"American Airlines' Tiny New Bathrooms Test Limits Of What U.S. Passengers Will Put Up With"

[A HERETIC I AM]

Sink only large enough to wash one hand at a time!

25 seconds.

24 inches.

Neither is very large in terms of time or space. But both are huge indicators of just what travelers from different cultures are and are not willing to endure.

Last week the rail company that operates trains that pass through Notogawa Station in Shiga Prefecture, Japan, just east of Kyoto, apologized profusely for one of its trains departing the station – get this – 25 seconds EARLY. Most embarrassing, it was the second time it had happened, apparently ever. Back in November, a train departed Notogawa Stations 20 seconds early, triggering a major outcry among passengers who depend on those trains to get to work and back home again.

Meanwhile, the airline that flies more people more miles than any other in the world is, for the most part, ignoring the complaints of its own flight attendants -- and those of airline bloggers and consumer advocates -- that at just 24 inches wide the tiny restrooms installed on its brand new Boeing 737-MAX airplanes are too small and problematic for use by most adults.

In the former case, the deeply and swiftly apologetic response of the Japanese rail line tells us just how much market power Japanese rail travelers have, and how very demanding and exacting a group they are. Japanese rail travelers expect their trains to leave precisely on time, not one second late and not one second early. In fact, they organize their lives around such high degrees of operational precision and hold their service provider to a very high standard of performance.

But the latter case tells us that American Airlines officials believe – and may well be right – that they hold most or all of the cards and can get away with forcing 156 coach passengers to share just two lavatories that are so small a passenger only has room to wash one hand at a time. Indeed those restrooms are so narrow that passengers reportedly must decide before entering whether to walk in facing the toilet or to back in. That’s because once inside with the door closed there’s not enough room to turn around.

American Airline companies treat their passengers like cattle and those cattle just continue to put up with it.
I used to fly 6 to 10 times a year. I'm glad I don't have to fly anymore. The last time I did I paid for the 1st class upgrade, even though the flights weren't that long (Jax to Charlotte, Charlotte to Phoenix). It was worth every penny.


More here;

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielreed/2018/05/30/american-airlines-tiny-new-bathrooms-test-limits-of-what-u-s-passengers-will-put-up-with/#1ad5b6d55fc2

[ProudMNDemocrat]

1. Obese passangers not welcomed......

it appears. Even seats are narrower too in order to cram in more rows. Less leg room on longer flights.

[hunter]

51. Or tall passengers.

It's horrible.

[madaboutharry]

2. People, especially women, will end up urinating on themselves

It is disgraceful.

[FakeNoose]

7. They should hand out Depends with the barf bags

... but I agree, this is no laughing matter.

[appalachiablue]

18. Bedpans

[cwydro]

25. Especially women?

Wtf?

[madaboutharry]

27. Dear cwydro,

I don't know your gender, but I guarantee that most women know exactly what I am talking about.

Have a nice day.

[Croney]

30. Yep. At least men have the solution in hand.

[Control-Z]

36. Hahaha!

I'm thinking these lavatories were designed by a man.

[cwydro]

32. I am a woman.

I have never peed myself. Not since a child.

I travel a lot.

[madaboutharry]

35. Ok, let me explain what I mean.

I am talking about not having enough room to get the pee in the toilet and not on their leg or clothes. Not that women will go in their pants.

Have a nice day.

[Croney]

40. Also, once I've plopped my fat bottom down,

how am I supposed to get the paper in there to wipe? And that, I fear, is TMI. Lol

[Control-Z]

38. Have you had children?

I'm lucky after 3 not to have any issues but know many women who do and can't even sneeze without a little leak. Is you've had kids and have no issues you should consider yourself lucky. I sure do.

[Hekate]

56. Oh yes we do. Remind me to never fly American Airlines again. nt

[hlthe2b]

3. Heavens, it is already ridiculous to see guys with big football player type builds trying to get in

there (and yes, I'm ignoring the issues with the obese as they are not the only ones impacted).

At what point is this going to end? I keep expecting some enterprising lawyer to collect info on travelers who developed blood clots after flying and launching a class action suit now that seats are so small, aisles so narrow, and opportunities to get up, even momentarily (to prevent leg clots) have all but disappeared.

[csziggy]

13. This is only one of the reasons we are taking a cruise ship to the UK next year

An 18 day voyage on the Queen Elizabeth that stops several places along the way is CHEAPER than flying first class on an airplane. With both my husband and I aging, my joint replacements and heart problems, family histories of blood clots, my size, and my husband's long legs, there is no way we would want to fly any way other than first class. Add to that TSA and the other inconveniences of flying today and I decided we would take a transatlantic cruise both ways.

The trip over will cost about three quarters of a first class flight to England, the trip back about one quarter (repositioning cruise so well discounted). Though the cruises add a month to our trip, we're retired and have the time. If we were in a hurry, there are cruise that only take six days rather than two weeks.

[Siwsan]

14. I did a crossing on the QE2. It was an amazing experience

I want to take another cruise on the new Queen Mary.

[bettyellen]

19. My friends did that and got so bored with the other passengers that they

Decided to check out what is behind the employees only door and they found a whole world in there that they much preferred, restaurants and bars and fun people, ha ha.

[Siwsan]

22. I met an amazing group of people, on the cruise

We all spent a whole lot of time together - mostly dinner and afterwards.

We all ate in the 'tourist' section but all of the bars, including first class, were open to all passengers. So, we hung out in the first class bars. One night I met Hermes Pan, who was a very famous Hollywood choreographer - including work with Fred Astaire and Rita Hayworth. I spent hours, one night, drinking cocktails with him and listening to amazing stories about 'Classic Hollywood'. It truly was the time of my life.

[bettyellen]

28. Wow, Herms Pan- amazing! Well these were two single guys probably also looking

For some hook ups, and that’s cool too. One was really enamoured of those ships and always wanted to do the trip. I guess they were a bit younger and single compared to most passengers.

[csziggy]

58. That's my big worry - but we will have a balcony room

So if we get bored we can go sit on our private balcony and watch the ocean. I'll have a needlework project or two plus I will be reviewing the genealogy we want to cover while we're in the UK. My husband will be going through that, too, and have some books to read.

[unc70]

17. Crossed three times on QE2 back in 1970s

First Class on the QE2 was wonderful. The weather could be a problem in May -- 25+ foot seas with 70+ knot winds. Had to rope the hallways.

[csziggy]

59. We're going over late July, early August

And the ship will be headed pretty much straight north from Fort Lauderdale, Florida. It's stopping in Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Iceland and then Greenrock, Scotland (near Glasgow). We're getting off in Scotland and will miss Dublin.

On the way back the ship leaves Southampton in late October, goes all the way across to the Caribbean, stops at St. Maarten, St. Thomas, San Juan (PR), and Haiti before returning to Fort Lauderdale.

I'm just hoping next year is a slow one for hurricanes!

[A HERETIC I AM]

49. I crossed westbound on the SS United States 50 years ago this past September

If I had the means, ship would be my preferred travel means, even coast to coast!

[OriginalGeek]

54. THat sounds amaaaaaaazing

I'm a big fan of cruising. I'm putting that on our bucket list.

[Hekate]

57. What a great recommendation.

I tried using up my miles on a first class RT trip Calif to NY and it was very educational. As in: despite weekly advertising emails to the contrary, no way in hell did my miles cover a RT ticket, so I chose RT outbound and economy-plus returning.

First class came with cracked leather seats and food I could not eat, no "special" meals like kosher or diabetic or salads, but they did offer me booze at 8:00 a.m.

Economy-plus had adequate leg room, and I could purchase better meals than had been offered in first class. However, the "plus" part was not covered by my miles, and a surcharge was imposed every time I changed planes, adding $111 to my return.

[Turbineguy]

4. Captain High

at your service.

[brewens]

5. This is one of my favorite Pink Panther scenes.

I flown Skywest a few times on their regional jets. I don't know the make of the planes but they are pretty tight all around. I mean to tell you, do what you can to avoid having to use the bathroom! Skipping coffee in the morning sucks, but not as bad as having to use that little thing, especially if your a big guy like me.

[Uncle Joe]

6. Just another microcosm reflecting the ethos of our culture, money first and people

a distant second.

Whether it be governmental policies in regards to health care, education, justice or economics it's all part of the same mosaic.


Thanks for the thread A HERETIC I AM

[A HERETIC I AM]

11. I've said this numerous times;

Profit trumps the public good in this country.

Thanks for the thread A HERETIC I AM

You're very welcome

[pnwest]

8. Once upon a time, Non-stop flights were first choice - but I'm sure I'm not alone now in

actually CHOOSING layovers, so I can stretch my legs and take a breather from being so cramped, and use a decent, human-sized bathroom. I don't eat or drink on the flight.

Fucking ridiculous.

[MountainMama]

47. I feel the same way.....

I have to fly from Phoenix to Pittsburgh to visit family (in WV, natch) and I almost like layovers better myself. After about two hours on a plane, I need to get up and stretch and there's just not enough room. I'm big, so that doesn't help.

If bathrooms keep getting smaller, I'll have to start purposefully scheduling layovers.

[Lifelong Protester]

9. What about a cane user? Or a walker??

[Hekate]

60. Or someone with small children?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. But everybody wants low fares.

I'm not defending this - it's ridiculous and I hope other airlines don't do the same - but airlines are extremely expensive to operate and have fixed costs that they can't do much about, particularly fuel (that's getting more expensive again), and the operation and maintenance of aircraft. They can keep costs down only by reducing wages (usually by outsourcing ground personnel), eliminating services, reducing aircraft empty weight and increasing passenger loads. Making lavs smaller means there's less non-revenue weight to carry and a little more room to squeeze in another revenue-creating passenger. But they can go only so far with these measures, and at some point they are going to have to raise their fares, which they haven't done because they don't want to lose customers. American Airlines' current passengers might have to decide whether they want to pay a little more to fly on another airline that has bathrooms they can turn around in, or maybe they'll decide that a cheaper ticket is worth it. Isn't capitalism wonderful?

[jberryhill]

12. Yep - keep hitting the lowest number on Kayak, and that's what happens

[LisaM]

31. I think you've hit the nail on the head. People don't want to pay for the services they want.

Every $25 discount you get probably impacts someone's job, the comfort level in their seats, the food you get or don't get, and the list goes on. Everyone, but everyone, wants discounts, discounts, discounts, and yet they somehow want full service, too.

People fly a lot more than they used to, too. I was never even on a plane until my mid-twenties, but now I see full families flying all over the place. My niece and nephew in their early twenties have probably logged more miles than I have at this point.

[RobinA]

42. Right, With Airlines

losing as much money as they are, this is to be expected.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

55. Airline profit margins are actually quite a bit lower than for a lot of industries.

All corporations are in business to make a profit, of course. They have that legal obligation to their shareholders. I worked for an airline that went through bankruptcy, and the people that got hit hardest were, of course, the employees. It was not a fun time. So, rather than make money the airline can operate at a loss and ultimately screw its employees. Been there, have had that done to me. What really needs to happen is some sort of re-regulation, as before the Airline Deregulation Act, when the airlines could provide good service, pay its employees adequately and keep its airplanes safe, because they were guaranteed certain routes and rates. It was more expensive to fly in those days, but as is the case with most other things, you get what you pay for.

[malthaussen]

15. And once again, they'll find there is no limit.

Bet they're already designing smaller ones.

-- Mal

[A HERETIC I AM]

16. Soon they'll just give you a hose at your seat, eh?

[erronis]

24. In-seat toilets. They actually have these in some smaller jets.

If it was combined with one of those nice Japanese bidet-style butt cleaners, perhaps?

[Pepsidog]

20. A sad statement of how low we consumers are regarded by corporate America.

[whathehell]

23. Yes

You hit it on the nose.

[whathehell]

21. Glad I fly United..

Cheezy jerks.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

26. So - what, ADA does not apply? Dont have to be obese to not be able to manage this nt

[yorkie77]

29. I am 5'4" tall and weigh 112

I could not easily fit
I complained to the stewardess who said everyone is upset about the same thing. I was just thinking about this issue today, given I have to fly across country and I am hoping there will not be this problem on Alaska Airlines

[StatGirl]

53. Wow, that is terrible.

Is it possible to file a complaint with the FAA?

I'm flying via Delta soon; I hope they haven't implemented this yet.

[jmbar2]

33. Seems like a comfortable experience would be a competitive advantage

Once they get everyone resigned to extreme discomfort and there are no alternatives, then they will raise the rates in unison.

I hope competition emerges around human comfort. I would pay extra for it. They just need to include the seat and bathroom dimensions in the online prices. I think people would vote for more comfort in droves.

[BannonsLiver]

39. A lot of this information is available on seatguru.com

Seat width, pitch and layouts of pretty much every airline. I think the bathroom sizes are ridiculous, along with a lot of other things. But I've found educating myself with this kind of information is the difference between a tolerable, and miserable experience. On the upside, I can now wow people at parties with my knowledge of the pros and cons of various aircraft commonly used by airlines all over the world from a comfort standpoint. It's a real show stopper.

[DFW]

34. I HATE flying domestic in the USA.

Virgin America was OK, but they have been bought up by Alaskan, although my few flights on Alaskan were tolerable. As for back and forth to the USA from here, there is ONE route where I always fly a US airline (Delta), because they are the only airline that flies nonstop from the South (Atlanta, in this case) to Düsseldorf. Otherwise? Air France; KLN or British. My younger daughter tells me Lufthansa has cleaned up their act to the point where they are decent again. For a while, they were so customer-unfriendly that I switched to Air France permanently. AF has now bought up KLM, and while AF's food is better, it isn't MUCH better, and the Dutch in-flight service personnel is just wonderful (it probably helps that I speak Dutch).

I despise American for its non-existent passenger service, and awful accommodations. Using a 2 X 4 as a size measurement for lavatories is a cynical way to free up more space for seats, but not one that surprises me on the part of American, and if you live in Dallas (or have to travel back there often), there aren't often many alternatives unless you don't mind changing planes two or three times on the way to your destination. With the increasing traffic in and out of Love Field (near my house and my office in Dallas), I am increasingly finding alternatives to American. Last time, I even got a Delta flight from Love Field connecting directly with the nonstop Delta flight from Atlanta to Düsseldorf. American? Never heard of them. One word of warning, though. If you fly Delta a lot and have access to their lounge in terminal E in Atlanta, beware of their food offering. It may not be on a level with the British business lounge in Heathrow 5, but it's enough to spoil your appetite for the food on any long-haul flight you may be connecting with. AND--their lavatories on their planes are still wide enough so you can wash both your hands at the same time!

[RobinA]

44. Yeah, This

Very few people have much choice when buying plane tickets. I’m in PHL and am stuck with AA on most overseas flights. I like to fly Southwest for domestic and they have a few non stops out of PHL but not many. I’ll pay a little extra to fly them, but sometimes it isn’t possible.

[bobbieinok]

37. In other words, no one with walker or broken llimb welcome. And bet the weight limit's low

[Yavin4]

41. Traveling by Bus is becoming more attractive than flying n/t

[Blue_Tires]

43. American passengers will put up with *anything* as long as the seat price stays low...

And we have repeatedly reinforced this rule in the 20 or so years since we started booking through travel sites...

So now we're reaping the consequences...

[oberliner]

46. Would people pay more for flights with larger bathrooms?

Seems like the market can test that question.

[Blue_Tires]

48. In theory, yes... But that's the old way of thinking

Airlines used to believe the bulk of the flying public would be discerning enough to still pay a little more for their fare because they serve real food in their meals or they give you the whole can for the drink or they have more legroom, seat pitch better service, etc. etc. but that shit doesn't show up on Orbitz/Priceline/Hotwire/Travelocity/whatever, nor do customers look for it... All we do is "organize search results by lowest price" and pick the one at the top of the list... So it has been a race to the bottom ever since.

[oberliner]

50. That's a good point

And a very unfortunate one.

I would say that for me personally I do prefer certain airlines over others and would pay a bit more to fly them (though not a ton more).

[oberliner]

45. Will capitalism take care of this?

Or is American the only option for flights in some markets?

[DonCoquixote]

52. annd this is also why

Most GOP hate Amtrak. They want NO rival to the Airlines.