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question everything

(47,444 posts)
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 03:40 PM Jul 2018

Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

Recently IRS officials have provided new details on the enforcement of a law Congress passed in late 2015. It requires the IRS and State Department to deny passports or revoke them for taxpayers who have more than $51,000 of overdue tax debt. Enforcement began in February.

An IRS spokesman says that 362,000 people are current tax debtors who are affected by the law. The IRS is sending their names in batches to the State Department, a process the tax agency aims to finish by year’s end. A State Department spokesman confirmed that it has already denied passports to some debtors.

IRS Division Commissioner Mary Beth Murphy said in late June that for now U.S. authorities are denying passports rather than revoking them. So, many tax debtors with current passports should be able to travel abroad, but they won’t be able to renew their passports; those without passports will be denied them if they apply.

The new enforcement is having an effect: Ms. Murphy said that one tax debtor paid $1 million to avoid passport denial. As of late June, 220 people had handed over $11.5 million to pay their debts in full, and 1,400 others had signed installment agreements, according to an IRS spokesman.

National Taxpayer Advocate Nina Olson is critical of some of the new procedures, however. One objection is that the IRS notifies a tax debtor at roughly the same time it tells the State Department that someone qualifies for passport denial. This may not leave enough time to resolve tax issues and have the IRS and the State Department lift restrictions, she said.

Instead, Ms. Olson would like the IRS to warn debtors 30 days before the agency sends their names to the State Department. She said this is similar to what the Department of Health and Human Services requires before someone is denied a passport because of $2,500 or more in unpaid child support.

More..

https://www.wsj.com/articles/thousands-of-americans-will-be-denied-a-passport-because-of-unpaid-taxes-1530869401 (paid subscription)

45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes (Original Post) question everything Jul 2018 OP
I don't have a problem with it beachbum bob Jul 2018 #1
Same here Sherman A1 Jul 2018 #3
Yup, pay your fair share or get fucked Amishman Jul 2018 #19
Yes. Can you imagine being able to come with a million on such a short notice.. question everything Jul 2018 #6
You should have a problem with it. bitterross Jul 2018 #10
Called responsibility.... beachbum bob Jul 2018 #22
You have an odd notion of due process FBaggins Jul 2018 #30
Me either. beaglelover Jul 2018 #21
"Governments lie" sometimes, it will be used "by mistake" as an excuse to control. lostnfound Jul 2018 #25
occassional error doesn't mean anything in the big picture, I have no problem with IRS seizing beachbum bob Jul 2018 #26
The law states govt will fix errors "as soon as practicable" lostnfound Jul 2018 #31
I don't have a problem Soxfan58 Jul 2018 #27
It's naive to think this can't be used for political purposes by Trump administration lostnfound Jul 2018 #32
Maybe Pres Obama shouldn't have signed this law dumbcat Jul 2018 #42
I guess Trump countingbluecars Jul 2018 #2
Now that is funny. NT phylny Jul 2018 #4
Great idea. Depends when his passport expires, though. question everything Jul 2018 #5
LOL malaise Jul 2018 #7
They're methodically building up the walls to keep U.S. citizens in. hunter Jul 2018 #8
This law was passed when Obama was president. former9thward Jul 2018 #17
Ahah! It was one of those right wing gotchas! hunter Jul 2018 #20
Section 32101 of 400 page highway bill passed by Republican congress nt lostnfound Jul 2018 #28
And signed into law by President Obama. former9thward Jul 2018 #37
So what. He wasn't going to shoot down a 480 page transportation bill over one provision. lostnfound Jul 2018 #39
A president has full responsibility for any law they sign. former9thward Jul 2018 #41
You blame Obama, I blame GOP Congress for it. lostnfound Jul 2018 #44
Why would I blame Obama for something I support? former9thward Jul 2018 #45
Exactly. People with $50K+ of tax debt are unsympathetic, so start with them. Girard442 Jul 2018 #9
If you want to go further DBoon Jul 2018 #11
And make it known that applying for a passport will put your life under a microscope. Girard442 Jul 2018 #15
Didn't Stalin severely persecute folks for "cosmopolitanism"? DBoon Jul 2018 #16
Law says, government errors will be corrected "as soon as practicable" lostnfound Jul 2018 #29
If King for a day... pecosbob Jul 2018 #12
This is a terrible idea. bitterross Jul 2018 #13
There are exemptions question everything Jul 2018 #14
Tell me again who The Wall is supposed to confine? To me, it has always felt like us ... Hekate Jul 2018 #18
I do not have a problem with it GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #23
Page 418 of 480 page bill. GOP Congress. Obama had to pick his battles carefully. lostnfound Jul 2018 #34
Not a fan. Panama has a similar concept that I never liked either... stevenleser Jul 2018 #24
This was a law signed by President Obama... brooklynite Jul 2018 #33
Section 32101 of a 480 page Transportation bill. GOP.Congress. lostnfound Jul 2018 #35
...and signed by President Obama brooklynite Jul 2018 #36
Saying he had to pick his battles! Duh, no line item veto. lostnfound Jul 2018 #38
Are you aware of any actual evidence that Obama opposed this provision? brooklynite Jul 2018 #40
Good Owl Jul 2018 #43
 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
10. You should have a problem with it.
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:52 PM
Jul 2018

Where is the due process in this? They are denying people the right to enter and exit the country freely. What if your employment depends upon having a valid passport and you have contested debt with the IRS? How are you going to pay your debt if you've been fired.

This is just as bad as taking away people's driver's licenses for unpaid court fines.

This is not a good thing.

FBaggins

(26,721 posts)
30. You have an odd notion of due process
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 08:10 AM
Jul 2018

Only people identified as “seriously delinquent” are involved. That doesn’t just mean that they owe more than the reported $51k, but also that a tax lien has been filed (which already involves due process) AND that the time period for appeal has passed. Or that they have advanced far enough in the process that a levy has been issued.

And if you’ve appealed any of the prior steps, they can’t withhold the passport.

No shortage of due process. There could be no excuse for this catching you by surprise.

lostnfound

(16,162 posts)
25. "Governments lie" sometimes, it will be used "by mistake" as an excuse to control.
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 07:03 AM
Jul 2018

I personally got a letter saying my passport could be revoked due to $57 in “unpaid taxes” as I am a trustee. An accountant handled the taxes this year for me and they were paid in full on April 15th. Neither of us know the reason for the $57.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
26. occassional error doesn't mean anything in the big picture, I have no problem with IRS seizing
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 07:10 AM
Jul 2018

people's tax refunds for non-payment of student loans, child support.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
42. Maybe Pres Obama shouldn't have signed this law
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 09:56 AM
Jul 2018

giving the Trump administration this power. He should have known it could be misused.

hunter

(38,304 posts)
8. They're methodically building up the walls to keep U.S. citizens in.
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:18 PM
Jul 2018

They've got to start somewhere. Nobody likes mediocre tax cheats; only the skilled tax cheats and tax loophole spelunkers are celebrated in our society.

Maybe Trump and the Republicans are looking to Russia and North Korea for advice on holding populations captive.

Pumping up xenophobia makes a large numbers of U.S. Americans keep themselves at home, no walls required. For example, I sometimes meet people who who say they would NEVER visit Mexico, hell, they won't even visit the Mexican market neighborhoods of my own community. They believe Canada is an arctic wasteland, some hellish version of Alaska where you have to wait two years to see a doctor.

Whipping up anti-immigrant frenzy allows the kleptocrats to build the physical walls that will later confine us when the U.S. becomes a police state and the economy turns fully anaerobic and most of us essentially slaves.







hunter

(38,304 posts)
20. Ahah! It was one of those right wing gotchas!
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 06:55 PM
Jul 2018

Thankfully I protected myself with a tinfoil hat emoji or my DU reputation would be ruined.

lostnfound

(16,162 posts)
39. So what. He wasn't going to shoot down a 480 page transportation bill over one provision.
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 09:28 AM
Jul 2018

And he may have assumed there’d be the “rule of law” enduring, as opposed to this ignorant tyrant.

former9thward

(31,949 posts)
41. A president has full responsibility for any law they sign.
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 09:38 AM
Jul 2018

Just as Congress does. If a President has disagreements with a particular section of a law he can issue a signing statement and President Obama issued many of those. A signing statement does not change the law but is a statement showing the president disagrees with a particular section but is signing based on the overall law.

lostnfound

(16,162 posts)
44. You blame Obama, I blame GOP Congress for it.
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 10:04 AM
Jul 2018

Obama’s statement was “this bill is not perfect” and maybe he would have had more to say but he signed it two days after the San Bernardino shooting, “just hours to spare before the scheduled expiration of the nation's road and transit spending”.

Here’s his statement
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=111222&st=&st1=

I just love it when people blame Obama for everything the GOP Congress that voters gave him to work with for most of his presidency.

former9thward

(31,949 posts)
45. Why would I blame Obama for something I support?
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 10:10 AM
Jul 2018

I don't think tax cheats should be allowed a government service like a passport. I don't think they should be allowed to flee the country while owing taxes. If they can afford to travel to different countries they can pay their taxes. `

Girard442

(6,066 posts)
9. Exactly. People with $50K+ of tax debt are unsympathetic, so start with them.
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:36 PM
Jul 2018

Later, dial down the amount to anything over $100. Then people with outstanding warrants. Then anyone with any pending legal action. Then start arresting people willy-nilly at protests, so they can't leave with a legal action pending. And so on.

Pretty soon, only Party Members in good standing will be able to travel abroad.

DBoon

(22,340 posts)
11. If you want to go further
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:57 PM
Jul 2018

How hard would it be to deliberately charge your political opponents with tax evasion simply to persecute them for being an opponent?

It is much easier to manufacture this offense than say murder which requires an actual body.

The tax code is arcane enough that anyone who fills out a 1040 and has deductions could be charged.

Girard442

(6,066 posts)
15. And make it known that applying for a passport will put your life under a microscope.
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 06:01 PM
Jul 2018

After all, those folks who want to leave this fine country are probably up to something, right?

DBoon

(22,340 posts)
16. Didn't Stalin severely persecute folks for "cosmopolitanism"?
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 06:15 PM
Jul 2018

Which consisted of any contact with the non-Soviet world?

lostnfound

(16,162 posts)
29. Law says, government errors will be corrected "as soon as practicable"
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 08:08 AM
Jul 2018

“Oops. Somehow our lists got mixed up...We will fix it...as soon as practicable.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
13. This is a terrible idea.
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:59 PM
Jul 2018

Do you know how easy it is to get to that much debt with the IRS? You loose your home and the bank writes off the debt. Boom, you get a 1099-C for the write-off and now you owe taxes on money you never had for a home you got in the boom. Then, they add penalties and fees. And keep adding interest.

Where is the due process in this? They are denying people the right to enter and exit the country freely. What if your employment depends upon having a valid passport and you have contested debt with the IRS? How are you going to pay your debt if you've been fired.

This is just as bad as taking away people's driver's licenses for unpaid court fines.

This is not a good thing.

question everything

(47,444 posts)
14. There are exemptions
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:07 PM
Jul 2018

From the above, perhaps I should have included in the OP:

Taxpayers typically aren’t subject to passport restrictions if they’re contesting an assessment administratively or in court, or if they have pending or current installment-payment agreements or offers-in-compromise with the IRS.

Also excluded are many taxpayers who are victims of identity theft; have requested “innocent-spouse” relief; have debts in “not-collectible” hardship status; are in bankruptcy; are in a federally declared disaster area; or are serving in a combat zone.

In addition, the State Department can issue a passport for emergencies or humanitarian reasons. A department spokesman said it does so to make sure an American citizen overseas can return to the U.S.

=====

Per your concerns: if someone is in such dire circumstances, that person probably cannot afford traveling abroad, anyway.

Hekate

(90,565 posts)
18. Tell me again who The Wall is supposed to confine? To me, it has always felt like us ...
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 06:27 PM
Jul 2018

Just cut us off from the rest of the world physically, psychologically, and legally. MAGA.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
24. Not a fan. Panama has a similar concept that I never liked either...
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 10:55 PM
Jul 2018

when you exit the country in Panama, you have to pass through a checkpoint where, if you are a citizen, they verify you have no outstanding tax debt or owe any fines to the country. If you do, you are denied entry to the secure part of the airport. It's right before you get to go through the metal detectors. I always remarked how awful I thought that was.

If Obama did this, he was wrong.

brooklynite

(94,384 posts)
36. ...and signed by President Obama
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 09:07 AM
Jul 2018

Are you suggesting that he was too ignorant to know what was in the Bill?

lostnfound

(16,162 posts)
38. Saying he had to pick his battles! Duh, no line item veto.
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 09:26 AM
Jul 2018

Obama did no wrong, by my count, on anything. In 8 years. Though, if he had to blow up trump tower to stop trump from becoming president..maybe would have been a better outcome.

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