Beware of Republicans in Democratic Clothing

[MineralMan]

There are a few folks running for office in 2018 who have "left" the Republican Party and are now running as democrats. I advise thinking twice before giving your vote to such people. Long-time Republicans may have switched parties due to Trump, but their mindsets are still what they are.

The best example I can think of is Richard Painter, who will be running in the primary for Al Franken's old Minnesota Senate seat. He'll be running against Tina Smith, who was appointed to finish out Franken's term. Painter has criticized Trump vehemently on the media for some time, and often appeared on MSNBC's programming, doing just that. Tina Smith, a long-time Democrat, is just now beginning to gain public notice.

Celebrity has little or nothing to do with political positions held by such celebrities. That Painter criticized Trump does not make him a good choice for the Senate, in itself. That's not enough. Nobody is asking for his views on crucial policy matters, and that's where the problem is. He is a long-time Republican. His opposition to Trump does not change that.

Please exercise caution in endorsing such turncoat Republicans for elected offices. Such people are very likely to disappoint once they are elected and revert back to their long-held views on important issues and principles.

[RKP5637]

1. Well said!!!!! n/t

[pnwmom]

56. Elizabeth Warren is a former Republican. Looks like she's done pretty well for the party. n/t

[RKP5637]

60. Wow, I had no idea! Thanks!

[pnwmom]

61. "Why Elizabeth Warren left the GOP"

https://thinkprogress.org/why-elizabeth-warren-left-the-gop-e78680711424/

[RKP5637]

63. Thanks for sharing this with me! I just had absolutely no idea. This link was exceptionally

interesting! Thanks!!!

[pnwmom]

65. You're welcome. As a Catholic, I've often heard the theory that converts

are more fervent in their beliefs than people "born" into the religion.

I suspect that might be true of certain political converts, too, like Elizabeth Warren.

[mitch96]

67. A wolf is still a wolf

It's in his nature...
m

[RKP5637]

69. Yep, it's best to exercise caution. Of course the GOP has changed so much, some likely want nothing

to do with it.

[mitch96]

73. The only thing I can think of for a Republican to go Dem is

That the democratic point of view is more aligned with the republicans they "use to" be..
I still don't trust 'em.. As Rachel says "see what they do and not what they say"...

m

[Fullduplexxx]

2. No one should ever vote for an ex-con until you see some kind of voting record from them

[karynnj]

5. Painter was never in elected office - so there is no voting record.

Here is a link to his bio - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Painter

He was a lifelong Republican and his career does not offer many clues as to his positions on most issues.

[MineralMan]

6. For Painter, there is no voting record.

He was a bureaucrat, not an elected official.

[karynnj]

3. Well said - and the key as you suggest is asking views on policies

Painter aside, because I do not know his position on most issues, though there were Republicans who were moderate or even liberal in the 1960s or 1970s, the party shifted right several times - with Reagan, with Gingrich, with the tea party and then with Trump and possibly other shifts I don't remember. With each of these shifts, some Republicans found they were not in line with their party and they left.

Two who did while in office were Jeffords of Vermont in 2001 and Specter of PA in 2009. Lincoln Chaffee is another example who changed after he lost his Senate seat but before he ran for Governor. Consider that these shifts predate the tea party and Trump shifts. Anyone shifting now needs to explain why they did not publicly leave when the official Senate position of the Republican party was to stop Obama on everything or when the tea party pushed many of the more moderate Republicans out. This is not the Republican party that included people like Jacob Javitts, John Heinz, and Lincoln Chaffee. In 2004, one of John Heinz's sons spoke of his being a Democrat because the party had changed, not just because his step father was running.

The two parties are very polarized on policies. The fact that the Republican party was taken over first by extremists and then by Trump, has left some people with no party that they can truly be comfortable with. That does not make them a Democrat - even if they are more comfortable with us then them. If they were VOTERS, this would be great and we should welcome them. However, these are candidates and if they win in any significant number, they broaden the range of our party. While someone willing to align with us, with positions to the right of Joe Manchin, would be useful in a state where we otherwise can not be competitive, clearly, it makes no sense in a state where we can elect a person with policy views that are clearly "Democratic".

Minnesota is such a state. The danger is that Painter's prominence as a Trump critic could well make him the better known candidate and his Trump criticisms might be better known than his policy views.

[MineralMan]

7. Painter has many fans in Minnesota, and they're talking him up.

If asked, the only thing they can answer with is his criticism of Trump. Nobody knows his positions on anything else. It's very frustrating. Tina Smith IS a Democrat, and always has been. She's with us on the issues. We must not let Republicans steal our party, and they're trying to do just that.

Painter is an ethics specialist. He teaches at the University of Minnesota. He dislikes Trump on ethical grounds, but has said little about important issues that will face the Senator from Minnesota.

I support Tina Smith in the primary.

[karynnj]

14. Good luck to Tina Smith

It is frustrating as there are many people who have almost made a hero out of Painter for is willingness to say what almost all Democrats believe - that the Trump administartion is incredibly corrupt. (Trump or Pruitt alone each have more genuine conflicts of interest and scandals than entire administrations.) The left has always lionized people seen as speaking out -- often not looking at their entire record. Two I can think of are Anthony Weiner, who remade himself into an antiwar leftist and Alan Grayson. They were always Democrats, but their national recognition and popularity was far more than their records deserved.

I hope that there are some primary debates that will force them to speak of the various issues. Tina Smith may have to make some very strong statement about Trump's ethics etc -- pointing out that there is no daylight between them on that issue. If successful, it could move the contest to differences on other issues.

[spooky3]

27. I followed him on Twitter for awhile. He tweeted

a lot about environmental issues now facing MN.

[beachbum bob]

4. I don't think Painter has chance in the first place BUT adding any and all "former" republicans

to our team is a WIN

[MineralMan]

8. Actually, he does have a chance in the primary.

Electing long-time Republicans who have recently "switched" parties is a bad, bad idea. We don't know them.

[pazzyanne]

28. I agree with MineralMan.

As a Minnesota voter, I emphatically stated early on that I would never vote for a Republican in this political climate. Voting for Painter opens Minnesota to the Republican party because he is a celebrity of sort. I don't trust him to be a DFL candidate in any way, manner, or form. His claim to fame is that he hates tRump. Good for him, but still not a good reason to give him a Democratic position in the US Senate. Let him run as an Independent if he feels he wants to run. He can then decide who he caucuses with if he wins. In that scenario, we will see his true colors. A vote for Painter is risky and I am not willing to gamble with Minnesota's political future. Especially since this is the position that the Democrats took away from Minnesota without checking with voters in Minnesota.

[NCTraveler]

9. Tina Smith!

“Do not underestimate me. I believe that as a woman, a progressive, and a Minnesotan, I have a lot to contribute and I am so ready to do that work.” Tina Smith

Link to tweet

You are obviously spot on about people like Painter. Others are even more nefarious.

[Trumpocalypse]

10. Elizabeth Warren was a Republican for most of her adult life.

Should we be wary of her too?

[MineralMan]

12. She has had time to demonstrate her positions.

However, before that, yes, being skeptical was a good choice.

[xmas74]

11. Here's the question:

Do we have him publicly stating he will support a Democrat in the GE? Will he help campaign for the Democratic candidate even if it's not him?

I think Smith will be the candidate in the GE. I'd just like to see how far Painter will go to support the party in case of future runs.

[MineralMan]

13. Not directly. Not that I know of.

I'm glad he is an ethical person. However, I do not know his positions on issues. Being opposed to Trump is not enough for me.

[xmas74]

38. Same.

Maybe that's a question some of the voters should ask him. Someone should ask if he'd be willing to campaign for the party, win or lose, and be a voice of the party. If he says yes he might be someone to follow in the future.

If Smith wins the primary and he goes on the trail for her he should be considered part of the party. If not then he does not deserve future support.

[kimbutgar]

15. While I appreciate mr painter's criticism of twitler he is still a repuke

And it would a disgrace if he takes the great honorable Senator Frankenstein’s seat that was bs he quit.

[MineralMan]

17. Exactly. We need progressive Democrats to win elections,

not unknown quantities. Let Painter run for some lesser office and show his actual beliefs. Not the US Senate. Not now.

[geardaddy]

16. Thank you!

Every time I see a post about Richard Painter and how great he is I get frustrated. My vote is for Tina Smith.

[MineralMan]

18. The primary is coming right up.

My vote is for Tina, too.

[geardaddy]

19. I'm in CD-5 and we have a lively primary for Keith's old seat.

One guy (Frank Drake) actually ran against him in the last election and is now running as a DFLer. That galls me to no end!

[MineralMan]

23. Hmph!

[griloco]

20. BEWARE the Civil Serpent!!!

nt

[Enoki33]

21. Agree criticisms of tRump by Painter are not enough. His issues position are

an unknown. It is also possible he is running as a Dem to send a message to the Republican Party.

[dem in texas]

22. Texas has had its share of turn-coats

#1 -The lousy, greedy. self-serving, snake in the grass, former senator, Phil Graham.

[zipplewrath]

30. Well in his defense

Sorta I mean. If you are going to switch parties, ya probably ought to do it the way he did. He got in trouble for acting like a republican while being a democrat. They removed him from his committee position. So he quit, and then ran as a republican, and won his seat back. At the end of the day he wasn't so much a "turn coat" as he was someone who finally "came out of the closet" as a republican.

[zipplewrath]

44. Big Shift

There was a big shift between the two parties, starting about the time of Teddy Roosevelt and ending around the time of LBJ where the GOP became the conservative, white peoples party and the democrats became the liberal inclusive party. It took some time for the south to recognize the change. It's complete now. And may soon be their downfall.

[zipplewrath]

47. Same with my sister

She went to school there and worked for about 5 years. Had enough of it. Said that Texans don't understand there is some place other than Texas.

[slumcamper]

24. Always enjoy your thoughtful posts, MM.

Agree 100%.

You're speaking to the choir. This message needs to be posted on whatever site political "middlings" inhabit.

If such a place exists, where is it? If anyone knows, please tell. We should be invading it.

[Caliman73]

25. I agree. It is VERY EASY to be against Trump.

It is another thing to support the positions, at least the vast majority of the positions in the Democratic Party platform. We are a large tent party with people who are Democratic Socialists to people like Manchin who vote with the Democrats 80% of the time. It is important for people to do their homework on a candidate. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and while their are certainly people who genuinely shift their policies, like Elizabeth Warren (who has the voting record to prove it), there are people who for want of a better vehicle, will switch parties merely to attain office.

Bottom line is, especially for people who have held office before: CHECK THEIR VOTING RECORD or their record for promoting legislation.

We need to remember the example of Steve Schmidt, who denounced Trump and the Republican party, but then just days later was trying to stoke controversy regarding Ocasio-Cortez and the Democratic Party, and pushing other conservative themes. People were so happy that a higher profile Republican had denounced and left the party, but he just brought his conservatism to the Democratic side and is trying to work that in.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

[Caliman73]

48. Guys like Manchin have their place, but are in no way the future of the party.

Politics is typically local so if there is a conservative element in a state or a district, but the general consensus is that the government has a role in protecting minorities and vulnerable people, then there is a space for Democratic politics in that area. That more than anything distinguishes the Democratic and Republican parties. Republicans believe that government should be used to favor the status quo, to regulate the lives of the poor and middle class, and to protect business interests.

Democrats are a big tent and we accept people like Heitkamp, Manchin, and Tester because they are from more conservative states but they vote with Democratic policies. The future of the Democratic party is always progress but we will take more conservative Democrats along with us.

[Caliman73]

51. No one is saying they should be ignored.

Mineral Man is merely saying that if there is an actual Democrat who has been and voted for Democratic Policies running against a Republican who has shifted allegiance recently, then it is better to vote for the actual Democrat.

Manchin is more conservative, and has split with the Party on some issues, but he has ALWAYS been a Democrat. Where the population is more conservative and there is a choice between a conservative Democrat and a Republican, Go for the Democrat. In a place that is moderate and there is a Democrat running against a Republican turned Democrat, go for the real Democrat.

[Caliman73]

66. Ooh, did I unearth a troll?

There was something funny about our friend there, but I wanted to engage him on the issues. Like most trolls they can't maintain for long because they have no substance to discuss.

[Maggiemayhem]

26. See Joe Manchin D WV

Consistently votes with Rs....but we have no choice as his opponent is even worse

[niyad]

29. k and r. I don't trust anyone who used to have an "r" after his/her name.

[zipplewrath]

31. Careful

The list is long and includes some fairly prominent democrats. At the very least you might have to make allowances for folks who were "raised" republican and took a bit to see the light.

[niyad]

32. I was mostly thinking politicians and their voting records.

[TeamPooka]

35. you were right the first time.

[zipplewrath]

40. Specter

Probably like Arlen Specter.

[xmas74]

41. I didn't always like him

But Koster usually did what he could for the people of Missouri. He left the GOP during the Bush administration, ran as a Democrat and became a two term MO AG.

[pnwmom]

68. Then you don't trust Elizabeth Warren. nt

[niyad]

74. I appreciate the link to the thinkprogess article you provided.

people can change, obviously. and current actions and speech are important. I fon't trust convenient conversions--ike the pol (forget where) who changed from "r" to "d" to run for office, and, once elected, promptly turned "r" again.

heck, I didn't even trust kucinich's change of heart on abortion, right before he decided to run for president.

[Mc Mike]

33. 'Li'l bush's ethics czar' is not much of a credential.

Last edited Fri Jul 13, 2018, 03:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Go, Tina!

[marieo1]

34. minngal

Thank you, Mineralman, please keep us informed of any other reps changing and becoming Democrats. Deep down reps will never change their core beliefs!!

[karin_sj]

36. The Democrats were so short-sighted

Instead of standing behind Al Franken and giving him the investigation he asked for in order to clear himself, they all lined up against him to push him out of office. And now, we'll probably end up with a republican in his place. I like watching Richard Painter on TV lambasting Trump, but we really need a Democrat in that seat.

I'm so angry that we're even in this position. The republicans stand behind their representatives, even when they know they are guilty. Our Democratic leaders didn't even give Franken a chance to defend himself. For pity's sake, he would have been in office for two more years and now we might lose that seat in 2018, when we desperately need to hang onto it, due to their rush to judgement and punishment.

[MineralMan]

37. I agree about Al Franken.

I thought that was a terrible decision made by Democratic leaders.

[Trumpocalypse]

55. Franken could have fought back

He should never have apologized. And no one put a gun to his head to force him to resign. In the end that was his decision. He could have refused and demanded that the ethics investigation be concluded.

[Music Man]

42. Amen

I am glad Richard Painter is anti-Trump, but that alone does not a Democrat make. It's just too stunning a turnaround to trust him to take the seat of one of the most beloved, true progressives of all time in Al Franken.

As late as March of this year, Painter was "unsure" if he would run as a Republican, Democrat, or independent. He's done this as a matter of convenience.

I am happy to welcome Richard Painter into the fold, and we should be gracious if he's truly had an epiphany about the wrongness of the Republican Party. Hell, even Elizabeth Warren was a registered Republican through the '90s. Changes of heart happen. But he has to prove his bona fides if he is going to get a seat at the table.

I sure miss Al Franken, and I am grateful to anti-Trump Republicans, but Tina Smith deserves our support. I suspect Minnesota Democrats will get this right.

[Orsino]

49. Convicted felons may take years to win back their right to vote.

I don't see why Republicans should have it any easier in running for office.

[Wounded Bear]

52. Important PSA!

It's like a lot of "independents" I've encountered. They say they have no affiliation with either party, but when I actually discuss issues with them, their conservative/Republican roots come out.

Vote True Blue this fall!

[Hekate]

54. Spot on

[Gothmog]

57. I support Tina Smith over a pretend Democrat like Painter

[MineralMan]

59. I deal with reality.

Last edited Thu Jul 12, 2018, 04:24 PM - Edit history (1)

And the reality is that a Democrat or a Republican is the winner for almost every office.

I can see that you recognize my concern. I have many concerns. I've been expressing them here for a very long time.

On edit: Buh-Bye...

[pnwmom]

62. I respect him for choosing to run as a Democrat, rather than as an Independent

which could throw the election to the Republican.

And from what I've seen, he's a typical "convert" -- more serious in his progressive views than many "born" into the party.

For example, he supports single payer healthcare, women's right to choose, and began working in 2011 for an Amendment to the state constitution permitting same sex marriage. He says our environment is in an "existential crisis," he supports higher taxes on millionaires and billionaires, and he supports strong anti-corruption laws.

https://www.painterminnesota.com/health_care

How do you avoid having health-care issues interfere with the ability to start businesses?

The answer is single-payer health care. Richard supports the passage of Bernie Sanders’ Medicare for All bill (or whichever single-payer bill is on the table). This bill would decrease the price of health care while ensuring that every American has access to the care they need.

https://www.painterminnesota.com/womens_health

Richard is a firm supporter of a woman’s unabridged right to control her own body. That right should never be impeded or its exercise hindered. A woman’s right to her body includes the right to access available and convenient sexual health resources such as Planned Parenthood, the right to seek and use birth control, and the right to terminate a pregnancy. Richard will be unfailing in his defense of this right.

https://www.painterminnesota.com/lgbtq_rights

Richard has always been a staunch supporter of gay marriage. In 2011, Richard began working with Wheelock Whitney and other leaders in Minnesota to organize opposition to the “Marriage Amendment” which would have put marriage discrimination into the Minnesota State Constitution. He later testified before both houses of the Minnesota Congress to advocate for a statute legalizing same-sex marriage in Minnesota.

In 2014, Richard signed an amicus brief for the plaintiff filed with the United States Supreme Court in Obergefell v. Hodges, the case that subsequently legalized same-sex marriage nationwide.

https://www.painterminnesota.com/environment

The state of our environment is in an existential crisis. Climate change threatens our food supply, our sources of clean water, and our very ability to live on this planet. We have already seen some of its disastrous consequences, but those promise to be just the beginning. Some scientists believe we have reached a point of no return for the environment. Many politicians (at least those who do not deny climate change outright) have taken this as an invitation to abandon any commitment they once had to preserving the state of the Earth. Richard will not go so gentle into that dark night. In the Senate, Richard will work tirelessly to ensure that Minnesotans and citizens across the country will be able to enjoy the beauty and majesty of our lands for generations to come.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/05/25/meet-richard-painter-the-anti-trump-former-republican-running-for-senate-as-a-democrat/?utm_term=.e76e43b01069

Running as an independent poses significant risk of throwing this election. I was not willing to take that risk with Donald Trump in the White House of throwing a Senate race to the Republican candidate, who has made very clear she supports Donald Trump from soup to nuts.

I'm certainly a lot more aggressive about my position on Donald Trump and Vice President Pence than Senator Smith is.

But it goes beyond Trump. We need to clean out corruption in Washington through our campaign finance system. I will not take PAC money. I don't think members of Congress should be able to hold stock. I think a lot of moderates and conservatives can be persuaded to support single-payer health care.

SNIP

I think we've reached a point where we are well beyond [President Richard Nixon's near impeachment] with respect to evidence of bribery, treason, collusion with Russians and also high crimes and misdemeanors. We have serious concerns in all three categories.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

75. He sounds great on the issues.

[pnwmom]

77. In view of his positions, I'd support either one of them -- whoever is the D nominee. nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

78. I'm from Illinois so I don't have to worry about it.

I still lean toward people who have been liberal their whole lives.

[pnwmom]

79. Like Elizabeth Warren, right?

just kidding

She's one of those converts.

[KCDebbie]

64. Great post!

We should all be mindful that the Joe Scarboroughs and Steve Schmidt's and Bill Kristols can't wait to embrace the next un-Trump-like Republican leader!

[Jim Lane]

70. I wish the national party committees would take your point to heart.

At the DCCC and the DSCC, there seems to be a marked preference for backing former Republicans.

I think the reasoning goes something like this: All voters and all candidates can be situated neatly on a single left-to-right ideological spectrum; all voters make their decisions by looking at that spectrum and seeing which major-party candidate is closer to the voter; therefore, we can win by picking someone as far to the right as possible, as long as our candidate is a little bit left of the Republican. From this perspective, former Republicans are ideal Democratic nominees.

The party committees have a long history of backing people like Patrick Murphy, a former Republican who was therefore more electable, except of course that he didn't get elected. Would Alan Grayson have beaten Marco Rubio? I don't know, but at least he would have given the Democratic base more of a reason to turn out. That's on top of the factor you mention, namely what the person would do if elected.

[ecstatic]

71. I agree. While it's great that he and other GOPers are speaking out,

they should NOT be rewarded with democratic seats unless there's absolutely no other option.

[OilemFirchen]

72. Both Donald Trump and Mike Pence are former Democrats.

As were a slew of Reagan-era converts, including the bulk of the neoconservatives (and, of course, Reagan himself).

I'm pretty sure that the Republican Party would find your caution humorous. Probably quite encouraging as well.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

76. I like what Painter has to say about Trump, and lately he's claiming some Dem positions, but

I remain skeptical because up until pretty recently he's ardently proclaimed his life-long Republican allegiance in TV interviews, and has lamented about how congressional GOPers have abandoned their traditional Republican principles in order to support Trump. Did he sincerely but suddenly do an ideological 180? I appreciate his fervor but I hope, and assume, he will enthusiastically support Tina Smith if he doesn't win the primary.

[Raine]

80. Yes best to keep in mind many of these

are simply Trump haters but at heart they're still Republicans.