To those who think we should be "uncivil" to the Trump folks, a simple question:

[brooklynite]

What are you trying to accomplish?

1. Changing the minds of the Trump people?

2. Convincing Trump voters to support Democrats?

3. Getting the Democratic Base more worked up?

4. Making yourself feel better?

[LW1977]

1. Fuck civility!

Sorry but I’m done with this defeatist bullshit! Being civil with these Nazis only causes them to walk all over us, so fuck being nice to these assholes!

[Chickensoup]

15. I just think some people have a different point of view that contradict human history.

you cannot defeat nazis with roses. The weaker your responds the more emboldened they will be
and we all will pay a heavy price.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

24. You pretty much summed it up for me.

[Atman]

49. That's my stance.

Fuck civility

[Still In Wisconsin]

2. I want to make them hurt.

It's really that simple. If the game's been decided, and I think it has, I just want to give them some pain before I'm gone. That's all that's left.

[madaboutharry]

3. It's a no win situation

If you’re “uncivil” you feed into their victimhood drama bullshit.

If you play by the rules, they get into their bulldozers and roll right over you.

[NRaleighLiberal]

4. what has the high road done for us? We look weak. period.

[get the red out]

77. This!!!!!!! eom

[mythology]

88. You may remember that Obama guy

Got a lot done.

[lapislzi]

106. That the merry band of thieves is undoing as fast as they can.

Your legacy is only as good as the SCOTUS du jour.

[atreides1]

109. True

Obama was the President, are you the President? And most the Trumpists were still hiding under rocks and living in caves, because being a racist and a bigot out in the open was frowned upon in polite society!!!

The guy in the White House now, is the best US asset that the Russians ever had...he leads a cult of both religious and racist fanatics, and the only interest Trump has is in how much he can get for selling this country out!!!


But, really have you changed any Trumpists minds by being civil, be honest?

[jrthin]

115. Exactly. The high road in some instances mean that you are alone

on top of that mountain breathing rarified air, feeling better than, or superior.

[ProudLib72]

5. 5. Gain control of the narrative

[pandr32]

14. Bingo

That is exactly what we need to do--leaving Republicans to go on the defensive. They aren't very good at it and scramble to keep their stories straight. Just when they think they've found an approach the psychopath in the White House tweets or bloviates a complete contradiction.
We need to take advantage and lead.

[ProudLib72]

19. That's right

The snowflakes cry foul when we do something, any little thing, but they get away with kidnapping and murder. Where are our voices? If we are meek little lambs, our voices do not rise above the din of the RW outrage. If we are "uncivil", we will get noticed.

[dalton99a]

17. +1. Why let them dictate our behavior?

Fuck that shit

[0rganism]

37. +1

nice to see people getting "it"

[Lordquinton]

50. Right now this thread is playing to theirs

Tone policing is a common tactic, usually uused against opressed peoples and minorities. One could say it's a racist tactic due to how it's usually deployed especially with Senate Dems uniting against a powerful black woman.

[lunatica]

125. Agreed

[TheFrenchRazor]

133. so now the narrative is about who can kick who out of a restaurant, instead of about a thousand

a thousand other more important things. well, that worked brilliantly.

[msongs]

6. one shuns that which is unworthy of association. Bernie brings McConnell to my restaurant to dine...

sorry not gonna let them in. one has a certain right to association and bernie and his buddy are not a protected class.

PS - don't have a restaurant, but if I did....

[Lordquinton]

53. You must have your Sanders mixed up, It's Sarah that got the boot

[deurbano]

57. She's responding to what Bernie said it about it.

[47of74]

58. Either would not be welcome in my home or business if I owned one.

I don't care how many fucksticks come out of the woodwork either to whine.

[elleng]

7. Thanks

[backtoblue]

8. K&R

[Chickensoup]

9. I am so sorry that you are missing the entire point. To explain it

to you, I have to advice you to study the entire human history, my friend.
You are looking at the trees and missing the forest.

[njhoneybadger]

10. Would you be civil to someone who put your child in a cage. No you wouldn't.

And you wouldn't ask yourself what am I trying to accomplish.

[Chickensoup]

16. very good point.

[MaryMagdaline]

86. Thank you

Not even something we have to think twice about

[vi5]

11. To let them know that their actions have consequences

To let them know it was and is not ok to bring their bigoted, racist opinions out of the closet.

They are doing this now and being so bold because they live in a bibbleand are told that theor beliefs are right and that they are a majority.

They need to know this is not the case.

I dont expect that they are going to become Liberal or not racist regardless of whether I’m civil or uncivil, but they need to know that its not ok to be the way they are and to hurt people the way they are doing.

We will not win these people over by reaching out and being nice to them.

[Lars39]

28. Shunning is part of Christian Fundamentalism.

They know how to do it and when they are being shunned.

[still_one]

23. "so have your questions been answered Troll?" I think it is pretty obvious who the troll is

infesting this place, and it isn't the OP

Ya made a wrong turn, bud, and people can see right through you

I suspect your time here will be quite brief

[cynatnite]

13. Frankly, I could care less about them...

I don't care to engage them in any way whether it's civilly or uncivilly.

They're not going to change their minds until it hits them personally or their wallets. Even then, they'd likely blame someone else.

My energy is better directed elsewhere.

[Scruffy1]

61. Exactly.

My father told me over fifty years ago to never wrestle with a pig. They love it and you get dirty. i shun them. Don't bother answering their questions and don't bother to argue with nonsense.

[ecstatic]

18. Forcing nasty, openly racist and/or bigoted behavior back under the bridge

where it belongs?

[leftstreet]

21. +1

It's hard to see any other way to do it, other than by public shaming

[smirkymonkey]

20. Because. They are paper tigers. They are on the offensive because we have shown

them that they can be and get away with it. When we hit back they will see that we are not going to take their crap anymore lying down. Bullies continue to bully as long as the victims put up with it. They only back down when you fight back. In reality, they are insecure little cowards who will curl up in a little ball when presented with strength by their opponents.

[Solly Mack]

22. Kneeling to protest police brutality and the murder of POC is very civil.

How'd that play with Trump supporters? How did they respond to that civility?

Exact same way they responded to Huckster, Jr. missing a meal.

By figuratively, and literally, flinging shit.

[world wide wally]

25. Choices #1 an 2 are out of the question.

#3 and 4 work for me

[raven mad]

26. One of each. n/t

[wasupaloopa]

27. Showing them what it is like to take what they dish out.

[treestar]

29. To stand up to the bullies that they are

Being civil to bullies gets you what?

[VOX]

30. It's all moot. They run the show now, and will for a long time.

They have all three branches of government, and a complete lock on the Supreme Court for decades, so even a "blue wave" in November won't stop the ever-rightward fascist drift-- any contested issues will be tossed to SCOTUS for very predictable results.

Being a Democrat/progressive/whatever now means having some discipline, and ceasing ALL the infighting, so incremental changes can have a chance.

[Lint Head]

31. Agree 1000%.

[NanceGreggs]

32. Why do you think ...

... that being uncivil to "Trump folks" requires an explanation, or any justification?

[Moostache]

33. None of your choices....

I stand up to their bullshit and rampant, raging racism and hate because THAT IS WHAT YOU DO TO BULLIES, PERIOD!

When I was 9 years old and the local 11 year old bully tried to steal my brother's bicycle, I did not act "civil" and hand it over...we fought and even though he was bigger and older, he did NOT expect that and he LOST.

This is NO FUCKING DIFFERENT.

They are thugs and bullies and hypocrites all, FUCK THEM. FUCK THEM HARD....

RISE UP 2018 and TAKE CHARGE 2020, period.
If the GOP doesn't like it, fuck them harder. Its been past time to put them in a fucking corner for 40 years...if you want "civility" I suggest you start forming a third party, because the Democrats are going to get this message or perish forever.

[Tumbulu]

56. Yes!!!!

Exactly how I feel!

[Shemp Howard]

34. I agree with you, I think.

Last edited Thu Jun 28, 2018, 12:43 AM - Edit history (1)

This whole "uncivil" thing has me depressed. Trump started it. He insults his fellow Americans. He calls them names, and he belittles them. And Trump supporters chant "Lock her up" whenever Hillary's name is mentioned. That's childish, and divisive.

Then Kathy Griffin holds up a mock Trump severed head. Sarah Sanders gets kicked out of a restaurant, for no real reason. That's also childish, and divisive.

But no one will admit to it. Each side just points fingers at the other side. Look! See what they just did!

And that's one reason I haven't posted much lately. I'm too depressed. I wish a sane, calm person were running this country. I wish Joe Biden were president.

[TheFrenchRazor]

38. yep; apparently, saying "they did it first" makes it all good. nt

[AnotherMother4Peace]

62. It's not uncivil to say your analogy is false & shows a lack understanding

Saying “but mom they did it first” would usually refer to eating a donut or taking a brothers toy. We’re talking racism, kidnapping babies and putting children in cages, mocking people with disabilities. Moral outrage and confrontation is the correct response.

[TheFrenchRazor]

71. it is you who lack understanding; kicking somebody out of a restaurant does nothing to change the

things you mentioned. all it does is give repugs an excuse to change the subject and whine about how "uncivil" we are.

[NoMoreRepugs]

108. The restaurant owner had the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to

do what she did - PERIOD. I support her.

[TheFrenchRazor]

132. you changed the subject; nobody is saying she didn't have the right. nt

[AnotherMother4Peace]

35. I do not respect & tolerate people who condone child abuse, cheating, racism, etc. I'm tired of them

[TheFrenchRazor]

36. but Mom...they did it first!!! it's great to see that the democratic party is the party of ideas and

higher standards... well, apparently not. sadly, there is apparently no level too low for some people here to sink to as long as they can claim that the're just copying republicans. personally, being a copy-cat republican is not why i became a democrat. there are so many better and more important ways for democrats to "be tough;' having an infantile temper tantrum and throwing somebody out of a restaurant is not the way to do it.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

42. "infantile temper tantrum" - is that how you frame it? The WH is staffed by Nazis & racists. No way

would I want that bunch in my restaurant. US democracy is truly, truly at risk. We cannot be "copy-cat" enablers that allowed Hitlers rise to power. We need to make it known, and take action.

[TheFrenchRazor]

72. see #71. nt

[Tatiana]

39. To Make Racism and Fascism Shameful Again!

That's part of the problem. These Republicans have no shame. Many cultures use shame as a correctional tool to guide behavior and I see exercises in public shaming toward Trump officials no differently.

The less shame they have, the more reprehensible their behavior gets. After consistent taunting and shaming, maybe they'll hesitate before plunging ahead with some of their hateful policies.

[MaryMagdaline]

84. Yes. Social shaming is a useful tool

We can’t forget that gay marriage and other civil rights were helped, in part, by making bigotry socially unacceptable.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

40. It shouldn't be framed as "uncivil". It's a matter of calling out racism, child abuse, etc.

and not putting up with the bullshit. It's not being silent when atrocities are taking place. Silence just condoned the Nazis.

[TheFrenchRazor]

73. might there be a better place to do that than in a restaurant? how much time/energy has been

wasted on this absurdity, which has only given repugs an opportunity to change the subject and whine about rude democrats?

[c-rational]

41. Showing appropriate moral outrage. You present four false choices.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

43. Four false choices are presented, framed in a way to shame people, rather than moral outrage &action

[smirkymonkey]

64. +1000

[standingtall]

44. Trump supporters need to be ostracized

probably what we should've done a long time ago. Their behavior is unacceptable and even if we cannot change their minds we can deter the younger generation from developing the same sentiments as Trump supporters.

[smirkymonkey]

70. +1000

I like your style.

[MaryMagdaline]

85. K&R

[Tipperary]

99. Wow, you sound tough.

So has du changed from the channel flippers, the magazine flippers, the dirty look givers, the safety pin wearers? How many posts I read here of posters actually BRAGGING about skulking in the magazine aisle, then boasting “I turned over 6 magazines without getting caught yay me!” How many posts about being afraid to even display a bumper sticker?

Suddenly all this timidness has changed? Nah, it’s one thing to speak rudely to your fellow Dems and act tough on a discussion board.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

100. You don't know dick about me for one. No fucking clue where and how I grew up. Nor the

shot I've been through since coming to this country. Nor should you. But maybe next time ask before talking shit. Now as to the post above. Plain and simple the OP has a tendency to condescend to people here while bragging about how good he's got it. You wanna talk about "fellow Dems"? There are plenty right here who feel threatened, scared and hopeless. But every chance this guy gets to talk down to them and dismiss their concerns. There he is.
Are some people here hyperbolic at times and a little too quick to react? Sure. But most people haven't been through this crazy shit, at least not to this intensity, before.

If that's ok by you, great. But that's none of my business.

Oh and I don't engage in any of the bullshit you described above. Maybe go run at the mouth to those who do.

[Tipperary]

111. Lol.

Bless your heart.

[DonCoquixote]

46. here is the response

What are you trying to accomplish?

1. Changing the minds of the Trump people?

we have tried logic, but they assume that we are weak because we try to be nice even as they spit at and shoot at us, they need to know that while we can be polite, we are under no obligation to be

2. Convincing Trump voters to support Democrats?

That will only happens when trump's policies hurt them and the churches cannot mollify that pain

3. Getting the Democratic Base more worked up?
Yes, we need them active and angry
4. Making yourself feel better?

see 1-3

[Raine]

47. Exactly

when it comes down to it nothing good will come of it that advances our goals at all..

[Caliman73]

48. Civility is not the issue. People are using "civil" because that is the way it is framed.

People on the right have used vulgar and demeaning language to describe their opponent (us) for decades. From "longhairs" to "yippies" to "thugs" etc... They have operated with virtual impunity using violent rhetoric and imagery like putting crosshairs on the faces of Democratic political candidates or calling doctors "Tiller the baby killer", then when one of their constituents actually carries out an act of violence in their name, they hide behind the idea that "it was just words..." or they deny their actions.

When we push back, EVERY TIME, they come out with this "civility" bullshit. Protest is part of the civic process. It is part of the civil debate. It is part of civilization. We are not out overturning cars, bombing medical clinics, training people to brawl in the streets like the Proud Boys. A restaurant owner asked Trump's professional liar to leave a restaurant. People protested Nielsen when at a Mexican restaurant shortly after defending a horrific policy change that took babies and children from parents. Same with Miller. They went to Nielsen's home and played recordings of the children she helped to separate from their parents crying.

Are those 3 things uncivil? Perhaps. They are certainly more assertive than the left has typically been in the last few years. Are they in ANY way comparable to what right wingers have done? NO, without qualification, NO.

You can wring your hands about civility if you want while the right wing continues to do whatever the hell it wants because it knows that we will navel gaze if they tell us we're being "mean".

[tulipsandroses]

67. They even use it against their own when necessary - I'm not sure what we are not getting

Going way way back - Straight out of the Dirty Tricks of Lee Atwater PlayBook - Going way back. Republican Primary 2000 Bush vs McCain .They had all those flyers of John McCain fathering a black child- His adopted daughter Bridget.

[Atman]

51. Why only those four choices?

Lots of other reasons, too.

[Lordquinton]

52. You're in good company

Paul Ryan was calling for Civility too

I'll side with Maxine Waters over one of the people responsible for the situation our country faces, thanks.

[czarjak]

54. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Whatsyougondo otherwise? Take it? Fuck that shit!

[KY_EnviroGuy]

55. I may not be uncivil but I won't be civil either.

Of all the Repugs I know, I can't stand to even speak with them. There is no reasoning with them because they are brainwashed.

I'm all for letting them hang themselves with their own rope.......

[47of74]

59. I'll be uncivil all day long to them.

There's no reaching Branch Trumpvidians anyways so fuck them and their bullshit calls for civility.

[Liberalhammer]

60. Fighting back

Strength

[tulipsandroses]

63. 5 - None of the Above- These People are still using Lee Atwater's Playbook -

I don't expect to change their minds - If by that you mean treat people with dignity and respect. I do expect to put pressure on the Trump administration and force them to do things like Trump had to do an about face like he did last week and stop separating families at the border due to public pressure. What is going on here is not normal. It calls for a different strategy in response.

What will make me feel better is making sure that the rights that I have, my 5 yr old niece will also have. That I can face her 15, 20 yrs from now and knowing I did something about what is going on and didn't worry about watching my manners.

[Adrahil]

65. 5. Show a fighting spirit.

MAGAts are used to hurling insults and lies with almost no pushback, because as thinking people, we understand nuance, recognize our own failures, etc. but this is war. The country is in a fundamental and vital struggle that will afeect this nation for generations. The time for politeness has passed. It has done us no good.

[KT2000]

66. the holocaust really happened

having grown up immersed in learning about this and having neighbors with numbers on their arms, I judged the Germans harshly for allowing it to happen. We know the progression and we are on track. The so-called leader of this country preaches hate for an ever expanding number of people. That is not OK when people tell me about their support of this and/or expect me to believe as they do.
You stand up for what is right. They do not care if people cannot get healthcare, they want women to be punished with unwanted children and cut their food stamps, and on and on. What is really uncivil?

[radius777]

68. Failure to mount a vigorous resistance would make liberals complicit

and basically apologists for Trump and the deplorables.

Many on the white left in this country simply don't get that vicious fascism (and not just standard conservatism) is being directed at vulnerable groups.

Being "civil" and "well behaved" should be the least of our concerns in the face of a civil rights crisis.

Team Hillary had the correct strategy (and it was a well thought out strategy) with 'Basket of Deplorables', and if not for the pearl clutchers it would have worked. It was designed to divide the GOP base and rally the Dem base which is heavily diverse (Obama coaltion) - the ones in the crosshairs of Trumpism.

Trump supporters have to be taken on directly; making excuses for them and kissing their asses allows them to feel normal which only helps to normalize the savagery of Trumpism.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

69. Totally agree.

And if folks are blown away by that...not sure what to tell them. They are vicious and vile and ugly. It's not who we are...but keep lecturing the militant base...and you folks will be watching fox news in a concentration camp somewhere. What do you suppose they would have planned for folks like you and I here on DU if things keep progressing? Kid yourself at your own peril. The gloves have to come off. Not sure about you, but, I'm ready. Got an anger that's been building since Nov 2016, and it's about to blow. See you this weekend.

[radius777]

78. Vigorous resistance should be non-violent,

but not necessarily pacifist.

The younger generations (like the Parkland kids, or at Charlottesville) show us the way, as they are compassionate and articulate, but also don't take shit and won't be pushed around verbally or physically.

The problem is the tendency for the media and some on the left/Dems to make excuses for the various factions of Trump voters, which only humanizes/normalizes such voters instead of forcing them to look in the mirror and take accountability for the fascism they've given us.

So Trumpers get humanized while Trumpism dehumanizes immigrants, PoC, lgbt, the poor, women, etc.

[marble falls]

83. They talk violence. We don't.

[FSogol]

91. Encouraging other to be violent? Gee, who does that?

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

116. I'm not encouraging anyone to be violent. My post refers to THEM being that way.

In the end....I wonder if it comes to that though...if you'd roll over for Naizis? We are in really grave times. I'm old. I've worked through ALL these freedoms that we arer about to lose. I saw violent picket lines. It's certainly not something I relish even thinking about. Some people only understand certain approaches. I'm not encouraging anything other than...read my post.

[FSogol]

117. My post wasn't in response to you, but was in response to reply #75

If you can't see directory tree, then the top right of any response shows what it is responding to.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

118. I gotcha. Ty.

Almost a knee jerk reaction to defend yourself 'round here sometimes. Just wanted to be clear. Thanks for that.

[JHan]

74. You know civility can be used to mask or deflect from heinousness... so riddle me this..

I hate answering questions with questions but tell me:

What is the appropriate civil response to Ann Coulter referring to distressed children separated from their parents as "child actors"? And her comments liked and cheered by Trump supporters?

what is the appropriate civil response to those who would harass victims of mass shootings and claim that traumatic events which happened to them never occurred, and not just stop there - but harass them online and send them death threats.. ?

what is the appropriate civil response to those who eschew facts, evidence, and reason in favor of hateful propaganda, and who vote in ways to hurt vulnerable groups of people?

It is impossible to engage with people who don't care about facts or truth.

Now I am sure there are Trump supporters who don't fall into extremes and are simply low information voters. Among any group of people who share similarities in political beliefs, you'll find a spectrum from the most fanatical to those who can be reasoned with...

But it is impossible to engage honestly with those who operate in bad faith and spite.

If this were merely about a difference of equally valid political opinions between groups then maybe this civility discourse would have a point to it - but that is NOT the case. The difference here is based on ethics and morality NOT Tone. There's no subjective interpretation to be made either since the difference is starkly clear.

Whether America wants to admit to this or not, she has a deplorable problem, and she needs to come to terms with that - pretending this political disease doesn't exist or draping civility over it will not make this disease go away.

[get the red out]

76. One and 2 are impossible

I believe it is important to put the resistance in their faces, being nice to them just empowers them and hasn't helped us at all. Going high didn't work, time to let them know we are pissed.

[dembotoz]

79. Enjoy being a good German

[MFM008]

80. Maggot lovers have left us

the vulnerable, the hungry, children, migrants, the sick and elderly to pretty much drop dead and our democracy our planet and our piece of minds in the hands of monsters, yet we should "walk away" or funnier..to be civil.
Um.........no.

[Skidmore]

81. So are we forever destined

to subject ourselves to lashing by these vile racists and misogynists? Do you think these people care about who they are harming when they cheer Trump on as he and his sycophants strip rights away. We've been civil too many times. Ask women. Ak black and Hispanic people. Ask the poor and the disabled.

[onethatcares]

82. push back

against the constant lying

[MaryMagdaline]

87. The very fact that you ask this question tells me that you are able to tolerate babies in cages

Let me ask you and the let’s-be-civil crowd:

At what point will you cease to be civil to the deplorables?

What deplorable act will be the last straw for you?

[quaker bill]

89. none of the above

what must be said, must be said. If it makes them uncomfortable to be told, then they should just stop. They have no right to be comfortable when they are separating families at the border. The notion that this is a "difference of opinion" and that they should be treated equitably is a conceit. The fact that they walk among us expecting different treatment because "they are just people" is the issue to be confronted.

[mythology]

90. Sadly, too many get caught up in lashing out in anger

They don't see how Republican anger against them hasn't changed their minds. They don't see the longer term impact on themselves and on our society. I spent far too much of my life angry at the world and all it did was eat me up inside.

[LuckyCharms]

92. To make them shut the fuck up. n/t

[Takket]

93. At this point being civil...

Is about as effective as telling a woman to “be a better wife” if her husband is abusing her. This is a fight for the very soul of the nation.

And I would answer your question as #3. We need people AWARE, angry and mobilized.

[GusBob]

94. I have a question

Why does it seem like all these "I have a simple question" posts always include more than one question?

[brooklynite]

96. I posted one question with the only four answers I could think of

[GusBob]

97. Yes I know

In which you kinda give me the answer I was thinking of

These types of "I have a simple question for DUers" posts always seem to be convoluted, and have an agenda, kinda like a push poll

[OneGrassRoot]

95. Waking up the silent middle...the Good Germans n/t

[Tipperary]

98. Excellent question.

I think some are just happy they can act like assholes and blame it on dotard.

[LanternWaste]

104. Which of the four options in the OP does your reponse illustrate?

I'm guessing your reponse is designed to either get the Democratic base more worked up or make yourself feel better.

[Tipperary]

110. My "reponse?" I assume you mean my response.

It illustrates none of those listed.

[LanternWaste]

101. Seems your pre-determined responses can be applied

It appears your arbitrary, limited, and pre-determined responses can be applied with the same relevance and agenda to "those who think we should be civil to the Trump folks...?"

[hlthe2b]

102. THIS:

I can't go to Planned Parenthood for a routine pap smear ...

Ally Maynard
‏
If I can’t go to Planned Parenthood for a routine pap smear without being screamed at and harassed by Christian protestors then Stephen Miller shouldn’t be able to eat his fucking salad without being called an asshole.


Hat Tip to https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210802541

[stonecutter357]

103. It's ok to be uncivil to racist pigs ...

[quickesst]

105. I think too many people...

.... are mistaking being uncivil for growing a spine. Boot print patterns have never looks good on me.

[GoCubsGo]

107. Neville Chamberlain lives!

[Paladin]

112. "Democrats keep pretending there are rules."

From today's Rude Pundit column, wherein he advocates Democrats fighting dirty. I agree with him.

[Caliman73]

119. There, I disagree.

What is "Fighting Dirty"?

To me, there are rules. We should not cheat like Republicans because then what? We win, but now live in a world where cheating is the norm, so we continue to up the ante until what?

We can be angry and fight hard, but not fight dirty.

There are more people who agree with liberal policies of kindness, equity, and tolerance of the differences in human expression. We need to find ways to activate that and mobilize people to participate in democracy. We don't want to hack voting, lie about Republicans, and be deliberately cruel to them.

We want to shout, loudly about the truth of what they are doing. We want to call them out and make them uncomfortable. We can shame them and shun them, which is what social animals do.

I guess it depends on what "Fighting Dirty" means. I am not willing to steal, cheat, and lie for political expedience. That would be like saying, "My extramarital affair saved my marriage". It has maybe happened that way, but typically those behaviors destroy relationships not save them.

[Paladin]

120. John Kerry got Swiftboated 15 years ago by the Republicans.

They've been cheating, lying and hating for years; they threw the rules away, decades ago. And today, President donald trump is planning, with the aid of a Republican legislative majority, to shift the Supreme Court to a solid 5-4 hyper-conservative voting bloc that will impact generations to come. You want to settle for a good conduct medal? Be my guest. That's not enough for me---it shouldn't be enough for any Democrat.

[Caliman73]

121. So we are staring with Binary thinking?

It is either cheat or lose? That is what you are saying? We have to lie, steal votes, cage and oppress Republican voters, distort history, and all other manner of dirty tactics?

What specific steps do you propose we take in "fighting dirty" to win elections?

I hope that you actually answer my question this time instead of assuming that I want a "good conduct medal".

What is "fighting dirty"? What actual things do you purport that Democrats do to win?

[Paladin]

124. I'm advocating that we fight the Republicans at their own low level, for the time being.

As unpleasant as that might be. I'm saying that we fight them in the gutter until we prevail---and then we put the old rules of fair play back in place. If that constitutes "binary thinking," then yeah, that's exactly what I'm advocating. I'm old and it's pretty much over for me, but I'd like my grandchildren to grow up in something approximating a decent country. Things have degenerated to elementary school bullying level---let's fucking do something about it. No point in your responding to this, by the way; I've been arguing with people like you here at DU for years. Your side has prevailed, and look at the result.

[MrsCoffee]

113. I wish people would quit telling us to be Good Germans.

Fuck Godwin.

All bets are off the table.

[jrthin]

114. I am not trying to accomplish any of the 4 items you listed.

My uncivil behavior is to tell a cruel politician that I am indignant. I want them to know that at least one person in the room (me) will tell them that they are inhumane. I want to shame them, if I can.

[gratuitous]

122. To the pittypats and schoolmarms

What is your definition of "uncivil"?

1. Is it speaking truth to power?

2. Is it afflicting the comfortable while comforting the afflicted?

3. Is it advocating for the oppressed instead of waiting for the oppressors to stop?

4. Is it anything that makes you feel bad that you're not doing anything but carping at people who are doing something?

[RandiFan1290]

134. Anything that might upset their tax cuts? nt

[lunatica]

123. Number 3

Getting Democrats to fight back effectively.

And winning at their own game. The Republican game that is.

[Blue_Tires]

126. 5. I'm trying to show them that I'm tired of double standards

and that I refuse to let them fuck around with me anymore... No more of that turn to the other cheek bullshit...

If the Republicans want "civility", they damn well better start showing some...


How is this a problem?

[hermetic]

127. Personally

I am telling them that when they come for me, and they will eventually, they can expect a fight. I will not go down easy. I will fight to the death other than live under their obnoxious rule. So, there ya go.

[Va Lefty]

128. What, exactly, has the high road got us?

Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results

[tblue37]

129. Shunning is an effective nonviolent means of punishing those who behave in socially

destructive ways. It warns them that recent people want nothing to do with them.

Right wingers exist in a bubble. They often don't realize that there can be social consequences to their nasty behavior.

I am all for shunning those who prop up Trump.

[rownesheck]

130. I'm at the point

where i want to start throwing punches. I will get my ass kicked because i don't fight and i could possibly be killed. Fuck it. At least i won't have to suffer this hell anymore. I'll go out in a blaze of glory just like bon Jovi says, and i don't even like his music.

[gopiscrap]

131. fuck trump voters they afre a lost cause

if democrats come and vote, we don't need them. They are all shit stain scum of the earth assholes who need to be eradicated for the good of society