Mare's Milk For Health? Europeans Look To Horses For Ancient Remedy

[applegrove]

Last edited Sun Jul 15, 2018, 08:40 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/12/627454097/mares-milk-for-health-europeans-look-to-horses-for-ancient-remedy?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180714

"SNIP.....


Goat's milk. Sheep's milk. Soy milk. Almond milk. The grocery store shelves these days are filled with alternatives to dairy from cows. But in Europe, interest is growing in milk from a surprising source: horses.

While the idea of sipping mare's milk might sound unusual to Western readers, it's been a traditional staple in Central Asia, where it is often fermented into "koumiss," a mildly alcoholic drink that was adopted by Russian doctors in the mid-19th century as a treatment for tuberculosis. Patients no less illustrious than the writers Anton Chekhov and Leo Tolstoy swore by its curative powers. In Europe today, mare's milk remains a niche product, but its reputation as a health elixir is causing trouble for producers in a more regulated age.


......SNIP"

I read an article that talked about alcoholism in Russia and how the Asia ancestors of many Russians only had the enzyme to process mare's milk alcohol, not alcohol produced from potatoes or grain. And i wondered if it is the same for indigenous Canadians or if their migration to the Americas happened before koumiss was a staple in Asia. Why should there only be grain or berry alcohol available in Canada? Anyway. Food for thought. Good to see some of the old ways coming back.

[dhol82]

1. Had some in Kazakhstan several years ago

Almost had an anaphylactic response.
Just took barely a sip and my lips swelled up and the throat was major itchy. Sat there for a long time waiting for more. Fortunately, I was ok.
Who knew I was so allergic?
Also, didn’t even like the taste.

[applegrove]

2. Oh. Yes I guess there would be some side effects as with any new food.

And i guess bacteria and all. Glad you were okay. That would be terrifying.

[dhol82]

6. This was with the fermented mare's milk so I don't think bacteria were a problem.

That being said, it was a scary moment.

[applegrove]

8. I guess not if it is fermented.

[Major Nikon]

9. Fermentation doesn't always cultivate the right bacteria

It’s relatively safe most of the time, but sometimes the wrong bacteria gets cultured instead of the desired ones.

Allergic reactions are usually a response to a certain protein. It’s possible there’s some protein that’s unique to horse’s milk that you can’t have.

[dhol82]

10. Considering I am violently allergic to horse dander and saliva I would think that would be the case

When I tried it that knowledge did not enter my mind.

[TexasProgresive]

4. I'm allergic to equine sera such as snake

Anti venom. So I don't think I'm having any of that. You may be as well. I carry info to use CroFab ovine (sheep) anti venom

[dhol82]

7. Interesting to know. Did not realize that anti-venom could have that problem

I am allergic to pages of stuff. Currently going through shots.
Next time I go I will ask about snake anti-venom.

[csziggy]

3. Mare's milk is very rich and high fat

I tried some colostrum - the first milk the mare produces that includes antibodies to help the foals get a jump start on their immunities. That may have been more highly flavored than normal mare's milk but it was not very good in my opinion.

At the time we had a premature foal that could not stand to nurse. We had to milk the mare and bottle feed the filly. As long as I was milking the mare I figured I might as well have a taste!

I wish I had known that mare's milk would become a "thing" - that mare and another one I had were big milk producers and usually had more milk than their own foal could drink. In fact, one year that mare's filly was late. When we weaned the other foals, that filly wasn't mentally ready so we put her and her dam out with the other five foals. All the foals ended up nursing off that one mare and she had plenty of milk for them all.

I could have selected her fillies for big milk producers and created a breed of high milking mares! It could have been my fortune....

[Raine]

5. UGH this will lead to more abusive treatment of animals

this time with horses.

[GulfCoast66]

11. I've spent time around dairy cows and to a lesser degree dairy goats

They live about as good a life as any animal, wild or free ever experience. Contented and stress-free animals give more milk. Their owners work hard to achieve those conditions.

I realize vegetarians or vegans may disagree with any exportation of animals. And I respect that.

Wild animals live in a constant state of fear that they are going to be killed and eaten by a predator. A pasture full of dairy cows is about as stress-free a life as any animal on this earth will ever experience.

[Doremus]

14. Mastitis, forcible impregnation, babies taken away causing incredible distress for mother and baby,

keeping mothers pregnant/lactating to the exclusion of all else including their health because when all is said and done, after a lifetime of providing profits to their overlords, when they no longer meet quota they are rewarded by being sent to the kill floor where they are slaughtered in the most horrific manner possible.

I know you mean well when you say they live about as good a life as any animal will ever experience, but your statement is about as ignorant and pollyannish as any I've read on this site in my tenure here.

Here are some references for you to pursue if you'd like to learn the facts:

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls062591907/

[GulfCoast66]

15. First time I've ever been called Pollyanna!

With the exception of humans and perhaps our pets, the life of all other animals be in the farmyard are or fields and woods is full of fear, normally ends early and brutally.

Your statement that cows are slaughtered in the most horrific manner possible is just bullshit. In nature those animals would be dragged down and consumption would begin before they were dead or even unconscious.

I have been to slaughter houses and I know what happens. It’s not pretty. But it’s no worse and perhaps kinder ithan the fate of animals who were killed and eaten in the wild.

And by the way, cows do not have babies, they have calves. And in nature calves means buffet time for predators. They kill and consume a huge majority of them before they can even run. Often times starting consumption before the calves are dead.

Apparently you see humans consuming animals as different than other predators doing the same. I do not because I realize I am an animal the same as them. Only genetic luck and the fact that our species began eating meat very early allowed us to evolve with greater intelligence. And only humans of all animal species ever make an attempt, however seldom, to mitigate the suffering Our prey goes through.

If humans had never come to the New World we would have millions and millions of bison roaming the plaines. And they all would have a shared fate. To be run down, immobilized and eaten by a predator normally while they were still living.

So who is the Pollyanna here?

[Doremus]

18. Your assertion that there are wild cows shows your deep ignorance on this subject.

Do you have any idea how many animals are slaughtered for our pleasure each year? Obviously not because you'd probably quit the ridiculous assertion they're living bucolic lives on storybook pastureland. Over 100K PER DAY. 1.3 MILLION PER MONTH.

Are you aware that the food that's fed to these animals could wipe out world hunger and feed a billion people a year? Or that they emit more than half of all the greenhouse gas emissions in the world? Do you know what that does to the environment? Do you care?

Wild cows. OMG.

[GulfCoast66]

19. My ignorance of the issue?

This is one of my fields of study in school. We bred wild cows into what we have today. Same as we did with dogs. And pigs. And goats. Wild cows, which we call oxen are still very much on the scene. In Africa and Asia wild oxen still exist. There is actually an effort to breed back European oxen. Which we turned into cows. Cows by definition are domesticated. Give them 3 generations living feral and they are oxen. You do not know WTF you are talking about.

We are predators and evolved to eat meat. In fact, recent research is suggesting that our evolutionary ancestors eating meat is the only reason we evolved to have the intellect we have. No other food would support the massive calorie needs our advanced brain needed.

I am comfortable embracing the fact that I am a predator and evolved to eat meat. So did you.

And world hunger? It is not from a lack of food of which we have plenty. But shitty governance which we also have in abundance.

I get that this an emotional issue for you. But it a scientific issue for me. Ruminates are not the cause of global warming. There have always been millions of them burping and farting like crazy. Fossil fuels are the reason we have global warming.

And finally, your question do I care? Let me ask you a question. Should we shoot all the wolves that kill bison? If not, then STFU about people eating meat. We evolved the same as they did.

[GulfCoast66]

21. If facts do not support you, go to insults and defection. I studied the evolutionary history of cows

We bred them from wild oxen and Buffalo both of which exist today. Modern Cattle left alone for 3-4 generations will become wild oxen and Buffalo. Argue against that if you wish, but you were arguing against fact.

But all this is a deflection against our original discussion. We are predators. And we are the only predators who attempt to mitigate the suffering of our prey.

I care about the number of domesticated cattle killed about as much as I care about the number of wild animals killed by predators.

Can we do it in a much more environmentally friendly manner? Of course. But consuming cows and other animal flesh is part and parcel with being a human. A top level predator.

[Doremus]

27. You said you helped domesticate them. Quite a feat as they were domesticated in the 1600s.

The rest of your prose will just have to hang in cyberspace as I don't plan to read any more of the nonsensical ramblings.

[Blue_true]

22. He is right. Cows came from domestication of wild animals.

As did dogs and cats. If a domesticated animal goes through two to three generations of being feral, they largely revert back to their wild form.

I don't eat cow meat because of my body chemistry. But meat is a part of my diet. The 5,000 year old European mummy was found to have a meat rich diet, with some wild grains. We have been meat eaters for a long long time and that is in our evolutionary makeup. Maybe we can evolve to be non meaters, but even if everyone agreed, it would take centuries for our bodies to adjust, but there are some non meat eating cultures, I don't know whether they also don't consume diary, I think most do.

[Doremus]

26. The domestication event you refer to occurred hundreds of years ago, i.e. ca 1600s.

Dogs and cats were domesticated thousands of years ago.

Thanks for your stimulating input.

[Blue_true]

28. If you are going to be insulting, at least get your shit right.

I said that cows were domesticated from wild animals. Growing up on the south, I have seen a couple of wild modern cows in my lifetime, they are not to be messed with.

BTW, cows were first domesticated around 11,000 years ago. I'm sort of kinda decent at math, I call bullshit on your circa 1600 claim.

My point stands, meat and/or dairy products have been incorporated as vital to the diets of humans. People can eat leaves and twigs if they chose to, my diet will continue to have some form of meat and dairy based yogurt.

[Nevernose]

12. Ethanol is ethanol

And indigenous Americans had ethanol centuries before Europeans arrived. If there is a biological difference in addiction rates, my guess would be a more-purely genetic one, perhaps in the brain itself.

The alcohol produced by the OG Americans, like Koumiss, was very low alcohol. My guess is that higher alcohol addiction rates (if not purely socioeconomic/sociological in origin) would be more likely to be access to higher grade alcohol than their ancestors plus a lower genetic threshold. Alcohol is broken down by liver enzymes, which don’t have nearly as much genetic variability as stomach enzymes.

In one of those TV commercial genetic tests, people used to be able to send their results to the UK’s NIH. Part of the information given was the efficacy of certain drugs, usually illicit. Genetically speaking, opiates affect me about half as well as they do the general population (which makes going to the dentist or a doctor for pain a hassle), while amphetamines supposedly are twice as effective. The purpose of the research was to determine the likelihood of addiction; theoretically I could try heroin and never look back, but meth would make me lose my mind. I wonder if there’s not a similar brain-gene for alcoholism in certain subgroups.

[applegrove]

13. Yes. I wonder about the science behind it all. And last year it was reported

the British were developing a type of alcohol which would stop being effective after hitting a certain threshold. Or something like that. Which would have kept me from becoming an alcoholic after trauma. People with ptsd drink to live in oblivion or in another world than the one where the trauma is. Knowing it would not take me away would have tempered my drinking. Not that i drank that often. Just that when I did I binged.

[jpak]

16. According to Zero Mostel - Mare's Sweat is a Thing

[applegrove]

17. Don't know the reference but it looks very Monty Pithon-ish.

[jpak]

23. A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

I saw it as a kid - and I think ZM's character was always after mare's sweat to cure a hangover.

maybe?

[applegrove]

24. Funny.

[LakeSuperiorView]

25. The Mare's Sweat was for a sleeping potion.

It becomes useful when Senex returns early, Pseudolus sprinkles it on him and convinces him he needs a bath.

An excellent movie, wish it would show up more often.