My son works with steel every day. This is what he said about non-American steel.

[dixiegrrrrl]

His job is laser cutting large complicated parts from sheets of steel and other metals.

All of our mild steel -- that's the regular stuff that a magnet sticks to -- comes strictly from the U.S. Has been the case for years and years. This is because, at first, we bought foreign steel. We quickly found that the properties of foreign steel varied widely enough to make cutting it nightmarish, as lasers are finicky beasts. We found that the differences between runs of steel from out of the states made us have to tune the laser to different specs every time we tried to cut.
Sometimes, even, the differing qualities within a single sheet caused us to be successful or not, depending upon where we cut.

Stainless steel and aluminum, however, come from China 8/10ths of the time. Also Germany, Singapore, Taiwan, etc. We don't have the capacity to supply those metals here, and it's very doubtful that we are going to anytime soon. Our costs for these went up by 30% immediately after Trump announced his tariffs.

Fortunately, our little 10-person operation packs a powerful wallop here in our corner of the nation. We are doing enough volume to get the best prices of all metals across the board, and our production manager bought close to a million dollars worth of metal right before the prices rose.
At this point, we are having trouble staying supplied with 1/2" mild steel, but we are influential enough to grab almost all of what is being produced, right off the coil.

from his email of today.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Good for your son in his 10-person operation!

Sounds like they have a canny manager.

BTW, I think he meant to say milled instead of mild. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

Best of luck to them!

[MineralMan]

2. No. Mild steel is the correct term.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel

Scroll Down

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. Thank you--I stand corrected. n/t

[Blue_true]

14. I have seen it called Magnetic Steel in my specialty field.

I was looking at some stainless parts yeaterday. The fabricated parts prices looked ok, but that likely won't be for long. A lot of the places that make the stuff I looked at were small, maybe a handful of employees at the most.

[thewhollytoast]

4. Nope, he meant mild.

Mild steel is a type of steel that is low in carbon content.

T

[calimary]

5. Learn something new every day!

[thewhollytoast]

9. My Grandfather was a toolmaker or I would not have known either.

T

[Adrahil]

6. I've worked with German steel....

I can tell you tolerances on the steel content is extremely tight. At least as good as U.S. steel, and maybe better. I cannot vouch for steel from other countries.

[NutmegYankee]

7. Have never had issues with Canadian, British, or German steel.

Now Taiwanese and Chinese - watch out! The HSLA from those countries sometimes won’t even meet an SAE/UNS grade in chemistry. They just add enough alloy metal to get the strength with crap ductility.

[gay texan]

11. Oh it's shit.

Never buy angle iron from home depot, Lowe's, or TSC. I tried welding with the stuff and it was porous as all get out. I keep scrap pieces of American and German steel around.

On the subject of Chinese crap avoid Chinese bearings like the plauge. I've had major failures of Chinese bearings in transmissions causing waaaaaay more damage than what I bargained for.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

15. I've dealt with a lot of machine and fab shops professionally

Precision machining was one of the first things to come back to the US from China. It is the old law that you can have 2 of the 3 from this list:

Speedy delivery
Low price
High quality


You could get the price and sometimes the speed from China, put the precision was not there.

[dixiegrrrrl]

23. The built the new SF-Oakland bridge with Chinese steel.

For some reason I always got creeped out driving on the "old" Oakland bridge. My BIL who lives in the area told me, after we had moved from there, that he refuses to drive on the new bridge. He is highly intelligent, so this is not him "just saying that".

sure enough, couple of years ago, problems were discovered with the construction.

[gay texan]

31. A number of years ago

I had a main bearing failure on a motorcycle due to a foreign object. I was on a really tight budget and used Chinese bearings on the crank and transmission.

I was back into it next year. Even with proper oil changes, and maintenence they failed...

[Crash2Parties]

32. Anchor rods, cables, bolts and welds are all corroding and failing & have since construction.

Oh, and corrosion on the piles supporting the foundation.

[dixiegrrrrl]

42. Aiiyyyiieee.

wonder how much the inspectors were paid?

[LiberalArkie]

8. Him talking about the steel brought to mind about the World Trade Center steel.

I always wondered if it was up to spec. No one will ever know and a lot of shitty buildings were built back then. We see new bridges and buildings falling down all over Asia from crappy steel. And the old buildings that were built with quality instead of being low cost parts still standing. Empire State and Chrysler buildings come to mind.

Every time I cross a bridge I wonder how low bid was this project?

[NutmegYankee]

10. Given the incredible damage and energy of a 500 MPH 150 ton object, I suspect it was.

And heat would weaken it like all metals. People talk about melt temperatures, but metals get very play-doh like at temperatures well below melting - it was the craft of blacksmiths for centuries since a typical forge couldn't melt steel.

[Blue_true]

16. Good points. nt

[Brother Buzz]

30. One of the skills of blacksmithing is NOT melting iron in the forge

Steel simple burns like a forth of July sparkler before it melts, but mild steel (iron) will, indeed, melt if you're not attentive. It's not a problem with big irons that take a long time to bring up to working temperatures, but it certainly is when working a bunch of tiny bars that can go from yellow to melt in the blink of an eye. Perhaps you've heard the expression, "to many irons in the fire".

[NutmegYankee]

34. Historically, Europe didn't routinely get forges melting iron until the 1500s.

And even then it was cast iron quality. Modern high quality steel in large volume had to wait till the 1850s. I was mentioning that the art of smithing iron for most of its history had to rely on heating it to soft, but couldn’t melt it. To smelt iron, the iron ore was mixed with charcoal and burned, causing the slag to melt out and form a spongy iron mass. This mass was then pounded to force the slag out.

Modern forges on the other hand...

[GulfCoast66]

12. I work very peripherally with iron workers.

And had this conversation with old guys about to retire after 911. They said back in those days American steel was the world standard. I do not think any steel could maintain its structural integrity at those temperatures.

On a different point, I have I hire welders who use SS rods to make structures. They always ask for German products.

[Blue_true]

18. What type of structures are the welders making?

A technical question if I may. I need to have valving ports (the port flanges will allow me to have liquid flow control valves installed) built into large cylindrical tanks. Nothing can be left inside, including stray melted metal from welding. I was thinking about asking the fabricator to build the valving ports, then I have the inside of the tank cleaned and electro polished. Does that route make sense to you?

[GulfCoast66]

20. Greek to me.

I really can’t say what is being fabricated as my identity would be compromised. Think artistic structures.

But your take on German Steel? You are obviously in the field not just sourcing like I am.

[Blue_true]

24. Ok about not being able to describe your structures.

My specs will call for 316 Stainless that get electro polished after the fabrication. I am set on the steel quality, it is just the fabrication instructions that I need to give that are driving me a little nuts. There can be no contamination coming from inside the completed tanks.

[GulfCoast66]

26. So where does your best steel come from?

I truly am at the mercy of my fabricators. They are good guys and seem to like German products. Until then I really did not know there was a difference. I would have expected them to dislike Chinese steel, but is American stainless steel inferior in your opinion?

I have no background in that field. My degree is in the life sciencebiology field.

I was surprised that something as simple as stainless rods would be different.

[Blue_true]

27. American and German stainless are the best.

Honestly, avoid Chinese steel if you can. If your part is expensive, you need to get it right the first time. You should ask your fabricators about where they buy their steel from, and once they tell you, demand a copy of their steel receipt manifest before they start fabricating your structures. You may be in luck in a way, a lot of fabricators are the made in America types, they may have been Union at one time in their lives.

Another point, the higher the grade of steel, the tighter the specs for it. But that doesn't say that some cheating can't happen. If you want to avoid trouble, stay with American, or German (made in Germany) steel, or Canadian made steel (that is good also). The rest, avoid if possible.

[GulfCoast66]

36. Thanks.

The welders do say that the better the stainless the harder it is to weld. But they prefer the best product. And again, I do not personally know. Have not welded since shop class 35 years ago!

[Blue_true]

39. High grade stainless is harder to weld, from what I understand.

You think steel is bad, don't get into Aluminum, even a grade of Aluminum can have several variants and for some jobs, you have to choose the exact right one. Really good, experienced fabricators have seen it all, it is always worth having a conversation with them.

[GulfCoast66]

40. The products they produce are stellar

And they are Union workers which is rare in Florida.

I trust them.

[Blue_true]

41. They should not have an issue with telling you where they buy steel from.

Which country. Like I wrote earlier, a lot of fabricators value built in the USA, and them being a Union shop when they don't have to be says a lot of good things about them, IMO.

[IronLionZion]

28. WTC used 12 different grades of steel

https://science.howstuffworks.com/engineering/structural/grade-of-steel-used-in-world-trade-center.htm

A google search brings up several sources of info about it's construction

https://amhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=34

[OnlinePoker]

29. And the Canadian firm that supplied much of the new WTC exterior has to lay off people

Canadian company that helped build new World Trade Centre hurt by Trump's steel tariffs

Donald Trump's tariffs on steel are hurting a Canadian company that played an instrumental role in building an iconic symbol of American perseverance in U.S. President Donald Trump's home city.

ADF Group, a Quebec-based steel producer which constructed a significant portion of the new World Trade Centre, has already laid off 50 workers because of the escalating trade dispute.

"We feel kinda flustered, and we feel betrayed by that," said plant manager James Paschini.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/adf-group-caught-in-escalating-trade-war-1.4733035

[Alternative Facts]

13. American beer keg company might not survive due to tariffs and imported kegs.

CZACHOR: When you look at a stainless steel keg that we make, it's all domestic steel, so we purchase all the steel here in the U.S. Once those tariffs were discussed and then implemented here, our pricing for the domestic steel started to go up. And the difference between an import keg and an American-made keg is greater than it was, say, four months ago or five months ago.

MCCAMMON: Czachor explains that at the moment, there are no tariffs on imported kegs, but because there's a tariff on steel, the kegs his company makes cost about $20 more than the ones that come in from China.

CZACHOR: There's only so much that a customer is willing to pay to buy an American-made keg. So we have a lot of patriotic customers, but as that price difference continues to increase, we lose sales. And as a result of losing sales, we had to reduce some of our workforce.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/24/596744980/trumps-tariffs-lead-to-layoffs-at-steel-beer-keg-company

[elmac]

17. China plays us like a cheap piano

China outsmarts us when it comes to economics because of the dummies running things here. All they need to do is devalue their currency to offset any tariffs. We cannot do the same. They own us, along with many other countries.

[FakeNoose]

21. As for China, I don't think they really understand how inferior their products are

They just don't care as long as (stupid greedy) Americans will buy them. So the question is, why are we buying their cheap inferior products anyway? The decision makers in this country have been putting profits ahead of quality for many years now, that's why. Pretty soon nobody is going to even understand the quality/value continuum, it's all going to be about price and nothing else.

[Blue_true]

25. It is already about price unless a person is buying something prices at over $7,000.

When I look at small commodity parts, the US manufacturers are long gone. There are a few holdouts once the price of a part goes above a certain price.

But, you're right. Anyone that is forced to buy parts made in China had better pay attention, if part quality is important.

[Blue_true]

22. Yeah, but it is about going back to a country that never really existed.

Trump supporters may get their wish, they will go back to the 19th century. Advanced states would have likely decamped well before that.

[roamer65]

38. They can devalue RMB a bit, but not by the 30 percent.

It would stoke rampant inflation in China if they did devalue that much.

If I were China, I would devote the excess steel to war production. That is what the United States has done for a long time.

[SWBTATTReg]

19. Thanks for tutorial on steel...I never realized such variances in steel products from country to ...

country. Appreciate it very much!

[Hugin]

33. The US has very few small domestic sources of Bauxite ore...

The stuff from which Aluminum is extracted.

That's why aluminum is considered a strategic metal.

Which is why it was incredibly stupid to put a tariff on it. You put tariffs on things your country has an abundance of and everyone else needs.

Well, that is unless one of your buddies happens to be a Russian Oligarch with an aluminum processing interest... And, he's probably giving you
personally a kick back. But, I digress.

WE.IMPORT.VIRTUALLY.ALL.OF.OUR.ALUMINUM! WE.DON'T.HAVE.IT.HERE!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

35. K & R

[roamer65]

37. It's going to start killing jobs worldwide very quickly.

1. Projects here in the US will either be delayed until the tariff is removed or they will be cancelled outright.

2. Orders in the producing countries for shipment to the US have already fallen off a cliff, therefore jobs will be killed there as well.