Joy Reid: For the record, Barack Obama is quite a bit more than just a charismatic leader.

[pnwmom]

(Despite what some ex-Democrats might say.)



"For the record, Barack Obama is quite a bit more than just a charismatic leader. And the past decade saw genuine progress, particularly on healthcare and LGBT rights. The fierce backlash against the Obama era doesn't negate it. And MLK died to make that progress possible.

"There are concrete reasons, beyond how markedly he improved America's image around the world and the financial rescue from the Bush recession that Obama is a top ten president, his party's reticence to stand with him and win elections notwithstanding."

Link to tweet

His top 50 accomplishments from his first 4 years alone:

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/marchapril-2012/obamas-top-50-accomplishments/

[BannonsLiver]

1. Best president of my lifetime by a mile

[oberliner]

70. What about Bill Clinton?

Were you alive when he was POTUS?

[BannonsLiver]

71. Born in 1971

Clinton was my first presidential vote in 1992. I prefer Obama, like I said.

[NCTraveler]

76. Which one was your favorite?

Do either break you top ten list?

[oberliner]

89. Bill Clinton, for sure

Obama #2 and Carter #3.

[ChiTownDenny]

134. The most peaceful and prosperous 8 years in generations.

That would be Clinton's presidency.

[mcar]

147. I was born in 1958

Proudly voted for Carter, Clinton and every other Democratic nominee.

Barack Obama is the best president of my lifetime, thus far.

[oberliner]

152. What tips the scales for you for Obama over Clinton?

[mcar]

156. 8 years scandal free, for one

Clinton didn't have to deal with near the obstruction that Obama did, nor did he need to get us out of a near Depression.

That said, Bill Clinton did great things for this country and the world. And I bow to no one in my admiration for HRC. Both men have the advantage of their incredible wives.

[Demsrule86]

174. Bill Clinton was an excellent president but he was unable to get healthcare and President Obama

achieved healthcare which no Democratic President has in 100 years or more and he saved the economy as well. He was the best president of my lifetime.

[oberliner]

186. Not for lack of trying

And Clinton not only invigorated the economy but also ran budget surpluses. Hard to even imagine such a thing anymore.

They were both great but I give Clinton the top spot. Also it could have been that I got to meet him in person!

[Demsrule86]

224. I love them both but I give Pres. Obama the top spot myself...but both were great.

[Eliot Rosewater]

226. Obama faced unprecedented obstruction and hate, even worse than what Clinton did

He was Superman, actually, Obama.

[ailsagirl]

105. Ditto here

[JI7]

2. He is a nerdy policy wonk

[betsuni]

27. It's like he only remembers 2008 campaign Obama, not President Obama.

[JI7]

51. or Senator Obama

he didn't spend his time in the senate giving nice speeches. he was involved in all the "boring" policy stuff.

and even the early days for the 2008 primary were small low key events mostly discussing policy. that's how he built up support.

democrats don't nominate light weights for president. even those who were known for charisma like bill clinton were very intelligent people .

doesn't matter how nice obama's 2004 speech was. without substance he would not have won the nomination. and i think this is why he got the support of democratic senators more than other democrats. because they worked with him and saw there was much more to him and he was ready to be president.

[betsuni]

58. Sanders doesn't strike me as a very observant person.

I wonder if he even knows much about Obama, or Democrats in general.

[Gothmog]

74. President Obama was a great POTUS

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

3. Let the Bernie bashing begin!!!

[revmclaren]

5. Let the vetting begin...

Waaay overdue!

Only!

[mcar]

67. This!

[NCTraveler]

77. This. Thank you for rightfulling defining it. Nt

[jrthin]

104. This +++++. nt

[SunSeeker]

122. Yes indeed. nt

[emulatorloo]

6. If he would stop saying dumb stuff, people would not call him out for saying dumb stuff

I understand you feel super-protective but he is a gaffe machine now.

He apparently can not stop saying dumb stuff.

Blaming Hillary for not stopping Russian Bots. Helping Trump out by attacking an US company Trump lied about. Diminishing Obama and his accomplishments.

Sadly he is all out of free passes.

If you plan to support him in 2020 primary run, you may need to develop a thicker skin.

You won’t be able to simply claim the legit questions he will get from the press and from other presidential candidates is “bashing!!!” and make the questions go away.

[meadowlark5]

11. If he is the nominee, the crap that will be dug up by the Trump/Russia/CA machine will tank him

Hillary couldn't go after him in the primaries because it would alienate his followers even more. No one knew anything about Bernie. No vetting at all. We will know a lot about Bernie and even his wife in 2020 if he gets the nomination. And it will be very unflattering and damaging. I think he's under the delusion that he's going to skate through this unscathed because nothing came out in 2016. Just wait. Anything in his past will be amplified and used in the worst possible way. If he doesn't think so, he didn't watch Hillary's run objectively.

It disappoints me that I used to love Bernie. Now I can't stand him.

[pnwmom]

14. And there's a reason he didn't release any full tax returns -- and it's not because

they will increase support for his candidacy.

I still want to know what happened with Olde Towne Media, and what happened with those millions.

We should require that anyone release five years of tax returns before they can run in any Democratic primary or caucus.

It doesn't matter that it's not in the Constitution. This is about being a member of the Democratic party, which is free to define its requirements.

[SunSeeker]

123. Exactly.

Anything less legitimizes Shitler's refusal to turn over his tax return.

[Demsrule86]

175. Elections are run by states..they can put any rules in place they choose. It is not a constitutional

issue. And they should insist on five years tax returns as a minimum.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

194. Agree... 5 years seems reasonable to me.

[Demsrule86]

221. I think it is reasonable too. People should have all the information before candidates are nominated

Snowed her yesterday! I am in Ohio.

[Lil Missy]

171. He's not going to get the nomination. n/t

[pnwmom]

179. No one should be in a primary or caucus unless they first release their tax returns.

That way we'll prevent a repeat of what happened in 2016 no matter who is the nominee.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

196. I agree about candidates releasing tax returns, but how would that necessarily

have prevented a repeat of what happened?

[Hekate]

12. This

[SidDithers]

7. ...

Sid

[Cha]

18. ..

[treestar]

88. ...

[pnwmom]

8. Oh, right. Bernie should be able to bash Obama and other Dems whenever he feels like it

and no one should ever respond.

[whathehell]

28. Right, and Obama walks on water and no one should question that

..ever.

[R B Garr]

60. LOL, its more that Bernie walks on water and no one should

question that...ever. The attempts at making Bernie the victim are beyond absurd when he is the one attacking Democrats and a wildly popular ex President.

ALL that with absolutely no accountability for why Independents never win anything.

[sheshe2]

82. "wildly popular ex President"

That he is RB!

[R B Garr]

85. Hi sheshe! We were lucky to have him.

He is missed!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

197. Agree with you there.

[R B Garr]

214. ......

[whathehell]

86. Um, no..

As I:m sure you noticed, Obama got elected, Bernie didn't.

[R B Garr]

155. That chain of posts was about bashing. It wasn't about elections.

It was about Bernie using a platform meant to honor MLK to denigrate our first African American President.

Your post was more worried about Bernie than Obama and the African American voters that were offended by his comments. Hence the turnaround on you. Not everyone is as concerned about Bernie taking heat for offensive comments,

[whathehell]

222. Please -- He did not "denigrate" Obama -- A lack of effusiveness

does not equal "denigration"...It doesn't even come close.

Why would I (or anyone) need to be "concerned" about Obama?..For God's sake, he's out of office at a still young age, rich and highly respected around the world....I'll save my concern for REAL attacks on him and his legacy as well as the Not -As- Fortunate among us.
I'm sorry for the African - Americans who were offended by Bernie because they thought his remarks on Obama were insufficiently effusive, but I'm not sure it was a legitimate expectation to begin with -- Respect and admiration, yes -- Total agreement and near-worship, no.

[R B Garr]

243. Wow, how completely out of touch! Embarrassing.

He was at an event honoring Martin Luther King! Obama is the first black President. By your flippant standards, no one should still care about MLK because he’s been gone 50 years. You said Obama is out of office, so move on. That is so telling that you only label things “real’ issues if they’re straight out of Bernie’s stump speech. Just because Bernie diminishes Obama with dismissive remarks doesn’t mean others do.

[whathehell]

252. What's "embarrassing" is your refusal to characterize my comments

honestly instead of making stuff up.

Please show me, for instance, where I said ANYTHING about Dr. King, let alone that 'no one should care about him anymore"
Hint: You can't because I didn't You'd be equally hard pressed to find my saying "Obama's out of office, so move on", because again, I never said it.

Sorry, Garr, I only deal with honest people here, so I'm afraid we won't be exchanging anymore posts. Goodbye and good luck.

[R B Garr]

290. Awwww.

Your whataboutism post to pnwmom about Obama walking on water didn’t go well, did it...

Turns out that trying to turn the tables on Obama failed. No wonder you have to make it personal...very predictable and typical.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

264. Well said.

[whathehell]

279. Thank you. n/t

[TexasTowelie]

275. There were more than African Americans that were offended by Bernie's remarks. nt

[whathehell]

278. Did someone say otherwise?

I was just responding to a post sent me which spoke about the reaction of "many in the AA community".

[TexasTowelie]

281. My apologies.

I understand better now based upon the context.

[whathehell]

282. Apology accepted, and thanks..

I appreciate it.

[LiberalBrooke]

289. I am offended

and I am white.

[pnwmom]

101. Only a self-promoting politician would go to a commemoration marking the death

of MLK, Jr., who died fighting for civil rights, and make disparaging comments about the first black President -- a man who pulled the country out of the worst recession since the Great Depression -- and say that Obama had been part of 15 years of Democratic failure (somehow linking his Presidency with the 8 years of the Republican before him.)

[whathehell]

119. Gee. Who knew being called "brilliant" and a "great candidate"

constituted "disparaging" comments?

Sorry, but I think your perception of his remarks is skewered. Since we discussed this before and reached no agreement, I doubt further discussion will change either of our minds.

[pnwmom]

120. Calling him an extraordinary "candidate" without a word about his ACHIEVEMENTS

in the face of the most obstructive Congress in history -- a Congress that agreed at the very outset of his administration to block everything he tried to do -- is damning with faint praise.

[whathehell]

188. Calling someone "brilliant," is not faint praise in my opinion

but maybe he SHOULD have mentioned his achievements, but demonizing him for not doing so at this particular time is hyperbolic and overreactive, imo.

[lunamagica]

128. Why didn't he call him a great president?

[druidity33]

140. Ummm...

because he was talking about the process, and the Party, and candidates?

[EffieBlack]

246. Then why mention him at all?

[whathehell]

187. Maybe he thought he was more "good" than "great"

People are allowed their opinions. I myself think of him as a great person and a very good president.

[MrsCoffee]

195. Is that why he wanted Obama primaried? Because he thought he was a good president?

Once again, if this was a one off, Bernie might get the benefit of the doubt. But this is a pattern of behavior from him that is repulsive to many.

[whathehell]

208. No, I think it was when Obama offered to give away Social Security

in the interests of a "grand bargain" with the Republicans.

I was shocked and angered by it myself, and don't apologize for that.

[mcar]

274. Obama offered to "give away" SS?

When was that?

[whathehell]

277. He offered to "trade away" Social Security for

more cooperation from Republicans in what was termed a "grand bargain". It happened around 2011 -- You can google it.

[betsuni]

280. But you said "give away."

Now it's "trade away." Which is it?

[betsuni]

276. When did that happen?

[LSFL]

189. Come on.

He was a breath away from saying Obama was "well spoken ".

[whathehell]

191. '"Come on' nothing..

In addition to overreacting to what he DID say, it seems you'te now ready to put words in his mouth that he didn't? -- Sorry, not playing.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

198. Putting words in people's mouths is a favorite pastime around here.

Some only hear what they want to hear.

[whathehell]

202. It's important to call it out when you see it. n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

204. Abso-fuckin-lutely!! And I do call it out most days... just tiring sometimes.

[whathehell]

209. Yes, and that's good. n/t

[betsuni]

205. Well, you don't have to do that.

Don't put words in people's mouths or only hear what you want to hear.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

207. Couldn't agree more.

[uponit7771]

131. Bashing isn't questioning

[whathehell]

183. No, and criticizing isn't necessarily "bashing" either. n/t

[Demsrule86]

176. Absolutely, Democrats should not bash Pres. Obama...and independents sure as hell

should never do this. Obama was a great president and had certain lefties who complain on social media (not you) had his back in 10, I can only imagine the additional good he would have done. He did a great job with what he had but he could have had so much more if Democrats would stop skipping midterms and expecting the president to be superman and get them every damn thing they want in the first two years. It is also insulting to our Democratic people of color to bash the first Black president...and by the way, I am sick of the criticism of Pres. Clinton as well. He was also kneecapped in the first mid-term.

[whathehell]

182. Questioning or criticizing is not "bashing"

and again, NO one is above it...

I voted for Obama for Senator in my home state of Illinois...I chose him over Hillary in the '08 primary and voted for him twice for President -- He's terrific, but he's not God and I refuse to act like it or demand that anyone else do so.

[Demsrule86]

225. It is bashing. When you call the party a 'failure' and make a dog whistle remark about President

Obama it is bashing. We are in an election year and should not be tearing down the party...not if we want to win in November and in 20.

[whathehell]

228. Sorry, I simply don't agree, and no number of assertios to the contrary

or bogus calls of "dog whistles" are going to change that.

[treestar]

90. Bernie is the Sacred Cow

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

97. Hardly, but Bernie is extremely popular & deserves at least a modicum of respect.

[pnwmom]

102. President Obama deserves more respect from Bernie Sanders than to have been

praised as a "candidate" and damned as part of 15 years of Democratic failure.

[LiberalLovinLug]

110. IMO it is racially based to ASSUME Sanders gave more weight to Obama's part in the decline of votes

And that it MUST be because he was black.

He was a part of the Democratic party. If the party went into a decline before and also DURING Obama's term, then he SHOULD be included in any criticism. But I forgot, any criticism because of their decline, is to be labeled "attacking".

[pnwmom]

112. I'm not assuming anything about Bernie's motives. I'm reacting to what he SAID.

Obama left a country much stronger than the one he was handed by Bush.

It was the voter disenfranchisement of MILLIONS, through vote suppression, gerrymandering, and winner-take-all electoral contests, that led to Hillary's loss.

That, and the Comey letter and the Russian attack on the election.

[treestar]

116. Bernie should be included in the blame too

he did join the party to run for POTUS and he should be included in any criticism too.

[LiberalLovinLug]

117. That's a reach

He is an Independent, and he pays dearly for that from many, especially on here. He ran as a Democrat because he most agrees with that party and votes with them 99% of the time, and it was perfectly within Democratic party rules. In fact he did them a favor as he had offers to run for the Green party, or he could have run as an Independent, which would have definatey split the vote, and Hillary would not have even won the popular vote.

He has been increasingly critical of the party through the years as they have slowly moved away from their traditional principles. IF you regard him as a Democrat because of him adopting the party during the primary (which lets face it you do not) it would mean that you seem to think self reflection is an awful thing. Even when things are not working out right. You can't have it both ways.

[treestar]

121. He is having it both ways

He caucuses with the party and is a long term member entitled to criticize. But he is not a member and is independent. He uses the party infrastructure to run for President, but his supporters (haven't heard him do it) demand changes in that infrastructure to meet their expectations and a few even claim it was "stolen" from him.

He mostly agrees with the party? What does he agree on? He seems to think it an unmitigated disaster.

LOL the party is supposed to be grateful? How would he have gotten more votes as a Green Party candidate than Jill Stein did? He would not have had the exposure of debating Hillary, as Jill did not.

[LiberalLovinLug]

126. He had higher approval ratings than both Hillary and Donald

And he was ignored by the MSM for the first half of his campaign. If you don't think that he would have siphoned a significant number of votes from traditional Democratic voters, many that were disillusioned with Obama's perceived abandonment of the left, you are delusional. He even may have forced a seat at one of the debates because of his popularity. But thats neither here nor there.

Polifact on Sanders being a Democrat:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/feb/23/bernie-sanders-democrat/

So can Sanders accurately claim to be unaffiliated with a political party while still running for the Democratic nomination and sometimes calling himself a Democrat?

It may seem oxymoronic, but yes, he can.

................


The party backed Sanders’ 1996 re-election bid over one of their own. Burlington lawyer and Democrat Jack Long, after being informed that the party was committed to Sanders, told the Washington Post that he felt like he was "caught in a Kafka play." Sanders wouldn’t have another Democratic opponent until 2004.

By 1997, Sanders was still not a member of the House Democratic Caucus nor a Democrat. But he voted with the party more often than the average Democrat (95 percent of the time opposed to 80 percent). Keeping good to their promise, Democratic leadership gave Sanders a subcommittee chairmanship over a freshman Democrat.

When he ran for the Senate a decade later in 2006, still as an independent, the party worked to stop Democratic candidates from running against him, and he was endorsed by numerous state and national Democrats.

So he agrees with the party even more than the average Democratic rep!

[meadowlark5]

229. He was unvetted - no one knew anything about him because he was ignored by MSM and opposition resear

You guys can beat that approval rating stuff into the ground. It doesn't matter. Had he been the nominee the stuff Trump's support/propaganda machine would have found, dug up, spun and used would not have been flattering and would have been damaging. He's a socialist. He was a radical youth, he was kind of a bum in his youth. No one knew Bernie. If he runs again and gets the nom. People will know Bernie. I wonder if Bernie is ready for his reputation to be forever sullied by his past made present. Again, if he thinks that will all be overlooked, he didn't pay attention to Hillary's run very closely.

[LiberalLovinLug]

233. Hillary was different because they had years, decades, of conditioning their flock against her

They, along with Sanders probably did not think he had a chance in hell against the Clinton machine. He ran to spread his more progressive vision. All the Super Delegates buying in early, her pal Debbie running things in the DNC just to make sure, and that lack of coverage. And on top of that he did not try and mask his allegiances to socialist policies, or even the term. Yet he still came out on top. To me that was astounding in America. I think partly it was due to the anti-establishment fever that was sweeping the country. And that being seen as an outsider (even though he's been in Washington a long time) 'trumped' his 'socialist' label.

But my point is that they would have to scramble to find that dirt. Because they too would have been caught off guard if Bernie had pulled off a miracle. I don't think a few months of digging and smears, fake or not, can compare to the systematic brainwashing of millions of 'heartland' Americans over decades against Hillary.

All that said, and I think the US lost a yuuuuge opportunity to swing the pendulum back away from corporatization, I don't think Bernie should run again. They really really need new blood. New faces on the MSM to represent the party. I just wish there were some younger version of Bernie waiting in the wings.

[meadowlark5]

235. I still don't think he was talked about enough or in depth enough by anyone but that will be

a difference of opinion between the two of us I suppose And there would have been plenty of time to dig up dirt. Look how much came out on Trump in that amount of time from his nomination. Of course it didn't hurt him with his loyal army of useful idiots.

But I agree. I wish we had some younger versions of and slightly modified (bernie) or younger Joe Biden. Not only their age, but Biden has been mocked as a buffoon by late night comics and considered a gaffer. How much of that will be brought back if he runs?

I don't know who will be a good dem candidate. Some that are talking, I truly question whether they really have a chance.

[EffieBlack]

238. You think they'd have to scramble? That they don't already have the dirt?

They already have everything they need on him - and every other Democrat they think could possibly run.

They aren't amateurs at this. They have large, well-paid OppoResearch teams who do nothing but dig up dirt on anyone they think could possibly get in the race.

All they have to do is drop the dime when they need to.

[LiberalLovinLug]

244. Yes, I'm sure they did but where was the bite?

They already were shouting the word "SOCIALIST!" all over Fox News from what I remember. And it had no effect. (I was surprised) That was the deepest cut they could inflict on him. I'm sure they'd have invented some fake news like they did with Hillary, but I still contend that years, decades, of brainwashing is not comparable to months. And he had a cushion of a lead in popularity. What could they have on him that would come close to Trump's behaviour? If branding him a socialist, which he gladly accepted, couldn't sting him then what? The investigation brought on by a shady Republican against Jane involving buying property to expand a local college - meant not for personal gain even if something was found? What else? I'm sure they'd invent something, but IMO it wouldn't have been enough

[EffieBlack]

245. You think the only thing that would hurt him was to be called a "Socialist?"

Wow.

Trust me. Let Sanders look like he's a serious candidate and they'll come at him like nothing he's ever seen. And I don't think he has the chops to handle it - they'd destroy him in a month.

[LiberalLovinLug]

247. So....tell me what else?

He never held a high ranking position like Secretary of State so there could be no blame for foreign policies or actions like Hillary was susceptible to.
He never was a former first person, let alone married to Bill Clinton. He was not saddled with any decades long stewing conspiracy theories about murder etc... He also, if he had won the primary, would have been seen as a champion of the 'little guy' overcoming the scales tipping Clinton establishment machine, which would have given him street cred with disgruntled dems as well as independents.

Okay I trust you. Please inform us of this secret information you know about that would have destroyed him in a month.

[EffieBlack]

248. Wow. Ok

For your sake, I hope that Sanders doesn't run - you're heart's going to break when you realize that St. Bernard is human with faults and secrets that can be magnified, twisted, and exploited by political operatives who know what they're doing.

[whathehell]

283. 'Unvetted"?...He was, and is, the US Senator from Vermont

and has been in the US Congress for decades!....Being unknown
to those not paying attention doesn't mean one is "unvetted"

[EffieBlack]

285. He was unvetted

And suggesting that anyone who didn’t know much about Bernie Sanders just wasn’t “paying attention” is a stretch. People didn’t know much about Sanders because he hadn’t done anything of note for anyone to pay attention to.

Btw, he’s still unvetted.

[whathehell]

288. By what standard?. .Simply asserting something doesn't make it true.

We're expected to back up our claims here -- Unquestioned "authority" is not accepted.

.A US senator in the Congress for twenty years is hardly "unvetted".
That person has a public record going back decades..

The "stretch" is saying "If I don't know about him, he must be 'unvetted'...Sorry, that doesn't work.

[meadowlark5]

291. Yes it does

Unvetted, too, means the general public doesn't know the candidate. The general public doesn't know the details of the candidate's ideology or voting record or history of legislation or their past.

Trump's camp didn't go after Bernie because he helped take votes from Hillary, whether that be not voting or giving a vote to Stein or Johnson. Hillary couldn't go after him because she couldn't risk alienating his already alienated supporters. The news wasn't going to waste time on Bernie when they already had 2 candidates with enough background to fill the 24hr news cycle.

No one knew Bernie. And if you think people should get online and read about him, that's ridiculous.

We have a #metoo movement and I would bet my house that whoever is doing oppo research has a great campaign about his erotic writings to drop if he becomes too much of a threat to Trump or whatever GOP slob runs in 2020. Among other things from his past. They won't call him a socialist, they will use the word communist.

He won't skate through this on his present day persona.

[whathehell]

293. Huh?...Yes what does?..Are you claiming that simply saying

something DOES make it true?

If that's what you really believe, I think we shouldn't even attempt to communicate, as it seems we're from exceptionally different worlds.

[meadowlark5]

294. You were saying, at least the way I understand it, is we are saying he's unvetted

Because of unknowns to the general public. And to you that doesn't constitute as unvetted just because we say he's unvetted.

If I misunderstood, I apologize. If that's what you meant, then yes - we have no reason to continue to discuss anything. You feel he's squeaky clean and will have no problems because he's been a senator for decades and known it that capacity - I believe otherwise.

[betsuni]

287. Decades in the Senate, sounds establishment.

Uh oh!

[True Blue American]

172. If Bernie

Is an independent why didn’t he run as one?

He also lied about going back to the Senate as a Democrat.

I base my posts on facts.

[LiberalLovinLug]

234. Why cannot you and others just accept him as the exception to the rule?

Its not like there is a whole group of them that vote with Democrats but call themselves Independent. He's an odd ball, a free radical. He will never change. (And the FACT is that it was his campaign manager that spoke out of turn to say he would remain a Democrat, not Bernie himself). And through the years he has gained the respect of Democrats in Washington to the point of them appointing him to leadership roles over other Democrats. They seem to be able to live with his quirkiness, why can't you? The fact that he votes with Democrats more than some Democrats should be enough in and of itself. Its just a letter.

[True Blue American]

237. You answered your own question

That is why. I have no use for radicals in the Democratic Party.

I prefer well Educated people that get things accomplished.

Sitting in Congress for 30 years with no prior accomplishments and little to show for 30 years is not it.

Having a wife that has been indicted for fraud does not help.

[EffieBlack]

239. If a politician is still a "radical" after 30 years, he's doing something wrong

The point of radicalization is to make change. If you've spent 30 years being a radical, you haven't been very successful at changing anything.

I feel the same way about John McCain's "Maverick" status. He's supposedly been a "maverick" for 30 years but if you're still supposedly bucking the system after all this time, you haven't been very effective at changing it.

[treestar]

114. So is the Democratic party and its candidates

Especially President Obama.

[whathehell]

216. Nah..

I think it's PBO who occupies that position here..

As I said earlier, I voted for him in every race he ran in, including the '08 primaries, but he's not a god and it's not blasphemy to speak
of him without genuflecting.
.

[treestar]

219. People tend to see what they expect

Heck there was plenty of Obama criticism here. It started with the ACA not being enough.

[whathehell]

220. The criticism of Obama was directed toward a couple of his policy

positions, but I see (and saw) few, if ANY attempts to demonize
him, and NONE with the frequency or intensity of those aimed at Bernie...There's really no comparison.

[treestar]

230. Obama was accused of spinelessness, etc.

I liked him a lot so I saw it; same with Bernie; if you like him a lot, you will see it more quickly.

[whathehell]

254. Again, I never heard the word "spineless", certainly not from

anyone on the Left..I heard the word "cautious", "'over-cautious", maybe, but not a flat out insult like that, no.

[EffieBlack]

240. He was CONSTANTLY smeared, even by progressives

He was called weak, spineless, a tool, easily manipulated, "Charlie Brown" to Lucy and the football, etc.

[whathehell]

253. I must be getting my news from different sources, then,

because I never heard or experienced any "constant smearing' from anyone but the Right. I certainly never read or heard a progressive call him "a tool" or "spineless" -- If I had, I wouldn't have read or listened to that source again..

[EffieBlack]

255. Yes, you must be.

He was called those very things right here on DU.

[whathehell]

256. I guess so..I saw people on DU get frustrated, even angry with him but, but

I never saw insults like that hurled at him and if they were, I would think those piosts would be deleted.

[EffieBlack]

257. No, they weren't

Lots of DUers were pretty pissed off with him in 2009-10. I spent a lot of time debating them and trying to explain why they were being unreasonable. In 2010 many progressives were threatening to - and later claimed that they did - either refuse to vote in the midterms or voted for a Republican or third party because they wanted "to teach Obama a lesson."

And, very interestingly, a lot of those criticizing Obama most harshly claimed that Hillary would have been a much better president and kept talking about "buyers remorse." Pretty ironic in light of subsequent events.

[betsuni]

258. He was regularly called a Trojan Horse.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026687597

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

96. Except Bernie didn't bash Obama... so bashing Bernie incessantly is completely unjustified.

It's not like he bashed Obama for not speaking out loudly enough about Russian interference and all you heard was... <crickets>

[pnwmom]

166. Yes he did. Obama was the leader of the Democrats for 8 of the 15 years

that Bernie said represented Democratic failure -- even though Obama during the 8 years pulled the country out of the greatest recession since the Great Depression, AND got a universal healthcare bill passed despite solid GOP opposition.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

167. Democratic failure? Musta missed that.

[Gothmog]

75. Sanders' attacks on President Obama are a great reason to not support him

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

98. Okay, that was funny!!

[Gothmog]

109. We will see-Sanders has alienated a very large segment of the base

I was a delegate to the national convention and the Clinton campaign had a great "whipping infrastructure" that warned us of actions by the Sanders delegates. I was warned 15 minutes before it happen of the Sanders delegates plan to boo Congressman John Lewis. Sanders was told about this stunt and refused to take any action to stop it.

I am still pissed that the assholes on JPR cheered this stunt and applauded it. https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/hey-john-lewis-karmas-a-mf-aint-it/ People have long memories

[mcar]

148. That is unforgivable!

[Gothmog]

151. The delegate who was my "whip" now works for the state party

He and I will be speaking out about this event if sanders is on the ballot in Texas

[ellie]

157. Who boos John Lewis?

Jesus Christ.

[Gothmog]

163. It happened a couple of times at the Democratic National Convention

On the first night, I got a text from my whip warning me of the planned booing of Congressman John Lewis about 15 minutes before it happened. This was a planned demonstration. I later heard that the DNC went to Sanders and asked him stop this event and he refused. Later, Congressman Lewis was being interviewed near the civic center area and was booed.

Again, the idiots on JPR cheered this stunt and was happy to see Congressman Lewis attacked.

I attended an event where I got to hear Congressman Lewis tell his story about preaching to chickens at civil rights museum. I got some great pictures of Congressman Lewis with Congressman Ellison and Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

[betsuni]

161. Unforgivable.

Who do they think they are.

[True Blue American]

173. That was sickening.

Thank you for a birds eye view of what went on in the Sanders camp.

[NurseJackie]

212. For me: another.

[yardwork]

103. Where are Bernie's tax returns?

[Gothmog]

164. Good question

[uponit7771]

130. What Bernie said was pretty messed up in context

[Lil Missy]

170. OK.

[Squinch]

284. That phrase has become much like the phrase, "Fake news!" yelled whenever

something true and cringe-worthy is pointed out.

Bernie bashed Democrats. His statement was ignorant. He could spare himself the "Bernie bashing" by not bashing Democrats.

Today, it seems disapproving of Bernie's constant and tone deaf bashing and dividing of Democrats counts as "Bernie bashing."

Fine. Count me in.

[EffieBlack]

286. You are being DIVISIVE is also a new version of Fake News

[SidDithers]

4. DU rec...

for Joy Reid.

Sid

[First Speaker]

9. I think that tenth place, give or take, is a pretty accurate assessment...

...he wasn't Lincoln or FDR. He made some serious mistakes, particularly overestimating the patriotism of the GOP. But he brought the country out of a serious crisis, and restored respect for American leadership. Which makes, of course, today all the more unbearable...

[pnwmom]

10. Thanks to Obama, the country never fell as far as it did in the years before FDR,

so it's not really possible to make a head-to-head comparison.

But I give Obama full credit for ensuring that the Great Recession didn't become the second Great Depression.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

42. No doubt!

[Cha]

29. President Obama did a lot more than bringing

the country out of the bush/cheney Fuck up and restore Respect.

A lot more with what he had to work with.. and he would have done even more if those "dems" hadn't stayed home in 2010 to "teach him a lesson".

What they did was bring on the onslaught of never ending Obamacare Repeals, Obstruction like never before, and another rwinger SCOTUS. They shot themselves and the whole Planet in their feet.

[True Blue American]

113. 1,2,3

1-President Obama
2- President Clinton
3- President Carter

I base my choice on accomplishments, brilliance and Character is 3RD.

But,since I go way back, FDR was the greatest of all time. Kennedy died much too soon and Johnson gave us Civil Rights.

President Obama the ACA!

[Hekate]

13. KnR for Joy Reid

[progressoid]

15. For the record, some ex-Democrat didn't say Obama wasn't more than just a charasmatic leader.

But this is more about what we feel some ex-Democrat said rather than what some ex-Democrat actually said.

[pnwmom]

17. His words were very carefully chosen -- and very dismissive of the President's accomplishments.

He said Obama was an extraordinary "candidate." And he said the "business model" of the last 15 years was a failure. He's allowing the listener to fill in the logical blanks.

[progressoid]

20. "he was obviously an extraordinary candidate and a brilliant guy"

So you can read that two ways. Either it was a backhanded insult or that because Obama was such an extraordinary and brilliant guy, people didn't notice that we lost over a 1000 seats in the last decade.

[pnwmom]

23. Saying he was an extraordinary "candidate" was a backhanded insult.

It wasn't Obama's fault that, at the state level, the Democrats were losing ground.

While we were concentrating our efforts at the top of the tickets, they were filling the school boards and municipal positions with tea party people. And that strategy worked.

[progressoid]

26. And he didn't say it WAS Obama's fault.

While we were concentrating our efforts at the top of the tickets, they were filling the school boards and municipal positions with tea party people. And that strategy worked.

That's EXACTLY what Bernie was talking about. The Democratic Party's "business model" didn't fight for those seats on the local and state level. Dean's 50 state strategy was long gone. And even our efforts "at the top of the tickets" didn't work. We lost a lot of Senate and House seats as well.

[pnwmom]

32. The way he juxtaposed his comments about the failure of the party and Obama as a "candidate"

was a clever way to disparage Obama while preserving deniability.

He didn't say Obama was an extraordinary or good or even adequate PRESIDENT. He only said he was a great candidate. And he slammed the whole party as a failure.

[whathehell]

38. Did you ever consider the possibility

that his remarks were meant to describe MORE than the Obama Presidency?

Words and phrases like "fifteen years" and "the Democratic Party" do suggest that.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

43. Doesn't "suggest" anything. It's clear as hell & shameful some here wilfully ignore plain english.

[whathehell]

45. I agree

I was just trying to be polite.

[pnwmom]

48. The 15 years included Obama's 8, and Obama was the leader of the party.

Bernie is still Bernie. With his tendency to speak down to and dismiss African American voters, he won't do any better in the next primaries than he did in 2016.

[whathehell]

49. The party is more than the presidency

Beyond that fact, I do not, like many here, share your view of Bernie as "racist", in fact, i find it absurd. Given our difference there, I doubt we have more to say to each other on the matter.

[pnwmom]

50. He isn't racist. He views everything through a class/income prism

and thinks that his economic plans are sufficient to lift all boats. They aren't.

[whathehell]

53. I'm glad you concede that, at least

That said, I happen to agree with most of Bernie's economic views. I don't know that they would "lift all boats", but I can't think of any one thing would, can you?.. Seriously.

[pnwmom]

169. Neither you nor Bernie seem to understand the issue that many minority voters have

with him. He doesn't seem to understand that even within a particular economic class, minority people are much worse off than whites. Middle class black people are less likely to own homes, because of discrimination by banks. Wealthy black families still worry that they or their children could end up dead from a traffic stop.

Bernie's economic plans won't do anything to address these problems. In Mississippi, every time people tried to bring up topics like these, he just changed the subject back to economics. He also doesn't understand that the black "establishment" is a key part of the Democratic base.

https://apnews.com/6a937194f7ff4ed2a74635257a19db90

As a comparison, Williams said Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a possible 2020 candidate, called to congratulate her after her election. “It struck me that she’d be calling a new state senator in Georgia,” Williams said.

Sanders answered that he doesn’t need “the establishment,” regardless of race, and said most voters are “estranged” from the two-party system anyway.

As with Sanders’ comments on Obama, some of the rub is as much about emphasis as substance. Seated with Lumumba, the senator was asked about the marginalization of black LGBTQ citizens. He shifted the question to people “you didn’t talk about” like “people working two or three jobs” and “people who spend 50 percent of their limited income on housing.” He repeatedly turned discussion of fighting racism to fighting poverty.

“If all I hear about is ‘the working class,’ and it seems he’s talking to just one segment, then it’s easy to feel he’s not talking to me,” said Williams, the Georgia Democrat, explaining that she cannot “separate my blackness” from where she fits in the economy.

SNIP

Black voters, Reed said, must recognize that “we can’t elect a president by ourselves” and that any victorious candidate must “appeal to more than just us.” But any presidential hopeful, Reed said, must understand that black voters “will look for somebody that looks out for our interests.”

----

[whathehell]

184. Neither you nor many minority voters here seem to understand

that Bernie is neither blind nor indifferent to issues of racial and social justice and he's been ACTING on that for decades, a fact I've seen dismissed here with "that was then, this is now"

That said, the Democratic Party is rooted in economic AND
social justice issues and it's about EVERY citizen including whites in the working class.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

168. Guess we'll find out.

[MrsCoffee]

64. Maybe if this was a one off.

Are we now pretending that bashing Democrats and the Democratic Party isn’t one of Sanders favorite pastimes? He tried to get Obama, a sitting Democratic President, primaried.

There are reasons his words are upsetting many Democrats.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

41. Precisely! Thanks for pointing that out.

[whathehell]

55. No, he did not..

I think he both likes and respects Obama, but I think he disagreed with him on SOME economic issues, and frankly, so did I..I thought he was a bit too conservative...Beyond that, I liked and respected him VERY much.

[whathehell]

31. Is calling him a "brilliant guy" an insult, too?

This is getting humorous.

[pnwmom]

36. He's a brilliant guy. So what. Bernie was careful not to use any words that praised

Obama's effectiveness, or achievements, or that recognized the challenges he faced, taking office in the midst of the Great Recession. Instead, he spoke of Obama's being an extraordinary "candidate" and brilliant -- in the context of the 15 years of Democratic "failure".

[whathehell]

44. So being called "brilliant" is chump change in your view?

I don't know, "brilliant" is pretty high praise where I come from. That said, maybe he didn't feel the need to mention Obama Everything because his speech was about FIFTEEN years of The Democratic Party, not just the eight of the Obama administration.

[pnwmom]

46. Obama was President just a year and a half ago. And Bernie was there to commemorate

MLK, not to dismiss the first African American President as an "extraordinary candidate" -- who presided over 8 of the 15 years of Democratic "failure."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

193. Apparently so!

[whathehell]

199. Yep, it seems up is down and down is up here at times.

and it does get tired.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

201. IKR!! What.The.Hell whathehell?!

[NewJeffCT]

93. Saying he was an extraordinary candidate

but saying nothing about him as president (not an extraordinary president, an excellent one, a very good one or even a good president) gives a person the implication that Obama was only good at being smart and an excellent candidate, but not at being president.

[kacekwl]

218. Not only about what Bernie said but now

about what he didn't say or what he meant to say or how he said it or how his arms moved or ...... This kind of stuff is beyond ridiculous.

[NewJeffCT]

63. By saying he was an extraordinary candidate, but not saying how he was as a president

he is saying by omission that he was less than extraordinary as president. By leaving out his record as president, he is implying that Obama was not good as president.

If he had said that Obama was an extraordinary candidate and president, or an extraordinary candidate and a very good president it would not be an issue.

[whathehell]

34. Obama served for eight, not fifteen years

so how Sanders' message is all about Obama is a mystery.

[Cha]

19. I've seen so many in the POC community

tweet that it was patronizing.. and that's why Joy Reid tweeted what she did.

Link to tweet

He was attacking the Dem Party the day after our huge Win in Wisconsin and we've been winning all year. Something BS neglects to say.. he only has negativity to pile on. And, he used the anniversary of the assassination of MLK to do it.

I'm beyond tired of it and I know I'm not alone.

[smirkymonkey]

79. No, you are not alone Cha.

I am tired of it too.

[Cha]

141. Hey smirky!

Aloha!

[True Blue American]

115. For sure, Cha

You are NOT alone!

[Cha]

142. Mahalo, True Blue American!

[True Blue American]

145. Cha

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

25. Never let the facts get in the way of a good Bernie bashing!!

[Cha]

30. The reality is.. I listen to what the POC have

said about this.. and I care how they feel about, instead others explaining what BS meant.

He was down there in Jackson, Mississippi bashing the Democratic Party the day after our big Win in Wisconsin, and we've been winning all year. He doesn't mention any of that.. just piles on the negatively.

[JCanete]

57. wow, yeah? All of them? I'm sure they all have the same thing to say about it. Or maybe you

pick and choose who counts as actual representation...who's a real voice and who's an outlier.

[whathehell]

35. Lol!

You got that right.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

37. Don't see how that contributes to party unity... we need to come together against our common enemy!

[whathehell]

39. It doesnt, of course..

but some are a tad shortsighted.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

40. Shortsighted? Or something else?

[whathehell]

56. I don't know..

It's complicated.

[R B Garr]

73. Yet it was Bernie attacking Democrats and Obama, so turn your question around.

Was it shortsighted? Or something else?

[Cha]

52. Yeah, tell that to BS. He's the one who went down Jackson, Mississippi

on the Anniversary of the assassination of MLK, telling the Democratic Party has been a failure for the last 15 years.. the very next day after we had a Big Win in Wisconsin and we've been winning all year.

Didn't mention any positive Accomplishments.. just piled on the negativity.

And, the POC community twitter feed I read.. weren't impressed that BS called President Obama "charismatic" said it was "patronizing".

Maybe he didn't mean how it sounded but that's the way many took it.. including myself.

It's not good if you have to go about explaining yourself the next day and having your fans explain it for you.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

59. I respect and agree with your last two points... that's fair. I would only point out

in response, given Bernie's civil rights record, dating all the way back to his youth, it would also be fair if some would also cut him just a little slack. To insinuate he's an insensitive rube, or even a bigot, as some here have done, is going a little too far IMHO.

Could Bernie have done better? Sure, I'll concede that. Indeed, we all should be sensitive to how people might take our words vs. what we really mean to say. I think you made that point quite well... again, completely fair.

[Demsrule86]

177. Did any of us go to an MLK event and then criticize the first Black president and the

call the Democratic Party a failure...there is nothing unifying in this message...and I listened to the entire speech which by the way sounded like his stump speeches mostly.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

190. When did Bernie call the Democratic Party a failure?

[Demsrule86]

223. This is the part...there is a transcript. I just quoted from an article.

"The senator for Vermont appeared to criticise the first black US President as he branded the Democratic Party a "failure"
Speaking in Jackson, Mississippi, he said Democrats had lost a record number of legislative seats"
The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure,' said the Vermont Senator
"People sometimes don't see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But beyond that reality..."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

242. Common Dems, gimme a quote from BERNIE, not from an article.

[Demsrule86]

251. It is Bernie's words...it is on the video you know. He did say it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

259. Nope, sorry, Bernie did not say the Democratic Party has been a failure...

He said the Democratic Party's BUSINESS MODEL, not the PARTY, has been a failure in the past... BIG difference!!

[betsuni]

261. He thinks the Democratic Party is a failure.

From a speech at the People's Summit in Chicago last year:

"The current model and the current strategy of the Democratic party is an absolute failure."

[betsuni]

260. This is bizarre. Do some people not know how quotes work?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

262. Apparently not.

[betsuni]

265. The words in quotation are the same as the spoken words on tape.

That's how it works.

[betsuni]

266. Bernie: "The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has

been a failure." Similar to what he said last year: "The current model and the current strategy of the Democratic Party is an absolute failure."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

267. That's the money quote... which was followed by significant audience APPLAUSE IN AGREEMENT...

but never let the facts get in the way of a good Bernie bashing!!

[betsuni]

268. So you admit the quote is real!

Good for you. It's a fact Bernie said what he said.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

269. Obviously, so why change the wording from "business model" to "Democratic Party" is a failure?

[betsuni]

271. "The business model ... of the Democratic Party ... has been a failure."

I don't understand what you mean.

[snort]

92. But if you watch this

it gets harder to hate him and that just won't do.

[Demsrule86]

178. Not really ...not at the moment. I watched the entire thing and got so angry I need to take a walk

[murielm99]

16. I am happy to provide

another rec for this.

[Cha]

21. I'm so glad you posted this from Joy Reid,

pnwmom.. I saw it last night on one of the Twitter feeds I read.

They were not happy at all with what BS said in Jackson, Mississippi on the anniversary of the assassination of MLK.

And, I care what they have to say about it.. not somebody trying to explain what he meant.

[ProudLib72]

22. Instances like these make me wish we had a solid pick for 2020

We handed Bernie his relevance in 2016, and he ran with it. If we had someone who could stand against him right now and call him on his crap, I feel we would be in a better position. Yet he continues to (mis) represent the party. This is frustrating!

[KitSileya]

33. His followers would just howl about a coronation

Nevermind that they insist he should be the nominee in 2020 already - consistency isn't a strong point with the uber left.

[NewJeffCT]

65. Yes

I've already heard Sanders' followers dismiss Kamala Harris, Corey Booker, Kennedy Jr and Deval Patrick as having been "anointed" by the DNC and the establishment.

I'm not sure how 4 candidates can be anointed for 1 role?

[ProudLib72]

95. Of course they have

Those people kind of threaten the savior of the Dem party, Bernie. Funny thing about that, though, he is not a Democrat. So he represents an anomaly that, for some strange reason, seems very attractive to a large number of people who want to be in the Dem party but cannot stand to actually belong to the Dem party because it is "establishment". Maybe we should start calling them the Ambiguous party?

[betsuni]

24. K&R

[Mike Nelson]

47. Odd...

...I never saw Barack Obama as a mainly charismatic type... I see him more as the nerd/intellectual. However, there are charismatic moments in his speeches; he could rise to that... I thought Bernie had more "charisma" than Obama or Hillary! Joy Reid has a lot of charisma, too -probably more than any of them...

[JCanete]

54. For the record, it took Joy Reid longer to jump on this than I would have expected. Yay Joy,

fighting the good fight. I am almost certain that her characterization of what Sanders said is way the fuck off base, but that doesn't matter to her one lick. She has a job to do, and she's doing it.

[LexVegas]

61. ...

[uponit7771]

133. There wasn't a "but" in his statement !?!? Yaw acK like folk caint hear !!!!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

263. Love Joy, but lost a little respect for her over this obvious fabrication.

[EffieBlack]

270. What did she "fabricate?"

[betsuni]

272. The gaslights are on full blast in here.

[drray23]

62. any way you look at it, its a clumsy politiical move

Even if you go with the assumptioin that Bernie was not trying to criticize President Obama by relegating him to a charismatic empty suit and ignoring his legacy, it is still pretty damming. Either Bernie did it on purpose - and that would not be the first time he criticizes the party - or he clumsily walked into it. The fact that many people perceived it as a direct attack is what matters. If he really did not mean to attack Obama then he should have phrased it better.

[JCanete]

91. no, not really, anyway I look at it is not anyway you look at it, and some people were guaranteed,

Joy Reid in particular, to look at it a certain way. When you are looking for something you can probably cherry pick to find it.

[Skittles]

136. ?

why was she "guaranteed"?

[JCanete]

137. That is my impression of Joy Reid and her reception of Sanders onto the stage in the first place.

She has pretty much always rolled her eyes and disparged him and those frustrated with politics as usual, and I find everything I've ever seen her do to be an aspect of carrying water for the institution. She is a company woman. I expect her to find fault with Sanders on those grounds alone.

[Skittles]

138. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[treestar]

231. The same way you are looking at it with the Bernie-support frame

"politics as usual" "company woman" "carrying water for the institution" you are calling her all of that to frame a perception of her responses.

[JCanete]

236. That is true, based upon my opinion of her.

Of course, I'm not Joy Reid, speaking to a wider audience, and if I were, I would try
to be far more nuanced and generous, and will still try to be in the future with her. One thing I would like to point out is that I am not intending to impugn her character. I don't think she's a liar. I think she believes what she sells. When it comes to Sanders, she finds him an unnecessary irritation and annoyance, because she believes in the DNC as it stands, and I think she sees everything he does through that lens. What I never do see from her on this though is any kind of balance or what I would consider in depth, personally honest criticism. I don't think she's trying to consider counter perspectives. She is selling a narrative about him and far left liberals...that again, no doubt she believes. I think she gets really team centric, and she did so when it was a race between Clinton and Obama, only that time she had sided with Obama, and found objectionable behavior in Clinton's campaign. Did she find objectionable behavior in both? did she this time around?


For my part I really don't listen to voices who simply bash democrats and don't give them the due courtesy of their humanity and intentions, any more than I do to Joy Reid. I don't listen to Jimmy Dore for instance. I'm not particularly interested in one-sided opinion.

[stevenleser]

217. And thats the best possible spin which would be a pathetic display of political

Incompetence and insensitivity toward African Americans.

If you are going to refer to the first black President on MLK Day, you better be VERY careful about what you say and how you say it.

When we have our first LGBT President, if I give a speech on a day to commemorate LGBT rights or a remembrance of Mathew Sheppard or something similar, you can bet if I refer to that LGBT President it would be in very respectful terms that could not possibly be confused otherwise.

[mcar]

66. Best president of my lifetime

Thanks for linking to his many accomplishments, pnwmom. It is discouraging to see posts on other threads claiming he didn't do much.

[TCJ70]

68. Good thing it was also pointed out that he was extraordinary and brilliant. n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

69. The Pearl Clutching Is Getting Old

The continued in-fighting needs to stop.

There is ONE opponent.

ONE!

[pnwmom]

81. I agree. Bernie needs to stop clutching his pearls. nt

[ProfessorGAC]

108. Whooosh! (nt)

[Gothmog]

72. I miss having a real POTUS

President Obama was an amazing POTUS

[saidsimplesimon]

78. Thank you, pnwmom

I am very proud to support President Obama and Joy Reid.

[smirkymonkey]

80. K&R

And bookmarked!

Thank you!

[jalan48]

83. Joy works for Comcast, #31 on the Fortune 500. I'm sure Comcast loves the big tax break

it just received and it comes as no surprise that one of it's spokeswomen is trashing the candidate who is most vocal about raising taxes on corporations like Comcast.

[Cha]

154. Oh the old.. trying to kill the messenger

because you don't like that she's pointing out that there's a lot more to President Obama than BS' insensitive comments.

It's not working.

[R B Garr]

162. LOL CorPoratioNz!

That trendy way to minimize people who question Bernie—just mention corporations...

Now Joy is a spokesperson for tax cuts because she didn’t like Bernie’s dismissive description of Obama...how utterly tiresome.

[NurseJackie]

206. ...

[betsuni]

213. OMG #31 on the Fortune 500. This changes everything.

I'm, like, totally not listening to such a CORPORATIST SPOKESWOMAN any moar. Thank you ever so, jalan48!!!!!

[sheshe2]

84. Thank you to Joy Reid.

Obama. Best President in my lifetime.

[Gothmog]

87. Yeah for Joy Reid

[erronis]

94. I feel like this OP has been taken over by negatives and allegations and repeats

Whenever there is so much activity that looks like duplicated comments on one subject or another it makes me think that there is a pattern. Perhaps human and natural. Perhaps knee/auto jerk.

I supported Bernie during the primaries and then Hillary.

Given the current state of affairs in the US politic, I can't support anyone who doesn't have a liberal and progressive platform and provable background.

I will work for the best candidates as they come forward.

Yelping back and forth about someone who got "in the way" of a prior election is not helpful. Some facts are useful but the constant chit-chat seems almost designed to reduce real conversations.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

99. The piling on does seem a bit over the top.

[HenryWallace]

139. Hang in there bud....

Reading the tread top to bottom one is left with a feeling of disgust.... its a pathetic display.

Two year of denial wrapped in morbid nostalgia and neo-Mccarthism.

Stick to issues, they are on our side; stress facts rather than beliefs.. any of this sounds familiar?

Don't take their bate...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

143. Good advice... thanks Henry!

[The Mouth]

100. The whole package

But Charisma is easier for people to notice and focus on than organizational skill.

And not as nebulous and fraught with discord as policy and bills.

I think many of us here could take issue with one or more statements, positions or policy initiatives of President Obama's, but any of us could see that he was/is a magnificent politician- in the sense of one who's job it is to win elections and get policy implemented- both for themselves and for their party. *AND* he understood the process of getting ideas turned into law. Given the fanatical and overtly racist opposition he had to overcome to do anything at all.

As with Bill Clinton, and Reagan, he seemed to actually enjoy the fight of a campaign, very rare, most politicians seem to hate it.

[ananda]

106. I never found Obama charismatic.

He was calm, assured, and competent.

[MariaCSR]

107. Agreed.

He was definitely all those things.

[JI7]

127. And to me that calmness, thoughtfulness is what i found appealing

[uponit7771]

132. Thank you !!! I find him an inspiring and measured more than anything

[treestar]

232. You've got a point

the charisma and "rock star" characterizations likely arose in the right wing or the primary opposition.

[ismnotwasm]

111. K&R

[Tarheel_Dem]

118. Joy is so smart, which is why we almost always agree.

[SunSeeker]

124. K & R & bookmarked!

[BobTheSubgenius]

125. Of COURSE he is!

What he was able to accomplish while facing the most contrary, recalcitrant, and some would say anti-American (certainly Anti Average American, at least) Congress in history is more than remarkable. It's too bad this word is so overused, because it really is epic in size and grandeur.

If all he had ever done was show up for work on the first day of his administration, he would have accomplished a lot...and he did SO much more.

[Scurrilous]

129. K&R

[Progressive dog]

144. That momentary Democrat

continues to shock me.

[David__77]

159. Joy Reid was a momentary Democrat?

Did not know that.

[Progressive dog]

292. The momentary Democrat

shall not be named by me, but would be a person who (as the OP pointed out) criticized President Obama for his supposed lack of accomplishments.

[Billsmile]

146. Neoliberal

This term applies.

Think Jimmy Carter might not totally qualify as one.

[mcar]

149. Applies to whom?

And what, precisely, do you mean by that?

[stevenleser]

150. Nope, it doesn't apply. Neoliberalism is a belief in a particular kind of economics.

It's not a lazy catch all phrase for someone who isnt as left as we would like.

[pnwmom]

165. +1. /t

[Hortensis]

227. And by this century's standards, very conservative.

Which, of course, is why some throw it at Democrats as a slur. After all, it has the word "liberal" in it and means conservative.

A quick, reliable way to identify oneself as both ignorant and hostile to most Democrats.

[Cha]

153. You have no idea what you're

on about.

Just some silly insult you're throwing out at President Obama. Such a shame.

[NurseJackie]

203. Clearly. Not an iota. Nary a whit.

Just some silly insult you're throwing out at President Obama.

That's exactly what it is.


, Cha!

[Cha]

249. the world is full of them..

Brainwashed silly soundbytes.

What to do!

Jackie!

[David__77]

158. Some may be triggered by that word.

...

[stevenleser]

215. If triggered means knowing the meaning and that its use was incorrect

You would be right

[Demsrule86]

180. Jimmy Carter is a decent man but was not a good president and lost to Reagan.

We had 12 years in the political wilderness until a talented guy named Bill Clinton who was a good president arrived on the scene. I admire Carter, but I don't like him. And those who name a guy who lost his second term as their favorite president who was followed by Reagan or as I like to call him the destructor,, I just don't get that. When it became obvious that Lyndon Johnson couldn't win, he chose not to seek the nomination for a second term. it is pretty clear that Pres. Carter was in trouble from the beginning had he decide not to run for a second term, we might never have had the worst president until Trump-Reagan (although BushII is a close second)

[betsuni]

211. LOL NEOLIBERAL.

It is 2018, hello.

[David__77]

160. I think many here shared in joy when he was elected in 2008.

That goes for those who later voted for Sanders, too. He faced a hard campaign where he faced dirty, filthy politics all along the way.

I certainly wish he was still president!

[yardwork]

181. Don't use President Obama to refight the 2016 primary.

Sanders didn't face "dirty, filthy politics all along the way." That is Russian troll farm propaganda. And the 2016 primaries are over.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

192. Details, details!! Okay, back to bashin the #1 Democratic presidential hopeful for 2020!!

Woooohoooo!!

[NurseJackie]

200. ...

[stevenleser]

295. #2 hopeful

http://www.pollingreport.com/2020.htm

[whathehell]

185. For the record, most of us know that. n/t

[Gothmog]

210. AMJOY will be on soon

Link to tweet

[Quixote1818]

241. Joy used to say similar stuff about Hillary when she was running against Obama

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?action=printpage;topic=268862.0

[NurseJackie]

250. Who's running against Obama now?

[Gothmog]

273. Joy has a great show today