Ballots are sealed in an anonymous inner envelope. The inner envelope is separated from the outer before the counting starts. It's not perfect but it's pretty painless and secure.

[LisaM]

44. I agree. There's no reason the results need to be instant. I'd rather they were correct.

There are powerful forces that don't want the results to be correct.

[CabalPowered]

45. I used to agree with this sentiment

And then I discovered blockchain voting. Even with paper ballots, the results of the tabulation are still entered into a computer. The inherent danger remains. Moving our elections to the blockchain is the only the way to ensure hack-free elections.

https://followmyvote.com/online-voting-platform-faqs/

[mountain grammy]

47. Agree, 100%

Like Colorado.. mail in paper ballots.. over 50%voting .

[Hoyt]

48. I remember lost/stolen ballot boxes, hanging chads, stuffed ballot boxes,

screwed up tallies, etc.

Don’t think paper ballots — alone — will solve anything. Maybe paper receipts, but even those could be tampered with.

Local counting in the South resulted in a lot of white wingers getting elected.

[garybeck]

49. I think you mean *hand counted* paper ballots

the only voting technology that doesn't have paper ballots is DREs (direct recording electronic). yes they suck.
but just having paper ballots is not good enough. many states including mine (VT) has paper ballots but they are all counted by machines which is only marginally better than having no paper. still wide open to hacking and rigging.

we need hand counted paper ballots
or
paper ballots with statistically-significant random audits.

[samnsara]

50. we in wash state have all mail in paper ballots...easy peasy!

[keithbvadu2]

52. Absolutely! Machines that cannot be truly audited are suspect from the start.

Absolutely! Machines that cannot be truly audited are suspect from the start.

Too expensive to add a printer? Bullpoop!

Accounting classes on auditing specifically teach that there is a reason people do not want their work audited.

[AllyCat]

53. Yes!!

[Sam McGee]

54. Everyone take a deep breath.

I'm not presenting myself as an expert, however, I know a little about the topic. I'm the secretary of the electoral board in my rural VA county, have been for six years. We are responsible for putting on our elections.

Paper ballots are best because they leave a verifiable trail that can be hand-counted if need be.

20 or so years ago, the nation fell in love with touch-screen machines -- set up the machine, see the ballot on the screen, touch the box next to the candidate for whom you are voting, hit the on-screen button to cast your vote. At the end of the day, poll workers run a routine on the machine that reports the votes.

BIG PROBLEMS.
1. No paper ballot. No record. If the machine reports 100 votes for Candidate A, 200 for B, etc., THERE IS NO WAY TO VERIFY THE COUNT. You have to trust the machine.
2. The machines can slip out of calibration -- touch the box by A, vote is cast for B.

Added to this problem is that many voting machine manufacturers added wireless capability to their voting machines so, eventually, votes could be reported wirelessly.

In 2015 in VA we had major problems in three districts -- the touch-screen machines in a few precincts acted squirrely. After the election, inspectors discovered their smartphones could talk to the voting machines. The machines were acting up because they polling places were in libraries -- with wireless -- library wireless was trying to contact the voting machine.

So --the state de-certified all touch-screen machines. Current machines must be disposed of and replaced.

We use what I believe is the best possible system that consists of two machines:

PAPER BALLOTS WITH A DIGITAL SCANNER. Voter marks the ballot, puts it into the scanner, scanner reads the ballot, tallies the votes, feeds the ballot into a sealed box underneath the scanner. If the voter has put too many marks or funny marks, the scanner screen displays a warning so the voter can turn in that ballot and get a new one.

HANDICAPPED CAPABLE TOUCH SCREEN MACHINE THAT PRINTS A PAPER BALLOT. These machines are fully ADA compliant -- audio ballot read out, zoom in on the screen, sip-and-puff tube. The voter touches the screen to make their selection. When the voter has voted, the machine prints a paper ballot that the voter reviews then feeds into the scanner with all the other ballots -- thereby creating a paper ballot.

This system is what the entire country should go to. We have six polling places. We bought ten scanners: 6 + 1 for the absentee precinct + 3 spares. Bought 9 of the touch-screen printers: 6 precincts + 1 for absentee precinct + 2 spares. Total cost was under $100,000.

The machines are locked in a vault under two-person control. The vault is under constant visual surveillance. The software for each election is programmed by the manufacturer, we load it into the machines, then we run extensive logic & accuracy tests to ensure the software is programmed correctly. Then, machines are sealed and locked in the vault until election day. The machines do not have any access points -- not wireless, not USB, not ethernet, not any access.

[Pobeka]

57. On the right track, but it can be hacked.

The russians can just write a scanner algorithm that when installed on the system, alters the count, , and upon system shutdown deletes itself and restores the original scanning algorithm -- leaving no trace of altered software. I like the idea of a scanner detecting a screwed up ballot though.

[Hortensis]

66. Thanks, Sam. Good view into what's happening on your watch. :)

[Hekate]

55. GMTA, Lindsay. Been saying it since about 2002.

[liberalla]

58. Agreed! paper ballots, hand counted - the only way.

[drray23]

59. does not take weeks.

most democracies have paper ballots. In France, its counted by hand and takes a day. Here in Virginia we recently switched to all paper ballots. They counted it within the usual time.

Its per precinpt. So, a well organized team does it in a few hours or less (for small ones) and then its passed up the chain for tally up.

[arthritisR_US]

63. Absofeckinglutly!