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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDNC rule change angers Sanders supporters
By DAVID SIDERS 06/08/2018 11:32 PM EDT
Democratic National Committee officials on Friday moved forward with a proposal to force the partys presidential candidates to identify as Democrats, a move that drew immediate criticism from a top official in Bernie Sanders 2016 campaign.
The prospective rule change, approved by the DNCs Rules and Bylaws Committee, would not necessarily impact Sanders, the independent Vermont senator who ran for president as a Democrat.
Sources familiar with the discussion said officials believed the rule change could help garner support for a separate bid to reduce the influence of superdelegates in the partys presidential nomination process a priority of Sanders supporters after the 2016 election. Both proposals are scheduled to be considered by the full DNC in August. Still, Mark Longabaugh, a senior adviser to Sanders 2016 presidential campaign, bristled at the DNC committees action.
I really dont get the motivation for the resolution at all, he said. You know, Bernie Sanders got 13 million votes in 2016. Thousands, if not millions, of those votes were young people and independents he brought into the Democratic Party. And Im just stunned that the Democratic Partys rules committee would want to try to make the Democratic Party an exclusive club, for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate.
more
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/08/dnc-rule-change-sanders-supporters-634998
samnsara
(17,622 posts)manor321
(3,344 posts)"...for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate."
The rule is for the candidate, not the voters, dipshit.
This extremely commonsense and logical rule reveals the true intentions of these attackers: they want to destroy the Democratic party.
trueblue2007
(17,218 posts)Look at the hurt that was thrown at Hillary. Horrible, just horrible.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Regarding the superdelegate rule change, it won't have any impact on the nomination result.
Regarding the rule that candidates must be Democrats, all someone has to do is be party-affiliated. It doesn't say they have to have been party-affiliated for X amount of time before seeking the nomination, or that they have to remain party-affiliated after running.
Now, if we really want to address the exclusion of people, we'll get rid of disenfranchising caucuses. That is far more important and would be far more impactful than either of the above rule changes.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)I wish individual states would do away with that which is clearly anti-democratic.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,986 posts)The state Democratic part still uses caucuses to choose delegates.
In 2016 Bernie Sanders won the caucuses. Hillary won the primary.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,986 posts)In spite of it having no overall effect.
The difference in the vote count though I think confirms what you say about caucuses not being Democratic.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Cha
(297,240 posts)jmowreader
(50,557 posts)Candidate must have won at least one election for state legislator, governor or Member of Congress.
Cha
(297,240 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)Cha
(297,240 posts)Repubs and such can RF.
That would be a Beautiful Thing, Me!
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I think you are focusing on the underlined text from lines 24-39. However, look at the text in lines 19-24:
...accomplishment, public writings and/or public statements affirmatively demonstrates that they are faithful to the interests, welfare and success of the Democratic Party of the United States and will participate in the Convention in good faith.
--------------------------------
I would like to see lines 1-19 but if this is any indication, the rule seems much more broad in scope to mean that anyone who has been crapping all over the party and its platform is excluded.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...this doesn't really change things. The phrase "in good faith" is ambiguous.
This rule could have been in place years ago and it wouldn't have kept Sanders out in 2016.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)requirements that are more firmly set.
Based on 19-24 alone, I can see challenges being mounted to Sanders' candidacy right off the bat in 2016 if this rule was in place. He is clearly not eligible under this rule. He has not been faithful to the party's interests.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Again, "faithful to the party's interests" is too ambiguous.
Sure, let's see what lines 1-18 say, but 19-39 are not going to be sufficient to do what people seem to think this 'rule' will accomplish.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)food, any judge or jury would make that decision pretty easily.
You can't be faithful to an organization's interests and then do nothing but criticize it. This isn't hard.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)The last thing we want is a public court battle over keeping someone from running. That would spell disaster.
Do away with caucuses, and fringe candidates won't stand a chance.
Besides, the race in 2016 was over by the 2nd week of March. Much of what Sanders says bugs me, but he's not going to get nominated. And, again, a public battle over keeping him from running would be a horrible mistake.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)once and for all. If it means one more lost election because of the fight but then it never happens again, I am OK with that.
The other thing is, just the fact that this rule is in place and there is a question as to whether someone is eligible will cause real problems for that person in raising money and in various folks taking their candidacy seriously.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Regardless, a court battle over this would be an absolute disaster. Republicans would twist it into "Democratic Party voter suppression" or some such nonsense, and it would alienate people like nothing else.
The rule will have to stipulate that candidates must have been party-affiliated for X amount of time if we hope to keep the likes of Sanders out. In the meantime, if Sanders wants to run and lose, we have to let him. But we can certainly counter his nonsense claims at every turn.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)this rule, "...accomplishment, public writings and/or public statements affirmatively demonstrates that they are faithful to the interests, welfare and success of the Democratic Party of the United States"
It's very easy to see that Sander's writings in the 20-30 years before running were anything but that, his attempt to primary the sitting President of the party was anything but that. This is not hard at all.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Republicans would twist it into "Democratic Party voter suppression" or some such nonsense, and it would alienate people like nothing else.
I still think the rule will have to stipulate that candidates must have been party-affiliated for X amount of time if we really hope to keep the likes of Sanders out. In the meantime, if Sanders wants to run and lose, then so be it. But we can certainly counter his nonsense claims at every turn.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)Ted certainly took it a lot further than just saying that a primary challenge would be warranted. And before that Senator Eugene McCarthy ran against LBJ while he was serving as a Democratic President. Would they have violated these proposed rule changes?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Was that really so hard to understand?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But Im not sure what Kennedy and McCarthy did 39 and 50 years ago, respectively, in different times, within a different party and under different rules - has to do with this particular rule change in 2018.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)The assumption here seems to be that Democrats typically stand united behind our leaders, and should not put up with any criticism of them or of the policies that the Democratic Party has embraced. That is historically inaccurate. And it didn't end 39 years ago. Bill Clinton ran as a "New Democrat" in 1992, positioning himself as an agent of change against tired and discredited Democratic Ideology.
My point in bringing this up is not to cast judgement for or against the wisdom or necessity of the positions Bill Clinton took in 1992 - that is a different debate, and that was a different time. My point is that both Eugene McCarthy and Ted Kennedy challenged Democratic leadership and/or orthodoxy from the Left, and then Bill Clinton did so from the Right starting in 1992 (actually earlier than that). These were not exactly marginal figures in Democratic Party history.
I found a campaign commercial for Clinton/Gore 1992. Here is the link (transcription below):
http://www.livingroomcandidate.org/commercials/1992/leaders-2
"There's a new generation of Democrats: Bill Clinton and Al Gore. They don't think the way the old Democratic Party did. They've called for an end of Welfare as we know it, so Welfare can be a second chance, not a way of life. They've sent a strong signal to criminals by supporting the death penalty. And they've rejected the old tax and spend politics. Clinton's balanced 12 budgets. And they've proposed a new plan investing in people detailing 140 Billion dollars in spending cuts they'd make right now. Clinton - Gore: for people, for a change"
Bill Clinton explicitly ran as an insurgent against "the old Democratic Party". In attempting to distance himself from it he validated Republican talking points about Democrats and "Tax and Spend politics". He was running as much against the Party of Walter Mondale as he was against any Republican.
In many ways criticisms that Bernie Sanders has made more recently about centrist tendencies among some Democrats is mild in comparison to the way Bill Clinton laced into "Big government" "tax and spend" "old Democrats" in his day.
mythology
(9,527 posts)He said he thought it would be good for small d democracy for there to be a primary. He didn't run, he didn't endorse any of the people who did.
Which just serves to underscore just how ambiguous the suggested rule is. You think that saying what Sanders said is harmful to the party (difficult to argue when it had no noticeable impact on Obama's reelection) is objectively harmful, I would argue an unbiased person would disagree. You have an end goal in mind, no Sanders, and working backwards from that conclusion. Your standard isn't something you can objectively measure. In April 2008, the Democratic primary was effectively over as there was no plausible path for Clinton to catch up. Was her staying in the election detrimental to the Democratic party since Obama was going to be the nominee?
If in 2000 a candidate said the party should endorse marriage equality, that would have gone against the party platform and against the conventional wisdom at the time that marriage equality was something that would cost us votes?
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Wow let me get my fainting couch and clutch muh pearls!
Cha
(297,240 posts)oasis
(49,387 posts)to join, sign up, if not then stfu.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)The Dem party would like its candidates to be ... Dems! Seems logical to me!
The only thing that I don't like about this rule is that it may not prevent what actually happened in 2016, when an I candidate changed registration to D ONLY for the purposes of the Presidential nomination/election and, when unsuccessful, immediately reverted to I.
But it's a start.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Unless the rule change stipulates that a candidate must have been party-affiliated for X amount of time prior to seeking the nomination, or that the candidate must remain party-affiliated after running.
And the superdelegate thing is much ado about nothing. They exist in case the potential nominee is someone who is, more than likely, unelectable.
Of course, if there's a fear that the voters will select a fringe candidate who can't win the general election, the best thing the party can do is get rid of caucuses, which disenfranchise so many people. There's certainly a correlation between those who are most likely to take part in caucuses (a very long and public process that many don't have the time or inclination to take part in) and support for fringe candidates.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)thoughts on caucuses!
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)over them and blackmail them.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)in any way over the Democratic party by virtue of Democratic voters, so any alternative argument to that makes no sense whatsoever. He can't blackmail or walk all over the democratic party. His power within it is proportionate to the will of democratic voters.
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)I am talking the idea of allowing independents to vote in Democratic primaries...I actually meant Jane and Sen. Sanders and Our revolution...also the Greens. There has been statements lately that are thinly veiled threats by some of these folks. I am sick of it. I am against open primaries. Here in Ohio the GOP uses our open primary system to screw with Democratic candidates. I believe you need to join the party in order to participate in primaries
JCanete
(5,272 posts)Jane said wasn't a thinly veiled threat, or not the way I heard it. It was her opinion on the current state of things.
I belive that you can use that as your criteria to vote or not vote for a candidate and the rest of us can continue to use ours, and I don't want our leadership making that decision for us.
Takket
(21,568 posts)This smacks of the right wing elitist dog whistle.
Cha
(297,240 posts)NY_20th
(1,028 posts)disavowed Republicans such as Richard Painter. The rule is not just about Bernie Sanders, it's to prevent a Trump like situation.
If you recall, there was concern in the Republican party that Trump would decide to run as an Independent if he did not win the nomination. That's why they drafted their loyalty pledge.
This new rule will prevent a situation like that from occurring in our party.
UTUSN
(70,695 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,986 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Well before he decided to run for office.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Just one of many great Democrats.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)No more of this being a temporary Democrat deal and then whining about how corrupt Hillary cheated and denied you your rightful victory by miraculously forcing millions of more people to vote for her than him. Want Democratic money and support? Be a Democrat. Join us in the fight against Republicans, instead of joining the Republicans in the fight against us.
If you don't like it, then form your own party.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)I think the message is crystal clear and I approve this message.
ismnotwasm
(41,980 posts)I know a few of them think a third party is a good idea, I mean there are ready quite a number of parties, depending on how one defines them, perhaps they are thinking of a new one?
ChrisTee
(63 posts)They admit in the article Sanders votes were largely outside party voters, in a party primary.
To put 13 million up when it is knowingly not the base does not win the argument.
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)Shhh, dont let on, but you can actually qualify by merely ticking the box next to Democratic Party on the party-affiliation section of your application form. VERY exclusive club indeed.
And yes, membership has its privileges. Dont beg for a daily ride to work and then stiff the carpool fund on gas money.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)the problem
Bondor
(63 posts)Personally, I respect Bernie Sanders' moral vision more than I trust the Democratic party's. Sure, they are better than Repugs, but IMO Bernie is more true to the ideals I think the Dem party is about than are many Dems -- Looking at you, Debbie Wasserman Schultz. And others.
Drive out Bernie and you might drive out me. Multiply that by a few million votes, and you start to see why a rules change aimed at excluding Bernie might just be a bad idea. Could almost have been proposed just to hurt the Dem party, if i were thinking conspiracy.
But intentional or no, the dems are sure to lose votes over a rule like that. Just Sayin'.
DFW
(54,379 posts)He IS out. Proudly so, and of his own free will.
The DNC is merely saying, and not only to Sanders, if you wish to join us, welcome, but do so because you mean it and intend to stay.
The Democratic Party is not a port of convenience, whose hospitality is to be taken advantage of in a storm, and then abandoned once the tempest has passed.
still_one
(92,190 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Telling people you are better than them is insulting and superficial. I dont trust the morals of a man who savagely maligned a woman knowing she could not respond to him so as to not upset his supporters. Calling millions of people vile names just to promote his brand. I could go on and get even more specific about his morals, but.......
He has extended more olive branches to Trump supporters than rank and file Dems. There isnt going to be a way to handle another round of this unnecessary divisiveness. This rule is about damm time, but it also keeps those like Trump out. Look at the disaster he is. Reality star mafia men dont need to sit in the White House.
Cha
(297,240 posts)and Well, RB
spooky3
(34,452 posts)a weak record of getting things done while in office. I'll vote for the Dem nominee no matter who it is, but hope that really effective people will come forward in the primaries.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)about the so-called morals, but......
it's freaking ridiculous.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)NY_20th
(1,028 posts)The rule is in place to prevent a Trump like situation happening in our party.
Right now you should be focused on your local and State 2018 primaries. Most change happens locally.
You also need to understand that Bernie Sanders might not be on the 2020 ballot by his own choice. You need to pay attention to other politicians and to learn about their positions. Keeping a mindset of what appears to be "Bernie or bust" is not going to help you in the long run, nor is it going to help legislate positions that are important to you.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I don't trust the moral vision of someone that claims he is a common man, but resists making his tax returns public. I guess different people have different standards for moral vision. Mine is a person that has nothing that he or she wants to hide.
Cha
(297,240 posts)is Brilliant.. we have Amazingly MORAL LEADERS out there Fighting on the Front Lines Against Fascism.
There's no time for Fucking 3rd parties with their Fucking LIES like Jill Stein.
The Rule is.. You have to be a Dem to run for POTUS.
If that's too hard for you then too bad.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I really resent these insinuations of "you do what I want or else". Democracies don't work like that. Join the party, present your ideas and vision, win primaries and nominations, that is how change happens.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...where Sanders suggests just that and its referred to as pure poison by our fellow DUers.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10710442
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)If you can find a direct quote where Bernie says hes ready to join the party and work from within I am sure it would be celebrated here.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Bernie started out be saying that there is essentially no difference between democrats and republicans. He said nothing about him and his followers joining the party and doing the hard work of developing grassroots support. He celebrated people that register as Independents, because the two parties does nothing for them (which is a bald faced untruth). When Bernie says that he will join the party and fight to change the things that he sees as wrong, then good, but he is NOT saying that, he is saying my party is as morally bankrupt as the Republican Party, that claim is completely absurd.
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Additionally there are lots of Democratic politicians who are left liberals/progressives.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)The foundation of white privilege
Hekate
(90,690 posts)Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Figures.
Hey EffieBlack
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)I would never consider not voting for the only party that can stop Trump and the GOP...for any reason.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I assume you are a member of the Democratic Party? And will vote for our candidate?
If not, this is not the site for you.
Bondor
(63 posts)..and i am not saying Bernie is always right. I am sure we can all agree there are worlds of difference between Bernie and Trump in so many ways.
Frankly, I hope to see the center of gravity for the Democratic party shifted to the left. I like Bernie and Warren because they help us do that. IMO those people are real progressives, and IMO progressive ideas are what the Democratic party is about. I am sure some others will disagree vehemently.
To me, the ideas of justice and fairness and truth are more important than a particular organization. Where i believe the organization lives by those values great. Where the two might diverge, i follow what i think is true. The D's are WAAAY WAAY better than the R's on that count, but we are not entirely pristine either.
My point is that there is good common ground between most Bernie supporters and the Democratic party, and putting in place a policy almost guaranteed to alienate Bernie supporters is not a great idea, strategically speaking. Not threatening here. It is true that my vote will go to the D every time. However, some politicians deserve more from me than others. Winning by rigging things is how the R's play. I do not think it should be how D's play. If someone wins the majority of Dem primary votes, they should be the nominee of the Dem party. Period.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)He's not a Democrat.
In fact, he could solve the problem just by saying he IS a Democrat.
Hekate
(90,690 posts)Nobody is chaining you down.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Kajun Gal
(1,907 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)Cha
(297,240 posts)And, FYI.. it's the Democratic Party.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Cha
(297,240 posts)Good on the Democratic Party!
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Kajun Gal
(1,907 posts)Cha
(297,240 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)RandySF
(58,835 posts)gibraltar72
(7,504 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Even those who think they're too special.
trueblue2007
(17,218 posts)as a Dem if he is AN INDEPENDENT!!! If he wants to join, more power to him but no Independent can destroy our party.
Not saying Sanders is doing that but the constant criticism is very bad.
Join the Dems, Bernie !!!
still_one
(92,190 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 11, 2018, 02:03 AM - Edit history (1)
Were these so-called Sanders supporters who are upset by this, also the ones who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election?
I wonder............
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)Cha
(297,240 posts)seen some who are all mad.. seems like they didn't even understand that you only had to be a Dem to run for POTUS
still_one
(92,190 posts)Cha
(297,240 posts)would have thought it was. lol
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)The Party is simply evolving.
They'll always do what's right for their great & enduring Party of All people.
It's what they should be doing.
VOTE BLUE
chillfactor
(7,576 posts)you are either a Democrat or you are not.....no in-between.
betsuni
(25,526 posts)Wwcd
(6,288 posts)I think that was the answer from Quora, btw
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)The intent is petty because Sanders has a better record voting with Democrats than most Democrats.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)Oh, wait...he isnt a D.
RandySF
(58,835 posts)We have a real war to fight.
Hekate
(90,690 posts)YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)They are perpetually angry.
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)"Sanders, the independent senator from Vermont, infuriated many establishment Democrats when he ran against Hillary Clinton as a Democrat in 2016"
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)This article makes me smile https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/09/berned-out
Rumpled, crumpled, Trumpled
The energy on the left is focused on opposing Mr Trumps attack on liberal democracy, not on carrying forward Mr Sanderss revolution. The success of moderate candidates in the Democratic primaries suggests this is making the party more pragmatic and mindful of party unity than Mr Sanders, an ideologue who is not a Democratic Party member, might like.