Poll: 69% do not want ICE disbanded

[RandySF]

Link to tweet

?s=21

[Iliyah]

1. Never heard of this poll.

New?

[RandySF]

2. Harris have been in business for decades.

[chillfactor]

6. orry never head of this poll either n/t

[grantcart]

19. Next to Gallup Harris has the longest history leans Democratic

Has done less public polling recently

[Kablooie]

3. Disbanding is simply attacking a symptom while the disease of Trump continues to rage.

ICE needs new marching orders but unless Trump is gone, eliminating ICE won't do anything.

[wiley]

17. Spot on

We've discussed this at length already. How many more people want to support The Red Wave that this nonsense will guaranty?

[peggysue2]

55. Exactly!

Disbanding ICE might make us all feel better. But ICE is getting its marching orders from Trump and his enablers.

Excise the cause, not the symptom. Or the cancer will kill us all.

[JI7]

4. someone others have mentioned the messaging should be repeal and replace, how about Reform ICE

[RandySF]

7. We need an enforcement agency

Not everyone who crosses is well-intended and we have human trafficking cases. But the culture inside ICE is so rotten they defied Obama at every opportunity.

[Garrett78]

14. Investigations and enforcement should be separate agencies/departments-not under one giant umbrella.

For one thing, many won't cooperate with investigators due to their being part of the same agency as those responsible for detention and deportation (as a result, serious crimes don't get uncovered). Also, they currently pull from the same revenue stream, and investigators have lost funds in the name of giving more to those responsible for detention and deportation.

So, if people prefer "repeal and replace" to abolish, fine. But ICE has got to go.

To say nothing of the need for comprehensive immigration reform, alternatives to detention, and doing more to address the causes of mass migration around the globe.

[DeminPennswoods]

26. "Abolish ICE" is a simple, easy to understand message

It shows Dems are fighting and is interperted by most Americans as "stop this immigration nonsense". It's the most extreme position and compromise involves moving left, not right.

I'd be willing to bet before "abolish ICE" began, 80-90% of Americans didn't agree. Some tipping points are reached quickly and this could be one.

[mythology]

36. So in the absence of evidence, you assume it's in your favor?

[DeminPennswoods]

66. Is there an earlier poll asking this question?

If so, provide a link. Otherwise, your guess is as good as mine.

[treestar]

68. There has to be some enforcement mechanism

An extreme position you have no chance of getting is not a good bargaining position. Not unless you can make it happen.

[chillfactor]

5. Sorry but I strongly disagree

I have heard polls with the opposite point of view.

[RandySF]

8. Can we see?

[Garrett78]

9. It's hard to argue ICE is a necessity when it's only been in existence for 15 years.

But most people probably think ICE has been around forever.

[RandySF]

10. What did we have before ICE?

Was it INS?

[Garrett78]

11. INS and FPS

[superpatriotman]

29. +1000

This is the correct answer.

[Demsrule86]

35. We aren't going to get rid of ice...what we can do is reform it...I think many would agree with that

[Garrett78]

39. We aren't going to stop doing much of what ICE does.

But ICE itself should be repealed and replaced. Again, ICE is just 15 years old. This isn't some entrenched tradition.

[Demsrule86]

45. Do you want to lose in 18 and 20? Ice isn't going to be repealed period...but that message can

be used against us...I hate ICE but reform is all we can hope for...and immigration reform ...next time we have power.

[Garrett78]

47. See post #18. I don't think Democrats should even be talking about reform.

But it's worthy of discussion on DU. Eventually ICE needs to be tossed out and replaced. Its scope is much too great.

[OnDoutside]

12. Repeal and replace ?

😁

[Garrett78]

13. Yes, actually.

ICE is a ridiculously large agency that was created shortly after 9/11. It includes both investigations (of all sorts of crimes) and enforcement/detention/deportation. Those should be 2 distinct agencies with completely separate funding streams.

In spite of what a poll might say, ICE should be abolished...but if people prefer the language of "repeal and replace," then so be it.

More importantly, we need to create an easier path to citizenship, have alternatives to detention, and combat climate change and human rights abuses that lead to so much migration.

[OnDoutside]

15. Well that sort of language worked with Rep voters on other matters !

Rather than just shutting ICE down, which would be used in ads from here to the midterms, the Dems should be able to say, a better, more responsive agency would replace ICE.

[Garrett78]

18. I'm fine with that.

We obviously need various components of ICE, but not all under one giant umbrella. And it's vital that we do more to address root causes of human trafficking, migration, etc. If we neglect to make that part of the conversation, we are failing humanity.

To repeal is to abolish. And replacement is a given. I get, of course, the concern over simply calling for abolition. And even calling for replacement is problematic because so many just don't do nuance. And replacement is nuanced, or complex. The how and why won't fit on a bumper sticker. So, until Democrats are back in power and can actually replace ICE (with multiple, distinct agencies), Democrats should probably just focus on the wrongness of indefinite detention and family separation. Focus on the abuse and suffering.

Even when back in power, Democrats will have to invest time and energy in educating people about what ICE is, why it's problematic and what all should replace it. Replacing it will be an uphill battle even if we're in the majority.

[OnDoutside]

24. I agree with all that. My biggest concern is that the GOP would paint the lie that Democrats want to

get rid of ICE to allow open borders, which is a trap Dems definitely need to avoid.

[ooky]

49. The GOP (Fox Lies) is already on it.

[Garrett78]

50. They will and have been doing just that even without there being calls to abolish ICE.

But, as I said, I agree that calling for the abolition of ICE is not helpful. Focus on inhumane and illegal indefinite detention, family separation and the failure to reunite in spite of a court order.

Open borders and soft on crime is standard GOP rhetoric. We need to do a better job of controlling the narrative.

[OnDoutside]

57. !00% correct.

[wiley]

16. No Kidding

Democrats need to shut up now with this #abolishice carp, or create an effective message.

[Vinca]

20. There will always be immigration enforcement. The problem is the policy.

Calling for the abolishment of ICE only gives fodder to the right. We should be calling for new policies to change the way ICE operates.

[HopeAgain]

21. Reform

Is always a better word. We need to reform ICE the way Pruitt is reforming the EPA.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. The Question Is Poor

And stupid.

People who would have grave objections to the way ICE does business might not think it wise to DISBAND it, just limit the scope, do better screening of agents, and reform the mission.

If that's 20% of people (might be higher) then the "don't disband" number is inflated by at least that amount.

Hence, the poll is useless.

[Quemado]

23. I would walk away from this issue (for now).

Now is not the time to campaign on an issue that involves abolishing ICE.

Wait until the Democrats get back into power, then address the problems with ICE.

[SWBTATTReg]

27. Agree w/ your position but I think the repugs are going to try and hang this issue around the ...

necks of democrats anyway. Probably best answer is to investigate and/or reform ICE on a as needed basis, should issue come up w/. Rump is going to tweet storm just about everything that dems did wrong anyways, shift blame for everything onto dems, etc., ironic considering that repugs hold reins to government, not dems.

Right now, best issue to hammer rump, gop, and cronies w/ incompetence, corruption, and no compassion for the average person on the street in passing such a obviously very skewed tax bill (vastly favoring the corporations and the 1%ers).

[Garrett78]

40. Agreed. See post #18.

[Lee-Lee]

25. It's bad messaging and a poorly thought out position

ICE is just what used to be the INS and some of the intelligence/investigative arms of the Customs service rolled into one agency because before they both overlapped doing the same work and also didn’t communicate well between agencies so were inefficient.

The people pushing the “abolish ICE” platform seem to come from two camps that I have seen.

The first camp is the immigration activists who really do want it abolished with no replacement or any replacement to be a very small and limited organization, because they are opposed to enforcement of most immigration laws. They are the ones who started the movement and messaging.

The second group, the ones where it is gaining traction, are the “strap hangers”. The idea sounds good and people they see as solid progressives they want to be allies to are for it, so they are.

The problem is that most people hear either group say it and don’t support it. When they hear the first group say what they want is an end to immigration law enforcement and deportations they can’t support that. And the second group can’t really articulate what they want, they will yell or hashtag “Abolish ICE” but when you ask them what to replace it with or what laws they don’t want enforced you get blank stares.

It’s a winning issue for some Democratic candidates in some primaries. It’s going to be a losing issue big time in the general elections, especially if it stays on its current course where defending it means calling for not enforcing immigration laws or less enforcement of them. Either will make candidates in all but very safe districts get pummeled with messaging on it.

Keep your eyes open for Russian or right wing trolls trying to amplify the message and keep it as “Abolish ICE” instead of a more practical message.

[brooklynite]

28. ...and neither do I

This has become an emotional point for Democrats, but the demand is meaningless. If ICE was disbanded today, you'd need an immigration agency under another name, and it would still take direction from the White House.

[Blue_true]

60. I favor reform. ICE has been invaded over the years by a lot of workers that simply

don't like brown or black immigrants. The agency need administrators and supervisors that will fairly (no vendettas) weed those people out of the agency. There would need to be constant verification systems to insure that the process of getting rid of bad apples is working as intended (getting rid of haters and replacing them with professionals and doing it in a way that is fair and defensible).

ICE can play a valuable role in stopping terrorists from entering and going into countries to perform background checks on people that are applying for work permits and visas.

Someone pointed out that using the term Abolish ICE is a bad choice, I agree, most Americans simply won't go for that. But if we point out the valid issues with how ICE does it's job and propose reform ideas, including getting rid of people that have shown racial apathy toward the people that they should be interviewing then routing to the appropriate next step, I think that a majority of Americans would buy in.

[gratuitous]

30. It's only been a couple of weeks

And already 31% of the American people are fed up with the gestapo tactics ICE has been employing. That's a pretty significant percentage. Focusing on what ICE is actually doing rather than what it was fashioned to do or some other irrelevancy has moved public opinion substantially. Keep the pressure on, keep publicizing the kidnapping and torture, and fight for the oppressed. Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing - opposing this rotten, corrupt administration?

We just had millions of people out demonstrating against this draconian policy, demonstrations that scared Trump so bad he has started trying to sell lurid stories of Mexican gangs taking over cities and being driven out by ICE. This nutty "Red Dawn" fantasy is so ridiculous, so out of touch with reality, opposing it is obligatory.

[Lee-Lee]

33. One problem with your statement

“We just had millions of people demonstrating against this draconian policy”

Except the family desperation policy is all the work of Customs and Border Patrol, who handle all immigration cases at and near the border. Th u are the ones, along with the DOJ, enforcing the zero tolerance policy that seperates families.

ICE handles immigration enforcement outside of the area near the border. They are the ones who raid employers or pick you up at the jail when you get arrested for something and are undocumented.

Literally ICE and family seperation and two different agencies and issue.

People mixing the issues together are part of the problem here. If 100% of ICE quit working today the family seperations wouldn’t be affected at all.

[gratuitous]

43. It's a simple message, easily digestible

Kidnapping and torturing is wrong, and ICE is the enforcement arm of this cruel policy. Yeah, a lot of people would like to get Democrats off this incredibly damning and effective issue. Others would like to make it needlessly complicated, diffusing the focus and blunting the issue with argumentative minutiae. The fact that the administration is squirting out rationales by the bucketful because it's a losing issue for them.

So clearly Democrats need to abandon it.

[Lee-Lee]

53. So accuracy and honesty doesn't matter as long as the message works?

In fact ICE is not the enforcement arm that is doing the family separations. It is CPB.

[NoMoreRepugs]

31. Isn't that 31% # about the same as the % of

voters AKA "DEPLORABLES" that gave us tRump?

[GulfCoast66]

32. Count me in that group.

By all means reform it or even break up like it used to be. Even rename iT.

ICE is not inherently bad, just what it had been ordered to do.

Did we hear calls to abolish it during the 8 years Obama was in office?

Finally I wonder at some of the web chatter about this and where it originates. I know if I were a Republican nothing would make me happier than claiming Democrats want an open boarder only to have them start calling for the elimination of the immigration enforcement agency. That is shooting ourselves in the foot.

[still_one]

34. That isn't a surprise. Those pushing this are doing it for a sound bite. The fact is if ICE wasn't

there, they would replace it with something that provides its same function

The problem isn’t ICE per sey, but those administrators straying it, and using it beyond what it’s a ntended function with imbusive behavior

People who are responsible for those abuses need to be fired, and a massive clean up is needed

[NY_20th]

37. That's how I see it as well.

Trump is using it as his own personal police force against immigrants, well beyond what ICE was intended for.

Now that the point has been made though, the function of ICE should be clarified in any Immigration reform bill.

[Garrett78]

41. Its intended function is massive. That's the problem.

See posts #14 and #18.

[haele]

38. Split up ICE.

The part that actually does investigative work on international criminals and gangs, that does investigations on people who want long term visas, put back into the old INS structure.
Roll the ICE street force back into the Border Patrol, and keep them within that 100 miles of the border and directly stationed in the ports of entry, instead of haunting court houses, churches, and schools miles away from a border or a port.
There is a need for a federal port police and border patrol. But not the Stormtroopers that currently play immigration cops.

The FBI gang units - who I'm pretty sure are being neutered so they won't go after the Russian and Chinese gangs as well as they used to (Thanks Donald!) can easily be tracking the boogieman MS-13, along with all the other violent prison gangs they track.

There is such a thing as jurisdiction, and since 85-90% of MS-13 in the US are Americans, what ICE is really doing about immigrant crime is at best a drop in the bucket in the overall strategy against criminal gangs in the U.S. - providing intelligence on the few gang members from Central America who might be thinking about coming back up.

Speaking from someone who lives not only 20 miles from one of the largest US/Mexico border crossings, but also in the middle of the 10 mile area where four or five of the largest immigrant and refugee communities in the U.S. converge, this "checking the paint palette sample community Swat raid crap" they pull in the local minority and immigrant communities does more long-term harm in the fight against immigrant crime than it does good.

Haele

[Garrett78]

44. Yep. Having investigations and detention/deportation under 1 umbrella is disastrous.

People refuse to cooperate with investigators because of their ties to those who detain and deport. And because they pull from the same revenue stream, investigators have been short-changed as funds have been diverted to civil immigration enforcement.

Those who say ICE isn't the problem and that it just needs to be reformed (without actually saying what those reforms would be) don't understand, I'm betting, what ICE really is. What it's full scope is.

The 'reforms' that are necessary really amount to repeal and replace, not mere tweaking of the 15-year-old experiment known as ICE.

[LeftInTX]

63. Excellent response

[LeftInTX]

64. Sounds like the way it used to be

[Persondem]

42. This is the kind of stupid idea that some democrats trumpet to the heavens ... but

in reality, all it does is play into the GOP mantra that Dems want open borders, Dems want to allow Mexican "criminals" to into the country, Dems are bleeding heart weaklings who can't keep Americans safe. It's right up there with abolishing the second amendment.
It just provides sound bites for Hannity and his ilk.

We should want to fix immigration, make it fair and humane. We should point out the problems with ICE, but it's just plain stupid politically to want to abolish it.

[NCTraveler]

46. This shouldn't be about disbanding ICE. At all.

This crap kills us. Lets fight to disband ICE and put another enforcement agency in charge. Yes! That will make a huge difference.

Children are being separated from their parents. People are being sent back to horrific conditions. Indefinite detention.

ICE is just a distraction from congressional failures. This is an argument Republicans would love to have.

[Garrett78]

48. ICE involves much more than enforcement. And that's a problem.

The scope of the relatively new agency known as ICE is much too broad and actually does the opposite of making the US safer (see post #44). Most are ignorant of what ICE is, and of how new it is.

But that ignorance is why I agree that Democrats shouldn't bother with this issue right now. See post #18. Just focus on the illegality of indefinite family detention, and young children being taken from their parents.

Once back in power, fight for comprehensive immigration reform, which would include the necessary repeal and replacement of ICE. If you want proper cooperation with and funding for criminal investigations, the agency responsible for those investigations must be separate from the agency (and funding stream) that deals with civil immigration enforcement (and it's the latter that requires comprehensive reform, such as alternatives to detention and an easier path to citizenship). But that's all much too nuanced for the average voter. Deal with it once back in power. In the meantime, focus on inhumane detention of asylum-seekers and family separation, including the failure to reunite in spite of a court order.

[randr]

51. Once again the Dems have failed at framing the issue

This is precisely how they grab defeat out of the jaws of victory.
ISIS must be seen as anti-American and failing to protect us from real terrorists.

[Thomas Hurt]

52. not disband, reform, they should be used to address the demand, not try to stop the supply.

if they are serious about stopping illegal immigration, but the Pig is not. This is about a fascist grift to sell to the base.

open border, secure border, MS-13, just more newspeak propaganda.

[OliverQ]

54. I wish Dems would stop pushing this so hard right now.

It's just a bit wedge issue that may turn off some people who don't know much about ICE. Wait until you gain power to start pushing for the reform of something that Republicans can easily accuse you of being for open borders over.

It just seems like a bad strategy.

[bigtree]

59. then we'll just tell these voters affected, concerned, to sit this election out

...no problem, right?

You guys will bring in the votes?

[disillusioned73]

56. Soooo..

we have work to do

[Blue_true]

61. The work that we have to do is pull out heads out of our asses,

and stop phrasing ideas so poorly. Abolishing ICE is a non starter, full stop. Pointing out the issues with how ICE does it's job and how it recruits and hire, get people listening. The goal should be clearly stated as reforming ICE so that it does the job American citizens need it to do effectively.

[disillusioned73]

65. Did the R's talk and campaign about "REFORMING"

the ACA - the evil Obamacare???.. nope, REPEALING, destroying was their message... weak positions elicit weak voter turn out..

[DeminPennswoods]

67. Exactly

nt

[bigtree]

58. this is a strawman

...most politicians are talking about replacing the agency, or redirecting its mission.

I understand though why the republican opposition wants to make this the issue. It's like the rest of their strategy of lies. Pretend that opponents to the atrocities committed under Trump would leave America defenseless - a smokescreen while their marauding continues unabated.

Don't just post polls. Tell the truth about them.

[LeftInTX]

62. ICE also includes Customs Service - which was formed in 1789......

We need some organization at the border.......We need to kinda keep a count of people who are coming and going etc. (We don't need to follow up on them, but we can't just let the whole world in and not even have any type of processing) Even when my grandfather came in 1912, his entry was documented by INS at Ellis Island.

[peggysue2]

69. The whole problem with this Disband Ice movement is . . .

that it hands the Republicans an ugly stick to smack us all over the head. Disband ICE. Then what? The GOP is already accusing Dems of wanting open borders (a flat out lie) and being weak on gang crime (another lie).

But the lies stick while we're screaming for ICE's demise.

We really need a refresher course on the Art of Framing. Because this line of attack simply doesn't work. Except against Dems.