General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmerican colleges have a massive rape problem and theres no clear solution in sight
American colleges have a rape problem.
They're not going to solve it anytime soon. It's clear they don't know how.
Over the past decade, universities have clamped down on sexual assault on campuses at the federal government's urging. They've offered students an alternative to reporting incidents to police.
Instead, students can file complaints with the schools, go through a much faster trial-like process, and receive a ruling that will make their assailants disappear from campus.
But the system fails both women and men.
http://www.businessinsider.com/colleges-rape-problem-title-iv-2018-4
One solution is separate campuses for men and women, and separate dorms on coed campuses.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,357 posts)That's a terrible "solution."
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)
TygrBright
(20,762 posts)Colleges need to be in it for the long haul as part of the change process.
wearily,
Bright
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Volaris
(10,272 posts)So much less offensive in some quarters than don't DO rape???
Seems pretty fuckin' straightforward to me...
elleng
(130,974 posts)NO solution.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Dorms were strictly single-sex. Even visitation was not allowed in dorm rooms. That created the issue of finding any sort of privacy for whatever a couple might want to do. Some students, I understand, took refuge in the soundproof practice rooms in the music building. They were unlocked 24 hours a day, and had only a small 12" square window in their doors. A handkerchief would cover that, while signaling that the room was temporarily unavailable. If I remember correctly, there were a couple dozen of those practice room.
Now, that's what I understand went on, anyhow.
elleng
(130,974 posts)single-sex dorms too, an Ohio state university, same rules as yours. Don't recall hearing about practice rooms, fraternity houses very popular @ my school.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)returning following my enlistment in the USAF, that there were a number of places on campus where the dormies could find some privacy as couples. Virtually every building was unlocked around the clock there, for building maintenance and cleaning. Those in the know were able to find suitable private rooms here and there in almost every building. A faculty lounge in one, a shower with a bench outside of it in another building. At night, nobody was in any of those buildings, except the odd janitor.
One of the most interesting such places on campus, though, was a garden bower, complete with a cast iron love seat and a small koi pond. It was invisible from the street and sidewalk that passed by the building, and was nestled in a little corner outside of an L-shaped classroom building. It was completely enclosed by vines growing on arbors, except for an arched entryway.
It was a super-romantic little setting. I took my first wife there a few months before we were married, just to show it to her. It always seemed completely out of place in its location, and I have no idea who built it or why. I don't know how many couples found that bower, but it was a lovely spot for a little interlude. I can't imagine that anyone would ever be interrupted there.
I still wonder what it was doing there. It really made no sense. I suspect it was a project by someone graduating from the schools Ornamental Horticulture department, built as a Senior project. I do hope that other couples found it from time to time.
elleng
(130,974 posts)
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)turn it over the criminal system for handling. More minor offenses can be handled within the school, but not rape. Are they prepared to do a rape kit, etc? If they can't handle the investigation professionally, they shouldn't be doing it at all.
The problem is the schools are more worried about their PR than the welfare of their students.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)With 66,000 students, Miami Dade College was the largest four-year school to have zero rape reports. But it is a commuter school, with no student dormitories, and produces far more associate’s than bachelor’s degrees. All of those factors set it apart from traditional residential colleges.
“The low number in our annual Clery Act reports is a reflection of the positive atmosphere at our institution,” said Miami Dade spokesman Juan C. Mendieta. “It not a reflection of hesitation by our students to report an incident.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/06/15/hundreds-of-colleges-had-zero-rape-reports-in-2014-and-that-could-be-worrisome/
Student rape investigations by colleges appear to be a function of whether they have on-campus dormitories and/or Greek houses.
Rape involving off-campus students or between students and townies tends to be handled by law enforcement.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)and universities aren't prepared to investigate and prosecute it.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Universities don't want to be in the business of running rape courts.
However, as described here:
http://endrapeoncampus.org/title-ix/
"Under Title IX, schools that receive federal funding (i.e. financial aid) must give students an equal opportunity for education that is free from sexual discrimination and harassment. In a Title IX civil lawsuit, one must prove that their school knew or should have known about the sexual assault or sexual harassment of a student and did not investigate or handle the situation properly. If you believe your school failed to comply with its obligations under Title IX through the handling of your sexual assault or harassment claim, you may have a Title IX civil lawsuit against the university."
Civil rights litigators have succeeded in bringing claims against schools which receive federal funding, if that school maintains a discriminatory environment - which includes sexual assault or harassment.
If an incident is reported to the police, that's one thing, but that has nothing to do with whether the victim has a civil claim by virtue of the perpetrator remaining on campus thus creating a hostile environment for that victim.
So, schools are caught between a rock and a hard place on this. They can't just "turn it over to the police" and dispose of their civil liability.
What is it that you suggest they do?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)They should turn the cases over to the proper authorities.
But that wouldn't preclude them from having their own policies on how these situations should be handled internally while the cases make their way through criminal courts.
Just like any business can have such a policy. If a woman accuses another employee or manager of rape, there are steps a business can take to separate them while the criminal investigation is ongoing.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)They are doing just what you say they should be doing:
"But that wouldn't preclude them from having their own policies on how these situations should be handled internally"
That's what they are doing.
"If a woman accuses another employee or manager of rape, there are steps a business can take to separate them while the criminal investigation is ongoing."
Not if they live in the same building and have to attend the same classes. Most businesses are not like that, and most businesses can fire anyone at will, so it really doesn't matter what their process is.
Whether things are reported to the police or not, the university MUST act on a Title IX complaint. They have no choice. This is not a business that universities were chomping at the bit to be in.
If they do not act, they will be sued by the alleged victim. If they don't have some sort of process, they will be sued by taking summary action against the alleged perpetrator. The university is going to get sued either way. That's why they've come up with these sorts of processes, so that they can say everyone got a fair shake, regardless of which side decides to sue them.
as long as the victim supports reporting it. In addition, the victim will still have to attend class and interact with the perp until trial, and there will be no punishment unless it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt (very difficult in many of these cases).
On the other hand the school can suspend / expel the perp immediately, and the burden of proof is only a preponderance of the evidence.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)has accused another of rape, that can be pursued with the police at the same time the school takes its own measures to assure student safety.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)the schools are not law enforcement. seems like the schools want students to report certain crimes to them instead of police so they can sweep it up under the rug.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,357 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,357 posts)gyroscope
(1,443 posts)the campus police are likely to place the interests of the school above that of the students.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,357 posts)gyroscope
(1,443 posts)I think you are dreaming.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,357 posts)And when I say "institutions," I mean colleges, workplaces, police departments, legal systems, religious organizations, social groups, etc.
I know that women are routinely disbelieved, that male victims are treated as jokes and that the mission of academic institutions is to protect their reputation and the mission of the police is to protect property. But a victim may feel more comfortable reporting to an institution because Title IX procedures do focus on the victim completing their education without disruption.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)
procon
(15,805 posts)Seriously, everyone already knows the answer to that question, yeah?
So, the obvious solution is -- and always has been -- stop treating women like 2nd class citizens! Pass the Equal Rights Amendment to enshrine the inalienable rights of women citizens in a free and just, modern country. Give us the same ability to control of our lives, our bodies, our economics, families and our future as the penis-bound members of society.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,414 posts)
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)For dealing with rape should be in addition to rather than instead of reporting to police.
Are there any other felonies that are dealt with in such a matter? Would a murder be treated as a student issue and handled with a suspension for a few semesters or a written reprimand?
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Depending on the state, a failure to report a felony carries some risk.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)they want to protect the rapists while sweeping the incident under the rug.
there is no legitimate reason for not reporting it to police.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,357 posts)option for action, not a replacement. If an academic institution gets a report, it's not going to take the lead on investigating and acting on it.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)sarisataka
(18,663 posts)That under Federal law it is only a crime to actively conceal a crime. There is no offense if someone learns of a crime and simply takes no action. Many states mirror this to some degree.
A few states (Ohio was one specifically named) it is a crime to fail to report a felony. In my mind, these programs would be illegal in such states. They could only avoid running foul of the reporting laws by playing very loose with the definition of words. But it could then be argued they are actively concealing crimes...
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Most states already have mandatory reporting by school administrators of crimes against minors (less than 18).
This would also seem to already apply to colleges when the victim is a 17-year old freshman.
mythology
(9,527 posts)It's so easy I can do it all day long. If separating men and women stopped rape, there would be no rape in Saudi Arabia.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)good luck with that.
mythology
(9,527 posts)If merely saying people with guns were not allowed to have guns in a particular place, we wouldn't have schools being shot up.
Again as Saudi Arabia shows, segregating men and women doesn't stop rape. The solution of separate but equal isn't viable for many reasons. Instead teach guys (and the very small number of women who rape) that rape is wrong and that justifying it by excuse x, y or z doesn't make it not rape.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)wishing and praying for them to stop doing it? that is not a solution.
Response to FarCenter (Original post)
gyroscope This message was self-deleted by its author.
DrunkInTheAfternoon
(30 posts)It would have been nice if they would have quantified "massive". They cited 60 cases of misconduct (not all rape) at Yale over seven years. While that's not a happy number, I would not call it "massive"
Response to DrunkInTheAfternoon (Reply #33)
Skittles This message was self-deleted by its author.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)"They cited 60 cases of misconduct (not all rape) at Yale over seven years. While that's not a happy number, I would not call it "massive""
"happy number" What a dismal turn of phrase aboy sexual assault even if there were such a thing an "acceptable number" of rapes or sexual violence.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)marble falls
(57,106 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)they have the ability to properly adjudicate rape accusations...
Because there's too much emphasis on protecting the school/athletic department's reputation first....
marlakay
(11,476 posts)in a college in Portland, OR. She was so traumatized by it and nothing was done that she quit school and is still home with her parents in northern CA working at McDonalds. Very sad.