Unfortunately, the "cult" is not convinced by the indictment today...

[kentuck]

If truth be known, they are probably more steadfast in their support of the trump?

This is not only a dilemma for Mueller, it is a dilemma for America.

Although Rosenstein advised that Americans not look at this in a partisan way, but in a patriotic way, it will have little impact on the followers of Donald Trump. They still believe this is all part of a plan by the "deep state". They may never recognize any evidence?

But, that is why Mueller will need to give them their medicine rather slowly. If he gives it all at once, they will immediately dismiss it as "fake".

However, if Mueller gets one or two more "insiders" to plead guilty, that will be hard for the "cult" to explain away. Make no mistake, it is a chess game between Mueller and Trump. For example, if he can get a guilty plea from Don Jr or Jared or Ivanka, that might open the eyes of the "cult"?

Even then, Trump will still be calling it a "witch hunt" and will be talking about "pardoning" those innocents that came to Washington to help him and to help America.

In the end, Mueller may have no choice but to charge Trump as an "unindicted co-conspirator" and request that all the evidence be handed over to the Congress?

[spanone]

1. 3000 kids didn't move them, nothing will

[uponit7771]

2. They wont leave Red Don until they feel betrayed and that would be to collude with the enemy which

... to them is America's non whites

[Garrett78]

26. As I said during the 2016 campaign season...

...the only way his followers would turn on him is if he came out in support of Black Lives Matter or of comprehensive and humane immigration reform or of feminism or of gay rights, or something along those lines.

Bigotry, especially racism, is *the* driving force behind his support. That anyone (on our side) has ever denied that is astounding.

[uponit7771]

40. +1

[D_Master81]

3. While disappointed at 1st...

the more i think about it, the more i like today's news.
1) there are now like 30 russians that have been indicted in this investigation. How long can sane people look at this and say this is a "witch hunt" designed to simply bring down the president? Clearly Mueller is doing his due dilligence to investigate Russian interference as he was tasked to do, not just investigate the President.
2) Mueller is clearly laying out that there was a Russian crime committed. To get anyone within the Trump campaign, you 1st have to prove there was a crime committed by Russia before you can prove there was American involvement with it. So after 2 rounds of indictments, no sane person can look at this now and say there wasnt significant Russian involvement.

[kentuck]

7. Excellent points!

[EffieBlack]

25. So true

They keep claiming that even if there was confusion, there was no crime. By laying a solid predicate for a crime - a huge one - when he proves collusion, they'll no longer be able to make that claim.

Mueller knows exactly what he's doing ...

[Fred Sanders]

23. Pair this military intelligence operation with the social media operation disclosed in the the other

indictment regarding Russian election meddling and the total picture is crystal clear...maybe even the Cult will have the propganda fog lifted a bit...how long can Fox ignore the news and keep the sheeple uninformed?

Also, what will be the propaganda spewing forth be from state media, that no Americans involved, so all is good, and so never mind ROGER STONE and his bedroom romance with a Trump and Wikileaks? Waiting in anticipation, but so far crickets....lots of crickets.

On edit: they have the story up...and are reporting factually! McCain and Graham join Democrats calling for cancellation of meeting with "the enemy of democracy"....still crickets from other Republicans RW talking headfucks.

[YessirAtsaFact]

51. Fox is somewhat schizophrenic about Trump

Sheppard Smith is reporting on Trump pretty well

Their opinion people at night are all in deny and distract mode.

[VMA131Marine]

4. The true Nazis still believed in Hitler even as Berlin crumbled and around them

Jim Jones followers drank poisoned Kool-Aid
Warren Jeffs of the FLDS still has a following even though he is imprisoned for life

Trump's followers are the definition of a cult of personality. They'll stick with him to the end and they'll never admit they made a mistake.

[TheRealNorth]

22. Dead-enders

Don't waste time trying to convince those who at this point STILL support Trump, but those who have defected from the party of Trump and those not engaged in the political process/not voting.

[jcgoldie]

5. "We have this political problem in the United States..."

"...Its stupidity... pure stupidity."

That's what Donald Trump said today and for the first time he wasn't lying.

[H2O Man]

6. Recommended.

We wouldn't really expect it to change their thinking. Their conscious mental abilities are handicapped by a confirmation bias. Thus, they are incapable of accurately processing incoming, new information. They are no more likely to change their minds based upon facts, than your lawn-mower is likely to read Latin. Machines are not conscious.

[kentuck]

8. As D_Master81 noted above...

"...no sane person can look at this now and say there wasnt significant Russian involvement."

There were no Americans named in the indictment, although most of us believe there were some conspirators in the Trump campaign?

But, it is difficult to argue that the Russians were not involved in a cyber attack upon our elections. That is the first step in getting them to admit there was something there...

[H2O Man]

13. Mr. Mueller and his team

are approaching this in the correct way for prosecutors, although we wish it would go faster. Part of that involves, as everyone knows, building the case by turning those who are either on the fringes, or who are weak links. But there is another part that is equally important, and we see that with today's indictments.

These were not the first round of indictments of Russians. A while back, charges were filed against those who engaged in the lower levels of cyber warfare -- spreading disinformation and misinformation on formats such as facebook. Today, Mr. Mueller took it to a higher level -- military intelligence officers who stole and then distributed information they hacked from Democrats. While those documents were neither disinformation or misinformation, some did make individuals like Debbie Wasserman-Schultz look rather bad. These documents certainly played a significant role in widening the division between the Clinton and Sanders' wings of our party.

Now let's consider the next step up in the investigation and prosecution of the shitheads in the Trump campaign. There were a heck of a lot of meetings between them and Russian agents. Don, Jr's meeting, for but one example. He was promised dirt on Clinton. His father delivered his "Russia, if you're listening ..." speech. And there are other similar examples of the Trump campaign engaging in a conspiracy with the Russians.

On an interesting note, I was told today that these indictments were in the waiting. Good prosecutors have good timing. It wasn't a coincidence that they were filed just before Trump gets on his knees in front of Putin.

[EffieBlack]

28. I agree with you about the timing

I suspect they would have held off if, after briefing Trump, he either cancelled the meeting or indicated he would hold Putin's feet to the fire. But, given his reaction, they probably dropped the mic on him so that, even if he didn't care, the rest of the world would know the context of the meeting he insist moves forward.

[H2O Man]

30. It would seem

that Trump's being informed goes a long way in explaining his more aggressive-obnoxious behavior in the following days, regarding NATO.

[kentuck]

37. My thoughts, also....

He was not in a good mood and he doesn't have the temperament to rise above it.

[H2O Man]

42. Roght.

Trump's personality structure mandates that when he feels stress and anxiety, he will take it out on the next available target. This week provided another glaring example of this.

[Amaryllis]

9. Rosenstein's words I thought were directed to many, but not the least to the congress

critters in the hearing yesterday, even more than the cult base.

[H2O Man]

14. Extremely important point.

Thank you.

[kentuck]

18. It could be argued...

...that they are also part of the "cult".

[Amaryllis]

19. Yes, but the difference is many of them are complicit and covering their own asses, unlike

the cultists who have swallowed right wing talking points.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210867805

[kentuck]

20. Probably true.

[Garrett78]

31. Some are. Mostly, I think they're just greedy and power-hungry.

And they know they can't turn against Trump and his following.

[ooky]

41. They are prisoners of this cult.

All you have to do to see this is visit one of their political websites. They have learned to lie as hard and as fast as Trump himself. Try to get into a political discussion on one of these sites, and they swarm you like yellow jackets with lies and ignorant rhetoric and name calling and threats. They make up lies as they go. Its as if they've been trained to lie. There is no reasoning with them. Its hard to believe they are real people. They are the very heartbeat of the cult, and I am convinced they will not be silenced until he is defeated.

[Garrett78]

32. Sure. Because they're the ones who can actually end the Trump regime.

But they're too greedy and power-hungry. They don't dare piss off the base.

[mnmoderatedem]

50. talk about falling on deaf ears

they're far more angry over an FBI agent having an extramarital affair then they are over a foreign entity subverting our democracy as we know it.

[FSogol]

10. The solution is to put Eric Trump and Don jr in Manafort's jail cell and wait for him to flip.

Manafort you are sentenced to life in prison with the Trumpy offspring!

[k8conant]

11. I think Trump should be an INDICTED co-conspirator...

in due time, of course.

[eleny]

12. I know someone who still thinks Nixon did nothing wrong

[Ilsa]

15. A.G. for bush 43, Alberto Gonzales is concerned:

Interview with Cavuto on Fox news:

Snip

ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, it would -- it would certainly change it for me, quite honestly.

This is very, very serious. We have a situation where Bob Mueller and his team believes they have credible evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they can introduce in court and be successful with the prosecution.

Yes, this is very serious. And I would worry about the president not seriously confronting the president of Russia about these indictments. This is extremely serious, but even more frightening is the sure knowledge that is this going to continue and is going to occur during the midterm elections and beyond.

So, I think I'm disappointed about the reaction, the public reaction from the White House. I understand they're happy about the fact that there's no ties to an American or to the Trump campaign, but to not say anything, and to not indict the Russian government for this indictment, to me, is baffling and disappointing, because this is extremely serious.

Snip

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2018/07/13/alberto-gonzales-wh-response-to-indictments-is-baffling.html

[Garrett78]

35. Baffling? Really? It's not the least bit surprising to me.

Nor do I think Republicans are frightened about Russian meddling continuing in 2018 and beyond. I think they welcome it.

[kacekwl]

16. Who cares, we only have to convince those

who can't get off their ass to vote.

[dgauss]

17. As long as RW radio, RW websites, and Fox News continue to spin and "Create their own realities,"

the hard core followers will continue to believe it. Period. There is no limit. I've firmly believed that ever since the Valerie Plame affair.

So it's not so much about whether there is any evidence that will convince those people, anything so shocking, so obvious and undeniable that they will finally be forced to admit it. There isn't anything that will do that.

The question is whether or not there is a way to stop the brainwashing. If not, the evidence is irrelevant.

[Takket]

21. you can't convince a cult. that is what makes it a cult.

[bitterross]

39. Exactly Right! They'll be calling him a martyr as he goes down.

He will become a martyr who was "crucified" by the deep state. Of that I have no doubt.

[0rganism]

24. yet if our republic survives this nightmare

in 12 years very few of them will admit to ever having supported Agent Orange.

[Garrett78]

36. Maybe but that won't mean their views will have changed. They'll still be bigots.

[0rganism]

47. naturally, and they'll never admit they made a mistake

and they'll definitely never admit they supported treason long after it was obvious

[onecaliberal]

27. Enforcing the law is NOT a dilemma. Criminals are going to pay. Doesn't matter who likes it.

[Books_Tea_Alone]

29. Spoke to my parents today-they still believe the FBI and Mueller corrupt to the core, but...

I did extract their previously made promise that if in fact it comes to light that T. rump either raped, trafficked, or murdered an underage girl THAT would be their breaking point. Of course the natural question I asked next is what about the children, especially those missing or separated right now. They said they are “less than” because they are from Mexico and also they are guilty of breaking the law. Embarrassed to say I’m related to them. They are wealthy, well-educated, suburban Bergen county New Jersey people, seniors that have been brainwashed. Faux news 24/7- they will never believe anything that emerges from Mueller as they place him at the same level of hatred as HRC

[Squinch]

33. It is horrifying when it's in the family. Good for you for taking the humane and ethical path.

[Squinch]

34. And by the way, welcome!

Glad you're here.

[Thomas Hurt]

38. I don't think it is settling in with people...

Many of the trumpists are jihadi level whackjob fanatics. These fundie wingers and magical thinkers amongst them think they are fighting a spiritual and social war for God and the Pig is their leader.

Make no mistake to them Trump is the equivalent of a Osama bin Laden or a Hitler, they have already bought into that fascist scam hook line and sinker.

The rest of the GOP are scavengers standing around with the thumbs up their @33es waiting to see what political scraps will fall their way.

Given the history of the last few decades, when the Pig's admin starts to fall, there will be more violence and more terrorist attacks.

[Dulcinea]

52. What they're clinging to...

...is the hope that their jobs & way of life will come back. These are people with tiny, depressing lives. All they want is the certainty of a job that pays the bills that they can work at for life, like coal mining and manufacturing. Dolt 45 promised them that, & they won't accept that that way of life is gone forever. Bigotry is part of it, but not the only thing.

[Codeine]

43. Meh. Those people will never be moved.

As long as Trump bullies the right people and trolls the hated group of the day they’ll stand foresquare behind him.

Trump supporters are human shit. Don’t waste your time or breath on them, and don’t expect a scintilla of decency under any circumstance.

These are the Baby Cagers. There is no hope for the Baby Cagers.

[dawg day]

46. They might leave him if they think he's a loser-

That's what happened with Nixon (who actually won by a HUGE landslide only 20 months before his resignation). Once he seemed like a loser, his fans all deserted him.

The thing with Trump though is he is SO arrogant, he doesn't even have that ability to feel bad. No matter what, he'll lumber around like he's the greatest ever. So maybe they'll still believe in him.

I think, however, all the normal GOP voters, the ones who voted for him because he was the GOP candidate but would rather have had Rubio or Bush, will desert him as soon as they think he's no longer useful to them... right around impeachment time.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

44. Some Compare Trump To Hitler; He's Actually David Koresh

And he and all his followers will gladly burn this country to the ground before admitting they were wrong.

[Initech]

48. Yup!

If Trump told them to go jump off a bridge, they'd do it wearing MAGA hats!

[dlk]

45. The Cognitive Dissonance of this Crowd is Astounding

Being right is more important than anything.

[tavernier]

49. Vote

Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote.

[wasupaloopa]

53. If we vote and put Dems in charge of investgations, screw tump's followers.

The outcome is in our hands. The House is where the investigations can happen. We can go on TV 24/7 with Mueller's evidence all year in 2019.

IF WE VOTE!