Bernie Sanders slams Trump over steel and aluminum tariffs

[TomCADem]

I am not sure what to make of this. Is this a flip-flop? Steel is a commodity with prices generally set on the open market. Steel is not like a car where the make and point of origin make a difference in the nature of the good. Yet, Bernie is trying to say that we should exempt out steel that comes from Canada even though most steel that is imported into the U.S. comes from Canada?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-factbox/factbox-top-steel-exporters-to-the-united-states-idUSKCN1GE10I

1. Canada 16.7 percent

2. Brazil 13.2 percent

3. South Korea 9.7 percent

4. Mexico 9.4 percent

5. Russia 8.1 percent

China does not even make the top 5 and Mexico is only in fourth place. China is 10th place at 2.9 percent. Has Bernie Sanders suddenly become a free trader?

Or, is it because it Canada is mostly white and does not look as foreign? Afterall, Bernie is totally fine with tariffs against Mexicans and Chinese. Does someone want to explain Bernie's apparent flip flop?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/economy/sanders-slams-trump-over-steel-and-aluminum-tariffs

Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., slammed the Trump administration Friday for its move to impose steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada, Mexico, and European Union.

The senator, usually an advocate of protectionist trade policies, said the administration's policy was "haphazard and reckless" for not exempting Canada from the tariffs.

"I strongly support imposing stiff penalties on countries like China, Russia, South Korea and Vietnam to prevent them from illegally dumping steel and aluminum into the U.S. and throughout the world. American steel and aluminum workers need our help, and they need it now, but not at the expense of farmers, workers, small businesses and consumers in Vermont and throughout this country," Sanders said.

On Friday U.S. tariffs of 25 percent on imported steel and 10 percent on imported aluminum went into effect against Canada, Mexico, and the European Union. The trading partners had previously been exempted from the tariffs, first announced in March, as a temporary measure to see if the U.S. could resolve various trade disputes with them. After several weeks of talks with no progress, the U.S. announced Thursday the exemptions would be lifted.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

1. Let the Bernie bashing begin!!!

[TomCADem]

5. Amazing How Asking for Answers Is Bashing. Fake News!

Is this is what our country has come to? You ask a question, and people start screaming fake news! Bias! They are hating on Trump, er Bernie!

[George II]

6. Bashing? Just HOW is that post "Bernie bashing"? It's a post containing FACTS....

....and only facts.

Of course it wasn't a glowing OP praising Sanders and everything he's done since he marched on Washington 55 years ago so obviously it HAS to be "bashing".

[TomCADem]

11. Bernie Sanders: Job-Killing Trade Deals Hurt Pennsylvania Workers

Thank you.

Also, is it just me, but I thought that Bernie Sanders had made attacks on NAFTA a key plank of his trade policy and Canada, not China, is a member of NAFTA. Yet, when Bernie attacked steel imports and NAFTA, he would focus on countries that did not have white people like China and Japan even though (1) they are not part of NAFTA and (2) they really do not import that much steel into the U.S.

But there I go again with facts and quotes.

https://berniesanders.com/press-release/job-killing-trade-deals-hurt-pennsylvania-workers/

The North American Free Trade Agreement cost 850,000 good-paying jobs in the United States, including 26,300 in Pennsylvania. Normalized trade relations with China which led to the loss of 3.2 million jobs including 122,600 in Pennsylvania. Sanders opposed both agreements while Secretary Clinton supported them.

He cited examples of how bad trade deals have hurt Pennsylvania.

* * *
He pledged to rewrite the worst trade deals of the last 30 years, including NAFTA. Sanders will also impose countervailing tariffs on imports from China and Japan until they stop dumping steel into the United States and stop manipulating their currencies.

At the news conference here, Sanders was joined by President Mike Smith of the United Steelworkers Local 1557-2 and President Scott Slawson of the United Electrical Workers Local 506.

[Sophia4]

2. Canadians are well paid, paid incomes similar to those of Americans.

Could that be a reason? Just asking.

The term "dumping" suggests to me that the product is made through some means that makes production cheap. Also, if you dump something, it is because you want to get rid of it at below-market prices.

Am I wrong about this?

Isn't the concern by those who oppose free trade about supporting Americans' good living standard and livable wages?

I think we Democrats have to explain how we will do that in today's global economy. How do we maintain good jobs at good pay and import products made in countries in which working people are not paid well.

[TomCADem]

7. There Is No Exploitation of the 99% In America and Canada? Good to know.

Who knew? All this time we were complaining about the exploitation of the working class, but it turns out that Americans, as well as Canadians, are doing just fine.

[Power 2 the People]

3. Now we're quoting the Washington Examiner??

Looks to me like some concerned troll Bernie bashing.

Anyway. If the quote is indeed accurate,who could argue with what Bernie is saying?

"I strongly support imposing stiff penalties on countries like China, Russia, South Korea and Vietnam to prevent them from ILLEGALLY dumping steel and aluminum into the U.S. and throughout the world.

[George II]

8. Ah, now we're resorting to calling a long-time member of DU a "troll"? Sad.

[TomCADem]

9. Sanders statement on Trump tariffs

The quote certainly seems accurate. It does appear that Bernie is overlooking the top steel importer into the U.S.

https://vermontbiz.com/news/2018/june/02/sanders-statement-trump-tariffs

Sanders: "We need a trade policy that is fair to American workers, not just large multi-national corporations. We need to stop the hemorrhaging of American jobs as large corporations shut down in the United States and move to low-wage countries.

"Donald Trump’s haphazard and reckless plan to impose tariffs on Canada and the European Union is an absolute disaster that will cause unnecessary economic pain to farmers, manufacturers and consumers in Vermont and throughout the country.

"I strongly support imposing stiff penalties on countries like China, Russia, South Korea and Vietnam to prevent them from illegally dumping steel and aluminum into the U.S. and throughout the world. American steel and aluminum workers need our help, and they need it now, but not at the expense of farmers, workers, small businesses and consumers in Vermont and throughout this country. Given Vermont’s proximity to Canada and our strong trade relations with Canada, these policies will be especially harmful to Vermont and other northern border states. It simply makes no sense to start a trade war with Canada, the European Union and others who are engaged in fair trade, are not cheating and where workers are paid a living wage with good benefits.

"If Trump were serious about protecting good-paying American jobs he would sign an executive order today to prevent large companies that outsource jobs to low-wage countries from receiving lucrative federal contracts and corporate welfare. Instead of imposing piecemeal tariffs on our trading partners, he should comprehensively and fundamentally re-write all of our failed unfettered trade policies to stop the race to the bottom and lift living standards in the U.S. and throughout the world."

[m-lekktor]

13. I was alerted on and had my post removed for linking to the Washington Examiner in a post once.

The reason for removal. "using right wing source".

[QC]

22. Any port in a storm. n/t

[Demsrule86]

4. No bashing here. Bernie is correct. The tariffs as Trump did them do not hurt the dumpers but our

allies...it was stupid...and shitler is planning to use American tax dollars to save Chinese spy phone jobs. I believe in tariffs done correctly...but Trump is completely stupid.

[TomCADem]

10. So, Paying $300/Ton to a Chinese or Mexican Company is Dumping...

...But paying $300/Ton to a Canadian company is okay?

Again, we are not talking goods, we are talking raw material that is pretty fungible. I would not think that an American worker would really care if they are being undercut by someone from Canada versus someone from China or Mexico. But, I guess it is easier to scapegoat foreigners if they don't look like you.

Also, doesn't Bernie want to end NAFTA and doesn't the U.S. buy cheap steel from Canada due to NAFTA? How is this not a flip flop? Here is Bernie railing against NAFTA and imported steel in 2016. It certainly does not look like Bernie is calling for preserving NAFTA as to Canada. Also, isn't it funny how he focuses on China and Japan even though they barely make a dent in terms of importation of steel in to the U.S.:

https://berniesanders.com/press-release/job-killing-trade-deals-hurt-pennsylvania-workers/

Clinton recently signaled that she might seek modifications in the pact, but Sanders said that’s not enough. “I will not renegotiate the TPP, I will reject it. I will not send any trade deals to Congress that make it easier for corporations to shut down in this country and move abroad.”

He pledged to rewrite the worst trade deals of the last 30 years, including NAFTA. Sanders will also impose countervailing tariffs on imports from China and Japan until they stop dumping steel into the United States and stop manipulating their currencies.

At the news conference here, Sanders was joined by President Mike Smith of the United Steelworkers Local 1557-2 and President Scott Slawson of the United Electrical Workers Local 506.

Pennsylvania voters go to the polls on April 26 to decide how the state will allocate its 189 pledged delegates to the Democratic National Convention this summer in Philadelphia.

[Demsrule86]

15. Canadian companies have not been accused of dumping. Chinese companies dump all the time.

China is a way worse country for this...and steel tariffs are useless at the moment as we don't have steel infrastructure...it is mostly gone...it has only hurt American auto makers.

[TomCADem]

18. But the Facts Show Otherwise Re Steel

I know this is a talking point that is often repeated and many folks are inclined to assume the worst of China dating back to decades of racism. However, despite the xenophobic rhetoric, China is not even in the top 5 when it comes to US steel imports.

Canada, not China or Mexico, is the #1 Steel importer to the US.

[Demsrule86]

23. That is simply not true...the facts other than Trump's fairytales do not show this...and these

tariffs only hurt American auto manufacturing...making imports cheaper who are not being punished with tariffs. Steel is now a shitty industry which pays very badly not like the old days-it has literally been shipped overseas...but autos still offer benefits and decent salaries. Trump is dumb and his version of tariffs is even dumber ...now since the economic argument won't work for these idiots...Trump now says breathlessly that it is national security...I am sure that Canada is a huge threat to our national security while China is our friend...sarcasm big time. I have been involved for years with autos...I know the damage of globalism...but the idea that imposing tariffs will fix it all shows a lack of understanding of our situation...these tariffs will hurt more people than they helps and will cost many jobs in the end and will give tariffs a bad name for decades which is unfortunate because done correctly, they can work.

[Demsrule86]

17. Many jobs in Ohio went to Mexico...and now if you try to relocate back here, Mexico

takes the entire company. away. You can't take any presses etc back..you get nothing back. So Mexico needs to stop that.No doubt we need trade reform...it is not working for our workers...but you have to be smart about it.

[Power 2 the People]

12. Yes!

Bernie is in favor of "FAIR trade" not "NO trade."

His comment was not a contradiction but was what he has consistently said for 30+ years.

"I strongly support imposing stiff penalties on countries like China, Russia, South Korea and Vietnam to prevent them from ILLEGALLY dumping steel and aluminum into the U.S. and throughout the world.

[Blue_true]

14. Someone pointed out.

What is the difference between $300 per ton steel from Canada and $300 per ton steel from Japan or China? If American producers produce steel for $400 per ton, Canada, Japan and China hurt the same.

[Demsrule86]

16. I agree completely.

[paleotn]

19. You do realize

that cost structures in Canada and the EU are higher than the US. Our supposed inability to compete with them in basic materials says more about US manufacturing then that of Canada or the EU.

[TomCADem]

20. If Canada and EU Are More Capital Intensive and Automated, Isn't That Unfair?

In other words, if as you say that Canada and EU have higher labor costs than US, but due to manufacturing, exploit robots and technology, isn't that still unfair to U.S. workers? If it is tough to compete with cheaper labor, it must really be tough to compete with robots and machinery who are not paid wages? Thus, isn't a tariff just as appropriate to protect U.S. workers form unfair competition?

Indeed, Japan has a higher cost of living, labor costs, and quality than the U.S. Yet, they are also import more steel into the U.S. than China, yet I don't see Bernie asking that they be exempted even though the argument you make regarding Canada and the EU should apply to them.

At the end of the day, i think a lot of it is driven by prejudice and racism against non-whites. Canada and the EU seems less "foreign" to many Americans. So, it is easy for folks like Bernie and Trump to demonize them.

[paleotn]

21. Steel and aluminum manufacturing is heavily automated...

both in the US and in Canada, the EU, Korea, Japan, etc. There's really not that much difference in manufacturing processes. Thus, the tariffs in question aren't appropriate at all. My point being, if US manufacturers need protection, it's due to bad management verses unfairness to US workers.

With respect to China, their cost structure is lower overall than ours in these basic materials industries, but are also heavily automated today, just not quite to the extent of western competitors. The problem with China isn't one of race, but economic structure. Many basic industries are still owned by the government, with huge amounts of redundant capacity during economic downturns. Thus, to keep their plants humming, the Chinese are willing to keep producing at a loss (dumping). It keeps their workers happy and employed, but creates huge imbalances in the global economy. American, Canadian and EU manufacturers, operating in a more traditional, capitalist economic system, don't have that ability. They produce at a loss, they go out of business. Governments usually don't have to file bankruptcy.

[Demsrule86]

24. We are talking about world wide Dumping which has hurt.

My hubs company is losing money thanks to Trump's tariffs...Fucking idiot Trump is costing jobs in Ohio and Michigan.


"But the industry is under threat from steelmakers in competing countries, especially China, which has emerged as by far the largest and most powerful producer on earth.

China now produces about half of the world's steel. It singlehandedly churns out as much steel in one year as the entire world did in 2000.

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During the same time, the U.S. share of global production has fallen from 12 percent to 5 percent today, says Eswar Prasad, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and professor of trade policy at Cornell University".

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/08/591637097/china-churns-out-half-the-worlds-steel-and-other-steelmakers-feel-pinched