General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy do all the legal "experts" on TV say that Trump should not sit down with Special Counsel?
What choice does he have? Just ignore the Special Counsel? Then ignore the subpoena to the grand Jury?
Instead of saying that Trump should not be permitted to sit down with Mueller, perhaps they should say that when Trump sits down with Mueller, he will need to tell the truth? Is that too much to expect from the person sitting in the Oval Office?
Anyway, lawyers do not tell Donald Trump what to do. He tells his lawyers what he wants them to do and say.
He's sweating. But he doesn't want his supporters to see him sweat. He cannot tell the truth because it would expose him. Therefore, he lies.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)...is to take the 5th Amendment
that's it...
If he tells the truth he's screwed
If he lies, he's screwed.
sunonmars
(8,656 posts)FM123
(10,054 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Perjury traps and other process crimes can include honest mistakes. See Ken Star and Bill Clinton.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)He's looking for outright lies and cover-up of criminal activities. He is not Ken Starr.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Doesn't matter. All I said was what any responsible lawyer would tell their client. All prosecutors should be on a tight leash and viewed with suspicion.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)To tell his client something that would not be in his best interest? Refuse to sit down with the Special Counsel and wait for the subpoena to the Grand Jury?
Then what would be the responsible thing to do?
And if the subpoena comes, 5A every question.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Trump will take the "Fifth" and blame it all on the "deep state" for being unable to answer the questions asked. That will be sufficient for his supporters.
former9thward
(32,082 posts)His only guilty pleas so far have been to perjury. He is no different than any other prosecutor. Please remember, Mueller is the man who hounded Steven Hatfill for years as the supposed 9/11 anthrax killer. Hatfill sued and got 5.8 million from the DOJ. Mueller then went after a totally different guy who ultimately committed suicide.
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/28/washington/28hatfill.html
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)I were advising, not as a party partisan.
emulatorloo
(44,186 posts)Which is why the pro-Trump legal experts on TV say bullshit nonsense about perjury traps
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Most TV experts and pundits don't know shit.
former9thward
(32,082 posts)Funny how that works.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Is it credible? Does it make sense?
It doesn't matter where it comes from.
former9thward
(32,082 posts)No good can come from it. If there was a later subpoena, which I doubt, then you cross that bridge when you get to it.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Best reason!
Botany
(70,588 posts)He can agree to do an interview and/or get a subpoena to show up
in front of a grand jury.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)He wants to be treated differently. He's special.
Botany
(70,588 posts)He doesn't. But they ignored so many other things such as Trump's "military school" was
really reform school for rich kids and that Melania Trump was a sex worker.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)...the US Government.
It's worked for him in the past.
But, you are correct. It is a false meme.
RDANGELO
(3,435 posts)They are assuming that he could be around to run for a second term. If he does sit down and takes the fifth, his political career is over but, ironically, these people are saying that a person that they say is fit to be president should not talk to Muller because he can't tell the truth.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)The "deep state" makes it impossible for him to answer the questions asked, he will say.
Eventually it will end up in the Supreme Court, in my opinion.
mythology
(9,527 posts)He doesn't just lie when it would actually matters. He lies about the size of his inauguration crowd, he lies about the vote totals, he can't help himself. Even if he had absolutely nothing to lie about, he would lie about something. And I think given his use of twitter, he may not have been involved in anything. Would you tell a blithering idiot who can't keep his mouth shut a big secret?
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)If Mueller has enough tosupport charges already, Trumps testimony wont change that. It cant make evidence go away.
If Mueller doesnt have enough then Trump can only stand to harm himself by testifying, because either he will give enough to him to connect the dots or he will open himself up to a perjury charge either intentionally or unintentionally.
So its in Trunos best interest to evade testifying in person as much as possible. Its all downside, no upside for him.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Would that be preferable for him?
It's not a multiple choice question for him.
He could create a crisis and send it to the Courts, I suppose. And I would not be surprised if that is what happens.
First, he tries bullshit.
Then, he lies.
Then, he delays.
Then, he attacks.
Then, he pays.
KewlKat
(5,624 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,856 posts)kentuck
(111,110 posts)As it is with every American.
Would there be any political consequences from taking the 5th? I doubt that it would much matter with his supporters.
MaryMagdaline
(6,856 posts)Former presidents. This guy will pay no political price. If he is smart he will take the 5th.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)That he could not get a fair hearing under the circumstances and was forced to take the 5th. That will be enough to satisfy his supporters.
But, to take the 5th, must he do that under the Grand Jury or can he take the 5th under the Special Counsel questions?
MaryMagdaline
(6,856 posts)Criminal pre-trial, whatever. Special counsel has subpoena power and can compel his attendance. From there, he would have to decide whether to answer or not.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,856 posts)Before better lawyers correct me, I need to specify ... you can't refuse to answer in a civil case EXCEPT if the questions would place you in criminal jeopardy, such as "did you pay taxes last year?" Once the threat of criminal prosecution is over you have to testify. Hence OJ had to give deposition after beating the murder charges.
Turbineguy
(37,369 posts)the opposite of what people tell him....
unblock
(52,328 posts)first, i believe in vigorous defense against prosecution and i believe in the right of *all* defendants (guilty or not) to fully exercise their constitutional and procedural protections.
this does not mean i'm defending people who are guilty. rather, it means i'm defending a process that tries to prosecute people properly so that *innocent* people are not caught up through sloppy or overly aggressive prosecuting.
in that light, there is little to nothing to be gained from donnie's point of view in him *voluntarily* appearing in front of a grand jury unless it is part of a deal to spare him (and/or his family) from certain charges. it's very difficult to see this working out in his favor.
whether by accident or ego or habit, he's very likely to say something that implicates himself or perjures himself. this could be the case even if he isn't actually guilty of anything (yet), simply because his relationship with objective truth is tenuous at best. his penchant for self-flattery and insults and lies and contradictions could easily get him in trouble, again, even if he's actually innocent.
of course, i rather suspect he's guilty as hell, but my point is that even if he's completely innocent, appearing before a grand jury would be a mistake for him.
now, if mueller actually subpoenas him, then of course he has to comply. that raises the only real reason to appear voluntarily -- it might look better politically to go voluntarily than to be subpoenaed. but that's a purely political consideration. there's no legal advantage to going voluntarily. it's a bit like enlisting in the army to avoid getting drafted. again, unless there's a deal.
same goes for taking the fifth. legally speaking, there's no implication that the person taking the fifth is actually guilty. *politically*, it makes someone look guilty because if they weren't, perhaps they could have just answered the question. but legally, the jury and the courts are not allowed to make any such inference.
for example, say someone attacks me and i kill them in self-defense. i have no proof of self-defense, but prosecutors have no real proof tying me to the incident. if they ask me "did you kill that person", i can and should take the fifth. i'm innocent of murder, but i'd be a fool to admit that i was the one who killed that person, and then not be able to provide compelling evidence that the killing was justified under the circumstances.
legally, donnie should take the fifth where appropriate. again, that's not a defense of donnie, that's a defense of proper process, which is needed to protect the innocent.
to perhaps beat a dead horse, guilty people do us all a service by vigorously using all legal protections available to them. they help ensure the government sticks to proper procedures designed to protect the innocent from winding up in prison for crimes they did not commit.