a caution about the "a pardon means he can testify" theory

[unblock]

it's true that if donnie pardons someone and they accept that pardon, then they no longer face legal jeopardy for the federal crimes for which they've been pardoned and therefore can no longer claim a 5th amendment right to refuse to testify against themselves on the grounds that a response might incriminate themselves in a crime for which they've already been pardoned.

note, however, that they still face legal jeopardy in other jurisdictions (and possibly for other federal crimes not covered by the pardon).

for example, new york state.


this means that someone pardoned by donnie could still take the fifth in response to many questions unless the answer couldn't possibly implicate them in a state crime. which might cover a lot of ground.


i do think that donnie is still likely to dangle a pardon promise over peoples' heads, but let's not all giddy if someone does get pardoned, thinking that now they must testify.

we may find that they still will be able to take the fifth for quite a lot.

[emulatorloo]

1. Yeah, If they still face legal jeopardy in other jurisdictions, Donnies pardon is basically useless

to them. There will still be pressure on them from states attorney generals to cut a deal. At least that’s my understanding.

[marylandblue]

2. The worthlessness of a Trump pardon is easily proven

by the fact that three people now have cut a deal with Mueller rather than hold out for a pardon.

[emulatorloo]

3. Tweet by Seth Abramson on that point

Link to tweet

5/ Unless Paul Manafort really relishes the idea of dying in prison—as no legal experts see him having any hope of beating two separate federal felony cases (multiple counts in each case) in D.C. and Virginia—he has two options: (1) pray for a pardon or (2) flip on the president.

6/ None of the evidence in the Trump-Russia probe exculpates Trump—all of it either inculpates him (i.e., points toward him having criminal liability) or inculpates his aides and family. So Manafort would be a fool to think Trump will be in a position to pardon him down the line.

That full twitter thread is worth reading if you get a chance.

Starts here:

Link to tweet

I copy pasted an unrolled version of the thread here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210281665