Is it time to attack Russia/Soviet Union? What are the equities of such a thing?

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

They've attacked us. When are we going to respond...or are we chicken?
I'm not talking ground troops...I'm talking infrastructure...electricity...Trans Continental communications...Computers ....an attack almost like they did here...only much better.
It's not the Russian Peoples fault, but, we need to fight back. So far we've been punched in the face multiple times, and we just say "Thanks, can I have another?" It wasn't the American Peoples fault they attacked us either...but they did. Joyfully.
I think it's time for massive stealth attacks from the Country that got their buts kicked around their shoulder blades. Stuff that can't be traced. What can we do to fight back? (Other than vote...etc.)

Looks like there's some angry FBI folks and probably CIA. The only CIA I can see who probably love the trums are the ones tagging ivanka on her security detail. (melania too Im sure.)


What say you?

[former9thward]

1. So scores of millions of Americans dying in a nuclear attack

is acceptable to you? You think Russia would just scratch its head wondering where the infrastructure attack came from? The stuff that gets posted .....

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

2. They attacked us...

I haven't seen the missiles flying. You?
Attack them...like they attacked us. Your suggestion is to just roll w it when our Democracy gets hit? Just a question. I see your equities. Thanks for the comment.

[former9thward]

4. Our infrastructure has not been hit.

That is false.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

6. Not fake. I'd call our voting system the most fundamental

infrastructure we have... but hey, that's just me. I said stealth attacks. Not boots on the ground. Turn up the heat a bit.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

3. The stuff that gets posted? Like what? I'm an ignoramus?

It was a rhetorical question. Get over yourself.

[Hortensis]

5. Obama did that in more ways than we are allowed

to know. Russia's responses, and Putin's personally, show very clearly that sanctions on the fortunes and freedoms of their kleptocrat class are what hurt. Trump's been trying to get rid of all the old sanctions and refusing to apply the new ones our congress unanimously passed. The attacks on NATO and EU are also in big part attempts to throw off international sanctions.

But, no, it's emphatically not time. Our government is run by elected Republicans, and war is declared by congress, and apparently they choose not to act.

Btw, a national grid-down event has been estimated to potentially kill 90% of all Americans (and Canadians) within a year. A much smaller, targeted grid down, through cyber means, might well be harder to accomplish than a big one via high-altitude nuclear-generated EMP. Even "only" 30-80% nationwide, or say just most of the east and southeast turned into Puerto Rico this afternoon, would be a bit of a problem.

Just a thought as we consider massive stealth attack capabilities these days. On the plus side for the rest of the planet, no nuclear winter and a North America gone dark would probably do wonders to combat global warming.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

7. I appreciate that information and input.

I agree. Pres. Obama was onto something.

[former9thward]

10. The sanctions did nothing.

Russia has not retreated one inch. And this Obama "did stuff we are not allowed to know" -- then how do you know it? That claim can be made about every president and it doesn't mean anything because any claim can be made since "we are not allowed to know".

[Hortensis]

13. Respectfully disagree. The sanctions

nearly took out Putin at one time and they definitely put a halt to much of Russia's advances into the territories of a couple dozen border countries at risk. This is a huge part of why Russia is fighting to keep Democrats out of power. For both his ambitions for Russia and him personally, this is an existential war.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

15. Sanctions are great we need lots more.

[Hortensis]

17. Just applying the ones congress ordered Trump to

would turn screws that were already hurting.

We need to VOTE in a congress that'll make the Russian oligarchs REALLY sorry! They have to be worried. We're not exactly the only nation they've been trying to take down. They have a lot of enemies.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

18. I couldn't agree more.

The question was a rhetorical one. I'm anti war. Most Dems are. However, if we are not even going to put this stuff on the table...we are truly putins bitch imho. AND I EMPHASIZE...My humble opinion. If a country knows we are unwilling to take a big step...then they've already won the war. Ask Malcolm Nance if he thinks we are already at war. Just throwing stuff out there. Sounds like the Congressional Democrats know full well dt is a traitor from yesterdys hearing.
Thanks Hortensis.

[Hortensis]

23. Didn't realize it was rhetorical, sorry.

So many expressions of frustration here.

We know Nance knows we're at war, all right. But, hey, we also know neither he nor many of us are Putin's bitches.

That's for those who are still clueless about the enormous threats we face, that our national government's under the control of a fifth-column party that's trying to surrender our democracy. Hopefully more are having that clarified for them by events, though. Every day now.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

24. I'm not the best at forming questions or positing theories.

I try though. Thanks for our answers. We're all just trying to get through this and maintain a semblance of sanity.

[Hortensis]

33. Lol, "semblance of sanity" unexpectedly

humorous because Trump's talking on TV now. We'd be the nuclear leader, he says, Russia second, China third -- this while he supposedly summarizes NATO's unified agreement, but it'd be nice if we could do something about proliferation, even if "we have no choice." Theresa May, next to him, is providing the semblance of sanity as he babbles on about "lot of love in that (NATO's) room." And how Europe's nations never had difficulty, never had problems" until brown-skinned hoards arrived.



He's apparently backpedaled on ending our nearly 400-year-old trade association with England ("fake news" ). Once he's safely away, no doubt he'll turn and yap and growl ferociously at May and NATO again. At least that's the pattern.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

16. I'm with you on this. Pres Obama was no stooge.

[Hortensis]

19. Democrats: Big enemy. Repubs: Big stooge.

Putin may not be really all that brilliant, but he certainly didn't get where he is by not knowing who the enemies he must take out are. And who can be useful to him.

Scary as the rise of evil, anti-democracy, anti-egalitarian forces is, I'm proud of our party's enemies, domestic and abroad. We, and our counterparts in other nations, are the huge enemy they must overcome to take power.

A classic for the ages in so many ways.

?w=748&h=539&crop=1

[bdamomma]

21. love that picture.

staring down on a little man. Oh I wish he was back.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

25. See putin crapping his pants.

Here he met his match for 8 years. Pres Obama....We sooo miss you Chief.

[bdamomma]

20. they should put

more sanctions on his ass, Putin is pushing for them to be dissolved just like the US.

Putin hated Democratic Presidents, he knew that they would not be played not like this POS we have now.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

26. Yes.

That was such a bolstering scene yesterday hearing Democratic Congressmen and women calling it OUT.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

14. I hadn't seen that in awhile.

When is enough enough? We haven't sent missiles to Russia....and they are fragmenting then crippling our country. It was a rhetorical question. I appreciate your input.

[Calista241]

22. They have nuclear anti satelitte weapons in orbit right now, and so do we.

Setting one to detonate as it passes over our country would be simplicity itself.

They, however, would regret it as our military would not be so damaged as we couldn’t obliterate them.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

28. Calista..

That's a great post. Good info.

[BeckyDem]

8. this would be an insane idea to even consider and would have devastating consequences if implemented

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

11. How would they know though?

its been two years and we aren't even "sure". How much do we take from Russia? And when do we return the favor? Like a poster said above, it was done before, and the missiles haven't flown yet. PS...whatever happened to missile defense etc? Not that I want that, but, the American People have been paying for it since Reagan.
Not saying attack then...proclaim we did it. Just make life a little uncomfy like Americans are right now. above...like Pres Obama did.
I appreciate your comment. Just a survey type of question.

[stevenleser]

29. You immediately went to conventional and nuclear war when the OP didn't mean that. nt

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

31. Thanks for that Steve.

Have a nice weekend.

[BeckyDem]

42. Don't tell me what I meant. The actions the OP is asking to be considered has no idea what the

reaction will be from Russia and neither do you. It's an irresponsible idea for many reasons.

Common ground: For secure elections and true national security
An open letter by Gloria Steinem, Noam Chomsky, Daniel Ellsberg, Walter Mosley, Valerie Plame and others


Gloria Steinem • Noam Chomsky • et al.
July 11, 2018 4:30pm (UTC)
This open letter originally appeared in the Nation. Used by permission.

Many Americans remain deeply concerned about reports of Russian interference with the 2016 election. Meanwhile, relations between the United States and Russia are at their lowest and most dangerous point in several decades. For the sake of democracy at home and true national security, we must reach common ground to safeguard common interests — taking steps to protect the nation’s elections and to prevent war between the world’s two nuclear superpowers.

Whatever the truth of varied charges that Russia interfered with the election, there should be no doubt that America’s digital-age infrastructure for the electoral process is in urgent need of protection. The overarching fact remains that the system is vulnerable to would-be hackers based anywhere. Solutions will require a much higher level of security for everything from voter-registration records to tabulation of ballots with verifiable paper trails. As a nation, we must fortify our election system against unlawful intrusions as well as official policies of voter suppression.

At the same time, the U.S. and Russian governments show numerous signs of being on a collision course. Diplomacy has given way to hostility and reciprocal consular expulsions, along with dozens of near-miss military encounters in Syria and in skies above Europe. Both sides are plunging ahead with major new weapons development programs. In contrast to prior eras, there is now an alarming lack of standard procedures to keep the armed forces of both countries in sufficient communication to prevent an escalation that could lead to conventional or even nuclear attack. These tensions are festering between two nations with large quantities of nuclear weapons on virtual hair-trigger alert; yet the current partisan fixations in Washington are ignoring the dangers to global stability and, ultimately, human survival.

The United States should implement a pronounced shift in approach toward Russia. No political advantage, real or imagined, could possibly compensate for the consequences if even a fraction of U.S. and Russian arsenals were to be utilized in a thermonuclear exchange. The tacit pretense that the worsening of U.S.-Russian relations does not worsen the odds of survival for the next generations is profoundly false. Concrete steps can and must be taken to ease tensions between the nuclear superpowers.

https://www.salon.com/2018/07/11/common-ground-for-secure-elections-and-true-national-security/

[stevenleser]

45. I'm telling you what you meant. And it was wrong. nt

[BeckyDem]

46. No, you don't, not even close.

[Hoyt]

9. Not for creating further tensions over things our country has done in the past by "attacking" others

We intervened/meddled in numerous foreign affairs and elections. Heck, trump just did it again this week. If we had a Congress that really cares about this country, they'd shut trump down this week -- call him home and impeach him.

I AM FOR doing a much better job of identifying foreign attempts to intervene in our elections, protecting social media, databases, our election systems, etc., and for responding immediately to correct lies and swift-boating. In my opinion, we dropped the ball in 2016 by not responding swiftly to lies -- whether from Russia or some white wing organization -- and for not outing trump and his campaign for their ties to Russia. I understand why President Obama was hesitant to do so, but we can no longer allow that.

I do not believe "attacking" Russia, or anyone else, is the proper approach in what is largely a propaganda campaign. I do think deterrent action and outing those here who offer any assistance or encouragement to foreign intervention in our elections is the proper approach. Anyone assisting foreign intervention in our elections is a traitor.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

12. Right on.

I'm asking to hear stuff just like this. Maybe ATTACKING was too harsh a word. I'm glad you posted.

[Downtown Hound]

27. There are ways of retaliating that do not include wiping us all out. n/t

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

30. That sir...or madame..

is a good point to remember eh? We have lots of ways to do things. I sure appreciate that you reminded us. We set a real bad example when we get attacked...and do nothing. No one likes a war. However, we pay for a military so vast...but only use it to promote Democracy (And after this guy...who wants this system?) we don't need to put boots down...or even leave a trail as to who just turned their lights out. For all they know...their own aging infrastructure just took a dump...Hard for russian trolls to hit us...if they have no computer power. We need a clean election in 18 and 20. Have a good weekend.

[FreepFryer]

32. *sigh* I guess the world needs shit-stirrers too. (n/t)

[braddy]

34. You confuse Russia with the Soviet Union, you want to invade East Germany and Poland, Lithuania,

Estonia, Ukraine, etc?

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

37. No I don't.

I use that term bc the regime would take them all back if they could. Same mentality. I appreciate the clarification though. I hear you. have a good weekend. TGIF!

[NCTraveler]

35. Isolation by way of working with the wold community.

Direct sanctions against more Russian individuals, corporations and the government.

Work so safeguard our own country against their attacks. This is nothing new for them they are just getting better at it and a lot of pieces have fallen into place.

Campaign of propaganda directed at their people.

I don't think much more should be done.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

40. Good input.

Thanks NC. Happy Friday.

[NCTraveler]

41. Happy Friday to you! nt

[shanny]

36. No such thing as a Soviet Union. Start there.

Aaand there are no CIA agents tagging Ivanka in her security detail. That is not what they do.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

38. Secret Service.

Youre right. Cia may be with them overseas however. Thanks for the clarification/parsing.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

39. I'm aware there's no Soviet union. I said that on purpose. Thanks.

If putin has his way...it'll be the old way toot sweet.
Contrary to your assertion...I'm not a complete imbecile. just a half-one.

[Ilsa]

43. More sanctions.

Ask our allies for more sanctions. If we still have any.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

44. And Boycott beyond that.

Especially Vodka. Go American or European.