The new charges against Manafort seek asset forfeiture

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

A superseding indictment issued this afternoon. Paragraph 48 through the end of the document. Mueller is seeking forfeiture of his house in Brooklyn, his home in Arlington, VA, his house in the Hamptons, his life insurance policy and his bank accounts in the U.S.. Ouch. Maybe Trump will buy him new stuff. This is turning up the legal heat from warm to broil.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1038741/download

[Fluke a Snooker]

1. He'll get 100% of the sanctions, guaranteeing that Manafort can't get predatory legal help

This will ensure his compliance with a guilty plea and force him to spill the goods on Trump. Smart move!

[lindysalsagal]

4. Memo to self: Never piss of Bob Mueller.

[TNNurse]

22. I just hope he never has a reason to know my name.

[bearsfootball516]

2. Doesn't really affect him if he's spending his life in prison?

Or is this more aimed at his kids?

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

3. Taking all of his stuff certainly affects him and his family

Can't pay his lawyers anymore. Nothing for his kids. Everything he accumulated gone. When you go to prison, there's always parole. He'll come out to nothing.

[Downtown Hound]

8. Bingo! And that's what Mueller wants.

You want to play hardball and sacrifice yourself for Trump? All righty. Your choice. But you're going to take your family down with you.

Not so easy to be noble now, is it?

[mchill]

26. Doesn't his wife get to keep her share?

She is an attorney, so has contributed financially.

They didn't take his apartment in Trump Tower or is that just a rental?

[mgardener]

37. Don't you think his wife knew what he was doing?

I can't see how she did not.
Remember when Manafort's daughter's phone was hacked?
She talked about "blood money".
They knew.
Think of how much money the US lost from these guys. They were living the life while the rest of us were paying our taxes.
Trump family up next!!!

[FakeNoose]

38. One article says the wife will testify against him

So if that's the case maybe Mueller has promised he won't take her house.

The Manaforts are living in separate houses as I understand it. I'll try to find a link to that article and post it here.



Edit #1: here's the link to Business Insider article October 2017 "Paul Manafort's wife Kathleen has been a quietly pivotal part of the investigation against him— here's everything we know"

http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-manafort-wife-kathleen-manafort

Edit #2: more gossip about the Manaforts, not sure how reliable this is. October 2017 "Paul Manafort’s Family: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know"

https://heavy.com/news/2017/08/paul-manafort-family-wife-daughter-kathleen-andrea-jessica-jeffrey-yohai/

[spooky3]

50. interesting that according to the heavy.com story, daughter Andrea has opposed Trump

for a long time.

[FakeNoose]

51. Yes but not so unusual

Rupert Murdoch's sons have pretty much taken over his empire, and they're both liberals. Maybe it will change with time but I kind of doubt it. The sons grew up in New York and we know how New Yorkers feel about Trump.

As for Manafort's daughter, it's more likely she's been influenced by a liberal arts education and working in the film industry. I'm actually more surprised when I hear about young people who DO like Trump. Hating Trump seems normal to me.

[spooky3]

56. the one in the film industry is Jessica. Article referred to Andrea as making anti-Trump remarks.

And, sadly, I do know some younger people who surprised me when they supported Trump.

In Andrea's case, she was a beneficiary of some of the dirty dealings (apparently). That can sometimes influence political views (to turn a blind eye to Trump's evils).

[spooky3]

58. Jessica may be an apple who didn't fall far from the tree:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-31/for-manafort-questionable-airbnb-sublets-became-a-family-affair

[mchill]

52. On Edit#1

"In 2002, she received a $150,000 mortgage on the home from a bank run by Jared Kushner's dad. Two years later, Thomas Barrack Jr. — a close friend of Trump's — gave her a $1.76 million mortgage for the house."

More money laundering?

[FakeNoose]

54. I don't think we're seeing the whole story here

This blog isn't doing a "hard-hitting" Watergate-type story. They're just reporting what they can find in the public records that they have access to. I'm sure there's a lot more going on that isn't in the public records.

Maybe Manafort's wife will write a book about this later. It would be interesting.

[spooky3]

36. I think he owns the nearly $2 mill. house in Arlington, VA, that his daughter lives in.

It was potentially to be used for bail, along with some other properties.

https://www.arlnow.com/2017/10/31/feds-seek-forfeiture-of-clarendon-home-in-manafort-case/

His daughter is also an employed attorney and her husband may also be employed. I'm not sure if they can afford to buy the house from him in order to stay there, or if Mueller's team would permit that.

[dixiegrrrrl]

47. So his wife and daughter are attorneys and they did not know all these years?

How did he explain all the houses he bought just in the US?
Plus huge amounts of money from Ukraine.

I suspect they knew, and that Mueller "let them" help by sharing info.

[spooky3]

49. I think you're right.

[Demsrule86]

43. Even if Trump pardon's him, he is left with nothing.

[dixiegrrrrl]

48. Trump can't pardon him. They are co-conspirators.

That's the fun bit.

[Demsrule86]

57. Good point.

[Sneederbunk]

5. Any which way but loose.

[quartz007]

6. When and if Manafort gets convicted in a court,

what prevents tRump from issuing a pardon?

[emulatorloo]

30. Manafort would be a fool to think Trump can save him with a pardon

Link to tweet

5/ Unless Paul Manafort really relishes the idea of dying in prison—as no legal experts see him having any hope of beating two separate federal felony cases (multiple counts in each case) in D.C. and Virginia—he has two options: (1) pray for a pardon or (2) flip on the president.

6/ None of the evidence in the Trump-Russia probe exculpates Trump—all of it either inculpates him (i.e., points toward him having criminal liability) or inculpates his aides and family. So Manafort would be a fool to think Trump will be in a position to pardon him down the line.

That full twitter thread is worth reading if you get a chance.

Starts here:

Link to tweet

I copy pasted an unrolled version of the thread here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210281665

[mgardener]

41. Thank you

It was a great link and explained alot.
So much going on it's sometimes hard to take it all in!

[ggmac0427]

60. Thanks for the unrolled thread

I consider Seth Abramson's info valuable. Twitter used to let me view postings, but once they ID'd and deleted numerous bots, I'm not allowed to view any unless I join. And that's not going to happen.

[dixiegrrrrl]

53. Trump is a co-conspirator.

That is one of the surprising charges that Gates just pleaded guilty to: conspiracy against the United States.
Since Gates rolled on Manafort, Mueller is charging same for him now, and Manafort has done some of the illegal activities while on teh campaign/and -or transition team.
Mueller is saying he has solid proof of conspiracy with Russia re: the election.

even better...Gates pleaded guilty of lying about a meeting with Manafort, Russia, and GOP Congressman Dana Rohrabacher,
Which means Ryan is in deep doodoo.
Remember when there was a tape of ryan and someother Congress guys commenting that they KNEW Robrabacher was taking money from the Russians, and Ryan, who seemed to know the tape was running, hushed them up?

Nunes and the dirty Congressmen are in the net, to be sure.

[quartz007]

62. The plot thickens!

This drama is more exciting than winter olympics! Why do they show so much of Curling on TV? It is like watching old people playing shuffleboard.

What I do not like so far is that charges against Manafort, Gates et all precede the tRump campaign. I want to see some over-lapping dates. Than I know tRump was in it!

[quartz007]

7. When and if Manafort gets convicted in a court,

what prevents tRump from issuing a pardon?

[bearsfootball516]

9. He could, but then they likely slam him with state charges, which aren't pardonable.

[bettyellen]

14. He would still be compelled to testify, I believe.

[emulatorloo]

31. See my post 30 above. He would be a fool to depend on a Trump pardon

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10281829

[jmowreader]

34. That it would make Trump look guilty as hell, for one thing

[quartz007]

46. Pardons are usually issued at end of term

Past presidents have issued wholesale pardons at the end of their presidency. tRump is not a person who is stymied by sense of honor or shame. I can bet he will issue wholesale pardons for his gang in December 2020. I am sure he won't run again in 2020.

[Wellstone ruled]

10. Remember all of these Assets

are encumbered by Fraudulent Mortgages.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

12. The lienholders will get paid from the proceeds

Federal forfeiture actions give the lenders the ability to intervene and purchase the property to protect their interest or to wait until sale of the asset for satisfaction of their lien.

C. Liens and Mortgages

1. Liens or mortgages on real property placed into federal official use or transferred to state or local agencies are not payable from the Fund unless expressly approved by the Director, Executive Office for Asset Forfeiture.

2. Liens and mortgages shall be satisfied after the sale of forfeited property pursuant to a determination to remit or mitigate the forfeiture or an order of the court, except under the following conditions where payments mav be made from the Fund:

a. Where the payment prior to sale will improve the United States' ability to convey title to the property;

b. Where the United States has substantial equity in forfeited real property and payment prior to sale will not result in a net loss to the United States; or

c. Where the property is approved for placement into official use by an investigative bureau or the U.S. Marshals Service and all necessary approvals have been obtained.

[Wellstone ruled]

19. The kicker being the timleyness of the sale.

If the Court runs into delays in Sale of the Assets,especially Real Estate,the deterioration of said property can get darn ugly.

Like you have said,it is up to the Judge and who he or she appoints as Administrator of those Assets.

[bluestarone]

17. so maybe state banks are used?

maybe that could bring state charges???? I hope someone here say's that's possible

[Phoenix61]

11. Wonder what his wife knows.

I don't see her being too happy with this sudden change in her financials.

[bluestarone]

18. yea i wonder how much she knows?

[KewlKat]

13. I hope this means they will pull his broke ass into jail? Why wouldn't they, he has no collateral

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

15. You've got to believe that a greedy bastard like Manafort fears this

All of his illegal activities were designed to accumulate wealth. All of his scheming was to keep the cash flow going. This will hurt him even more than prison and ignominy.

[bluestarone]

16. my hope too!!!!

i've always wanted his ass in jail!!!!

[Laxman]

20. Contrast This With The Gates Plea Deal.....

limited jail time, a cap on the fine of $200,000, and no property forfeiture. That's quite a difference. Manafort's future is looking starkly different right now. Dead broke and a long dark stretch in prison. I'd be rethinking that whole, "I'm innocent" charade right about now.

[OnDoutside]

21. Didn't he give his daughters $4m ? Will they go for that too ?

[blake2012]

23. This is excellent news as are the bits of info about Dana Rohrbacher (sp?) in Gates' plea deal

this could turn into quite the GOP BBQ.

[BigmanPigman]

24. YES! Fuckin A!!!!!

My wish (one of them) come true! I want his family to be broke too since they knew what he was up to I believe. TRAITORS deserve this. I hope this happens to all of them since they SOLD OUR COUNTRY TO A FOREIGN ENEMY!

[Xipe Totec]

25. You cannot pardon property. nt

[klook]

35. Property is people too, my friend.

Probably the next argument from the Trump-Russia Very Stable Genius team of legal eagles!

[samnsara]

27. somehow somewhere somehow fucking trump will buy up his property when the gvt auctions it off....

.....$$$$$

[AJT]

28. I'm guessing he has hundreds of millions stashed away overseas.

At some point he may try to sneak out of the country.

[emulatorloo]

33. I suspect Mueller's next move may be to bring Manafort into custody as a flight risk

Mueller is definitely playing hardball now

[Honeycombe8]

29. Like that line in the movie The Jerk w/Steve Martin.

He and wife, played by Bernadette Peters, got very wealthy and are about to lose it all. Peters says, "I don't mind losing the money. It's all the stuff!!!!"

I was wondering if they were going to let him keep all his stuff, while this wound its way through the Courts. Hope he loses it all. The crook.

Manafort seems like a mobster.

[emulatorloo]

32. Mueller's definitely putting the screws to him. How much longer is Manafort going to hold out?

I doubt too much longer.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

39. Asset forfeiture...

Link to tweet

[Sunlei]

44. so the people who sold real estate to manafort get to keep the inflated price they charged?

[Sunlei]

40. Republicans dropped Manafort into the trump campaign, that day long ago he fell from the sky! WHO?

One day he was just there IN MIDDLE of Trump campaign- fresh from helping Putin invade Ukraine and working free as volunteer in Republicans campaign.

Who was it Republicans?

[FakeNoose]

55. Pootie wanted him - I'm sure of it

[iluvtennis]

42. Wow, just wow.....love it. Some coverage for the taxes on $30,000,000 he defrauded the gov't of.

[bluestarone]

45. so i'm assuming the judge has to approve all this right?

or is it a done deal?

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

59. A little musical interlude in honor of Mr. Manafort & Mr. Gates

[Vinca]

61. Does he have any unencumbered asset? From the sounds of it, he and Gates were bilking banks

for the sole purpose of maintaining their lifestyles. There must be liens on everything.