America is divided big time. Americans are a big part of the problem.

[grumpyduck]

This thread may disintegrate faster than an ice cube in a hot pizza oven, but here it is anyway.

And I don't want to get off on "who is responsible." That's just avoiding the issue and derailing the thread.

America is divided. And we -- the people who live here, "We the people" -- are helping divide it. We are a good chunk of the problem.

We see stuff in the news and get angry about it. Trump this. Hillary that. Comey. Mueller. Putin. Facebook. Many of us seem to have lost the ability to be objective about the news: we take things personally. And sometimes we deliberately go find stuff that makes us angrier. Anger-management shrinks must be making a fortune -- or maybe they should be.

I said I didn't want to get into who's responsible. We all have our opinions. But regardless of who is responsible, the fact remains that we are divided big time, and I believe we are contributing to it.

Many of us have lost our sense of humor. At one time we could laugh little things off. Now we get offended.

Geez, these days somebody could even get pissed off and want to boycott the Acme Company for providing weapons to the Coyote. Or claim there's a link between Warner Brothers, the NRA, and Russia.

Several of my early posts here were an eye-opener for me. I had a low post count, so automatically that made me a troll. Some people didn't even read the entire post; they just picked something out of it, flipped it out of context, and hit me with it. In a couple of cases the thread got totally derailed due to other people either defending my post or attacking me.

Name calling has almost become the norm. When someone says something we don't agree with, the tendency is to call the guy a moron instead of arguing the statement. IOW, attack the individual, not what he/she said. Yeah, that's very adult and civilized. Geez, I remember my Mom telling me not to call another kid names. And I must have been five or six at the time.

I worked with a guy for several years who felt everything we did had to be politically correct. Don't do or say anything that "somebody somewhere even if there's a minute chance" could take the wrong way. It was a pain in the ass. Political correctness, sure. In a country that grants people the right of free speech.

Why does stuff that has nothing to do with politics get politicized? It seems to happen all the time. It's nonsense.

An anecdote on politicizing non-political stuff: Twenty-odd years ago I worked at an architectural firm and was involved in several big county-office projects, often two or more at the same time. We were hired by the counties, which of course were headed by an elected official, which of course made them either Dem or Rep. We were doing architecture and being very open about it, as we would have been with any other project. Yet everything we proposed for a (say) Dem county was taken by the Reps as our being in cahoots with the Dems, and vice versa. I remember many times going home at night, seeing myself in the mirror, and not having a clue as to whether I was "supposed" to be in cahoots with the Dems or the Reps. I've detested politicians since then, but that's another story.

Look at somebody (what they take as) the wrong way? BINGO. You're a racist. Say something they don't like, even if it's out of context? BINGO again. Now you're definitely a racist. And that's where the original conversation goes out of whack and turns into an argument about racism. We can't seem to have it any other way.

Yesterday I did an OP about customer service at AT&T and mentioned that one of the things I had a problem with was that the four reps I spoke with had thick accents and I had a very hard time understanding them. So a couple of people indicated they weren't happy about my mentioning the accents. The thread almost got derailed right there, but thankfully several people brought it back to the original subject, which was customer service. Over the past few years, I've seen so many conversations get totally out of whack when somebody decides to get offended at a word or two that I just want to scream, "Grow the fuck up!!!!!"

Right here on DU, I've caught myself responding to snarky comments that go off the subject. And one day, a few weeks ago, I made up my mind to not do so anymore. I don't have to jump on that bandwagon, so now I just ignore them. It's easier on the blood pressure.

I could go on and on, but you get my point. America is divided and we are helping (so to speak) to divide it. We need to dial back some, take a breath, grow up, and quit letting the anger and bullshit take precedence.

And remember: I didn't go into "who's responsible."

[leftstreet]

1. I'd like to hear from the guy you 'used to work with'

I worked with a guy for several years who felt everything we did had to be politically correct. Don't do or say anything that "somebody somewhere even if there's a minute chance" could take the wrong way.

Conscientious and polite, doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Sounds like a stand up guy to me

[ck4829]

2. What exactly is the problem with some degree of division?

Last edited Sun Apr 15, 2018, 02:52 PM - Edit history (1)

You may notice nobody complained, no talking heads anyway, or had a problem with “division” when there was an effort to divide public sector employees against private sector employees.

All of the sudden wealthy white conservatives men control more institutions than ever before and NOW we hear about “division” being a problem? About “identity politics”?

I just find it a little strange. Division is preferable to submitting to some people, some of them are here in the US.

[ck4829]

15. Some more opinions about division

I am convinced that it’s potential for harm is overstated and not only that but the division we do have is also overstated.

In other words: We’re not that divided and we could be divided more before it does harm.

I mean division COULD be bad, but I think other social problems have a greater potential for harm and do more harm currently; reactionary ideologies, the alt-right, and state-sponsored fear and bigotry of minorities are some of the most concerning.

I also see unity... people of different colors, sexual identities and orientations, faiths, etc. working together. Every disagreement or deviation is not necessarily “division”.

Lastly, I am afraid “division” is used to quell cognitive dissonance. We’re told we are divided yet we are not divided 51-49 on many issues: ending the war on drugs, GLBTQ rights, choice, etc. There is widespread support according to poll after poll, yet we do not have a government that reflects this. By saying we are divided, we don’t have to deal with the possibility that we have a government that does not truly represent our country.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. We are two people living on the same soil.

We are hopelessly divided. There are Deplorables who are at war with modernity and everybody else.

[Sherman A1]

4. Well,

as Americans make up the population and the electorate. This seems to be well beyond rather obvious, if it were not Americans being responsible for the divisions within the county, who or what would it be?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. In the current instance division is good.

What if every American was a Deplorable ?

[GreenEyedLefty]

5. Welcome to DU?

I have been a member since 2006. I recommend you stick around. DU is the home of some of the most intelligent and insightful political commentary you will find anywhere on the web. I am smarter and a better critical thinker - and, because of this wonderful place, I also routinely check my own biases and privilege out in the real world.

[grumpyduck]

9. Yeah, sometimes I want to just stop coming here

but sometimes I read something (and sometimes in response to one of my posts) that makes me go, dang, I didn't know that, or I didn't think of that, or that makes sense. I've learned to ignore some types of posts, but so often I think this is mostly a place to vent. Which is okay, I guess.

[GreenEyedLefty]

12. You have options to enhance your DU experience.

One is the "trash thread" function, which is found in the lower left corner of an OP.

Another is ignore. You can ignore a poster within a thread, or you can go to My Account and do this. Also in My Account is your Trash Can, where you can auto trash by key word if you want to.

I am not a frequent trasher or ignorer....maybe others can chime in with easier suggestions.

[grumpyduck]

13. Thank you

[still_one]

7. When the occupant in the WH constantly spews out blatant lies and distortions, calling out those

lies and distortions, is NOT dividing the country, it is an obligation

The press has woefully abdicated their responsibility in these matters. Take the "raid" on the offices of Cohen as an example.

Mueller did NOT order the so-called "raid" on the offices of Cohen. Mueller saw what he considered possible criminal activities outside of his jurisdiction, and referred it to the Southern District of New York. It was that team that obtained a search warrant for the FBI to enter Cohen's office, present that search warrant to the office personnel to be let in.

However, just reading the headlines from various news sources, including the NY Times, one is left with the impression that this was a deliberate move by a "compromised" special counsel to go after the WH, conveniently brushing aside the obligation of the special counsel, that if they view probable criminal activity outside their jurisdiction, it is their DUTY to refer it to the proper jurisdiction, which is exactly what they did, and the Southern District of New York went through the appropriate procedure to obtain a search warrant. The characterization of this as a "raid", is meant to infer impropriety on the part of the justice department, and those involved in going through appropriate channels and presenting information to a judge why a search warrant was necessary.

If this method of distortion of the facts sounds vaugely familar, it is exactly the same thing that happened when Comey sent the letter to the republicans 11 days before the election to determine if a laptop which the FBI had for two months contained new information or not. Shortly after that was done, the media was reporting that the email investigation was being reopened. THAT WAS A LIE, and unfortunately, because the voices that were trying to point that out were NOT given ample opportunity to refute that, because the media was too busy giving a platform to the right wing propaganda machine, without focusing on what really was happening.

It is NOT divisionary to call out lies

[grumpyduck]

8. Just trying to get the thread back on track :-)

It's already off-track as I guessed it would be, but here goes:

The recurring theme in my OP was anger: the anger that seems to be so prevalent in the U.S. right now, the anger that makes it difficult if not impossible to have a useful discussion with someone who doesn't agree with you (on any subject), the anger that often makes us take everything personally, the anger that makes us resort to name-calling. The anger that makes us take something out of context and turn it around and use it to attack whoever said it. The anger that makes us sometimes apparently respond to the subject line instead of the content of a post. The anger that often makes us want to be more angry.

I'm 67 years old and I've never seen so many people, all around, be so angry. How can you have a productive discussion (on anything) with somebody who starts off with the mindset that you're full of it? We used to at least give the other guy a chance, but now we so often just write people off as morons.

That's the division I was talking about. And that's why so often I want to yell at some people: "Shut up and take a breath!"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. "Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger."

-Ephesians 4: 26

Righteous anger is good. We are righteously angry at Trump and his enablers bigotry, racism, Islamophobia, anti-semitism, homophobia, transphobia, nativism and his and their contempt for the rule of law.

[roamer65]

11. Keep in mind a good chunk of divide is due to Russian agitprop.

The web provides a ready made platform for a former KGB agent now dictator to get his revenge for the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

[Awsi Dooger]

14. Don't worry about not giving them everything

This site is sometimes so obsessed with inclusivity as a Democratic theme that it won't tolerate any suggestion that a minority demographic has its issues. I saw your AT&T thread. I posted a lengthy reply last night. You were absolutely correct that some of the phone personnel have heavy accents and are difficult to understand. Last year I had so many lengthy phone calls to AT&T customer service over a 6 month period I felt as if I spoke to every employee on the payroll. I had every type of accent and speech pattern and vocabulary and competency level on the other end. A few times I indeed asked to be transferred to someone else, when I had difficulty understanding the representative. I didn't specify that as the reason, but it was the actual reason.

That is no big deal. Stereotypes exist because they fit. As a Miamian I had a somewhat similar experience here months ago, when I mentioned that the Hispanic drivers in this area are very dangerous, since they are so aggressive and don't pay attention to lane lines or courtesy or so many other basics like actually respecting a yellow light. The young males in particular will go through on red 5 or even 10 seconds late and think nothing about it. I see accidents or near accidents all the time due to that dynamic. The driving conditions don't at all resemble what they were before the area turned heavily Hispanic.

We talk about that on Miami area forums all the time. There is virtually no resistance. One anecdote after another. And we've had young Hispanics chime in and say yes, that's the way they drive, that's the way they were taught to drive, and no apologies. They can't imagine doing it any other way, to actually slow down or not zig zag from one lane to another to gain a few feet each time.

Yet when I offhand mentioned it here I was greeted with criticism, with posters saying they couldn't believe there's any difference or wondering why I would have time to notice the race or origin of fellow drivers.

Great. Believe whatever you want. It's all a happy world. Miami drivers are the same as Honolulu drivers.

Otherwise, a low post count aligns with troll cynicism, if you post anything that doesn't fall in line with cheerleader mentality. That was true for myself and countless others. It will continue to happen. You shouldn't care. Your content is strong enough to overcome it.

In my case I registered not long before the 2002 midterm. On this site and elsewhere in Democratic circles it was expected to be a Democratic landslide, typical of first midterm after the presidency chances hands. But I am a bettor and very in tune with situational impact. The 2002 cycle was very unique because it followed 9/11, which heightened natural security fear and therefore shifted the partisan percentages among several key blocks, notably white women. The so-called Security Moms were already showing up in polling from Pew and others. But nobody here wanted to believe it. I was labeled a troll. We had threads from others of, "my dream senate scenario," with Democrats sweeping all the toss up senate races, along with picking off some that weren't even on the competitive list.

Those people are not labeled as trolls. They are wacko but they are cherished. I never understand it, as someone who deals with real world variables and outcomes.

Flick it off. You'll do fine. I have very little respect for Rachel Maddow so I post that theme all the time, against a wave of adoring threads. I'm sure in 2020 Rachel will again be giggling and waving some nonsense poll from South Carolina or Georgia or Alaska, taking it at simpleton face value with no clue toward the fundamentals of the state.

[Tipperary]

16. Good post. (Though I do like Rachel).

You make good points. I hate when I see posters call each other “comrade” or trolls, moles or whatever simply because of disagreements.

[Donkees]

17. ''The Outrage Industry: Public Opinion Media and the New Incivility''

Excerpt:

In their new book, “The Outrage Industry: Public Opinion Media and the New Incivility,” Tufts University professors Sarah Sobieraj and Jeffrey M. Berry examine the rise of incendiary rhetoric and indignation in political commentary and how it’s become our new normal.

Outrage is a concept we developed to describe political speech and behavior involving efforts to provoke emotional responses — especially anger, fear and moral indignation — from the audience through the use of categorical statements, misleading or inaccurate information, ad hominem attacks and partial truths about opponents. It is a form of political communication that glosses over the messy nuances of complex political issues and instead focuses on melodrama, mockery and forecasts of impending doom.

What’s more, this unique brand of incivility has become the mainstay of an entire genre of political opinion media that is not really about dialogue or information, but instead takes the form of a wildly entertaining verbal jousting match, with the victor of the day being the team that most effectively paints the other side as dangerous, misguided or inept.

... Over the last 25 to 30 years, an entire genre grounded in outrage-based content has developed. We argue that this increase isn’t a simple reflection of an increase in political polarization on the part of audience, but instead reflects of a set of technological, regulatory and political changes that have rendered this type of content profitable in a way that would have been unheard of in the ’70s. There are certainly fans, but the real driving force is profitability.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-outrage-industry-affects-politics

[grumpyduck]

18. Wow, that book seems to go right along with my OP

I'm sure it makes for an interesting read, but I'd have to double or triple up on my blood pressure meds.

[maxrandb]

19. I guess I stopped "laughing little things off" on 7 Nov 2016

Since then, I've kinda lost my sense of humor.

You make some valid points, but, IMHO, your post smacks of false equivalency.

It wasn't Dems who bankrolled billions of dollars into over 2,000 radio stations from Washington to Florida and Maine to California, that have done nothing but dehumanize Dems, liberals and progressives for close to 30 years now.

It wasn't Dems who built a fucking cottage industry of racist birtherism against the first black President.

I served this country for 30 years and put my life on the line, and I couldn't even get a God damned traffic and weather report without first having to listen to some right wing ass-pickle claim that I was a "terrorist loving anti American French surrender monkey"

You want to know why people don't laugh off the little shit anymore??!!

It's because it's NOT little shit anymore.

A conferderate Nazi as AG is NOT little.

A coal belching prick as head of the EPA is NOT little.

A stolen supreme Court Justice is NOT little.

A racist clown as president is NOT little.

My friends and family, who are at risk to being deported to a country they've never known... possibly to face death...is NOT little.

Excuse me if I'm tired of singing Kum Baya to the fucking pricks.

It's funny how all this Kum Baya shit always comes from the right AFTER they are in power.

It's like they're working to completely fuck you over, steal your pension, destroy your safety net, describe your friends and family as "animals"...and when they've been given unchecked power to do so, they complain and ask; "can't we all get along".

Sorry, but this man ain't buying it.

[nolabels]

20. +200,000,000

To say nothing of the bigots who make it for the rest of the world a totally unworkable situation.

When there is nothing to lose then there will be no need to be brave

[grumpyduck]

21. See, that's basically what I was saying

and somebody above mentioned "righteous anger," which I agreed with.

Obviously I wasn't clear enough (and several posts have made me realize it), but, when I said I didn't want to get into who is responsible, it was precisely because we could go on forever saying pretty much what you did: we know who and what we are pissed off at. But that doesn't negate the fact that we so often take it out on each other, which is totally unnecessary.

I get royally frustrated and pissed off when I write an elected official and only get a form letter in reply a few weeks later. Several of their web sites ask for the subject matter of your email, which you pick from a drop-down menu. As far as I can guess, that list is what picks the form letter you get, although they do add your name at the top to make it look as if they were writing you directly. I've heard they only reply personally to big donors, which is part of the reason I don't send them money. So I'm basically talking to a brick wall, except that the brick wall doesn't give me any lip service.

Yeah, I get pissed too, but I try to not take it out on people who are not responsible for the f'ing mess we are in. Even if I don't agree with what someone says, I don't label them as morons.

Am I being nicey-nicey? Is Mr. Rogers my role model? No. I'm just trying to remain civilized in a country that has been going to hell for the past year and some. I don't need to lower myself to the level of what I was describing in the OP.

Maybe we need to vent, which is fine. Vent away. I do all the time, and DU only sees a fraction of it. But there's a difference between venting and getting into an argument at the drop of a hat. Personally, I'm sick of running into that.