NRA TV called for members to rise up against YouTube last week:

[Mrs. Overall]

Last edited Tue Apr 3, 2018, 05:34 PM - Edit history (2)

On Edit: News breaking that a female shooter shot her boyfriend then herself. But there are also reports of others being shot?
This may have nothing to do with the NRA. BUT, the NRA continues to call for members to "rise up" and, in my opinion, this incites violence.

Link to tweet

[NightWatcher]

1. Stochastic terrorists should be prosecuted as co-conspirators

Or accessories before the fact.

[kairos12]

53. Disgusting gun merchants drenched in the blood of their victims.

[IluvPitties]

2. The NRA sponsors domestic terrorism.

[Initech]

9. They not only sponsor it, they encourage it.

Want proof? Just check out Dana Loesch's Twitter feed.

[DBoon]

28. It is their business model

Not enough hunters and sports shooters to keep them in business

[Initech]

49. Of course they won't tell you directly to shoot someone or a group.

They'll give you a *wink wink, nudge, nudge * subtle hint kind of deal like they do through their YouTube and Twitter feeds.

[warmfeet]

41. Yep. NT

[Squinch]

3. Kick. This can't be allowed to get lost in the discussion.

[backtoblue]

12. Agree

They are promoting violence, fear, and hate. And all the arms makers and war mongers are smiling in their greedy hives. I'm afraid they are trying to start a civil war.

[SergeStorms]

32. There's no doubt about that........

that's the first step in the right-wing's plan (and Russia's attacks on social media) for a fascist America. Get political factions fighting against each other, followed by people "snitching" on each other for whatever reason. Trump's, FOX's and Sinclair's attacks on the media are another part of the hard push for an American fascist state. It's coming, and it's coming a lot faster than most realize.

[Mike Nelson]

4. If there is a connection...

...maybe the media should use the term "NRA Terrorist"

[SergeStorms]

33. Oh boy......

Trump, Sinclair and FOX would go apeshit over that!

[DemocracyMouse]

40. No, that's a bad idea. In the nutjob universe that rings like a positive

[LonePirate]

5. This does not surprise me at all.

[AJT]

6. Inciting violence. Time for the FBI to make some arrests.

It would be really hard for an organization that is all about guns to claim that telling it's members to "rise up against YouTube" would not involve guns.

[Corgigal]

7. Not gonna help your cause..

You're gonna poof faster now.

[malaise]

17. Huh?

[Initech]

8. This *LITERALLY* is the equivalent of yelling "fire" in a crowded theater!

[X_Digger]

22. .. which is perfectly legal. Has been for 40 years. Stop using that saying.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/

[ProfessorGAC]

75. There Is Some Contradiction In That Article

While specifically pointing out that Holmes' tag line has not actual legal standing, the guy in that case went to jail. So, there is still some smoke there.

Second, two other cases specifically note that the "inciters" went to jail.

Third, it says the Brandenberg overturned those unless there was intent to incite. That's pretty damned vague as to whether it's actually legal to yell fire in a crowded theater.

The author of that article is making some fine point of jurisprudence without realizing that the examples actually suggest something other than the point they are trying to make.

[X_Digger]

77. Oh FFS.

Schneck was a goddamned train wreck of a case that reflected a dark time for first amendment jurisprudence.

Peaceful anti-war protesters were jailed for being so bold as to disapprove of the draft and publicly criticize the government. Not incitement. You really don't want to fucking hang your hat on that odious piece of trash, do you?

Brandenberg sets out a test that's used to this day to determine whether some speech is protected or not.

Please, please, please get a lawyer you trust to explain it to you. They'll straighten you out.

[ProfessorGAC]

78. Dismissed

[X_Digger]

81. Yes, quite.

Do be sure to report back when you get a lawyer to set you straight.

[malaise]

10. Oh My!

Lock them up!

[Mrs. Overall]

13. I'm not "thick," Buck.

It's a fact that last week the NRA called for a rise up against YouTube.

This is not fake news. It is not jumping to conclusions.

Perhaps it is connected or perhaps not.

But, last week the NRA called for a rise up against YouTube.

[Squinch]

15. Oh, go away. SMH.

[tinrobot]

14. Clear case of cause and effect.

[sharedvalues]

51. No. But even if not the cause, what the NRA did is bad

It’s bad for our society to have groups calling for violence.

[Yavin4]

16. Is this exactly what ISIS does?

They encourage random acts of mass violence. So, why isn't the NRA a terrorist organization?

[Starfury]

47. Correct: Radicalization, resulting in terrorist-inspired attacks

...“Today, we see in addition to that threat [terrorist-directed attacks], the threat of terrorist-inspired attacks,” Johnson said.

Radicalization

Those attacks are often propagated by U.S. citizens who have become radicalized by groups like al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula or the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. AQAP “no longer builds bombs in secret; it now puts out an instruction manual and urges the public to do the same thing,” he said.

Homeland Security sees an increasing threat from the lone-wolf actor and foreign fighters, Johnson said.

The terrorist-inspired attacks include the Boston Marathon bombing in April 2013, the attack on the Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris this year and the attack in Chattanooga in July that killed five service members, Johnson said...

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/622878/homeland-security-chief-discusses-changing-nature-of-terrorism/

The original comments were regarding overseas terrorist organizations. But just substitute "NRA" for "al-Quaida", etc. and it's clearly the same tactic of radicalization, resulting in terrorist-inspired attacks. The NRA is a terrorist organization.

[BadgerMom]

18. K and R

They disgust me. They are terrorists and a cancer to American life.

[IronLionZion]

19. It doesn't have to be a specific threat of violence

Many terrorist groups give more general calls for someone out there to do something bad, which encourages it but offers them some deniability.

Unless she's Muslim, the media won't explore any connection to terrorism. And some boosters of our patriarchal system will continue to deny women can be shooters/murderers.

[hardluck]

23. But it wasn't a threat of violence or to "do something bad"

I just watched the video and the guy said to "fire back" at youtube by continuing to post gun related content on the site and make them "censor" it. How is that a threat of violence?

[IronLionZion]

24. Because it's open to interpretation by whoever listens to it

[Straw Man]

34. Right.

Because it's open to interpretation by whoever listens to it

Because when somebody tells people to post videos, it's easy to get mixed up and think they mean shoot people.

[IronLionZion]

37. People who believe guns are the solution to every problem

get mixed up all the time

[Straw Man]

50. People who believe guns are the solution to every problem?

Yeah, they're all over the place. Why, just the other day, the man on line in front of me at the supermarket blew the cashier away because she gave him the wrong change.

Hyperbole is not your friend.

[IronLionZion]

65. 2 security guards shot at Cadillac Ranch restaurant in National Harbor

dispute over a bill

https://wtop.com/prince-georges-county/2018/03/two-people-shot-restaurant-national-harbor/

Maybe you live in a place that doesn't see frequent gun violence, and never watch the evening news

[Straw Man]

66. And this happens "all the time" where you live?

Were the shooters heeding the clarion call of the NRA?

[IronLionZion]

67. Regardless of the question, the answer is always more guns.

[Straw Man]

69. Aw, now you're just being silly.

Q: Who's going to win the World Series this year?
A: More guns.

Q: Will Mueller indict the President?
A: More guns.

Q: Briefs or boxers?
A: More guns.

[IronLionZion]

71. Exactly! You'd get an A rating from the NRA

[mythology]

68. That is so broad as to be useless

Unless you think the makers of Taxi Driver and Jodi Foster were responsible for Hinckley shooting Reagan.

Additionally given there so far has been no evidence to support the contention that this is related to YouTube banning gun videos, it's a little hard to be claiming this is proof the NRA videos are incitements to violence.

[Tipperary]

20. At this point, this does not seem to have anything to do with it.

But certainly continue with your agenda.

[eallen]

42. Indeed. Unlike the freepers, let's wait for the facts.

[magicarpet]

48. This YouTube shoot up....

.... seems attributable to a jilted girlfriend -romance gone sour type of thing.

Best not to jump to rapid conclusions and let the evidence surface and rule the day.

[calimary]

21. Yeah. And indeed there was an active shooter at YouTube headquarters.

Just today. Hope they're happy. Hey, NRA, you proud of yourselves?

[Eyeball_Kid]

25. Calm down, folks.

What happened to “just the facts”?

Some of the posters are going off the rails with presumptions that only stir emotions and inflame prejudices.

Shall we have the patience and wisdom to WAIT until we know more?

[Tipperary]

26. That is not a strength of many here on du.

[sarisataka]

27. Patience? Wait for information?

What's the fun in that?

[Tipperary]

29. Lol. Thank you.

[sharedvalues]

52. We have information on what the NRA

No matter who the shooter was,
We know what he NRA did: call for violence.

That’s bad enough on its own to be called out.

People here are calling out the NRA.
And appropriately so. No matter who the shooter was.

[Captain Stern]

38. But, dammit, if we wait for all the facts, we might not be mad any more!

So, back to it....

.....Crowded Movie Theater!!!......arghle barghle.....Lock Them Up!!..Call The FBI!!!...murmur, murmur.....exactly like ISIS!!....aaargh.


But seriously, shit like that makes this site look ridiculous.

[Volaris]

30. The right-wing dipshits think that americas corporations ARENT

Going to obey the vaunted free market forces they've been screaming for America to respect for a half-century...
All because they think their constitutionally protected Rights are more important.
Guess they should have considered that before they GAVE THOSE SAME RIGHTS TO THE CORPORATIONS.
So now they can Suck it.
Dumb ignorant shortsighted snowflake motherfuckers.

[SergeStorms]

39. +1000

[BamaRefugee]

31. I don't need no steenkin' information

This is already up on my Facebook, just waiting for the ammosexual mouth breathers to come and start posting their proud illiteracy for all to see.
I use their own propaganda techniques against them, good times.

[sharedvalues]

54. On what the NRA did, we have all the information we need

When the NRA calls for violence, they deserve scorn.

No matter who this shooter is.

[Straw Man]

72. "what the NRA did"

When the NRA calls for violence, they deserve scorn.

So telling people to keep posting gun videos is now considered a call for violence? Logic is screaming.

[sharedvalues]

82. NRA incites violence. They are an arm of the GOP.

Logic is speaking calmly.

The NRA is an arm of the GOP.

They call for violence.

Link to tweet

Now you're going to say that video is different than those other gun videos. If you said that, you'd be demonstrating you don't understand propaganda.

[Straw Man]

83. Actually, no they don't.

The more you torture logic, the louder it screams.

"Post more gun videos" is not a call for violence. A call for violence is something along the lines of "I toast a cap in your ass," as said by a gun-control advocate on this site a few years ago. Perhaps you remember it.

[sharedvalues]

84. NRA incites violence.

Brian Klass studies authoritarian regimes. He says the NRA's advertising is as bad as any incitement to violence he's seen in any other corrupt state.

It's the truth. The NRA incites violence, and fear, to get votes for GOP billionaires (who need working class votes for their pro-billionaire, anti-working class policies).




(and please take the whataboutism somewhere else. We're talking about the NRA and their videos.)

[Straw Man]

85. Whataboutism?

"What about" the hypocrisy of decrying in your political opponents the same tactics that you employ yourself?

[sharedvalues]

86. NRA incites violence. And only you used whataboutism

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

And by trying to accuse me of what you're doing, you've now used two propaganda approaches:
Whataboutism, and mirroring. It's not going to work. Stick to the issue:

The NRA incites violence.

[Straw Man]

87. "Whataboutism" is a bullshit term to deflect counterarguments.

The name for what you're doing is "hypocrisy." False accusations of behavior that you actually practice earns that title.

This is what he says in the video:

"We've got to fire back, and I've said over and over again, just because they say they're not going to put it up, you keep putting your videos up on YouTube, and let them try to censor it. You keep putting your content out on Twitter and Facebook. Let them try to censor it. Overwhelm these leftists in California. Do it. It'll work."

He's a rightwing whack-job, but I challenge you to identify the call to violence. "Fire back"? Is that what you're basing it on? Please.

[sharedvalues]

88. NRA incites violence. And you do not understand propaganda.

Whataboutism is a propaganda term used when one changes the argument away from its topic to distract.

On the topic:

“Fire back. Overwhelm those leftists in California. Use a second amendment solution. Young bucks. Welfare queens. Build the wall, Mexico will pay. Jews are the cause of our problems.”

Anyone who can’t see the hate and racism behind those statements needs to learn about propaganda.

[Straw Man]

89. The irony is rich, Grasshopper.

“Fire back. Overwhelm those leftists in California. Use a second amendment solution. Young bucks. Welfare queens. Build the wall, Mexico will pay. Jews are the cause of our problems.”

The bolded portion above is the only part that appeared in the video under discussion. The rest was gleaned from elsewhere by you and inserted by you. And you presume to lecture me about distracting from the topic and not understanding propaganda?

Please.

[sharedvalues]

92. We talkin bout the NRA

The NRA incites violence.

You have provided no evidence against that statement.


And I’ll go further:

The NRA is a terrorist organization.

A terrorist organization funded by gun CEOs and in cahoots with America’s enemies.

I would be careful defending the NRA if I were you. And yes, the organization’s history and agenda matters.

[Straw Man]

93. Here's how it works.

The NRA incites violence.

You have provided no evidence against that statement.

Actually, you have provided no evidence FOR it. Have you heard of Hitchens's Razor? "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

I see some inflammatory statements of a right-wing nature in that video, but no calls for violence. I asked you to show me one, and you so far have not. Your unsupported assertion is dismissed.

I would be careful defending the NRA if I were you. And yes, the organization’s history and agenda matters.

The organization's history and agenda both revolve around the defense of the right to keep and bear arms. The organization's leadership seem to have decided that the best way to do that is to hitch their wagon to the far right wing of the American political spectrum. That's unfortunate, but it's not unethical, illegal, or terroristic. Hyperbole is not your friend.

[sharedvalues]

94. NRA incites violence

Above I posted several pieces of evidence, include from Brian Klaas, who studies autocracies, and says the NRA issues calls to violence like those produced by dictatorships.

Feel free to keep denying reality if you makes you feel better.


The NRA incites violence.

And Americans who buy guns or ammo fund the NRA and are thus complicit in kids’ deaths.

[Straw Man]

96. Mindless repetition is a poor rhetorical technique.

The challenge stands: Cite me one call for violence in the video from the OP. You know, the one that this entire thread is about?

You posted Brian Klass's opinion on another video altogether, one that contains lots of inflammatory language but is actually only calling for more money, membership, and votes.

And Americans who buy guns or ammo fund the NRA and are thus complicit in kids’ deaths.

I wasn't aware that the NRA was capable of putting their own tax levies on gun and ammo purchases. Are you calling for a boycott? What a clever little Catch-22 way of bringing your gun-control fantasies to fruition. Yeah, that'll work ...

[sharedvalues]

95. Further: those who buy guns are complicit in kids deaths.

[Straw Man]

97. Uh-huh. And so are those who buy alcohol.

Don't even get me started on recreational drug use and the cartels.

[Gothmog]

35. Who is surprised by this?

[SergeStorms]

36. If the NRA believes they're being "persecuted".....,.

by YouTube for censoring videos concerning the modification or manufacture of firearms, why doesn't the NRA host their own forums on their website? Problem solved. Every gun nut in the world can have a field day posting the most destructive and illegal shit possible. Then the BATF knows where to find all the fascist assholes they could ever want when they need to find one.

[hardluck]

44. That would definitely be the free market way to approach this

You would think that if these videos are so popular that someone would start a "guntube" site and post all the videos there.

[NoMoreRepugs]

43. A tidal wave of lawsuits needs to never end against

the asshats at the NRA that incite violence. Bury them in litigation.

[hardluck]

45. There was no incitement

The guy in the video said to "fire back" at youtube by continuing to post gun related content on the site and make them "censor" it. That's not incitement. There would be no meaningful litigation either. If you were to file a lawsuit based on this video, the NRA would just file an anti-SLAPP motion and collect their attorney's fees.

[sharedvalues]

55. The NRA incited violence.

If you deny that, you know absolutely nothing about propaganda. I suggest reading Tim Snyder on Goebbels and German propaganda.

[hardluck]

57. Not by this video

Which is the topic of this thread. Not only would this video not rise to the level of incitement, any lawsuit based on the video would be considered a strategic lawsuit against public participation and would be thrown out of court on a special motion to strike.

Whether the video is propaganda is immaterial to whether it meets the definition of incitement, which it does not.

[sharedvalues]

58. The NRA incited violence

You’re just showing you don’t understand propaganda.

Read this
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fascism/2017/03/how_nazi_propaganda_encouraged_the_masses_to_co_produce_a_false_reality.html


That article talks about how German fascism built support amongst citizens by many different kinds of anti-Jewish propaganda, both overt and covert, over many years.

We know who the NRA is. They are willing to incite violence in pursuit of profits for gun corporations. Don’t give them a pass here. The NRA incites violence. It’s part of their business model.

[hardluck]

60. Ships passing in the night

I'm talking from a legal perspective and your talking from a historical perspective. I'm a lawyer - I get caught up in the legal aspects of things....

That's cool though.

[sharedvalues]

61. We all underestimate propaganda

This president was elected because the right built a propaganda machine to inspire fear and divide America - Fox, Limbaugh, Heritage, Breitbart, etc.

This president just spoke about that fear and hate out loud and his base ate it up.

But it was GOP propaganda that built that base. The NRA is at this moment just the most visible arm of the propaganda machine. But we must hold them accountable - likely through organizing and resistance, as legal action seems unlikely.

[Tarc]

62. "I'm a lawyer"

[hardluck]

63. Ok

[kcr]

79. Everyone knows internet lawyers and doctors are of the highest quality

Didn't you know that?

[AllaN01Bear]

46. youtube can do what ever it wants to, its their right . google owns the thig

so . if true , then the nra needs to be taken down. loose its 503 c status .

[Renew Deal]

56. So was todays incident NRA inspired terrorism?

[sharedvalues]

59. NRA incites violence to make money for gun CEOs

What the NRA does in pursuit of profit is despicable.

[jberryhill]

64. It is being investigated as a domestic dispute

...as there appears to have been an intended victim known to the shooter.

There’s a comment upthread about “how propaganda works”. Well, one of the ways it works is by appealing to emotions and assumptions rather than facts.

[Daxter]

70. NRA Domestic terrorists

If any other organization put out statements like that, police would have arrestees them all by now.

[malaise]

74. Turns out it was not a domestic attack

She was pissed with YouTube.

[sarisataka]

76. Has it been confirmed

The shooter was an NRA member?

[EX500rider]

80. I kind of doubt she was:

She was a "vegan bodybuilder and animal rights activist" promoting a "healthy and humane lifestyle".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43639634

[workinclasszero]

90. The NRA Is a Terrorist Organization

These calls to 'rise up' prove it.

The right in this country always imply violence if they don't get their way.

We live under a pall of violence every day in this country because of the damned NRA.

[Straw Man]

91. Not by any meaningful definition ...

... of the word "terrorism."

If you really believe that the NRA is the root cause and the sine qua non of the "pall of violence" in this country, then I can only conclude that you have no absolutely no understanding of historical or contemporary sociopolitical realities.