Who believes it was mere coincidence that the Con, Flynn and other ReTHUGs were shouting lock her up

[malaise]

at the same time Russians were paying to have a cage with an actor posing as Hillary in prison garb on a flatbed truck (as the indictments show). Add to that the plethora of investigations of Hillary by the ReTHUG House of Representatives.

The unraveling of the conspiracy has begun. Let the real LOCK THEM UP chants begin. Go Mueller!

[spanone]

1. K&R...

[katmondoo]

2. I believe a lot of Trumps ideas came from Russia

Trump was controlled, his campaigned messages were controlled, his actions were controlled.

[yardwork]

13. His actions are controlled. Ongoing.

[FM123]

41. I believe you are right about his ideas coming from Russia - Trumpy is hardly an original thinker.

(Scratch that, or should I say a thinker)

[RandomAccess]

72. And still do

IMO

[bronxiteforever]

3. Brilliant points! I remember thinking of the Stalinist show trials

When Flynn was shouting lock her up. It had the echo of that history to me. I thought it was so anti American that they could never win. Russia didn’t even cross my mind until later because it was unthinkable to me. Boy was I wrong about that threat.

[malaise]

4. Yep -particularly since there is evidence of Flynn with Putin

I knew they stole it - never had any doubt but then I've seen more than a few stolen elections in my lifetime.

[cyclonefence]

5. You've opened an interesting can of worms here

I wonder if--since we now know for sure there were contacts between Russian operatives and Trump campaign staff--the Russians had begun to assure Trump's people that they had dirt on Hillary that would indeed get her put in jail. Which would also explain the meeting with Don Jr.'s not raising red flags among the Trump organization--this was a payoff that was expected from long before, during the campaign.

[malaise]

7. The Guardian has a good report

In August 2016, Russian operatives communicated with Trump campaign staff in Florida through their “@donaldtrump.com” email addresses to coordinate a series of pro-Trump rallies in the state, according to Mueller, and then bought advertisements on social media to promote the events.

At one rally in West Palm Beach, a Russian operative is even alleged to have paid Americans to build a cage on a flatbed truck and to have an actor posing as Clinton in a prison uniform stand inside.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/16/robert-mueller-russians-charged-election

[dalton99a]

17. +1

[orangecrush]

27. There it is

I'm sure Mueller has evidence as well.

[malaise]

28. You betcha

[PJMcK]

6. Flynn is the lynchpin

Flynn copped a plea of one count of lying to the FBI. This deal was struck when Robert Mueller had tremendous evidence against Flynn and his son; one report that I recall stated that they could have faced the death penalty for treason and that Flynn broke into tears when told his son was culpable.

If Mr. Mueller's evidence was that powerful, there's only one reason why he would accept that relatively minor plea: It's because Flynn will be a key witness to the connection between the Russians and the Trump campaign.

Flynn could end up being a poster boy for Democratic candidates in the future. The political ads write themselves!

[malaise]

8. +1,000

[HAB911]

10. +++++++++++

[Progressive dog]

9. Putin and Trump began planning at

the pageant in Moscow. Putin moved into action soon after. The GOP campaign themes exactly aligned with the Russian propaganda. It's not a coincidence.

[malaise]

11. +1,000

[Farmer-Rick]

31. That tweet Trump put out about how the Russians started

Psy ops and manipulation in the US long before Trumps actual campaign started is a tell. He always claims he didn't do what he really does.

It's pretty obvious he met and planned with Putin at the pageant. The rest is history.

[tblue37]

55. Seth Abramson details that process, from the 2013 pageant onward, on his Twitter. nt

[RandomAccess]

74. Here's some info -

22:12 11/23/2017
BREAKING: Konstantin Rykov and Artem Kylushin were partying together in Moscow on election night 2016. Kylushin met Trump in June 2013, November 2013, and attended a Trump speech in Iowa 2015. Rykov boasted about working with hackers, WikiLeaks and Cambridge Analytica.

Link to tweet

this is a pretty good one:
- Seth Abramson @SethAbramson
(THREAD) BREAKING: Allegations Trump spoke to Putin via speakerphone at the 2013 Miss Universe pageant, discussing both his plan to run for president and his desire to see Trump Tower Moscow built with Putin's blessing—implying a quid pro quo—are 90% confirmed. Please read/share.
1:24 AM - Nov 23, 2017

Link to tweet

[PatSeg]

64. And remember that Trump server

that a Russian bank communicated with. The story came out a couple of times and then went away, but it was really odd.

[meadowlander]

88. Alfa Bank. It's in the Steele dossier

albeit misspelled.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/16/1681192/-Could-Alfa-Bank-Servers-Be-the-Link-Between-Trump-Campaign-and-Kremlin

[PatSeg]

90. Yes

Supposedly it just appeared that Alfa Bank was checking the server's address (many times) and that was also odd. There have been so many stories the past year or so, it is hard to keep track of them.

[BigmanPigman]

12. The Russians were successful in sowing hatred between Americans

using racism, hate of liberals, pro guns, hatred of Muslims, etc to divide the country. The "deplorable" ate up all the lies and anti-liberal propaganda. This is a long and good article...worth the read. They hate us and they have for decades and will continue to do so since it is who they are now.
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/insider-explains-rural-christian-white-america-dark-terrifying-underbelly/

[Hortensis]

46. I think this and the OP have it backwards. Russia AUGMENTED

political disagreements already present into deep divisions.

For instance, Russia didn't create Jill Stein's messages that Hillary was a "corporatist" OR that state Democratic parties were stealing primary races for Hillary. Russia just helped underfunded secondary candidates by spreading their chosen lies to far more people, and of course layered them much thicker.

In the general election, Russia mostly just did the same. Like that cage thing. Trumpsters had been in love with the Hillary in prison idea for at least a couple decades. So Russia gave them caged Hillary pictures to email by many millions around the nation.

[CrispyQ]

53. Good commentary.

What I understand is that rural Christian white Americans are entrenched in fundamentalist belief systems; don’t trust people outside their tribe; have been force-fed a diet of misinformation and lies for decades; are unwilling to understand their own situations; and truly believe whites are superior to all races. No amount of understanding is going to change these things or what they believe. No amount of niceties will get them to be introspective. No economic policy put forth by someone outside their tribe is going to be listened to no matter how beneficial it would be for them. I understand rural Christian white America all too well. I understand their fears are based on myths and lies. I understand they feel left behind by a world they don’t understand and don’t really care to. They are willing to vote against their own interests if they can be convinced it will make sure minorities are harmed more. Their Christian beliefs and morals are only extended to fellow white Christians. They are the problem with progress and always will be, because their belief systems are constructed against it.

The problem isn’t a lack of understanding by coastal elites. The problem is a lack of understanding of why rural Christian white America believes, votes, behaves the ways it does by rural Christian white America.

I think the author is correct that these types have to experience something deeply personal before they open their minds to ideas that are different than what they've been taught. Their hatred for "libtards" & socialism is stunning.

[Cracklin Charlie]

14. I dont even believe its a coincidence

That they spent a whole summer saying Clinton was old, sick, and feeble (lookin at you, Giuliani) and then suddenly candidate Clinton became ill and collapsed (sort of) at a very public 9/11 memorial ceremony.

I don’t trust these damn people. To repeat:

Go Mueller!

[malaise]

19. Interesting

Meanwhile it is the Con who is old, feeble and sick

[dalton99a]

39. Yep. A stupid, lazy, useless, demented sick fuck with zero stamina.

[heaven05]

15. this ability

By the Russians to fan the flames of hate and make ameriKKKan racism a key campaign strategy of the GOP, by exploiting the "deplorables" in their ignorance and willful stupidity shows just how openly vulnerable our society/culture is to outside manipulation of its inability to truly be all inclusive and equal after 410 years plus of settlement since Jamestown.

The choice we got for potus makes me now know, racism as a cultural NORM will NEVER be hidden again. AmeriKKKa has shown the world it's true underbelly. We are not respected anymore, just feared because hair Hitler wants a military parade in his honor.

[malaise]

20. I think we give ReTHUGs a pass by simply blaming the Russians

ReTHUGs are a big part of this mess and their use of racism as a campaign strategy predates Russian involvement.

[Merlot]

42. That's the downside of this - repubs may walk

Now that Muellers established the russians were involved in trumpfts campaign, hopefully his next move will be to show the clear connection. Even so, repubs will try their best to spin it as a russian issue.

[PatSeg]

67. This is true

The Russians came in and used the strategies that Republicans had already developed and used for the past three decades. The Russians really brought nothing new to the game, they just enhanced and amplified what was already there. They are masters at this sort of thing, which is why they have been so successful all over the world.

[malaise]

68. You nailed it

They are treasonous scumbags

[Gabi Hayes]

75. Think Gingrich, Luntz. Control of language. They started this over 20 years ago

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4443.htm

Language: A Key Mechanism of Control

Newt Gingrich's 1996 GOPAC memo

As you know, one of the key points in the GOPAC tapes is that "language matters." In the video "We are a Majority," Language is listed as a key mechanism of control used by a majority party, along with Agenda, Rules, Attitude and Learning. As the tapes have been used in training sessions across the country and mailed to candidates we have heard a plaintive plea: "I wish I could speak like Newt."

That takes years of practice. But, we believe that you could have a significant impact on your campaign and the way you communicate if we help a little. That is why we have created this list of words and phrases.

This list is prepared so that you might have a directory of words to use in writing literature and mail, in preparing speeches, and in producing electronic media. The words and phrases are powerful. Read them. Memorize as many as possible. And remember that like any tool, these words will not help if they are not used.

While the list could be the size of the latest "College Edition" dictionary, we have attempted to keep it small enough to be readily useful yet large enough to be broadly functional. The list is divided into two sections: Optimistic Positive Governing words and phrases to help describe your vision for the future of your community (your message) and Contrasting words to help you clearly define the policies and record of your opponent and the Democratic party.

Please let us know if you have any other suggestions or additions. We would also like to know how you use the list. Call us at GOPAC or write with your suggestions and comments. We may include them in the next tape mailing so that others can benefit from your knowledge and experience.

These asshole openly bragged about driving all over the place while campaigning, listening to the audio tapes made that were based on this propaganda. It’s one of the main reasons we are here today

The media willingly played along, culminating in the final destruction of Hillary two years ago

[PatSeg]

76. Oh yes

The party became the party of scripted talking points, so that eventually they all sounded like the same person. In congress, they even get prepared talking points from leadership and everyone is expected to speak in one voice. They rarely deviate from their scripts, though occasionally someone might get creative and change a few words to sound more authentic.

Originality and independence in the republican party is unheard of. Everyone is expected to be a team player at all times.

[Gabi Hayes]

77. Exactly! How I loathe these tiny Goebbels clones

Is it too late to reverse the course set in motion by the political marketeers?

All they’ve done is employ basic Bernaysian propaganda techniques from 100 years ago


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2005/02/stephen-bender/karl-rove-the-spectre-of-freudsnephew/

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country… We are governed, our minds molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized… "

So opens Propaganda (1928), one of several strikingly frank analyses of western social psychology written by Edward Bernays. This nephew of Sigmund Freud founded the public relations industry in the United States.

Mr. Bernays lived a fascinating life. He first got involved in high stakes politics when he "warmed up" the dour Calvin Coolidge by arranging the first presidential celebrity photo op in 1928. For the private sector, Bernays engineered a most notorious publicity stunt for the American Tobacco Company, by single-handedly neutralizing the taboo against women smoking in public. He organized a "Torches of Freedom" march down Broadway by ten smoking debutantes during the 1929 Easter Parade. With the help of feminists – some of whom understood the "right to smoke" as libratory – Bernays expertly publicized this spectacle, thus setting in motion the expected stir on op-ed pages across the land.

For Bernays, truth in public affairs did not exist per se. Rather, truth was the product of the "public relations counsel" forging prevailing "public opinion." It should be said that he readily recognized the ethical implications of his work, as witnessed in his later anti-smoking advocacy, after the dangers of cigarettes became known in the late-1950s. He could also be, in his own curious way, a humanitarian – as reflected in his work promoting the NAACP and anti-syphilis public education.

For Bernays, however, the necessity of controlling the public mind was a crucially important matter confronting the better element, a group in which he clearly included himself. In his first work, the hugely influential Crystallizing Public Opinion (1923), Bernays noted that the establishment of public education and the gradual extension of the right to vote caused consternation among western elites. The use of public relations techniques, then, was a way for the minority to "so mold the mind of the masses that they will throw their newly gained strength in the desired direction."

[PatSeg]

86. That is fascinating

I'd never heard of Edward Bernays.

[Gabi Hayes]

87. Been linking that Bender article for more than ten years

It rarely gets a response

Pugs are SO far ahead

Rove STUDIED Goebbels

These freaks are Dangerous beyond imagining

John Mitchell was quoted by Hunter Thompson as saying that “This country is swinging so far to the right that people won’t recognize it anymore”.....very close to that

I harbor no illusions as to what’s going down, where the trajectory into corporate fascism is heading

[PatSeg]

89. So

was Mitchell bragging?

I've noticed with republican politicians, it is all about winning at any cost. The ends justify the means and losing is not an option. Sadly, it would seem that compromise has become synonymous with losing.

[malaise]

79. Well said

[Gabi Hayes]

83. Hey! Thx, but I didnt say much.....just another C&P job

When does it end?

[Gabi Hayes]

85. OK.....this is necessary

.

Jimmy Page AND Jeff Beck!

[heaven05]

78. true

AMERIKKKA racism predates every significant event in ameriKKKan culture-society? Growing up part time in northern Georgia in the 50's-60's I did realize that just didn't, as a child understand the palpable hate of southen racists. The fact that the Russians exploited millions of people full of ignorance, wilful stupidity and racial hate is a new strategy by the Russians and yes the GOP is guilty of allowing this to become a campaign strategy. No problem with that assessment

[malaise]

80. Yep

[Chalco]

16. It's called projection.

Whenever Drumpf accuses someone else of something it means he's doing the behavior/crime himself. He projects it
onto someone else for distraction.

[malaise]

18. +1,000

I describe it as inversion of (his) reality.

[Grammy23]

29. The things spoken directly from the stage by tRump and others during the campaign

Perfectly align with the Russian work going on at Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and other social media sites. It really makes it hard to believe there was no co-ordination between the campaign and the Russians to present a unified message. On the one hand you have a paid actor dressed as Hillary behind bars and on the other you have a guy on stage yelling Lock Her Up. Tell me that was a coincidence.

Just wait until more indictments come down. I hope our eyes don’t pop out. This sh*t’s gettin’ real, folks.

[malaise]

30. Well said Grammy23

This sh*t’s gettin’ real, folks.

[Cracklin Charlie]

44. Every accusation is a confession. nt

[tomp]

21. the real question is the constitution.

assuming collusion and russian impact on the election, which i believe at this point is a foregone conclusion, what do we do about the presidency? the constitution has no provision for theft of election. However, it seems obvious that Clinton should be president. Gore and Kerry should also have been president. Our elections are not secure and there is no constitutional remedy even if fraud is discovered.

Our constitution needs to provide for a total "undo" of every change enacted by trump and congress since trumps accession.

[malaise]

22. Agreed

[Farmer-Rick]

35. We need an amendment to the constitution to allow for a recall vote

But it probably will never happen.

[Grammy23]

40. It is clear that the framers of the Constitution never envisioned the scenario we are facing.

They never in a million years thought that the likes of tRump would come along to undermine everything they argued and wrangled about for months. So here we are in a situation the Constitution does not address. And it cannot be remedied by taking tRump out and replaced with Pence. The whole tRump administration is tainted, toxic and corrupt. They have to go, but we struggle with how to have an orderly transition of power.

Now that we know such a thing can and did happen, a revision in the Constitution needs to happen, ASAP. Amendment, revision, whatever you want to call it, this needs to be done. The arguing, debating and wrestling will take longer than the original writing of the Constitution, but let it be done. tRump with his Russia conspirators are undermining everything we hold dear. The longer we wait, the more damage that is done.

[Merlot]

45. Last thing you want to do is revise the constitution ASAP in a crisis

[Grammy23]

49. Given the amount of time it will take,

I mean we should start the process of revision. Not do it in a hurry. Oh, hell no! But get going on it. I suspect it will take years to find a remedy that is palatable. I might even be dead and in the grave before that happens.

[kurtcagle]

73. Would be better as an amendment

You open the constitution up to revision in today's environment, the result will be all out civil war. We're on the edge as it stands.

I think the best amendment you could make would do three things -

1) abolish the electoral college, making the president elected by popular vote,
2) in the event of two candidates getting votes within 0.1% from the total votes cast, a runoff election will be held.
3) In the event that half of all states raise questions about the valididity of an election's results, the Supreme Court will be empowered to call for a new election, ruling the previous election (for all Federal elected positions) null and void.

The first by itself would have kept Trump from being elected, the second would have made Bush Jr's election unlikely, the third would provide a mechanism for redress in the event that an election was won through subversion.

[Grammy23]

84. I used the word revision, not meaning re-written.

Rather, as you said, amended. Constitutional scholars need to study the issues and lots of rational heads need to work through this. Your ideas pretty much cover the known flaws in the system. Others who have studied this matter may know more.

Regardless of semantics, the problems need to be addressed. The elections over the past decade and a half are the symptoms of a system not functioning properly. In spite of the fact that some people believe our constitution was handed down on Stone Tablets, times have changed. Our country has changed (indeed, the world has changed) and the Constitution needs to serve the best interests of its people.

[Wounded Bear]

23. They project their own sins on others as a matter of course...

They knew they were breaking the law. The chants were projection and deflection.

"We're the good guys here, lock them up!"

[malaise]

25. True but it was a team operation

a grand conspiracy

[Codeine]

24. Or when it was chanted by Bernie supporters

who just happened to start chanting as a “Hillary for Prison” billboard truck rolled by their protest. . .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/25/lock-her-up-sanders-trump-clinton-chant

[malaise]

26. Interesting

but do we know if they were really Bernie supporters?

[saidsimplesimon]

34. It is sad that

some are commenting with old, yet familiar attempts to discredit the honorable Senator Sanders and those who support his message.

[Codeine]

37. Indictments speak louder than words. nt

[R B Garr]

43. What is sad is that there are now criminal indictments proving

how Hillary was abused, but we see old yet familiar attempts to make Sanders the sympathetic figure. Sad.

[saidsimplesimon]

52. Please,

imo, we fall into the ruskie/rump trap when we point fingers at fellow Democrats and like minded Republicans or independents.

[R B Garr]

59. Still no concern about the actual criminal indictments.

They spell out who was pointing fingers at whom and who benefitted from it.

It’s probably going to be an ongoing conversation for a while. It’s unprecedented.

[PatSeg]

69. That's just it

Looking back at the primaries, we know now that Russia was interfering and probably infiltrated the Bernie campaign as well. That behavior did not reflect Bernie's campaign. I think now that some of things that I disliked about a few Bernie supporters, were really the actions of Russians or bots.

[jodymarie aimee]

32. Mal

you are on fire the last couple days....well done..

[malaise]

33. All of DU is on fire and with good cause

LOCK THEM UP!

[CCExile]

36. When Democrats return to power

we need to find some ways to actually punish elected officials who knowingly lie to the American public. We can't, and probably shouldn't, apply the same to private citizens (although if I were god/emperor, I would institute Sulla's proscription for rightwing radio and television personalities, executives, and employees). We need to somehow show that we not only do not want the kind of government we have now, but also that we will stomp on public officialsand their supporters who will lie to us to stay in power and rob us blind.

[malaise]

38. Americans will have to sort this out

The system needs more protection from greedy, treasonous scumbags.

[Ahpook]

47. They always self project

If they are blaming someone else of a crime you know damn well they are doing it.

Every single time!

[saidsimplesimon]

48. AM Joy

She has two of my favourite guests commenting on the ruskie thingie, Jill Wine-Banks and Malcolm Nance. "Truth to Power" from both

[malaise]

50. Watching

I try not to miss AM Joy - great program

[gademocrat7]

51. A deep and wide conspiracy.

The rethugs are treason weasels. Justice will prevail.

[malaise]

54. Justice will prevail

Agreed

[H2O Man]

56. Roger Stone?

Recommended.

[malaise]

58. Very possible

[H2O Man]

61. Very likely.

The floodgates opened yesterday. There is a lot that will be spilling out soon.

[malaise]

62. I can't wait

seriously.

We always knew the system would expose them.

[saidsimplesimon]

57. How about the attacks

that turned DU dark for a month prior to the election? There were other blogs that faced the same hack attack. Was it the Russians or rump operatives who did the deed?

[malaise]

60. When we get the conspiracy indictments

we'll discover that they are one and the same

[saidsimplesimon]

65. I think you are correct.

[ffr]

63. Depends on the timing. If the Russians came up with it before, then that's one thing

But no matter. Conservatives didn't stop it then and they're making sure the Russians can do it again in future elections too.

Conservatives are TRAITORS!

[malaise]

70. Isn't this the timing that matters?

Dec. 10, 2015: Michael Flynn travels to Russia; meets with President Vladimir Putin
July 18-21 2016: Michael Flynn Chants lock her up

http://time.com/5044847/michael-flynn-hillary-clinton-republican-convention-lock-her-up/

[ffr]

71. With all due respect. We know Flynn played a part in the messenging.

What I was referring to was the timing of the message as it related to the Russian sponsored anti-Hillary rallies.

It's one thing for them to play on the lock her up message, if Flynn originated it and the Russian sponsored rallies were planned after. It's even more damning, as you're point out, if the Russian anti-Hillary "lock her up" rallies came before Flynn's rally. It would indicate Flynn and probably many more conservatives had a hand in conspiring with the Russian messenging campaign all along.

[pwb]

66. Whenever a republican says look over here? Look over there.

The opposite of what they say is normally true! To me anyway.

[Gothmog]

81. Russians paid for a Hillary-in-a-cage float

[malaise]

82. LOCK THEM UP!

Now