So, James Holmes was seeing a psychiatrist!

[Th1onein]

Last edited Fri Jul 27, 2012, 06:48 PM - Edit history (3)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/james-holmes-sent-notebook-psychiatrist_n_1702216.html?ref=topbar

I wonder if he was taking an antidepressant?

Edited to add: CNN is now reporting that his defense team says he was seeing a psychiatrist: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/27/justice/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html

[LisaL]

1. So, that is a wrong assumption.

[Th1onein]

19. Actually, it was not an assumption.

Last edited Fri Jul 27, 2012, 06:13 PM - Edit history (1)

It came, quite logically, from this statement in the Update from The Huffington Post: "The Denver Post reports that Holmes sent the package to his shrink on Friday -- the day of the shooting -- and that it arrived in the mailroom on Monday."

They didn't say A shrink, or his teacher, or anything that would lead you to believe anything OTHER than he was seeing a psychiatrist--"his shrink."

Of course, that is incorrect, because The Huffington Post got it incorrect. Their link to the Denver Post article simply goes back to the update, but I pulled up the article on the Denver Post's website and, of course, they said nothing of the sort. It was simply a psychiatrist that works at the university Holmes attended.

Edited to add: And now, CNN is reporting that he was, indeed, seeing a psychiatrist. Not too wrong of an assumption after all, was it?

[LisaL]

37. Well if you look at the actual denver post article, it doesn't report anything of the sort.

[get the red out]

86. Why would the conclusion be antidepressants?

He could have been medicated with any number of drugs, for any number of yet to be identified problems, or taking nothing at all; or he could have been prescribed something he needed and stopped taking it.

There are a lot of possibilities.

[HuckleB]

2. We don't know if he was seeing a psychiatrist.

Nor do we know if he was being treated in any manner.

Please do not push BS.

Thank you.

[Cary]

103. But we do know that treatments for psychopathy don't work well.

Unfortunately.

[HuckleB]

113. We know that we don't know much about it.

We will never know how many "psychopaths" did not develop because of other MH treatments.

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. The Denver Post story never says he was actually seeing this or any psychiatrist. n/t

[Th1onein]

12. Really? You sure about that?

"The Denver Post reports that Holmes sent the package to his shrink on Friday -- the day of the shooting -- and that it arrived in the mailroom on Monday."

Sounds like he was seeing a psychiatrist to me.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

13. I'd be interested in seeing the actual Denver Post article

that says "his shrink", as I find it hard to believe that such a newspaper would use such a term. Much more likely that this is the interpretation of the on-line reporter.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. Link to the Denver Post story. I stand by my response to the OP

"It was unclear if Holmes, 24, had had any previous contact with the person. However, as part of his studies in a neuroscience program on the Anschutz Medical Campus, Holmes was enrolled in a course — "Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders" — that was taught by a psychiatrist and included presentations by seven others with that speciality. Holmes withdrew from the program on June 10.


http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21156393/theater-shooting-feds-say-suspect-may-have-mailed

[SickOfTheOnePct]

18. I just posted the exact same thing n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

66. It's almost too easy sometimes.

I'd say GMTA if I had a GM.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

150. OK, this is getting weird...

...because when I posted the "me too", I typed out GMTA, then took it off, because I'm no GM either.

[LisaL]

38. The psychiatrist was possibly his teacher, according to this article. The article never

claims he was Holmes' shrink.

[shanti]

52. "Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders"

i have read that holmes was an adoptee. maybe he knew he was different, and wanted to find out why...

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. Your quote is from huffpo, NOT the Denver Post... you know that, right?

Right?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

16. Yeah, pretty sure

It was unclear if Holmes, 24, had had any previous contact with the person. However, as part of his studies in a neuroscience program on the Anschutz Medical Campus, Holmes was enrolled in a course — "Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders" — that was taught by a psychiatrist and included presentations by seven others with that speciality. Holmes withdrew from the program on June 10.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21156393/theater-shooting-feds-say-suspect-may-have-mailed

Nothing in the Denver Post article that mentions him seeing a psychiatrist.

[soccer1]

28. From why I have read......

Holmes sent the package to a psychiatrist at the university. Holmes would be in contact with psychiatrists who teach the students in the neuroscience graduate program. Holmes was on of those students. I haven't read yet, that Holmes was seeing any psychiatrist as a patient.

[kestrel91316]

40. I doubt he was seeing a psychiatrist. Schizophrenics

avoid them like the plague unless physically compelled.

[Sadge Sun-tastic]

95. And you know he was a schizophrenic BECAUSE..........................

Right. You don't.

You just sop up whatever the Military Industrial Complex via the new mouthpiece of propaganda, otherwise known as the MAINSTREAM MEDIA, mouths and then parrot it back to the rest of us.

[kestrel91316]

116. I don't know it - I strongly suspect it. I have decades of experience

dealing with a schizophrenic family member and I can spit them a mile away.

But do carry on with your hateful insults.

FYATHYRIO

[kestrel91316]

117. Oh, I strongly suggest you improve your attitude toward DUers. Keep this up and

you won't last long.

[arely staircase]

120. military industrial complex?

say wha?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

4. I didn't see where it said he was seeing a psychiatrist

It said he mailed his diary to a psychiatrist that is also a professor at the university. There is a reference in an update to "his shrink", but other than that, no indication I could find that he was seeing the doc.

You can bet that if he was, there will be lots more out of this, and soon.

[sharp_stick]

5. If I had a nickel

for every armchair doctor diagnosing this wacko and posting on this site over the last several days I could probably buy a really bit latte at Starbucks.

[customerserviceguy]

63. I could buy a really good used car

The number of people here ready to exonerate Holmes based on their amateur diagnosis is astounding.

I hope he faces a capital criminal trial, and if some shyster gets it bargained down to life without possibility of parole, I'll be satisfied.

[coalition_unwilling]

161. Friendly piece of advice, but 'shyster' has anti-semitic connotations. I won't alert on it, b/c

the etymology is contested, but you should probably be aware.

[maddezmom]

6. where did you hear he was seeing one?

the link says he sent a notebook to one.

[Tx4obama]

7. Please stick to the FACTS. The psychiatrist was a TEACHER at the university.

There is no evidence that Holmes was 'seeing' a psychiatrist.

[LisaL]

8. Well, I guess he was "seeing him" while sitting in his class.

LOL.
Sounds like this person was one of his professors. Not his shrink.

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. Actually, the Post doesn't even make THAT claim...

"Holmes was enrolled in a course — "Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders" — that was taught by a psychiatrist and included presentations by seven others with that speciality. (emphasis mine)

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21156393/theater-shooting-feds-say-suspect-may-have-mailed

[ananda]

59. This is where we as a society go wrong..

.. in buying into the biopsychiatry mess and the idea
that meds will actually solve mental problems..

.. when in fact most psychotropic meds make people
worse, exacerbate violent and suicidal tendencies, and
do actually account for some of the horrific killings we've
witnessed over the years.

The fact is that James Holmes looks and acts zombified
by drugs. I want to know exactly what those drugs are.

It doesn't matter a whit to me what people think of my
views about psychiatry and meds. I know it's important
and I want to know.

[upaloopa]

84. You should begin by saying "I don't have facts to back this up but IMHO.

I'll get smacked by the jury if I say what I really feel so I'll just say this.

You do more harm than good by saying what you do. Someone like James Holmes who could be helped maybe will read something like you posted and not seek help.

You do not know what you are saying and IMHO you should STFU!

Sorry jury, what is said is far worse than what I just posted. He should be removed not me!

[Confusious]

92. Your compassion

Last edited Thu Jul 26, 2012, 02:46 PM - Edit history (1)

and ignorance is duly noted.

The compassion part was

[HappyMe]

107. Good grief!

Wow. Is it the 1800s where you are?

[elehhhhna]

172. lol yes, and he forgot to mention that

it is ALL his Mother's fault.

[coalition_unwilling]

163. I generally respect your writing, but here I must profoundly disagree. Lithium

is a 'miracle drug' for most sufferers of Bipolar disorder. (IIRC, some 15% fail to respond or are allergic.) I know b/c my younger brother was so diagnosed and I watched the drug's miraculous effects in person.

You might want to consider substantially editing your post or deleting it.

[rollin74]

9. he sent the notebook to a professor at the school he was attending

the professor also happens to be a psychiatrist

I don't think there is any indication that Holmes was a patient

[Comrade_McKenzie]

10. What the hell does antidepressants have anything to do with it? nt

[Th1onein]

22. I think that these mass killings have to do with antidepressants.

There's a lot of evidence for this idea. It's anecdotal, but it's still evidence (I don't think you can expect one of the pharmas that produce the drugs to come out with empirical data on this, though, for obvious reasons). And, of course, these drugs have a warning on them that they can cause homicidal urges (etc.). It strikes me as more than coincidental that many of these perpetrators of mass murder have been on these drugs, or withdrawing from them, when they've committed their crimes.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

23. Which doesn't seem to apply in this case at all

Since there is no indication that Holmes was even seeing a psychiatrist.

[Th1onein]

27. Nevertheless, it's an important question to ask

and to have answered. I mean, if you test for cannibis, etc., why not test for one of these compounds, since they are known to cause homicidal tendencies?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

29. If you think it's an important question to ask, go for it

I have no issue with asking the question - I have an issue with posting unverified information as fact, and then using that as a springboard to assume that it must have been the evil medication that made the guy murder people.

[Th1onein]

33. I posted what I saw reported as an "update" on HP.

Unfortunately, someone on there got it wrong and instead of simply saying that Holmes sent a package to one of the teachers who happened to be a psychiatrist at the university he attended, they reported that he sent it to "his shrink."

No one was using it as a "springboard." In fact, I didn't know it was incorrect information. Even so, it is a good question to ask.

I'm not trying to excuse anyone's behavior, but I think that this kind of thing has happened enough times, while people were taking, or withdrawing from, these types of medications, we need to know the answer.

[Th1onein]

30. it is not necessary for him to have be seeing one...

in order to be on this type of medication. You can (and many people do) get a script for these drugs from your GP. He certainly had access to Vicodin; I don't see that it's a far stretch to think that he might have been on these drugs, as well.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

31. Then why post the false claim that he was seeing a psychiatrist? n/t

[Th1onein]

43. See Post #33

[Comrade_McKenzie]

24. Every website I've seen making that claim has no credibility as a valid source. nt

[Th1onein]

26. There is a website

that links these kinds of crimes to the actual news stories, and gives the sources: www.ssristories.com. But do you really need something like that when you have the warning on the literature that comes with the medications, themselves? Is that credible enough for you?

[Confusious]

100. I take those meds

The only one that happens to me is the shits, and only happens if I don't eat before taking the medication.

I'm sure you could find a "natural" remedy that does that.

Not everything on the package happens to everyone. Some many not happen to anyone.

If there is even a minuscule chance that it happens, they have to, by law, put it on the package.

Your not in good company pushing this. Alex Jones, age of autism, all paranoids and liars.

[w8liftinglady]

143. so do I... I had to stop Luvox,Celexa and welbutrin

due to some pretty serious side effects.

We all do absorb these meds differently,which is why you should follow up with a doc.

[Th1onein]

158. I think we ought to yank them off the shelves OR figure out a way to test for toxicity

It's only my opinion, at this point (albeit backed up by at least one scientific study), but I believe that those who suffer from homicidal ideation and/or suicidal ideation, have toxic levels of the drug built up in their systems. This could be due to any number of reasons, including overdose, but is most likely due to some sort of polymorphism in one of the genes responsible for metabolizing the drug. If we can find out which gene it is, we can test for it, and prescribe accordingly. That way, those who would benefit from the drug, still benefit, and those who would likely suffer adverse effects either don't get the drug, or have their dosage adjusted.

A general practicioner just giving them out willy nilly, though, is not the way to go, and that's what we have right now. Depressed? Here, just take this pill. Little, if any, monitoring, and no testing, whatsoever, for toxicity.

[Blue_Tires]

75. FWIW I've been taking a variety for years and haven't killed anyone...

[Dreamer Tatum]

82. It's anecdotal, but it's evidence?

Make up your mind.

[Th1onein]

168. Sorry, yes, there is actual empirical evidence.

Last edited Fri Jul 27, 2012, 05:53 PM - Edit history (1)

I cited the source downthread. I hadn't seen the study when I wrote the previous post calling the evidence "anecdotal." Although....there IS a lot of anecdotal evidence, as well.

And, FWIW, anecdotal evidence is STILL evidence.

Edited to add:

Here is a link to a very illuminating video on this very topic. In fact, you will see that Michael Moore, at around 12:00, asks this question, suggests that we ask this question, as well:

[HuckleB]

114. No, there isn't much evidence.

Why do you pretend otherwise?

[Confusious]

125. Full of it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

Since SSRIs didn't appear until 1980, anything before that would disapprove your "theory"

As there are more then quite a few before 1980, I would that puts the nail in the coffin.

[BeHereNow]

36. Many SSRI drugs have been linked to Suicidal/Homicidal ideation. That's what.

The UK banned doctors from prescribing them to any person
under the age of 18 based on conclusive evidence that proved the link
between SSRI drugs and suicides and homicides in that population.

As one who has studied the research, there HAS been evidence to require
warnings on these medications, countless numbers of private settlements and
class action law suits against the manufacturers of SSRI drugs.
Columbine shooters were all taking SSRI or neuroleptic medications in high doses,
as was the woman who drowned her children in Texas- sorry her name escapes me at the moment.

I personally had a suicidal ideation experience with Zoloft.

Not everyone does- clearly some of these drugs are HIGHLY beneficial to many people.
Problem is, they have NO way of predicting which people will have an adverse drug reaction
to the various SSRI medications.

BHN

[Th1onein]

42. Thank you, BeHereNow.

Everyone is jumping on his or her bandwagon, saying "Oh, it's the violent video games;" "Oh, it's the guns;" etc., etc.

These mass killings are becoming more frequent and we need to know why. Maybe it's the damned prescription meds, and not the guns and not the video games?

There's no doubt that these drugs help a lot of people, but if no one knows how to tell which ones are going to be helped and which ones are going to go off on a killing spree, maybe we need to find another way to treat depression?

[BeHereNow]

45. There are other medications- I for one will NEVER be given an SSRI again. I am a documented ADR.

It is in my permanent medical records that I can not take SSRI drugs due to the
ADR I had with Zoloft.

They give me other things and they work very well.
There is always a solution, just not enough doctors who are willing
to help you find it.

I am VERY fortunate that I have an excellent GP who specializes in what "ails me."

BHN

[loyalsister]

50. I think the problem is with the oversight

They are too often prescribed by GPs who have no idea how to monitor the side effects properly.

They can be used effectively when doctors understand and monitor the side effects.

[BeHereNow]

54. Agree 100%! Too long, SSRIs were touted as the magic bullet- for some they are.

But in a small percent of the population (lucky me) they can have quite
dangerous results.

When I experienced an ADR on Zoloft in 1997? I think it was, I was very fortunate
to be with a friend who knew me well and knew well that something was very wrong with me.

Monitoring by caring and supportive loved ones is the key- not emphasized nearly strongly enough
by physicians to family and friends who need to be made aware of the potential side effects in some people.

BHN

[loyalsister]

67. My neurologist made another good point

He said that the discussion has taken a dangerous turn. A lot of patients don't seek medical care out of fear and\or general spite for the industry. It's an extension of the immunization controversy.

[get the red out]

90. I was one

for a very long time, and suffered depression in silence. The improvement in my quality of life when I finally sought help for my depression/anxiety issues was beyond belief.

I hate that people with any kind of mental health problem could get marginalized by this horrible incident. Which can lead to people not seeking help they need.

[loyalsister]

106. The reactions are bound to be extreme

But, I have little patience for people who are unwilling to consider how their assumptions can affect people who are trying to improve their lives.

[Sadge Sun-tastic]

96. LOL--You just fall in line with whatever doctors tell you!

We are a sick country! Meds and vaxxes have NOT made us experience a collective wellness! Look at Sally Ride--62 and dies of cancer.

[loyalsister]

98. LOL

If I don't pay attention to dr. I will be taking risks that could kill me. I have known a few people who have my condition and have died from head injuries. Without any or fewer meds in my blood I have fallen flat on my face with only my nose and glasses to cushion me from damaging my frontal lobe.
Those of us who experience chronic conditions are taking our lives into our own hands we can try to live as painlessly as possible when we consult and work with doctors to manage our conditions.

When people in my situation just ignore doctors....
http://abcnews.go.com/US/monica-chavez-colorado-woman-seizure-killed-family-found/story?id=16584754#.UBGAztuF-ck

[Confusious]

105. Really?

I wonder if you'd be saying that about smallpox.

Or was that something else that wiped that out?

Chinese medicine perhaps?

[get the red out]

112. I am afraid there is a middle ground

And many people do need medications for various problems, this should not be ridiculed. We are way too all or nothing in this society, and choosing up "sides" like medication vs non-medication. That is not healthy.

[Zoeisright]

180. Oh for God's sake.

Sally Ride died of pancreatic cancer. She actually lived the average lifespan for people with that illness; 17 months beyond diagnosis. Because SHE listened to HER doctors. There are no early tests for that disease. And without vaccines, most of us would die at a very early age from preventable diseases.

[lapislzi]

87. Correct.

If my shaky biochem serves me, the increased serotonin levels can cause disinhibition in some individuals. This could lead to difficulty with impulse control, or acting-out behavior that could or would normally be sublimated. The "up" boost you get with the drug can cause negative thoughts, even the ones that are useful, to short out.

I have seen it occur twice with the drug Lexapro.

I am making no comment on Mr. Holmes, his mental state, or the status of his treatment, if any. Just relating my experience with SSRIs.

[Confusious]

102. Only one of the columbine shooters

was taking medication. what did the other one get? a contact high?

[BeHereNow]

119. The toxicology report was never released on Dylan Klebold; however

It was discovered that he had been buying, illegally, another class of medication
used to treat ADHD.

Again, let me make it clear- I am NOT anti medication.
It has saved the life of my closest family member.

I am personally SSRI intolerant and can NOT take it as I have been
documented as an ADR. I take other things that work for me.

What I object to is the stigmatization of Mental Health problems and
the lack of public education about the POTENTIAL risks, now "black box" labeled,
of certain drugs for an unknown population.

There, so far, has been NO medical application to identify individuals
who may experience an ADR from SSRI medications.

BHN

[Confusious]

126. Didn't take to long to find

Same report, one lists drugs, one doesn't.

so much for that.

[HuckleB]

115. Ideation is not acts.

Further, later studies have shown that simply asking a patient during an evaluation whether or not the patient has thought about suicide increases suicidal ideation. Again, not acts. Ideation.

In the end, it appears that the drugs have no actual effect on ideation either.

Please stop pushing urban myths.

[BeHereNow]

118. Urban myth? That resulted in "Black box" warnings?

Sorry, you don't know the facts.
The risks are real- granted they happen in a very small percentage of the
population, but the ideation DOES in fact sometimes lead to actions with tragic
consequences. I am PRO medication btw, but I feel that there needs to be
more public awareness about SSRI risks and LESS stigmatization of Mental Health issues
in general.
It is NOT a black and white issue, as many on this thread have attempted to paint it.

BHN

[HuckleB]

148. In other words, you don't know much about black box warnings.

The evidence needed to put one on a drug is very minimal, and those warnings are put in place before longer-term studies can occur. The longer-term have shown exactly what I noted. Thus, your response is completely off base.

Nothing is black and white, but the preponderance of evidence clearly shows that the ideation factor likely has NOTHING to do with the drug, and everything to do with actually getting care. That is not to say that care is a bad thing, since studies show that care, including medication, appears to decrease suicide rates compared to a lack of treatment, etc...

As for your comment about SSRI risks, since the public seems to think those risks are much greater than they actually are, you're point is nothing short of bizarre.

[w8liftinglady]

147. how about suicidal ideation...is that a myth?

Man,I feel relieved!
I was worried for a minute.

yes I had suicidal ideation on Luvox and celexa...my brain is funny that way..now that it's been jacked up.

Yes,it was all in my head.I had a syringe of potassium chloride,and was three inches away from injecting.

I'm better.
Peace.

[HuckleB]

149. If you had read my actual post, you might realize that correlation is not causation.

The same amount of suicidal ideation occurs simply because individuals are asked if they have thought about suicide.

Anecdotes are meaningless in this context. And the plural of anecdote is not data.

There is also the nocebo effect. Ever heard of it? Look it up.

[w8liftinglady]

139. I had to stop taking celexa because of suicidal ideations... and they have been documented...

in several ptsd patients as causing homicidal ideation as far back os 2004,as I recall
http://www.nctimes.com/news/national/article_31b71caa-ff58-5252-8699-5a265387b1cd.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18199249
http://www.thenewyoga.org/Drug_Warnings.pdf

[w8liftinglady]

141. I have had the same issues with different ssris

Celexa and welbutrin after my brain surgery
celexa- suicidal ideation
welbutrin- seizure

they affect the brain chemistry- that is where the psyche is located.
I should know

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Just for the record

Some medications used in psychiatry, in fact, in general, a certain sleeping pill is infamous for this...can change neuro chemistry and cause delusions and all that.

It is recognized as side effects.

As to Holmes, I keep saying, competency hearing. He not only needs to go through it, the law requires it.

Now will make two assumptions which are purely hypotheticals.

Assume for a momemt he was seeing a doctor and he was taking the drugs...who is liable here? Holmes? Insanity plea becomes far more likely.

The doctor,the lab, or the FDA? Perhaps all three?

You don't believe these are possible side effects, just read the list of them for Lunesta and Prozac. One is a classic sleep med, the later is an often used anti depressant.

[w8liftinglady]

142. antidepressants work on the brain in different ways..but they DO work on the brain.

That's why you should follow up with your doc...and be totally open if you are having mood swings

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. I am keeping it simple

but SSRI's are infamous of doing this in a SMALL number of patients, and in EUROPE SSRIs are NOT used in anybody under 18... there is a good reason for that.

[RedCappedBandit]

11. Wow.

[ananda]

20. Most psychiatrists are pill pushers..

.. and quite often those pills exacerbate violent
and/or suicidal tendencies.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

21. FFS we don't even know that the guy was seeing a psychiatrist n/t

[ananda]

25. Do they do blood serum tests to see what he was taking?

I'd like to know.

We already know about the Vicodin and cannabis, right?

[Union Scribe]

53. I'm surprised at the speed at which Holmes

has become the canvas onto which people paint their advocacy posters, though most people seem to have had theirs ready to go: violence in the media, evils of psychiatry, government conspiracy (not here, yet, thankfully) etc.

[HERVEPA]

79. Bullshit on the quite often! And do you have any clue how many people these drugs help

Letting them lead a normal life rather than constant depression.

[BeHereNow]

123. NO one has disagreed with the fact that MANY people benefit from these medications.

The question is what about the population that experience ADR from them?
I suffered a severe ADR, so severe that it was documented with the manufacturing company.

It DOES happen and has been linked to many tragedies.

The majority of people who take them BENEFIT!
GOOD!

I can never take one again, so say the DOCTORS.

My loved one, who is BP, can NOT tolerate SSRI drugs.

Thanks the heavens for public awareness on both the benefits and risks.
There needs to be more public awareness of the risks- any time any one
attempts to discuss that factor, people who benefit from SSRI drugs
feel attacked for some reason.

No one is saying they don't benefit many people, restoring quality of life as intended.

The question is what about those of us who have experienced life threatening reactions to them?
Are we not allowed a voice in the discussion?

BHN

[HERVEPA]

179. I do realize some people have problems with these drugs

My post, however, was in response to the most psychiatrists are pill-pushers posts. Sounded like the Scientology crap.
I am sorry for the issues you and your BF deal with. Best of luck.

[Sadge Sun-tastic]

94. I agree with you wholeheartedly

however in this instance, I feel that this was a whole other animal. I think he was MK Ultra'd. I actually believe that they picked this dude up from the street and framed him. You know, the way they've been doing to Muslims for years. Only now it's hitting home.

In court they definitely had him on some sort of anti-psychotic drug to totally subdue him. It's evil what they've done! And now the media is in cahoots with the Military Industrial Complex! Got fascism? So basically they spread the lies like that dude from the Nazi regime--Goebels?

One such lie: his mother's statement: "You have the right person" was promoted as being in reference to her son, when in fact they were asking if SHE was his mom.

[w8liftinglady]

145. My psychiatrist isn't

and,coincidentally- a lot of anticonvulsants started out as anti-depressants...and vice versa.

I owe my psych doc my life...literally.

[MineralMan]

162. You have surveyed "most psychiatrists?"

You know most psychiatrists?

I didn't think so.

[TheManInTheMac]

32. Ever hear of HIPAA? That's Greek for "It's none of your damn business."

You'll find out soon enough. We all will.

[Th1onein]

35. No need to be rude, TheManInTheMac

And it becomes our business, I think, when someone commits such a crime against society.

[TheManInTheMac]

56. I'm sorry for being rude.

I'm sure that these questions will be answered in due time. Answers are going to be few and far between: whether this guy should be institutionalized, incarcerated, or executed is up to a jury of his peers, and that jury, drawn from the populace of the environs of Aurora, should be as unpolluted and objective as possible.

Again, sorry for the rudeness.

[Th1onein]

74. I don't know that they WILL be answered in "due time," or at any time, in fact.

That's what bothers me about this subject. Did you notice that the media didn't even ASK if the shooter at Fort Hood, who was a psychiatrist, himself (and, thus, had access to all kinds of medications, including antidepressants), was taking these drugs? They didn't even ASK.

I'm not trying to excuse this guy for his actions. In fact, none of us know much at all, at this point. For all we know, he might be schizophenic and was suffering a psychotic break (although the fact that he planned all of this out so meticulously months in advance would tend to argue against that). But these mass killings are increasing in frequency, and we have the right to know if a class of drugs, that are handed out by general practitioners, without much oversight at all, as to their deleterious effects, are involved in these killings.

I don't give a shit what you put in YOUR body, but if it makes you more likely to go out and kill MY kid when they're simply watching a movie, I DO care, and I want to know, and I have a RIGHT to know.

[Texasgal]

80. Are you suggesting that

everyone who takes anti-depressants be on some roster that you can look at to see if you will be safe around them?


I don't give a shit what you put in YOUR body, but if it makes you more likely to go out and kill MY kid when they're simply watching a movie, I DO care, and I want to know, and I have a RIGHT to know.

[Th1onein]

83. Pretty much. Yeah, their doctor's roster. They need to be MONITORED CLOSELY.

VERY closely. Because if they have an adverse reaction, and experience homicidal ideation, they can take out any of us, at any time.

Right now, your family doctor can write you a script for these drugs, and all you've got is the drug insert to warn you. Don't YOU think that when you've got a class of drugs that's been associated with these kinds of crimes they need to be more strictly monitored?

[Texasgal]

93. Umm, don't doctors do that already?

I mean, my doc tells me what issues can arise from any medication he prescribes to me all of the time.

How do you know this isn't already being done?

Sorry, but my health and my doctor's relationship are MY business, not yours or anyone else's.

[riderinthestorm]

97. Th1onein doesn't believe that way. She believes women who have had abortions are murderers

and should be prosecuted.

She really DOES believe that your health isn't a private matter between you and your doctor.

[Th1onein]

131. I love it when people tell me what my beliefs are.

Gives me a real chuckle.

[riderinthestorm]

134. Because I have a few of those threads bookmarked where you say those things

Or you say that women who have an abortion have committed "homicide".

Have you changed your mind?

Here's just one example with your own words...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x251126#262558


You DO want to intervene in the private decisions between a doctor and a patient.

[Th1onein]

156. That's one hell of a stretch, riderinthestorm.

Because I am anti-abortion (and anti-death penalty, and anti-war--all for the same reason, by the way), nothing that I say about the dangers of any drug is worthwhile? Geez.

The fact that you would bring up my views on abortion in this scenario tells me that you have nothing else in your arsenal (such as facts and logic) to argue your point.

The facts are that these drugs are dangerous, that according to the labels on the drug inserts, themselves, they cause homicidal ideation. The facts are that these drugs are implicated in thousands of these types of killings, and those facts should be a red flag to you, and to the medical establishment. Simply pointing out these facts does not mean that I want to interfere in a doctor-patient relationship. What a crock.

[riderinthestorm]

159. No stretch at all, its analogous. You want to interfere in the private doctor/patient relationship

You say it upthread very clearly.

Texas girl asks you outright in post #80 "Are you suggesting that everyone who takes anti-depressants be on some roster that you can look at to see if you will be safe around them?"

And you reply in post #83 "Pretty much."

Its the same mindset that wants to prosecute women who have had abortions as having committed a homicide. Your pattern is pretty obvious imho.

[Th1onein]

166. Nope. Not at all the same thing.

Monitoring patients for adverse effects of these drugs has nothing to do with interfering in a doctor-patient relationship.

Like I said: one hell of a stretch there
_

[Th1onein]

128. No, many doctors DON'T

And, I'm not really sure if that would help in all cases, anyway. Andrea Yates had been on one of these drugs for months, and when she got her dosage changed, she went off the charts in psychosis and killed her children. There are a myriad of stories like this.

I'm sorry, but when your presciption meds cause you to shoot innocent people in a movie theatre, they become society's business.

[Texasgal]

146. I'd like some stats on that claim.

I work as a surgical nurse and have been an ER trauma bay nurse as well.

Please show me where Doctors and health care professionals are not warning their patients on different prescribed medications.

Show me. Back it up. Give me a link. Actually, give me LOTS of links.

I'm trying to remember, was it you that made the claim that dead bodies were floating in the streets in the aftermath of hurricane Rita that hit the Texas coast? I kind of remember that and thinking you were nuts! Which you were because your claim was FALSE.

I apologize if I am wrong.

Anyway, people like YOU scare me. I don't want your nose/ass in my medical treatment plan. Seriously, it's none of your business.

[Th1onein]

171. Lol! Yeah, right! They're really going to report that they aren't warning patients!

Last edited Fri Jul 27, 2012, 06:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Oh, that's rich!

Read down to the fourth paragraph in this report: http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=news&id=141290&cn=4

I believe that answers your assertion very well. If these patients aren't even being SEEN by their doctors, how in the world can they be monitored?

[Texasgal]

173. They have to be seen to get an RX!

And ummm, I work in the medical community. I know for a FACT that doctors and their co-medical staffs are giving patients information on prescribed medication. I see it every day, I DO it every day.

You are seriously off your rocker!

[Th1onein]

178. And they're monitoring them too, right?

"The investigators also found that less than one-third of people taking one antidepressant and less than half of those taking multiple antidepressants had seen a mental health professional in the past year."

And, by the way, I'm getting tired of the personal attacks. They don't belong in a civil discussion.

[Confusious]

111. Unbelievable

Maybe we could put all the people in SSRIs in a camp so you'll feel safe?

unbelievable.

[Th1onein]

132. I think they should just yank these drugs off the market.

Just that simple.

[Confusious]

137. Your compassion

and ignorance is overwhelming.

I'm on those drugs. I would rather die then go back to being depressed all the time.

99.9999 percent people who take those drugs don't harm anyone. It helps a lot of people. A few people happen to have taken the medication, less then one percent of one percent, and done some bad things, and you want to condem a large minority of the population to suffer.

Without any proof of anything. Just your own ignorant opinion.

the compassion part was

[Th1onein]

157. I am a biomedical researcher; far from ignorant

And far from lacking compassion. Since there is little evidence that these drugs have a specific pharmalogical effect relative to placebo [JAMA. 2010;303(1):47-53.], and have now been linked to drug-induced akathesia-related homicides [Pharm and Pers Medicine. 2011;2011(4):65-81.], I think it's time to sound the alert.

[Confusious]

175. Was I suppose to be impressed?

I worked for a PHD, and with multiple people who had PHDs and Masters.

They could be ignorant in certain areas, just as much as the next person.

You have no idea whether or not these massacres where caused by a person taking antidepressants, but seem to want to claim that there's a huge relationship, when I have show you a list showing that quite a few happened before they ever came out, and more then quite a few happened without any drugs at all.

The only relationship has been that they were male and disaffected.

Despite the lack of evidence, and much evidence showing that these classes of drugs help more people, and no clear evidence showing harm, or very very very little harm, you would like to ban them.

That makes you lacking in compassion and ignorant in my book.

[Th1onein]

177. I could care less what you think of me, or of my credentials. But YOU were the one who was throwing

around the word "ignorant." Not I.

I am familiar with and have studied these drugs much more than you have ever even given thought to. These drugs have been involved in MOST of the recent school shootings, as well as many other rampages, homicides, etc. in recent years. There IS a relationship; and there IS research showing a causal relationship between these drugs and violence. Here's just one review of the evidence. (You notice how they say that the violence is CAUSED by these drugs?) "Suicidality, violence and mania caused by selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs): A review" International Journal of Risk & Safety in Medicine 16 (2003/2004) 31-49.

NO ONE is saying that they don't help a good many people. No one is disputing that. The problem is that about 4% of people who take them have very BAD reactions to them, and when they have these terrible reactions, they create terrible tragedies in many cases.

Listen, I have not ONE time put you down personally, or called you a name. Would you mind not doing that to me? I'm trying to have a real discussion about the dangers of these drugs, and it really is counterproductive when you do that. If your objective is simply to beat up someone, why bother discussing this at all?

[nadinbrzezinski]

151. No, what these drugs need to have

is the same kind of limits they have in Europe, oh wait, the FDA also recommends against use of SSRIs in young people

What Did the FDA Review Find?

In the FDA review, no completed suicides occurred among nearly 2,200 children treated with SSRI medications. However, about 4 percent of those taking SSRI medications experienced suicidal thinking or behavior, including actual suicide attempts—twice the rate of those taking placebo, or sugar pills.

In response, the FDA adopted a "black box" label warning indicating that antidepressants may increase the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in some children and adolescents with MDD. A black-box warning is the most serious type of warning in prescription drug labeling.

The warning also notes that children and adolescents taking SSRI medications should be closely monitored for any worsening in depression, emergence of suicidal thinking or behavior, or unusual changes in behavior, such as sleeplessness, agitation, or withdrawal from normal social situations. Close monitoring is especially important during the first four weeks of treatment. SSRI medications usually have few side effects in children and adolescents, but for unknown reasons, they may trigger agitation and abnormal behavior in certain individuals.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-mental-health/antidepressant-medications-for-children-and-adolescents-information-for-parents-and-caregivers.shtml

Now while FOUR PERCENT might sound excessive to you, for the rest of the class it is ok. You realize that without the SSRIs there are more than a few people who would COMMIT suicide and do other stuff? In fact, the numbers would be higher. I guess you would prefer people to suffer lives of incredible pain and detachment, than have the chance to have a life, for real, and contribute to society.

So what other meds should we remove from the market?

This is purely a cost\benefit analysis. Now if (and it happens) Holmes was taking them, we can talk about liabilities... indeed we can. But chances are he wasn't... even if to my mind, BUT I WILL WAIT for the competency hearing to determine if I am right or not, he is probably schizophrenic, the pattern just FITS... but why I prefer for a PROFESSIONAL to tell me if I am correct on this, or not.

[easttexaslefty]

130. Oh for christs sake.

[Tom Ripley]

154. I experienced suicidal and homicidal ideation while undergoing chemotherapy

should cancer and hepatitis patients also be monitored closely?

I understand your concern, but this is not the way to deal with it.

[Confusious]

176. I have semi-homicidal thoughts

While sitting next to people in traffic with big boom boxes going thump thump thump

I would love to kill the electrical system in their car.

Burn it so it never rises again.

[longship]

34. An improper assumption, AFAIK

This is how bull shit starts.

He was enrolled in neurology at a medical school. Of course, he would know psychiatrist profs.

Okham's razor says he probably wasn't "seeing" a psychiatrist. It slices off the absurd assumption as you should also, until you have confirming evidence to counter the most likely solution.

Do not assume. You make an ASS out of U or ME.

[patrice]

39. Anyone seeing these pictures comparing Holmes some time pre-orange hair & then post orange hair?

His nose looks different on the ones I saw, but who knows who did what to those photos.

Also the ears closer to the head in pre-orange hair photo.

I think we're seeing somekind of attempt to imply a conspiracy of somesort. Anyone here see any of this stuff?

[BeHereNow]

41. The first question that ran through my mind, was "SSRI use?"

He would not need to be seeing a psychiatrist to be prescribed an SSRI.
I have the same question about whether a study has been done as far as how
many of the military related homicides and suicides were committed by people
being given SSRI drugs by the military doctors.

And no- I am NOT an anti-medication ranter.
I have personal experience with ADR to an SSRI medication and
have done extensive research on the unpredictability of SSRI drugs among
various populations.

Most cases are settled quietly between the pharma cartel and plaintiffs
who have successfully proved a link to their individual cases.

The UK banned the use of SSRI drugs for people under 18yo due to the
proven high correlation of ADRs in that population and SSRI medications.

The problem with SSRI drugs is that there is NO way to predict who may
have an ADR involving homicidal/suicidal ideations and I think there needs to
be more emphasis on monitoring every individual who is given an SSRI.

BHN

[blue neen]

44. Your thread title should be edited.

You are making a statement that Holmes was seeing a psychiatrist, and there is nothing linking that to be a fact. If it does become a fact, that would be a different story. Right now, you are making an assumption and posting it as truth.

Also, your question about whether he was taking an anti-depressant is presumptuous, and "push polling" in a certain way.

Could we not wait until actual reports with actual evidence are filed?

[Th1onein]

49. See Post #33, and as for the rest....

I very much disagree with you that my question about whether he was taking an antidepressant is presumptuous, and certainly not in any way associated with "push polling."

There are a plethora of mass shootings associated with these types of drugs, and the question is NOT being asked by our media. They didn't ask it in the Fort Hood killings, and they're not asking it now. It needs to be asked.

[blue neen]

51. Well, then we will disagree.

Until the actual facts and evidence come out, it is all speculation. Posting something that is not yet proven and asking leading questions are presumptuous, indeed.

[BeHereNow]

61. +1,000,000 It IS a question that needs to be asked.

The research is out there and the correlation is undeniable.
Trouble is, the question, as shown by some disruptors on this thread,
the question is immediately turned into some "Anti-medication" scientology based ideology,
and therefore easily dismissed.

Black and white, black and white- no grounds for discussion or debate on the
issue, DESPITE the medical facts.

Again- I am NOT anti medication- I am for responsible and accountable healthcare.

I depend on medication, as do many of my family members.

You ask a FAIR and REASONABLE question- perhaps easily dismissed because
people want to focus on your source rather than the issue-
Perhaps if you were to re title your thread, we could get to the question about whether
SSRIs were involved.

Again, he need not be seeing a psychiatrist to obtain a prescription for an SSRI drug,
which time and again have been linked to these sort of tragedies.

No one talks about it- and if you dare, the "OH, you're a scientologist!" crowd appears
to sway the focus of the discussion. It is a discussion that needs to happen.

Wonder how much the pharma cartel pays the disruptors every time the question is asked...

BHN

[blue neen]

62. The irony in your post is impressive.

The questions can and will be asked when there is proof that Mr. Holmes was taking a medication and what that medication was.

SSRI's are NOT the only psychiatric drugs that are capable of causing adverse drug reactions. First a statement is made that the shooter was seeing a psychiatrist--not proven. Then a question was asked whether he could have made been taking an anti-depressant--not proven. Now the assumption is that the anti-depressant was an SSRI--again, not proven.

I also am for responsible and accountable healthcare. In addition, I am for responsible and accountable FACTS.

Now, you are calling the people who are questioning the wisdom of such a thread disruptors? Hmm.

[BeHereNow]

70. Let's think critically for a moment-

"The questions can and will be asked when there is proof that Mr. Holmes was taking a medication and what that medication was."

It took years for the fact that SSRI drugs were involved in many tragedies akin to this one to come to light


"SSRI's are NOT the only psychiatric drugs that are capable of causing adverse drug reactions. First a statement is made that the shooter was seeing a psychiatrist--not proven. Then a question was asked whether he could have made been taking an anti-depressant--not proven. Now the assumption is that the anti-depressant was an SSRI--again, not proven."

SSRI drugs are the ones most commonly associated with homicidal/suicidal ideation. FACT. Therefore, a reasonable question.
All drugs can result in ADR. SSRI are the major ones associated with this type of ideation. It is not necessary to see a psychiatrist to be given a prescription for an SSRI drug- I find it unfortunate that the question was framed within an unsubstantiated story- but I find the question more important than the frame within which it was asked.

I also am for responsible and accountable healthcare. In addition, I am for responsible and accountable FACTS.

Facts are this: Suicidal/homicidal reactions are rare, but do occur with SSRI drugs.
Don't shoot the messenger for bringing the FACT up.



"Now, you are calling the people who are questioning the wisdom of such a thread disruptors? Hmm."

Again, I find the framework in which the question was asked unfortunate. However, people who dismiss the question
or immediately call the respondents "scientologists," are not capable of looking beyond the context into the real issue-
was the person under the influence of a drug known to be related to this type of ADR?"

Please, do expound on what is ironic about my responses.

BHN

[Th1onein]

76. if the media is not asking the question, then who is going to ask it?

We still have no one, no major media source, who has even posed the question, in regard to the Fort Hood shooter, who was a psychiatrist.

And it does NOT matter whether he was seeing a psychiatrist or not. It does make it more of a probability that he was on one of the antidepressants if he WAS seeing a psychiatrist, but he could get them from his general practicioner, as well.

These drugs were involved in the Andrea Yates case, where she drowned her five children in the family bathtub; they were involved in the Columbine shootings; in the Amity schoolhouse shootings, in the Atlanta day trader shootings....case after case after case of people killing their families, their co-workers, complete strangers.

This question is the first question that comes to MANY people's minds when a mass killing happens these days and there is a reason for that. Why isn't our major media asking this question? It NEEDS to be asked.

[Union Scribe]

46. Oh cool, Scientology Underground.

Stupid ass thread.

[BeHereNow]

47. Disruptive Flame bait much?

NO one on this thread has mentioned Scientology, or spoken against medication.
So your contribution is based in WHAT, exactly?

BHN

[backscatter712]

60. The OP could be interpreted as an insinuation that people with mental illness...

who are taking antidepressants are all latent psycho-killers...

Bit of a broad brush if you ask me.

[Posteritatis]

64. And DU's attitude towards mental illness hasn't really progressed past the 1950s or 1960s. (nt)

[BeHereNow]

71. Have you actually READ my posts on the matter, or did you just feel like chiming in?

You will find NO ONE on DU more PRO medication or mental health on this forum than me.
Your response to BackScatter is inappropriate if put in CONTEXT to the post you flippantly replied to.

Please, do take the time to read what you are responding to.

BHN

[Posteritatis]

72. I'm (accurately) describing the forum in general, not you

But feel free to snap away regardless. If you're as pro mental health as you claim the shitty, shitty attitude this place likes to have on mental health issues should be clear as day, and you wouldn't be lecturing people for stating that it exists.

[BeHereNow]

73. Why don't you help us change it?

Respectfully,
BHN

[BeHereNow]

68. Not a broad brush at all- SSRI drugs have been linked to MANY of these tragedies.

As a person who deals daily with a family member, I am NOT anti medication.
The issue at hand is the fact is this:
A small percentage of the population who are given SSRI drugs experience ADRs to the medications.
I AM ONE SUCH PERSON.

I know the research and the numerous cases linked to SSRI ADRs.

The OP poses a question worthy of examination.
Especially if public awareness of the problem is brought to light and changes the
way SSRI recipients are monitored.

It may, one day, help prevent further tragedies.

BHN

[loyalsister]

109. Which came first?

The drug or the disorder that prompted medical intervention? Many people who take SSRIs have been there done that when it comes to suicidal ideation.
That is not to say that those symptoms are not exacerbated. But, the idea that SSRIs have been the singular cause of these events ignores a lot of information.

[BeHereNow]

122. That's the good news about the now REQUIRED Black box labels.

They warn that in certain individuals, the medication MAY increase suicidal/homicidal thoughts;
in other words, worsen the condition they are being used to treat.

It happened to me and is documented with the manufacturer.

BHN

[loyalsister]

124. Ageed

I think that the language is important, too. Suicide and homicide are linked more closely than people understand. The difference being the direction of anger.

I am talking about people who consciously make these decisions with a disregard for their own lives and futures.
Not those who kill in a rage or for sense of personal gain. Be it a financial motive or one to feed their twisted minds.

[Th1onein]

78. Bull.

These drugs are a common factor in these types of killings. NO ONE said that all the people who take them are psycho-killers.

[HappyMe]

108. You know this because

you are a scientist and have studied this for years, right?

[BeHereNow]

121. I know this from personal experience.

And MY experience lead me to years of personal research and discussions with
my doctor-

There IS a reason these drugs now come with "Black-Box" labels/warnings.

You don't have to be a scientist to do some research, and no, not the Scientologist type of research,
rather medical journals written be physicians and scientists.

A VERY small population experiences ADR from SSRI drugs, but it DOES exist.
Been there, done that, am documented as a ADR for SSRI drugs and
must never take one again.
I take other things that work for me and begrudge NO one who benefits from SSRI drugs- MANY do.

I am fortunate to have a doctor who monitors ALL medications I am prescribed VERY closely.
Why does he do that?
Because he KNOWS the risks involved with ALL medication.
Now go do some research before you spout off about something you clearly know
nothing about.
BHN

[Confusious]

127. Bullshit yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

Quite a few happened before 1980, the first year of Paxil, the first SSRI.

If you want to look, I'm sure you'll find that less then, o, 1-5 percent list some sort of drug.

Most were just disaffected people.

[Th1onein]

135. Back atcha!

From the site that you, yourself, give: "Not included are school massacres, workplace killings, hate crimes or familicides, which form their own categories."

If you look at JUST school massacres, you get only 11 out of the 61, that were committed before 1980.
If you look at workplace killings, you get only 13 out of 40 that were committed before 1980.

Nevertheless, this is NOT a good way to tell which ones were associated with the use of these drugs. I'm sure you know that. The website that you linked to doesn't give any types of drugs involved in any of the killings, by the way.

[Confusious]

136. One massacre is pretty much the same as any other

people die, so I don't really see any difference whether its a school or not. The aurora massacre wasn't a school.

If you looked, you'd probably find that all relevant information was included, and if it doesn't say anything about drugs, then there weren't any.

You're still full of shit.

[Th1onein]

170. Confusious, is it necessary to say "You're still full of shit"?

Is that REALLY a good way to discuss this topic, or any other? Come on, let's at least be civil, and not throw around personal attacks.

[Tom Ripley]

155. From that data, it appears that men, not medication, is the common factor in rampage killings

[fascisthunter]

140. good point, but, I do not think that was the intent

[HiPointDem]

153. could be, if the person reads his own thoughts into what the op wrote.

the op asks if holmes was on anti-depressants. that's all.

[blue neen]

48. Oh, you're just being glib!

[BeHereNow]

55. Wow, you too have such quality contributions to make to this thread.

Thank you, not.
BHN

[blue neen]

57. Sorry to disappoint you.

I kind of like what I had to say in disputing the OP...but, if you don't, that's fine.

How could any discussion of adverse reactions to a class of drugs take place without proof that there was a drug and what the specific name of that drug is?

Time will give us those answers so that we no one will have to continue making false statements (that just prove to be a distraction).

[Posteritatis]

65. Ouch. Not that I disagree, but ... ouch. (nt)

[SidDithers]

58. You should edit your OP...nt

Sid

[Odin2005]

77. Oh great, here come the hordes of anti-SSRI nuts...

[get the red out]

91. Sigh, I know.....

[Comrade_McKenzie]

81. This needs to be sent to Creative Speculation or locked. nt

[Th1onein]

85. I just changed the subject line of the post.

I think that will serve the purpose. Don't you?

[upaloopa]

88. It should be locked if you ask me. Speaking as someone who takes meds everyday this really

makes me mad.

If you are not a professional you should say that you think something not you know something.

Millions of people are helped everyday by meds, some who might just kill if they didn't.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

89. I, too, take SSRIs. nt

[arely staircase]

99. he was taking effexor but then his doctor switched him to paxil. nt

[Cleita]

101. Or, maybe he was on drugs to control his mental

problems and stopped taking them.

[get the red out]

110. Winning comment!!!!

In my opinion, this is the most likely scenario, so long as we are engaging in a conjecture thread anyway.

[BeHereNow]

133. That is a really good point- patients are warned about going cold turkey-

for the very reasons discussed in this thread.

Well, at least some are discussing, others are simply knee jerking without
reading context of all the comments.

BHN

[Alduin]

104. Are you saying people on antidepressants are more likely to shoot up movie theaters?

[Confusious]

138. Yep.

Evidence is up thread.

[Alduin]

164. I'm on antidepressants.

Does that mean I'm going to start shooting in public places?

[Confusious]

167. So am I

According to the OP, it's only a matter of time before we both are.

[Iggo]

129. Done with this.

[Strelnikov_]

152. Did Holmes have easy access to guns?

Confirmed

[MineralMan]

160. I don't know. You do not know. Nobody knows, unless they

know Holmes or Holmes has told them. This is pure speculation, and not worth the time of day.

If he was, we will find out during the trial. If not, we'll find that out. There is absolutely no point in speculating on this.

[4th law of robotics]

165. Well he was smiling in his mug-shot

so I guessed they worked.

[Romulox]

169. I had a brief, and extremely negative experience when I tried Zyban (SSRI) to quit smoking.

I missed a dose one day and found myself shouting at the top of my lungs at a young lady who had informed me that I didn't have the proper credentials to get a library card.

I'd never been so ashamed of myself in my life! Also, I'd never felt so alien to myself in my life--I didn't recognize me, for that moment.

Just an anecdote...