General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsKirstin Gillibrand coming up on 60 Minutes very shortly.
My checkbook is closed for the weekend.
rzemanfl
(29,570 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)So are you a liberal or not?
rzemanfl
(29,570 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)when you have already made up your mind apparently.
rzemanfl
(29,570 posts)argue with you.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)liberal noun (1820)
: a person who is liberal: as
a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways
(C)1997, 1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)but not entitled to their own facts. To quote the great Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)Not believing women is bipartisan.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/10/trump-chides-lack-of-due-process-in-sexual-misconduct-cases-as-2-aides-forced-to-resign.html
President Donald Trump on Saturday bemoaned what he perceived as a lack of due process, at a time when two of his aides have been forced to resign for similar reasons.
Over the last few days, two White House staffers have stepped down under a cloud of suspicion involving claims of domestic abuse. After staff secretary Rob Porter was forced out, Trump appeared to defend him by saying Porter had denied the allegations even as White House chief of staff John Kelly acknowledged they were credible.
On Saturday, Trump doubled down on his defense by tweeting that "lives are being shattered" by allegations that may or may not be true. The president who has been buffeted by claims of sexual misconduct asked: "Is there no such thing as due process?"
In Porter's case, both of his ex-wives told a news publication that he had physically and verbally abused them. One of the women said Porter choked and punched her during their five-year marriage, according to a report published Wednesday by the Daily Mail.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)brooklynite
(94,745 posts)Im guessing shes not worried at all.
She may well not assembling a compelling Presidential campaign message, but the Franken resignation wont be the driving issue.
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)Primary voters are her problem, don't see her getting through New York, CA, Minnesota, so good luck trying to pull a nomination out by losing her home state and the largest state.
SHE FUCKED UP!
Too bad really, she had a decent future until she let the true Kirsten out.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)dflprincess
(28,082 posts)brooklynite
(94,745 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,869 posts)You never know which state will make a difference.
dflprincess
(28,082 posts)Nice to know her supporters (and probably herself) feel they can just right the state off. That should help her a lot.
Any other states you think she can ignore?
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)dflprincess
(28,082 posts)she'll need every delegate she can get.
BTW Obama won the caucus vote in 2008; maybe he didn't need us to put him over the top, but it didn't hurt.
And, again, what other states do you think she can afford to write off?
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)And I guarantee there are a lot of us out here that won't vote for her in a Primary.
Too cute by half, and she will pay for it.
still_one
(92,422 posts)brush
(53,876 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 12, 2018, 12:19 PM - Edit history (1)
defenders? You guys are badly outnumber by DUers favoring Franken...and we are from states all over the country.
I'd say that's a pretty good sampling of Dem sentiment against backstabbers.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)You shouldnt take a sentiment here and extrapolate it to the party as a whole.
brush
(53,876 posts)Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)she win, I would vote for her in a general. She is not my first choice because of the Franken thing, but she is preferable to any Republican. I only hope we keep Minnesota.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)One thing I NEVER do is let me personal feelings get in the way of my view of the real world.
aikoaiko
(34,184 posts)Oh. Really.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)win a 2020 presidential primary...this is an opinion...and there is not reason to get so nasty about this. I think she was longshot even without the Franken issue...I am not one who believes she should be punished or step down or any other of the crazy stuff I have seen here and elsewhere. She is a popular Senator, and she is not my Senator so it is not my concern. But now Sen Brown also called on Franken to resign so how could I condemn her and not him? I like Sen. Brown a great deal. He iis a great Senator.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)...but I'm not asserting that it's because of the Franken issue and/or voter turn out in Minnesota.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)said he (called him King Roy) kept doing certain thing that caused people to leave the big 'tent' ...and he did lose sadly. I view this as similar...she lost a certain number of voters but then 20 is a ways off too...have to consider that. Even if she doesn't win, we could never know how much if any an affect Franken had...I just looked at some of the pushback online and thought it might have hurt her chances...not saying I have evidence or even a crystal ball!
Skittles
(153,193 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Dont put words in someone else mouth.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)...and I have no preference as to a likely Presidential candidate. Such adding a touch of political reality to the debate.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)brooklynite
(94,745 posts)...and if I DO contribute to Franken, I'm flaunting my income.
Which do you want?
Docreed2003
(16,878 posts)We might not always agree, even on the Franken issue, but I have never viewed your posts as showing off...I do find it enlightening to know whats going on within well connected circles. Frankly, Id be lying if I said I wasnt jealous to be within the same circles!! And I say that as a Dem that happens to, likewise, be blessed with a generous income. So, keep on posting your insight brooklynite!
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)It gets in the way of being outraged.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)I could see her presenting her actions regarding Franken as being "brave" enough to follow #MeToo to its proper conclusion, even if it hurt a powerful male Democrat.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You must log off of DU every now and then. lol
She railroaded a fine senator because she thinks its going to help her WH bid.
She couldn't be more wrong....
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)Rhiannon12866
(206,084 posts)He came to the district to campaign for her when she first ran in 2006. There was a standing room only crowd and they came to see him. She was an unknown.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)role models now and into the future. Kirsten who?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Solid voice on our side.
vi5
(13,305 posts)No thanks.
Rhiannon12866
(206,084 posts)He helped her get elected, came to the district to campaign for her when she first ran for Congress in 2006.
JDC
(10,135 posts)Maybe I'm wrong. I think it is purely a political calculation.
Rhiannon12866
(206,084 posts)She was thinking of running in 2004, but Hillary advised her to wait until 2006 when she'd have a better chance. Both Clintons supported her - and this was well after he left office. And of course I can't see how anyone would benefit without Al Franken in the Senate to speak for us.
JDC
(10,135 posts)And Bill was a convenient target as part of that motive. I should note: All if her moves I consider to be MIScalculations.
Rhiannon12866
(206,084 posts)Both Clintons are powerful allies and when he came to the district to campaign for her, it was standing room only. She managed to unseat a long time incumbent and I believe President Clinton's support was instrumental in that. The Clintons helped her get her start. I was at that rally in 2006 here in NY-20. President Clinton absolutely charmed the crowd.
emulatorloo
(44,187 posts)Skittles
(153,193 posts)she makes me sick
Rhiannon12866
(206,084 posts)It's very disappointing.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Yet only women are demonized for it.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)To call out Donald Trump for being self-serving, nor has anyone here criticized, say, Chuck Schumer this week.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)Thank you.
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)I'm not a fan of Bill Clinton either, he is too calculating also.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Tv stays on Olympics
more to come
Women's Moguls next
jalan48
(13,888 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Ha! Not really.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Explained changes in position and what drove those changes. Admitted that she was wrong on a couple of big issues during the past and that she did not work hard enough to fully educate herself on some issues earlier in her career. Overall, a solid case presented by her.
She clearly is passionate about women's rights and prevention of sexual abuse and assault in all areas of American society.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Thanks for posting.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)That is the way life and politics work. Even the 60 Minutes correspondent, who started out hostile toward Gillibrand seem impressed toward the end of the effort covering and interviewing her for the 60 Minutes piece.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Skittles
(153,193 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)And he can still have his ethics review (paraphrasing).
dhol82
(9,353 posts)Did she really say that?
She will not get my vote in the primary.
I will be changing my registration from Independent to Democrat just to vote against her.
And, yes, if she is the democratic candidate in the final, I will vote for her. Not happily.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)I was paraphrasing(?).
She said he can still get 'due process'.
due process = fair treatment through the normal judicial system, especially as a citizen's entitlement
Skittles
(153,193 posts)and NONE of it was "FAIR"
I have absolute DISGUST for anyone who participated in that garbage
Skittles
(153,193 posts)because she now knows a lot of people with critical thinking skills never bought her self-serving bullshit
Bradshaw3
(7,529 posts)When it is politically expedient.
JI7
(89,275 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)A junior attorney in a law firm don't chose who they represent unless they resign or are willing to get fired.
I worked for one of the biggest defense suppliers as a young engineer out of college. I was somewhat anti defense, I was a big fan of US Senators who shed a light on excessive defense spending. I needed my job, I was not about to quit, I took and completed the assignments that were given to me. But I understand that some people are so pure that they can easily find fault with the decisions that I made, but that is life.
JI7
(89,275 posts)That was Gillirand in calling for Franken to resign
Demit
(11,238 posts)Skittles
(153,193 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)look like whiny, passive agressive (whatever that means, maybe you can explain) statements, but they are what they are, dismissals of foolishness.
jalan48
(13,888 posts)Response to TheCowsCameHome (Original post)
Post removed
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)Yeah, attacking the Democratic Party was Bernie Sander's calling card.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/bernie-sanders-lambasts-absolute-failure-of-democratic-partys-strategy
The current model and the current strategy of the Democratic party is an absolute failure, Sanders said.
The Democratic party needs fundamental change. What it needs is to open up its doors to working people, and young people, and older people who are prepared to fight for social and economic justice.
The Democratic party must understand what side it is on. And that cannot be the side of Wall Street, or the fossil fuel industry, or the drug companies.
Sanderss speech was rapturously received at the Peoples Summit, a gathering of some of the most influential progressive activists and organizations in the country.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)All Bernie was saying in that speech is that the party should be what it's supposed to be...a party that takes the side of the non-wealthy against the wealthy.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)First mention of Bernie and you show up. No other interest in the subject of this thread? Perhaps enlighten us on your opinion when Bernie piled onto Franken?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)just because they called for change.
And I don't WANT Bernie to run again-I don't think anyone who ran in '16 should run-we need to be totally clear of any of the personal toxicity of that year and the only way to do that is to be free of the personalities of that year.
Instead, I simply want the party, whoever it nominates, to incorporate the economic component of the ideas his campaign championed and to make his supporters welcome rather than treating them like they're the enemy or as though T___p is their fault.
THAT is why I sometimes to post things that sound protective of Bernie-not out of any loyalty to him, but out of the conviction that we can't win if we as a party anathemize every idea and every person remotely connected to his campaign. I'm not campaigning for anybody or against anybody...it's just about ideas and wanting us to be able to get the votes we need to get if we're to beat the Right in '18 and '20.
Can people here please trust me when I say why I do this and stop acting like I have a hidden agenda or that I'm lying when I say I don't support anybody for 2020? What possible point would there be in my being dishonest about my intent?
As to the thread...I was reading it and I haven't quite been able to decide who I would side with between Gillibrand and Franken. I'm now anti-Gillibrand but still have some serious issues with Al's choices. It bothers the hell out of me that Gillibrand said that her insistence on pushing for Al's resignation was justified in the name of defending her "right to speak out". Why would she her "right to speak out" as, seemingly, more important than standing up against sexual harassment as an objective in itself.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)But since I have been here the only time I see you show up are Bernie related threads. I might be missing something, but...
Give that a thought
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Sometimes, I also post less than at other times, and I've been posting less lately in general because some people now automatically give me blowback no matter what I post about.
And this actually ISN'T a "Bernie thread" (you'll note I addressed the OP at the end of the post you responded to.
When I do show up in those, it's simply because I think that the fixation some people have with attacking not only him but his supporters(and really, it's in our interest to find some positive way to connect with them, as opposed to the usual response progressive dissidents get in this party, where the party insiders band together to thwart them and then demand support from them right after said thwarting) is unhealthy and damaging, costing us new supporters from the left without gaining us votes from any other part of the spectrum.
It's not something that started in 2016-it goes back at least to 1968 in this party. And I've been pointing out the problem since at least 1976, the first year where I was actively involved in presidential politics
Instead of the usual "we'll stop them-then DEMAND their votes" thing, why not actually reach out to insurgents and see them as the source of new energy and new ideals they could be? Why not invite insurgents in, acknowledge the validity of what they're fighting for and treat them as people of value? Changing the dynamic in that way could only do us good, and can be done without supporting any candidate.
It's about a mindset, not about a person.
PatSeg
(47,613 posts)I have to say that I've seen Ken Burch post on quite a variety of threads. It could just be a coincidence that you've noticed him when something is Bernie related. And sometimes we see what we expect.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Perhaps they are the only threads we both frequent
PatSeg
(47,613 posts)I lived on the Gulf Coast many years ago for a few years Gulfport and then Pensacola. Your DU name just jumped out at me.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I am from S. Louisiana but currently reside in Central Florida about an hour from the gulf. But I will retire on the coast.
Have a nice evening.
I was in high school and my father got a job in Mississippi and later Florida. We moved from the Chicago area, so it a very different world. I loved the beaches though.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)cant steal our SS and our Medicare as long as the DNC is around.
Black people and gay people and non christian religious people will not be wholesale deported or harmed as long as the DNC is around.
So there is INDEED a desire to destroy democrats.
There simply is no bigger fan or supporter of Al Franken on this site than me, and yet I can see what is going on and just how harmful it is.
I bet Al would advise people to stay united and stop the infighting, because he knows what is at stake.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)That might hurt her should she run in 2020.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)A lot of people find it refreshing when a politician admits to being wrong and can explain the details of what caused their change in viewpoint.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)tavernier
(12,406 posts)last year, as there will be many candidates to choose from in future races.
question everything
(47,537 posts)It is not just the way she went after Franken without whom Sessions would not have recused himself.
It is not that she is resurrecting Bill Clinton, who gave us a period of surplus between three Republican administrations with ballooned deficits.
It is that, when it comes down to it, she is a one dimension politician.
Besides assault on women - what else is on her agenda?
And when talking about assaulting women - is she talking only about wealthy Hollywood celebrities? What about the women working at a minimum wage in the factories, in fast food chains who cannot afford to even complain? The assault on whom is more than just "look at my dick?"
BlueDog22
(366 posts)I always liked Kirstin Gillibrand! She would make a good party leader.
brush
(53,876 posts)stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)still_one
(92,422 posts)Joe would get my vote in the primary in a NY minute
Response to TheCowsCameHome (Original post)
Post removed
TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)I didn't know until the preview at the beginning of the show.
Nice try, but still a "fail".
rzemanfl
(29,570 posts)I have had the flu for a week. Don't get it if you can help it.
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)For what 30 odd other Democratic Senators also did.
Including a hero of many here.
But of course they get a pass because, you know, she made them do it.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I am no fan of hers and she would not be my choice in a primary. But to see so many here trying to use her in an effort to excuse their favorite for doing the exact fucking thing she did is so obvious and humorous.
These people are Senators. If they are weak livered enough to allow her to dictate their decision then she is the best among them. At least she acted without feeling the need to go along with the crowd.
I do not like her, but can call our hypocrisy.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)and she acted WITHOUT THINKING of anyone by HERSELF
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Why not blame the guy who actually had to resign? Or chose to resign?
Or all the other Senators who did the exact thing she did.?
In my flawed opinion some here are using this to damage a percieved threat to their favorites.
No, lets blame the girl who might actually be sensitive to these issues.
I use the term girl to make a point. I normally find that term very offensive and will correct anyone in a professional setting who use the term.
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)It's not about gender.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)They are attempting to use her to remove blame for others, especially one who many love, of all complicity.
I do not like her at all. But I recognize hypocrisy when I see it.
This is the US Senate. Not the 10th grade where peer pressure rules.
I have no doubt she did it to remove a rival. But so did other Senators. If you hate her with the fire of hell but excuses all other Senators who did the same she as her...think about it.
mythology
(9,527 posts)He himself admitted he did things that made women uncomfortable. You don't get to blame the women who came forward, or even the people who called on him to resign. You blame the guy who couldn't keep his hands to himself. If he had done that, then he'd still be in the Senate.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)a political hitjob.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)FOR SELF-SERVING REASONS
DONE WITH HER AND I AM *DONE HERE*
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)But obviously I have hit a nerve. Tell me one thing I have said that is factually incorrect and I will apologize.
I really do not like the Senator in question but I try to see things with my eyes wide open.
If you are running this quick, please rethink you position.
DiverDave
(4,887 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 12, 2018, 08:35 AM - Edit history (2)
For an investigation is wrong ?
By going out and demanding his resignation, she played into the freaking republican game.
And, funny how no more complaints have surfaced since he left.
Quite the coinkydink, no?
Danged fat fingers.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I do not think he should have resigned.
What I am objecting to is blaming one senator for the actions of over 30 of them. Especially those who blame her for trying to take out a perceived presidential rival while they are doing the exact same thing by attacking her.
Jakes Progress
(11,122 posts)when it turns to blame without being called on it. She leapt to the front to be the one with the headlines. Senator Hirono was on Rachel the day after talking about how they were going to do a joint release only to get back to her office and find that Kirsten had jumped the gun to get the press. As you have stated, it was a mistake. And now a responsible person would acknowledge fault, ask for forgiveness, and try to do amends. Kirsten isn't and neither are the others who fell for that republican sleaze game.
For me, they can all be senators. Some of them are very good at it. But they displayed a lack of political and ethical judgement that should disqualify them for leadership of the party. Pick any reason for their piling onto the band wagon, and it is hollow and shows poor judgement.
Because they fell for the scam, Franken's picture goes up on the screen every time they mention Weinstein, Lauer, and Moore. Does that sound like a good thing? You know who's picture doesn't go up with those - trump.
The whole group stabbed one of their own in the back. Kirsten is getting the most flak because she maneuvered herself to get all the credit when it first came out. She didn't know that it would go the other way. You can't claim credit for building the bridge then blame everyone else when it collapses.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Do you have proof of that? And I mean real proof with facts that can be linked to.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)"We just heard allegation after allegation. They were credible allegations. I believed the women," says Gillibrand.
Pressed as to why she didn't wait for all the facts to come out in an investigation, Gillibrand was firm. "Where's my moral compass if I can't speak out just because I like someone? Just because they're my friend? It's okay to be a harasser as long as you're my friend? That is not okay," she tells Alfonsi.
"He's entitled to as much due process as he wants. He doesn't ever have to resign. That's his choice. And my choice is to speak out," says Gillibrand, who has emerged as the political face of the "#metoo" movement.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)brooklynite
(94,745 posts)Manchin 2020!
Skittles
(153,193 posts)not EVEN going to bother; NOT WORTH MY TIME
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)Where was her moral compass when she decided to be judge, jury and executioner? Where was her moral compass when she decided that Tweedon, whose story fell apart within 48 hours, was "credible"? Where was her moral compass when the other "credible allegations" turned out to be as ludicrous as Tweedon's: "He touched my waist," "I think he wanted to kiss me, but I turned away", "He touched my ass right in front of my husband and a crowd of people - only not a single person saw it."?
Yeah, it was "her choice to speak out", and now she can live with that choice - which, in case you haven't noticed, isn't exactly going over well with voters.
msdogi
(430 posts)Did not like her, seems a bit too much posturing going on.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)She's lost favor with many of us in the party.
Provided everyone here is registered as a Democrat that is.
Response to SHRED (Reply #87)
BannonsLiver This message was self-deleted by its author.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)but I absolutely agree
BannonsLiver
(16,470 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Why attack a person for being wealthy if the person is overall a good person? That is insane.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The Democratic Party as a whole is center-left, DU is noticeably (to me at least) more left and generally better informed about politics and issues.
I think Gillibrand will play well in the eyes of rank and file democrats.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Most of it was her explaining how and why she switched her political positions
to appeal to both liberal down state NY and conservative upstate NY.
I suspect her shifting positions will haunt her should she run for President.
Who was the candidate some years ago who got hammered with the comment:
"I was for it before I was against it" ?
vi5
(13,305 posts)...although the Franken incident is yet another example of her taking positions that are self serving, only for as long as they serve her interests.
What people need to be reminded of more than anything is that she was a Blue Dog until it didn't suit her political needs any more. Then she became a Clinton fan.....until that didn't suit her needs any more then it was under the bus they went.. That is what we need to keep harping on more than the Franken thing, although that should be remembered as well.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Could not disagree with you more. She came off pretty well in my opinion.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)We agree to disagree.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)after seeing this, she's nothing but an opportunist with no real stands..
drbtg1
(1,054 posts)... I think of Lieberman circa 1998, kinda like I've seen how this movie ends before.
Just sayin'.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Said he didn't have to resign,
and he can still get "due process*".
*"fair treatment through the normal judicial system, especially as a citizen's entitlement"
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Owl
(3,644 posts)ConnorMarc
(653 posts)I was a fan of her, but her recent performance makes me say...WHO the EFF is that?!?!
Thanks, but, no thanks.