Enough Already!,,,,,,,,,

[Cryptoad]

Right now DU should be full of OP's on all the local and State Races, what we can do to help, contrasting candidates. But O hell No, seems like it a daily barrage of Love -Hate Bernie OP's and links to Twitter. Hell its only April, People. Lets get busy swelling up the 2018 Blue Tsunami!

[elleng]

1. Thanks, Cryptoad.

[TheBlackAdder]

78. It's ALWAYS the same 10 to 15 Users who are starting them, and they all jump on to contribute

[elleng]

81. Right. Glad to see one was locked,

told to move, and at same time, #### sprung up.

[Hortensis]

169. :) Cook Report just changed the ratings of 13 more districts!

ALL of those changes favoring Democrats.

Cook Report:



Full List of Changes:
CA-21: Valadao (R)
Likely R to Lean R

IA-02: Loebsack (D)
Likely D to Solid D

NV-03: OPEN (Rosen) (D)
Toss Up to Lean D

NV-04: OPEN (Kihuen) (D)
Lean D to Likely D

NJ-03: Tom MacArthur (R)
Likely R to Lean R

NJ-05: Josh Gottheimer (D)
Lean D to Likely D

NY-18: Sean Patrick Maloney (D)
Likely D to Solid D

NC-09: Robert Pittenger (R)
Likely R to Lean R

OH-10: Mike Turner (R)
Solid R to Likely R

WA-03: Jaime Herrera Beutler (R)
Solid R to Likely R

WA-05: Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R)
Likely R to Lean R

WI-07: Sean Duffy (R)
Solid R to Likely R

WV-03: OPEN (Jenkins) (R)
Solid R to Likely R

The good news for Republicans is that President Trump's approval rating has, on balance, ticked up from 38 percent to 40 percent since January as attention has shifted from unpopular GOP proposals on healthcare and taxes to the economy, tariffs and Stormy Daniels. Commensurately, Democrats' lead on the question of which party voters would support for Congress has shrunk from a dozen points in January to about eight points today.

The bad news for Republicans, of course, is that Trump's approval rating is still 40 percent and that they still trail Democrats on the generic ballot by eight points. That's enough to offset the GOP's edge from favorably drawn districts and endanger their 23-seat majority (by our estimate, Democrats would need to win seven to eight percent more votes for House to win 218 of 435 seats).

Moreover, in a reversal from the 2014 midterms, Democrats enjoy a wide voter enthusiasm gap. According to a new CNN/SSRS survey, 51 percent of Democrats and Democratic-leaners said they were "extremely" or "very" enthusiastic about voting in November compared to 36 percent of Republicans/GOP leaners. Young voters, Trump's weakest age segment, also express far more interest in casting ballots than they did four years ago.

If Democrats pick up at least eight Republican open seats (and today, eight of the 36 are leaning their way), they'll already be a third of the way to the 23 they need for a majority. Beyond those, there are 18 Republican incumbents in the Toss Up column and another 20 in the Lean Republican column —- including five in California, three in Texas and three in Virginia. Private partisan polling continues to show most GOP incumbents in much weaker positions than last cycle — even in districts Trump won. ...

Our latest ratings feature 55 competitive seats (Toss Up or Lean Democratic/Republican), including 50 currently held by Republicans and five held by Democrats. There are also three non-competitive seats poised to switch parties thanks to Pennsylvania's new map (PA-05 and PA-06 to Democrats, PA-14 to Republicans). Overall, Democrats would need to win 27 of the 55 competitive races to win a majority. We continue to view Democrats the slight favorites for House control.

http://cookpolitical.com/analysis/house/house-overview/april-house-overview-ratings-changes-13-districts

"... then you got to walk the walk, baby (ooh-ooh) ..."

[Blue_Adept]

2. I've been asking for this to happen since January

https://www.democraticunderground.com/125913316

I'd love to leave GD for awhile and just focus on races.

[Wwcd]

3. Lets clarify the division by listing all the statements bernie has made in support of the Dem Party

#1.
#2.
#3. chirp

Give the Dems a reason why we should not call out bernie as we see him.

He despises the Dem Party. Why should we not call out & question him?
Start there.

[TCJ70]

12. In the very statement hes being criticized for...

...he encourages people to come out and vote for Democrats.

[Wwcd]

19. When did he say that? Its was barely audible.

This is pretty basic.

[TCJ70]

20. Heres the transcript:

Sanders: The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. Now, what happened, people sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about one thousand seats in state legislatures all across this country. And you've got significant numbers of states, like Mississippi, where the governor, the legislature, the senators, are all Republicans.

Now how does this happen at a time when the Republican agenda is the agenda of the billionaire class and is at war with the working people? How does it happen that a party that wants to give tax breaks to billionaires and throw millions of people off their health insurance actually wins elections?

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up! It's not just in Mississippi, although lately we've seen Democrats beginning to show up in Alabama, but it's also showing up in Kansas and in (???), and that is beginning to happen, so what we are doing is trying against a whole lot of opposition - you know, the establishment doesn't go quietly into the twilight - but we are trying to open the doors of the Democratic party to young people, to millennials.

Unless you’re prepared to say we haven’t had turnout problems in past midterm elections...it’s pretty clear that he wants people to vote for Democrats.

[EffieBlack]

27. In answer to a question of how he's going to energize Millennials and "reimagine" the Dem Party

Bernie said: "So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up! It's not just in Mississippi, although lately we've seen Democrats beginning to show up in Alabama, but it's also showing up in Kansas and in (???), and that is beginning to happen, so what we are doing is trying against a whole lot of opposition - you know, the establishment doesn't go quietly into the twilight - but we are trying to open the doors of the Democratic party to young people, to millennials."

So, his "reimagining" of the party and energizing Millennials is to "make sure Democrats ... show up" and " open the doors of the Democratic party to young people, to millennials.""

That's it?

Lost in the debate about his questionable comments about President Obama and the Democratic Party, is the utter shallowness of this comment.

One of the biggest complaints about Sanders is that he's all talk but has no solutions. This answer doesn't help address that criticism. He sounds like a kid who didn't read the homework assignment but hopes to talk his way out of it.

[TCJ70]

28. Welcome to the middle of a conversation.

I was asked where he encouraged people to vote for Democrats. I answered.

[EffieBlack]

32. Where did "he encourage people to vote for Democrats?"

[Wwcd]

35. It was either before or after he drove home his continued derision of all things Democratic.

He patted the Dems on the head a few times either before or after he spit in their faces.

He can't spin those statements fast enough to convince anyone but his base.

He is, he isn't.
He will, he won't.
He's for it, he's against it.

That's who he is.

[BamaRefugee]

40. Couldn't agree more. Used to listen to him on Thom Hartman and think

"wow, this guy could change some things!" but over the years, nope, nothing, ever.

[CentralMass]

127. Washington Post The top 15 Democratic presidential hopefuls for 2020, ranked

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/03/23/the-top-15-democratic-presidential-candidates-for-2020-ranked-2/

Bernie is #1

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

128. And for very good reason... love the #2 too!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[CentralMass]

130. +1

[Fla Dem]

139. Popularity is one thing, elect-ability is entirely different.

No Bernie, No Joe and yes, No Hillary. Time to turn the page for a new generation of Democratic leaders. There were a few mentioned in the article I would support.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. He couldn't even get the sentence out without hitching and then lecturing.

[Orsino]

65. Lecturing us about losing a thousand seats?

He even had the gall to suggest that Democrats need to get out and vote!

[Wwcd]

80. As his rallys of thousands failed to get out & vote.

He needs to start looking at himself before criticizing others.

[EffieBlack]

90. Saying Democrats need to get out and vote isn't a plan

The only appropriate response for it is "duh."

[Eliot Rosewater]

151. I agree with the OP and Bernie, I mean they are saying VOTE for ANY democrat NO MATTER WHAT

right?

No litmus test, no primarying sitting democrats who are most likely to win, right?

If so then I say hell yes, welcome aboard.



If not , if there is a single part of their message that does not say vote for ANY democrat NO matter what, then they are working against us.

[EffieBlack]

152. He's right that Democrats need to get out and vote

But that's not a plan. And it's certainly not a useful or well-thought-out answer to the question "What are you doing to mobilize millennials and to reimagine the Democratic party?"

If Bernie is supposed to be such a visionary leader of the party, shouldn't he have a better answer than "we have to vote Democratic?"

[Eliot Rosewater]

153. To be fair, I think he is usually short on details, isnt it true he has only implemented 3 bills to

law and two of them were naming post offices?


https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357

Yes, in the Senate a total of 3, two of them post office namings.

[EffieBlack]

155. That's the problem

He's all talk. And even when he talks, he pisses people off.

But we're supposed to just shut up and listen to the man who talks loud while saying nothing.

[Eliot Rosewater]

156. The problem with exerting ALL of your energy supporting someone who has NO support

in the system of government is nothing will get done.

I agree with almost all of his agenda on income inequality, but how to resolve it is where we differ.

I say lets get people on board, first.

[questionseverything]

157. the amendment that gave us community health centers money

in the aca was sponsored by Bernie

for the 20 million plus of us that fell thru the aca cracks

but if our lack of healthcare and suffering doesn't matter to you carry on

[Eliot Rosewater]

158. I am so fucking sick of being personally attacked on this board, over and over

[questionseverything]

165. amendments are as important as sponsoring bills when they make the bills better

pointing out Bernie has done some important stuff isn't a personal attack

[Demsrule86]

167. From what I can see, there are three things that became law. That does not inspire me.

But it has been a difficult time too.

[Orsino]

173. I hope we aren't judging Democrats by how much of their input the GOP allowed to become law.

Pushing for good things is always good, even when all it does is remind voters that we can do good things.

[Orsino]

172. He's given loads of advice to Dems.

It's not always welcome.

[EffieBlack]

175. Maybe instead of always giving advice he should listen for a change - and actually lend a hand

to HELP.

All he seems to do is talk - without saying anything new or particularly insightful. Talk is cheap.

[Orsino]

176. That's certainly the conventional wisdom.

That until he's a Democrat, he gets no input on Democratic issues or credit for any Democratic wins, and that he's either all talk or an agent provocateur demolishing all that is good in our party.

[EffieBlack]

178. I don't think he should have NO input.

But he does NOTHING but give input, much of it negative and non-constructive.

[Orsino]

171. "Don't boo--vote" wasn't a plan, either.

But it was good advice.

[EffieBlack]

174. President Obama didnt say Dont boo. Vote in response to a question about how he planned

to energize Millennials and reimagine the Democratic Party. It was a slogan he threw out at rallies and during speeches whenever the audience started to boo Republicans. And then he continued on with his substantive remarks.

On the other hand, that WAS the substance of Bernie’s remarks - it was the answer he gave in response to a question about his strategy. He wasn’t asked for “advice.” He was asked what he was DOING, and he had nothing to say but “Democrats need to show up and vote” something the questioner had no doubt figured out some time ago. It was a non answer that suggests he hasn’t thought this through.

[Orsino]

177. Yes, confusing slogans or general advice with actual plans is easy.

You can find plenty of substance in Bernie's plans. Some of it even made it into our platform.

[EffieBlack]

179. The platform was two years ago

He wasn't asked what he did two years ago. He was asked what he's doing to harness Miillennials' energy and to reimagine the Democratic Party NOW - and all he did was talk about Democratic Party "failure," Obama's charisma, how many seats were lost in the last 15 years and then said Democrats must show up and are showing up and people should run for office. Duh. Ya think?

That's a babbling non- answer that left the questioner and rest of the audience no more informed than they were when they walked in.

[Skittles]

101. make sure the Democrats what?

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

144. Thank u! This is first Ive come across full quote, and I was searching not only on DU but even

traditional news sources like NYT were reporting not on the statement but the reaction against it!

If X no. of people are willing to reduce their intellectual arguments to 144 characters then Im not sure how to work with that - its not surprising that discourse is reduced to nothing but zingers, gotchas, and one liners.

[TCJ70]

146. Theres a reason the critics refuse to post the whole thing...

...unless it’s buried in a sub-thread somewhere. It’s becuase the outrage is largely being manufactured.

[KPN]

50. +1

But also feel a bit guilty about weighing in at all. The OP is dead right!

[heaven05]

142. really??????????????

he criticized an ex-potus POTUS as a cause for Party "failure" and our Party as a "failure". What would b.s. have us do?

[TCJ70]

145. Vote

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up!

- Bernie Sanders 4/4/18

[heaven05]

149. I have

always voted...didn't need him to tell me to do that, as a basic right people fought for and people had to die for, black and white. So that's the reason the Democratic Party is a "failure" as a political model, not enough of us are voting. I have that right, do I? Oh well, on to more important issues like party unity in the face of this RW turn to a 21st century McCarthyistic Tea Party moles attack on our viability as a political Party in this nation of states called the United States....

We, as Democrats, along with the economic equality fixes all, berniecrat faction, are a strong and numerous fiber in the American fabric of cultures and politics. Our strength as a liberal progressive, left center leaning Party of american citizens, who are resisting this latest fascist attack on basic human decency now being degraded by three words, white supremacist trumpism, while tested, is holding its own. GOTV. Say it everyday is my motto. Only Democrats fight for decency well recognized by an open minded citizenry.

We are engaged in a vigorous defense of the basic human right to exist as a citizen of this nation of states as is guaranteed by the Constitution of those United States...regardless of politics, religion, race, gender or sex, altlife oriented. Blue Wave???I hope tsunami grade....as fair warning to those intent on just robbing in the name of G.O.P. who unfortunately are crooks, nazis, KKKmembers, alt right and capitalist RW con men and women worshipping Sinclair these days... spewing RW propaganda to 28 percent base of american citizen. One cell minds eating it up like treasonous clowns/tools are apt to do, never understanding, they are getting fleeced also.

YOU ARE THROUGH! Democrats will see to that. 2018-20.

[TCJ70]

161. Im glad you voted. The world doesnt revolve around you.

Not every message has to be tailored to you. You made the senator happy by voting. Deal with it.

I’d rather have him encouraging people to vote for Dems than not.

[heaven05]

170. nor does it

revolve around "the senator". Deal with it? Nothing to deal with. I'm a Democrat, not a so-called independent. Looks like you should be dealing with it.

[JaneQPublic]

17. Yep, Remember the unity tour the DNC heads invited Bernie to speak at?

He spend most of his time on the DNC's stage bashing the Dem party.

Trying to make nice with him and his supporters (remember them at the DNC conference, with the tape over their mouths, except when they wanted to shout down the speakers?) only took us farther away from unifying the party.

It's better to identify the disruptive and detrimental cell and excise it from the party.

[fallout87]

46. Agree

Also, there's no reason we can't be talking about both. we need a candidate that can beat tRump in 2020. It's never too early to start figuring out our best chance.

[zentrum]

104. Um, except when he's asked

….by NYC's Democratic mayor to swear him in for his second term. Didn't ask another Democrat. He asked Bernie.

[Cha]

116. Oh we will be calling out anything we don't like

about what BS has to say about the Democratic Party and President Obama.

The OP will not shut down discussion.. no matter how much complaining.

We are quite capable of multitasking.. they're going about this all wrong. Should be making their appeals to Sanders himself. But, noooo.. they want to shut down any criticism of him.. see how that works?

Mahalo, Wwcd

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. I agree. I'm at the point of hiding all threads

referring to Bernie. I supported him during the primaries because I liked many of his positions; I supported Hillary during the general; and I really don't care all that much about what Bernie is doing now. He's entitled to his opinions but they should be given no more weight than any other Senator's, so I don't understand why some people are making such a BFD out of everything he says - for or against. I don't know whether he'll take another whack at the nomination but I'm damn sure that he won't be the nominee in 2020; he's too controversial and some would say he's too old. So let's focus on this year's state and local elections - we have to win as many as possible - and then think about a strong candidate for 2020. It won't be Bernie. Let's move on.

[mountain grammy]

30. For my sanity and the last hairs on my head

I agree. I joined the Bernie group because I still think he's one of the most honest politicians out there and I want to follow him without losing my mind.

We have some good young Democrats and Bernie is on the stump with them, telling Americans they are the power, and maybe if we hear it enough, we'll finally believe it. These town halls are so interesting. They're about local issues and many Democrats around the country are participating. We have got to get back to the people. Men like Mayor Lumumba are the future. This is about getting more people active and participating. We're dead if they don't.

[KPN]

53. Me too. I'm with you on everything you said.

[LakeArenal]

36. Exactly....

I supported B. Voted happily for H.
DONE Over.

Don’t want either to run. Don’t think either would win the nomination. Both can speak when and whatever they please.

But the only thing I want to hear from them should pertain to 2018. That’s where our focus should be.

But I’ve fallen into the trap responding here and not looking forward.

[pazzyanne]

56. I'm in!

I don't have enough energy to beat a dead horse (2016 election) and work on a new horse race. I choose the new horse race that will give us an administration that is better than the one we have now. Enough in-fighting! Everyone needs to start concentrating on the upcoming elections in 2018 and 2020 if we expect to win this time around.

[poboy2]

72. Its a way to continue the primary fights but under the guise of '2020'.

There are even posters trying to pre-disqualify any other future candidates as well.

Vindictive and narrow minded. More divisiveness. Recipe for LOSING.

[karin_sj]

73. OMG, Yes!!!

I'm about to lose my mind seeing all of these Bernie bashing threads. It's bringing back memories about how dysfunctional this place was right before the election and how much strife and division was taking place here, which only resulted in more animosity and turmoil between people who should be on the same side. We need to stick together and focus on winning in November and not every single thing that Bernie says or does.

[rainin]

114. Agree completely. n/t

[rainin]

115. If we don't start hiding, we risk alienating millions of dems who voted for Bernie

and then Hillary. Bernie hate serves no purpose except to divide dems.

[Demsrule86]

166. That is not a reason to 'hide'. There were millions more who didn't vote for Sen. Sanders.

[Raine]

131. I started hiding them too

I'm sick to death of it . This not doing anyone any good unless the goal is more division, anger, disillusion and more lost elections.

[Justice]

5. Where is 2018 Election Forum?

Really too much stuff in general discussion - it is not even useable most days.

Multiple duplicates.

Same stories pop up 1, 2, 3, days later as new OP b/c people can't read every day.

Skinner said the mods were "open to opening one up later this year" but were ready in January. It's now April

[NCTraveler]

16. Where is 2018 Election Forum?

[geardaddy]

25. +1 million

[Wwcd]

22. That's a good question. Someone keeps hogging the spotlight. That's why.

..never missing a major Media event where the message of crapping on the Dem Party & their finest leaders can be reiterated.

That has become the center point to every Major Media event where there's a mic availible.

Invited or not.

What did happen to the 2018 forum?
Good question.

[panader0]

58. Senator Sanders is the most popular senator

according to morningconsult.com, by quite a bit.
He is number 9 of the most progressive senators. (Schumer is 21).
He ran for POTUS as a Dem. He received more individual donations than
anyone ever. He votes with the Democrats.
The GOP and the Trump administration are a very target rich environment.
Yet many on this forum would rather spend their energy tearing him down than
attacking the Repubs.
Why? I keep wondering why. It only serves to divide the left.
Is that the goal?

[Wwcd]

82. Rofl. The old "most popular" meme that's been already debunked

When these kind of "already debunked" statements keep showing up, its no wonder the battle continues.

See?

[panader0]

83. Did you look?

https://morningconsult.com/2017/10/31/americas-most-and-least-popular-senators-october-2017/
ROLF indeed.....

[Wwcd]

86. Ya. Rolf. He the most popular in a pre-selected group

Hardly the mose popular politician in America.

Was the voting group pre-selected also?
I don't know why its so hard for the truth to be told about his divisivness.
He's well known. Hardly most popular. I can name a few politicians far more popular than him & I don't need a poll pre-selected for a certain outcome, as proof.

[zentrum]

120. He's the most

…..popular politician, over all, in the country, as well.

Did not know he was the most popular Senator.

Personally I love Warren—she's a great explainer and true blue. But doesn't have the national visibility of Bernie. They're both great.

[Blue_Adept]

31. Here's the most recent answer

https://www.democraticunderground.com/125913316

[Va Lefty]

6. Mobilize and GOTV

[Sophia4]

26. Excellent post. Should be an OP.

[FailureToCommunicate]

33. Great!

[LakeArenal]

37. Yes, post separately.

[BlueWI]

122. Word.

We need threads discussing how many doors we knocked on, how many county Dem meetings we attended, what policy changes we are hoping for. Instead, it's the 24/7 Bash Bernie Brigade. Since #Berniemademewhite, I voted for him in the primary, and then for Hillary Clinton in the general. I don't obsessively follow Clinton's public statements now. What would be the point? It seems that Sanders never gets that same courtesy - that we all move on from the primary wars, at least till 2020.

No, wait... let's imagine what Bernie would say about Kamala Harris!! Why wait till 2020 to start the sniping??

[Highway61]

141. YES

THAT is what is important!!!!!

[Adrahil]

7. It's only going to get worse....

Sanders is clearly setting himself up to run, and some of his fans here are sure to point out, in fawning presentation, every appearance he makes.

Others (like me) are extremely irritated with the man.

Heads are bound to bump. I don;t make any OPs criticizing him, but I admit some of his boosters here bring out the worst in me.

[Wwcd]

39. The only time we see or hear from him is in front of a mic with Media camera on him.

It a p.r. campaign.
Its for the same reason he appeared in 2015 "Money & Media".
He will succeed in only re-electing the Party he fails to mention.
Republicans & Trump.
Its become a very clear picture what his purpose is.
Nothing of substance.

[KPN]

55. I'm not so sure about that. I think Sanders

may decide to run if he doesn't see a strong progressive come to the forefront. In the meantime, I think he's taking advantage of his high visibility to push the progressive agenda and define the playing field to progressives' advantage. That's useful. He's helping the Democratic Party succeed in my view.

[Adrahil]

108. We see it differently. NT

[Cha]

112. That's right.. the OP should be talking straight

to Sanders himself.. about what he says.. and not be trying to shut down discussion on a political discussion board.

As long as BS keeps going after the Democratic Party he will be called out. And, he can also stop with the insensitive remarks about President Obama while he's at it.

[Adrahil]

113. Right on. NT

[Heartstrings]

8. Yes, +1000

[grumpyduck]

9. DU seems to be more about commentary than about activism

I've been hanging out here for maybe three-four months and I've noticed that the vast majority of posts are commentary on what's going on rather than ideas for action. If that's what DU is, that's fine: I don't have a problem with it. However, I agree with you that "we" need to get more actively involved. Maybe there's another online forum for that.

Incidentally, and this is a sidebar: I have given up on any "political" sites that tell you what to do and what to think and ask for money WITHOUT giving you a chance to speak up and become active. Sure, you can write in, but most of it seems to go straight into the memory hole. So far, all the democratic party sites, most of the lawmaker sites, and most of the candidate sites are on my don't-go-there list.

[JaneQPublic]

11. Frankly, Twitter is the home of The Resistance.

Attempts to spur involvement in the Activist Headquarters here in DU were largely futile.

[getagrip_already]

15. well, both twitter and du are home to bots.....

and all they want is to tear open divisions. That happens to be very easy with one candidate left over from 2016. It will eventually doom that candidate and lead to a republican pres for another 4 years.

[JaneQPublic]

21. Apparently, you weren't here in 2008 for the HRC vs. Obama squabbles

There were loads of "PUMAs" (Party Unity My A$$) types.

As I recall, we Dems won that election just the same.

[getagrip_already]

23. I was here...

the difference was in the losing candidates and how they behaved once the battle was over. In 2008, hrc worked tirelessly to heal the wounds and convince her supporters to support the ticket. There wasn't a lasting division.

That wasn't the case in 2016. It could be the bots, the candidate, or the supporters. It's likely all three.

But you can't deny there is a deep and wide fissure between the two camps. And those wounds are fresh enough to be exploited.

Just as people stayed home or voted third party as a protest in 2016 - possibly swinging key races - it will happen again. It will be assured by bots coming in and ripping those wounds wide open.

It's happening already.

[getagrip_already]

41. they will work FOR him until the nomination....

then they will work against him.

He may be a russian sympathizer, but they would rather have trump or whoever the R nominee is (they will select that person also).

[JaneQPublic]

44. ...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

[Wwcd]

43. True. MUELLER wasn't lying when he named Bernie & Trump in the same sentence.

Has he ever campaigned for a Dem yet?
Nope.
He campaigns AGAINST them.

Pretty much pulls back the curtains on bsanders.

How anyone believes him is stunning.

[panader0]

68. For goodness sake--Bernie campaigned for HRC.

You compare him to Trump? Why are you doing this? Why?

[Wwcd]

70. I didn't compare him to Trump. Mueller did. They both benefitted.

The only one who the election was actually "rigged against" was HRC.

Yet she never used it as a campaign hammer.
They did.

[David__77]

75. There is an anti-Sanders gutter.

...

[rainin]

111. Yep. It's almost not worth fighting against. It's borderline irrational.

Some people just can't resist dividing.

[BlueMTexpat]

133. + a million or so! eom

[pazzyanne]

61. God forbid that we keep the resident of the WH for another 4 years because

we can't get our act together. If that happens, we are no better than the do nothing party.

[Adrahil]

47. Welcome to DU....

Many of us are actively involved in local groups that are engaged in activism.

But let's be clear... this is a site dedicated to advancing the Democratic Party as a whole. There is room for debate, for sure, but consistent attacks against the party or its leadership does not support that goal.

Nothing here will stop you from being as involved with the board as you like. But if all you do is address what you perceive as the party's shortcomings, then you can expect a less-than-warm welcome from many of us.

To affect change, we must win. To win, we must concentrate our efforts against the Republicans.

[bearsfootball516]

48. From what I've heard, DU used to be a lot more involved in activism in the early 2000s

But, I've also seen a few polls for "What are are you?" And the vast majority of participants are in their late 60s, 70s and 80s. Not to sound ageist, but it can be hard for older people to really get involved in political activism.

DU seems to be much more of a conversation and venting board at this point.

[Orsino]

66. It's an Internet discussion forum.

It's commentary by definition, plus some great activism.

[JaneQPublic]

10. Defusing Bernie's constant attack of the Dem Party is an essential part of that. (nt)

[getagrip_already]

13. correct....

sticking our heads in the sand will result in a flawed candidate. Better to stop them now.

[panader0]

85. The Democratic Party lost around 1000 seats since 2008.

That's the model that Sanders wants to change. Speaking the truth is
not attacking the Democrats.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/16/senate-democrats-tap-bernie-sanders-lead-outreach/93960822/

[JaneQPublic]

87. It's not "truth" to call the Dem party "an absolute failure" or dismiss Obama as "charismatic"

Clearly, that's opinion and judgment, not objective reality.

And for the record, Then Dem leaders gave Bernie the "Outreach Chair" job largely because they hoped he would see that Job One would be to hand over his supporter email list, but he never did.

[shanny]

135. How do you characterize

the loss of 1000 seats while an exceptional candidate held the presidency?

So much winning?

[Kentonio]

136. Exactly

Apparently trying to improve our chances is an attack now.

[NCTraveler]

14. I find multi-tasking on a discussion board to be acceptable.

I imagine if I look I will find many of your posts outside of "local and State Races, what we can do to help, contrasting candidates."

The Blue Tsunami is on the way.

[question everything]

18. Sanders is not a Democrat! Never has been a Democrat!

Actively campaigned against Democrats running for office . Wanted someone to primary challenge Obama in 2012.

So stop alerting on posts that are "bashing Democratic figures."

Such posts do not break any rules.

And if he runs in 2020 we can say good bye for ever returning some balance to the Supreme Court. Even if he is not the candidate.

[David__77]

63. Wow, sounds like you consider Sanders a very powerful man.

...

[question everything]

88. He probably was a factor in our loss

No, don't give me the Russia thing; many who supported him, probably on DU, too, were so unhappy that they either voted for Trump or stayed home.

Either way, I refuse to vote for post removal because it is "bashing a Democratic public figure." Had a few of them recently.

[Skittles]

103. the most senseless factor

absolutely

[Skittles]

102. good luck selling that

they claim it's bashing "progressives"

[Sophia4]

24. Yes. Let's focus on the coming election and the issues we need to deal with when we

are out their supporting our candidates.

[Squinch]

34. Without expressing any like or dislike for Sanders, the fact is that he is not relevant

to the issues that face us now. OP's only have to mention his name and we are all divided.

You are right. We need to stop talking about him.

[Still In Wisconsin]

45. I voted and campaigned for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general. I am so, so, so done

talking about Bernie and Hillary, Bernie vs. Hillary, Bernie slighting Hillary, Hillary slighting Bernie, Bernie voters slighting Hillary voters, Hillary voters slighting Bernie voters, Bernie Bros, Busters, Hill Bots. I thought at the time of the primary that Bernie should be our candidate... more Democrats disagreed than agreed, so Hillary went on. I know Hillary should be our current President but she's not and she won't be. Look, Bernie and Hillary can say whatever the hell they want to.

Personally I very much hope that neither Bernie nor Hillary ever run for President again. I want to beat Trump. I want to take over Congress. I want to take over the Wisconsin Legislature and Governor's office. So can we please be done with Bernie and Hillary?

[Squinch]

77. It isn't really Sanders vs. Hillary any more, though.

Far too often it is Sanders vs. Democrats.

[Still In Wisconsin]

93. I see your point, and I sometimes cringe when I hear something Bernie has said.

Nonetheless, I don't think we need to focus on Bernie- or on Hillary. Others can and no doubt do disagree, but I increasingly view most if not all of the Hillary/Bernie stuff as a waste of energy.

[Squinch]

96. I agree to the extent that, until recently, I had in my "key word trash" list

"Bernie" and "Sanders." I took them out of the list about a month ago, figuring things would be better.

They aren't. Every thread that involves him sets us at each others' throats. And you are right. The whole subject is not relevant to our future.

I'm going to put them back on my keyword trash list.

[marlakay]

91. Everything you said I feel

I also worked for both Bernie and Hillary. But let’s move on!

I want neither and let them talk, we don’t have to get into war about it.

Bernie may not be a democrat but he is fighting for great issues on the left. We need to stop infighting or we could lose congress again and be stuck with Trump for 7 more years. I have a hard time believing no matter what Mueller does that republicans will impeach him.

[Still In Wisconsin]

92. Impeaching TRUMP is not in the Republican's DNA.

The only way that happens is if we take the Senate and House, and even then I'm not so sure enough Democrats would have the stomach for it, especially those in purple/red states. So, yeah, the way out of all of this shit is the November elections, and to win in November we can't keep doing the Hill vs. Bernie thing.

[MineralMan]

49. I'm sorry to see that your thread has been hijacked.

Ugh!

[Cryptoad]

84. Hah,,,,, i figured as much

I guess when u gotta stir that Shitpot,,,, you just gotta stir,,,,

[Anon-C]

51. OK, that was my last reply to a Bernie thread. You right, onward!

[50 Shades Of Blue]

52. K & R

I was happy to vote for Bernie in the MD primary and then for Hillary in the presidential election. Now I'm ready to move on!

[rainin]

54. The Bernie hate is over the top and mostly irrational.

It's always unproductive. I wonder if it's being stoked by the other side. Honestly. How can a true dem think this divisiveness helps.

[GulfCoast66]

57. The irony of your last sentence is priceless

[rainin]

62. History lesson: some dems voted for Bernie. Oh yeah, millions did.

Go ahead, alienate them.

[David__77]

64. So true! He got 46% of the pledged delegates!

Millions voted for him.

I forecast that this will continue onward through the midterms and beyond that point.

[grantcart]

97. So the guy that uses inherently pejorative phrases like

"The Democratic Brand" is not the problem. What flavor is your kook aid, cherry or grape?

[rainin]

110. We're not #1. USA USA USA USA!!! So, let's stop being so sensitive and address our problems

honestly. And resist any effort to divide the democratic party. And since millions of democrats voted for Bernie, then that means stopping the Bernie hate.

[grantcart]

125. absurd

Your the sensitive one and you are the problem, not Obama and not Sanders.

Sanders insulting and dismissive patronizing of President Obama is the divisive one. It was when he called for a primary challenger, again in a party he doesn't call his own.

President Obama was the one who addressed our problems honestly and achieved actual results. Obtaining almost universal access to health services, negotiating a good deal with Iran, ending our involvement in Iraq, at the same time he had to rebuild the economy. Think about it, he not only was able to save automobile manufacturing but he got them to get on board with CAFE standards. And I could go on and on about the revolutionary increase in renewable energy production during Obama's 8 years and so on.

I loved Senator Sanders, and to a great extent still do, especially on universal health care (although he is consistently sloppy in his formulations (Canada's health care system is not socialist in the least, its health insurance is socialist but their health delivery system is much more market driven than ours.)

Sanders flippant "the Democratic brand" comment is a pejorative insult. The Democratic Party is a movement of people with very similar values of fairness, inclusiveness, economic justice and so on. You sell a brand and Sanders wants to make it appear that corrupt vile interests have taken over the party and its "branding".

Its unfortunate that Sanders moves from the narrow area that he is so informed about to appoint himself the messiah of the Democratic Party because when you look at what he is saying, a good part of the time its just gibberish.

For example his view of the TPP (which he shares with Trump) really resonates at a junior high level. If one of my students in college turned in a paper that was as ill prepared as his analysis of the TPP was then I would arrange an appointment to see if college really was the right path for him/her.

The TPP nonsense came up in another thread so I will repost it here. Calling Sanders' comments gibberish isn't hatred, I don't hate the guy, I just wish he would stay in the area that he performs well because his understanding of trade, and economics in general is very unsophisticated.

The problem is not Sanders but the deep devotion of his devotees which becomes painfully clear in this "Feel the Bern" discussed below. It is those that are devotional to Sanders that are the problem.

Your "We're not #1. USA USA USA USA!!! trash talk is very consistent with the kind of mindless insults Bernie Bros throw around and boy did you miss the target.

I spent most of my adult life outside of the US. I am the only in my family that is born here and I can't wait until to relocate back. I have worked with and received decorations from foreign governments for my work as an international civil servant and being able to put aside my national feelings aside to work for international objectives. I am equally at home in the US as I am outside.

I was at the mall today and there was a worker handing out samples at the philly cheesestake shop. I could tell by his accent that he had a Nigerian background and it turned out that he did have a Nigerian family but was resettled by the agency I worked for. When I told him the name tears swelled up in his eyes.

I want the guy working in Myanmar or Libya or Ukraine to have the same breaks in life as the guy from Idaho. Bernie is an economic nationalist, just like Trump. There is nothing progressive about economic nationalism it is a reactionary philosophy based on tribalism. I am the globalist, Sanders is not.

Now as promised here is the gibberish that we have to suffer from Sanders and Sanders supporters on the TPP. Just because we call it gibberish (because it is) doesn't mean that we hate Sanders, its just that were disappointed he doesn't really understand it

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forums

take this gem from feel the Bern, it has been up like this for 3 years

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-china/

Bernie firmly believes that current trade relations with China are detrimental to job growth and wealth equality in the United States. Referring specifically to the 2015 Trans-Pacific Partnership, Bernie has decried trade deals with China as being “designed to protect the interests of the largest multi-national corporations at the expense of workers, consumers, the environment and the foundations of American democracy.”

the TPP is not an agreement with China it is a multi government agreement AGAINST China. China is single out specifically to not be admitted. Who is the TPP for?

Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and Asean (which with the US would account for 95% of the economic activity under TPP.

Democrats love to deride Republicans for not following peer review analysis on climate change but when it comes to trade and trade agreements they follow the Republican example on climate change. Stomp your feet until you believe its true.

Here is the most respected non ideological economic peer review analysis of what the TPP impact would be on the US

https://piie.com/system/files/documents/wp16-2_0.pdf

This Working Paper estimates the effects of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) using a comprehensive, quantitative trade model, updating results reported in Petri, Plummer, and Zhai (2012) with recent data and information from the agreement. The new estimates suggest that the TPP will increase annual real incomes in the United States by $131 billion, or 0.5 percent of GDP, and annual exports by $357 billion, or 9.1 percent of exports, over baseline projections by 2030, when the agreement is nearly fully implemented. Annual income gains by 2030 will be $492 billion for the world. While the United States will be the largest beneficiary of the TPP in absolute terms, the agreement will generate substantial gains for Japan, Malaysia, and Vietnam as well, and solid benefits for other members. The agreement will raise US wages but is not projected to change US employment levels; it will slightly increase “job churn” (movements of jobs between firms) and
impose adjustment costs on some workers.

If you read the paper you will see that the projection is that by 2030 the TPP would add about $ 131 billion in additional annual wages for the US.

How can this be? We let Vietnam have better access to our market for low skilled, low capital, low paying and highly fungible jobs while we get high skilled, high capital, high paying and low fungible jobs.

With that vision President Obama was able to open new untouched markets, like Vietnam so that our high paying manufacturing products have higher market penetration:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vietjet-boeing/vietnams-vietjet-to-buy-100-boeing-planes-for-11-3-billion-idUSKCN0YE0C1

The deal, signed during U.S. president Barack Obama’s visit to Vietnam, represents a coup for Boeing, as VietJet has only operated its European rival Airbus’ A320 airplanes since it began operations in December 2011.

The airline also signed a $3.04-billion deal for engines made by Pratt & Whitney, a unit of United Technologies, for the 63 Airbus planes of the 99 it ordered and 7 hired since 2013.

VietJet says it now has 36 Airbus planes in service, and the delivery of the Boeing planes, expected during 2019 to 2023, will bring the fleet to more than 200 aircraft by the end of 2023, potentially surpassing flag carrier Vietnam Airlines, which now has 89 operating aircraft.

Usually there isn't a clear dichotomy but this time there is.

There isn't a dime of difference between Trump and Sanders on economic nationalism or trade with China or however you want to split it.

President Obama was right.

Trump/Sanders are wrong.

Have you ever noticed how Sanders and Sanders supporters go straight to pejorative statements, like that was an argument

Sanders, "The Democratic Brand" (The Democratic Party isn't a commodity and doesn't sell itself on a bumper sticker like the latest soap brand, to refer to it in this way is pejorative and dismissive)

You, "We're not #1. USA USA USA USA!!!" Not having an actual argument based in facts you spring into the pejorative insult that because someone doesn't share your devotion of Sanders they must be an ubher nationalist, how very much like Sanders you are. My wife who is a permanent resident and has lived here for 20 years has no plans for citizenship and when I retire I will leave the US live out my years abroad.

[C Moon]

59. Putin would love to have the Bernie love-hate back.

[jalan48]

60. I think the Bernie hate is as much about Bernie as it is about his emphasis on income inequality.

I believe some identity groups feel their message is diluted when we focus on income inequality, an issue that affects ALL Americans, not just one particular group. Any candidate who talks primarily about billionaires, Wall St and big bank profits, and income inequality will probably suffer the same fate as Bernie on here.

[David__77]

67. I urge you to reconsider this.

I think that "identity groups" is a broad brush indeed. Not all people who have an identity as a gay person, for instance, have a political view somehow fully premised on that identity. Just for instance, take the case of socialists: there are gay socialists, black socialists, white socialists. They might have a socialist worldview that is consistent with their identities as gay, white, black, etc.

[jalan48]

71. Good point. An economic identity group probably doesn't exist as members of gender and racial

groups can be members of different social classes in the US.

[David__77]

74. I don't think class/"identity" both exist, and one doesn't necessarily fully "explain" the other.

That said, I think that good policies can, at least sometimes, address class and "identity group" oppression at the same time. I put "identity group" in quotes, because it's not a term that I would generally adopt.

[jalan48]

79. Traditionally, I think it's fair to say we have thought in terms of social classes which included

all races and genders. I do think social classes can be defined by income and within those classes we can have a certain percentage defined by race and gender. It's possible to have the enormous wealth inequality like we do in the US and simply argue that we need more of a certain race or gender within a social economic class without calling for a change in the class structure itself. I think Bernie is focusing on the class/economic structure as a whole and questioning the fairness of it.

[pnwmom]

123. What Bernie and many of his supporters seem to overlook is that even within the same

economic class there are severe racial and gender disparities.

For example, it isn't enough for a black family to achieve an upper middle class lifestyle, if they still have to worry about their son being killed by the police in a traffic stop. It isn't enough for a woman to make a six figure income if she still has to worry about being sexually harassed by an employer.

What does Bernie's class analysis do to help with this?

[jalan48]

150. Wealth inequality only makes the examples you give worse. Of course the killing of POC and other

minorities needs to be addressed but fewer economic opportunities only makes a bad situation worse. What about the woman who has to work two or three jobs (the employer doesn't have to pay benefits if it's not full time) facing sexual harassment? No one claims Bernie has all the answers but addressing wealth inequality gives more Americans the opportunity to move out of poverty and in so doing have a hope for a better for their future for themselves and their families.

[pnwmom]

154. You say "of course" but Bernie won't talk about addressing racial disparities.

At the Mississippi event, according to reports, every time questions turned that direction, he changed the subject.

If he continues along in this manner, he won't make any more inroads among the party base than he did last time. His southern primaries will be as bad as last time.

ON UPDATE: A lot of white people don't realize that FDR and his Social security programs didn't do much for black people, because he excluded the jobs that most black people had -- in the home and on farms -- from the programs. For many black people, advances didn't occur till much later, as a result of President Johnson's Great Society program. So they don't view FDR as the hero that many Bernie supporters do. FDR proved that attention has to be paid to racial and gender equality at the same time as economic equality -- it isn't just a natural offshoot, as Bernie seems to think it would be.

[jalan48]

159. I guess if we can work together to solve problems we have a chance. If we continue divide

one another we have no chance. There are a lot of problems in the world that need fixing.

[pnwmom]

160. How does that answer the problem that Bernie has been avoiding the discussion?

He seems to be positioning himself as the savior of the American white male worker, but he won't address the issues that non-white and non-male workers have.

[jalan48]

162. Here ya go.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

[pnwmom]

164. Why wouldn't he address the questions at the Mississippi meeting when asked?

Or at similar events?

[jalan48]

168. I don't know, I haven't seen videos or transcripts of everything Bernie has said. I believe if we

can address the current level of obscene income inequality in the US we will all be the better for it.

[Skittles]

134. LOLOL

um.......no

[DallasNE]

69. So True

At the State level Democrats are in terrible shape currently. That is just a fact. So, how do we turn that around?

And how did we get here. That is where Bernie stepped into it. In order to turn things around you need to know how we got here and there is no one reason. There is Citizens United which opened up unlimited money for Republicans at all levels. There is Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and the lousy job she did at DNC. And Obama just didn't like to mix it up in the political environment and instead focus on governance. I'm sure there are others too. But they all factored into where we are today.

The good news is that the corner has been turned. Democrats are fielding an outstanding team of candidates, with many of those being women. At the grassroots we must embrace the team and give them our full support. Anything less will result in extreme disappointment.

[comradebillyboy]

76. I don't see the problem. Bernie makes a speech and people comment

on what he said. Maybe he should choose his words a little more carefully if he wants a more positive response.

[BobTheSubgenius]

100. I fully agree.

I understand the rules about posting negative things about party, candidates, or officials, and I agree with them for the most part. However, it sometimes happens that there is a difference of opinion between "leaders", and it's out loud and in public.

Surely carefully choosing sides and having a considered opinion of one's own is a good thing. Besides, Bernie isn't even a Democrat. His rhetoric would ring a lot truer for me (most of the time) if he deigned to end his "detachment" or whatever he views it as and join the hoi polloi.

[honest.abe]

89. I would say Bernie's bizarre comments are hindering our efforts towards a Blue Tsunami.

A major leader in the party calling the party a failure. That's something that needs to be discussed.

[Skittles]

95. NO SHIT

and for WHAT fucking reason?

[Kentonio]

137. Us dropping a thousand seats IS failure.

Let's stop pretending that everything we've done as a party has been some great success. Last I checked not only are the White House, house and senate all red, but those evil Republican bastards are even terrifyingly close to being able to call a constitutional convention. Do you understand what that could actually mean for everything we hold dear?

We need to turn this shit around and start winning at a state level again, otherwise it really wont matter a damn if we win back the White House.

[honest.abe]

138. There are many reasons for those losses and have nothing to do with Democrats failing.

The biggest losses were in 2010 right in the middle of financial crisis which President Obama inherited from Bush. But many voters unfairly blamed him and the Democrats for the problems since we were party in power and RW media was very good at pushing that lie. Additional losses in 2014 were also fueled by many angry about the slow economic recovery which was also unfair as there were tremendous gains in the economy from 2010-2014.. but many thought it was not good enough. Furthermore GOP gerrymandering with voting districts also helped them make gains in many parts of the country. Also the brain-washing by Fox news, conservative radio and the rest of RW media had a huge impact as well.

In my opinion, none of these factors can be classified as the Democratic Party failing. Much it was just bad luck/bad timing with the rest attributed to GOP dirty tricks and RW media.

[Skittles]

94. caring about not repeating past mistakes is IMPORTANT

[BobTheSubgenius]

98. Unity!

As much - MUCH - as I am unwavering in my support of liberal causes, there is one thing you have to hand it to the GOP for - a united, common front. They fall into line and get shit done.

Most of what they get done is very bad, granted....but their playbook is solid.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

99. KR NT

[zentrum]

106. K&R+++++

[left-of-center2012]

107. "a daily barrage"

Even some responses here to your "O.P." contain attacks on Bernie.
(Any time, any place, any reason)

Personally I find the daily attacks have become very boring.
We need to focus on this fall's election.

By the way, Bernie is a member of the Senate's Democratic leadership.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/306336-sanders-named-to-senate-leadership-post

[David__77]

124. It is straight from the sewer.

...

[Cha]

109. Tell that to BS

I can multitask.. but he will be called out if he continues to attack the Democratic Party and President Obama.

You're not going to sweep that under the damn rug.

[SunSeeker]

117. +1

[Honeycombe8]

118. I don't have local races right now. When I did, I posted the great Dem results. No one here cared.

Well, maybe three people cared.

But really, any post regarding politics and the Dem Party and the candidates is relevant, including statements made by national figures about the Democratic Party. Unfortunately, that was Bernie lately. Which was relevant. That's not the ONLY thing that's been posted lately. Have you looked at the posts lately? There are hundreds of them about all sorts of topical issues and people and statements and events. If one or two is regarding Bernie, why would that bother someone? Unless, of course, it's a Bernie supporter who supports his statements that are critical of the Dem Party. I'm neither for nor against Sanders. But I don't have to be; he's not a Democrat. I'd vote for him over a Republican.

[EricMaundry]

119. T H A N K Y O U ! !

[coeur_de_lion]

121. Hear hear!!

[Duppers]

126. ...

[Gothmog]

129. Yesterday, I took a Congressional candidate to the local Democratic Lawyers association

A candidate for Congress in a meeting of lawyers was fun to watch. I am hopeful that this candidate can put my district into play

[Raine]

132. THANK YOU

I just wish your post would do some good but nothing seems stop it..

[Highway61]

140. THANK YOU!

There is so much BS going on...to have this man under a microscope almost daily is ludicrous. STAY focused people. Focus on getting rid of the garbage, obstruction, greed and evil from in our paths. We need to take back the HOUSE in November!

[raven mad]

143. "All politics is local."

The late, great and FUN Tip O'Neill.

And folks? Working local races is a blast. I'm old and gray; the "main dude" (her term!) is 20 and all ages, sizs, economic standings, professions etc. a total mishmash.

And we get it done.

Happy Saturday, brother and sister DU'ERS! Grab your coffee and that batch of signs we're dropping off around town & hit the street. It's 27 ABOVE - another reason to like the day.

I hear that Blue Wave coming!

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

148. Straw man: mischaracterize someone's statement and attack that. Would be nice if DU had a rule that

no fallacious arguments be allowed, but then there would probably be only four or five of us posting and that would be boring.

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-fallacies.html

[mountain grammy]

163. Excellent..lot's of new Dems running for office.

find them on twitter. Most of them are there. I've followed a hundred at least. They need our support, give a buck or two when you can.