Mueller will prove conspiracy and obstruction. Trump must be impeached for this reason.

[shockey80]

Impeachment is never good for America but in this case it must be done. The crimes Trump has committed, the dishonor he has brought to the office of the presidency must not stand. He cannot simply be voted out of office in 2020. That would set the standard you can be like Trump and you will not pay a price. It would set precedent. Corruption is Ok, Lying is Ok, if you are president you will not pay a price.

If Trump does not pay a price our democracy may be ruined forever. This is going to get ugly but we must deal with it and hopefully things turn out well for the future.

I still believe Trump will resign when he realizes he cannot win.

[Shrike47]

1. After the next election, not before. If he's acquitted, he will be insufferable.

[marble falls]

2. So President Pence sounds like a reasonable solution to cheetolini.....

We can't impeach cheetolini until after the Nov election. We do not want or need the depth of shit Pence has in mind for the nation without a working Congress.

[emulatorloo]

5. Pence has the charisma of a sack of potatoes

He couldn’t sell people in hell ice water. No screaming MAGA crowds for him.

[marble falls]

8. And thats not his style. Being a boob certainly hasn't hurt his political carreer. Mishandling...

his term as governor and pushing stupid laws and having to rescind them got his VPOTUS. There's a lot of the GOP who love him enough to work towards a Christian Sharia here in the US: no abortion, no LGBT rights, no protections for women, xenophobic foreign policies... Its not that he's smart (he ain't) its that he can be worked with to work against us, the majority. 2018 is as important, maybe more than 2020. All we need is the best candidate (and it probably isn't either Bernie or Hillary).

[emulatorloo]

12. People of Indiana were ready to kick him to the curb. GOP's in Congress are scared of Trump

and his shrieking MaGAs. I Don’t think they are afraid of Pence, and some could be peeled off to vote w Dems.

Plus at least Pence is not completely detached from reality, as is Trump.

JMHO

[marble falls]

13. And that's a good thing, but they'd give Pence the keys in a heart beat.

[emulatorloo]

14. Let's put it this way, Pence doesn't scare me enough to keep Trump!

[marble falls]

15. Scares me much more than cheetolini. Il douche makes Pence seem reasonable.

[Adrahil]

6. We won't be able to impeach until after November anyways...

And we SHOULD NOT impeach unless and until we believe we can secure a conviction in the Senate.

[marble falls]

9. absolutely!

[triron]

3. I think our founding father's could not see this coming.

Who could blame them?

[Hoyt]

4. Right now, I see no evidence Congress would impeach, much less convict trump even if

Mueller had convincing evidence of conspiracy and obstruction.

From what we know about this matter, it's clear trump tried to obstruct justice and trump's aides, kids, and who knows else, were doing all kinds of shady crud to get trump elected. It's obvious trump cannot separate his business interests from governing. All that ought to be enough for a fair Congress to act. But it hasn't.

One other thing -- whatever Mueller has, it is time he connects the dots as best he can and release a report. This country deserves that before the upcoming elections.

[shockey80]

7. Our founding fathers did see this coming.

Thats why they gave congress the power to impeach.

[kentuck]

10. And there is always the chance he will win the next election.

That would be much more disastrous than going thru an impeachment process.

[loyalsister]

16. Or

Impeachment proceeds Pence takes office after midterms potentially giving him a 10 yr presidency.

[kennetha]

11. Another weakness of Presidential Systems

Very hard to "cancel" the mandate of the executive.


It is much easier, though still fraught, in a Parliamentary system. Snap elections can be called and won or loss.

Votes of no confidence can be taken which force new elections and a new government.

In some states of the US recall elections can be mounted by a petition of the people

Some states do not have a unified executive. So that the attorney general does not serve at the pleasure of the president but is supposed to be a neutral and non-political administrator of justice.

Our founding fathers did not think hard enough about the need to cancel the mandate of a lawless executive. They relied far too heavily on the separation of powers and institutional jealously. But did not foresee the corrosive effects of the rise of intense partisanship and that partisan prerogatives would come to trump institutional ones so that a Congress controlled by the same party as the Presidency would fail to check even a lawless executive like this one.

Bad design.

We NEED impeachment. And we need the Congress to step up and be counted. Otherwise we may as well bid farewell to the rule of law.

[cbdo2007]

17. So excited for them to take Trump and Pence down!!

[rock]

18. "Impeachment is never good for America ... "

I prefer, "The impeachee is never good for America ... " I feel "impeachment" itself is like a shot of penicillin.