A "Treason Trap"?

[SHRED]

Interesting.

Link to tweet

?s=19

[spanone]

1. K&R...

[exboyfil]

2. So much worse than Nixon

[NoMoreRepugs]

3. There are going to be MANY LURES in the water

when all is said and done.

[HAB911]

4. I like it

[dalton99a]

5. Kick

[bucolic_frolic]

6. I'd call it 'defacto defection' but

it's probably the same thing.

But I doubt this crisis of U.S. sovereignty is going to be solved by a technical reading of the criminal code

[Moostache]

7. Look, I'll settle for "incapable of holding any office" and call it square (n/t)

[Pepsidog]

8. Would giving a BJ to Putin be considered "aid and comfort?" Just wondering

[Auggie]

12. That explains the private meeting, BTW

[Pepsidog]

15. Seems so. Dirty Grandpa Donnie is Putin's puppet. Reagan is turning in his grave.

[erronis]

41. Are translators involved? Perhaps urinating ones?

[Auggie]

42. LOL

[packman]

17. Well, it would be the greatest, the best and the most remarkable one ever

(if he describes it)

[Pepsidog]

19. Haha!

[Pepsidog]

20. Haha very true.

[lamsmy]

9. Just treason

It's only a trap if the device is concealed then sprung, trapping the unwitting victim.

Every campaign and presidency (in a normal world) has legal advisors employed full time to warn precisely of what is and what is not permissible. Ignorance of the law is not a defense for an otherwise legally sane adult.

Knowing in advance that you are conspiring with a foreign power to undermine another American, receiving materials you know to be stolen (regardless of who provided them), and directing those thieves to steal yet more material - all of these are criminal acts committed long before anyone thought to lay a trap.

Mueller is not setting a hidden trap, he is speaking directly and openly to Trump. Mueller has the goods on Trump. And every time Trump ignores the law and his own national security branches, it is simply more proof on the pile of his guilt.

[volstork]

10. So who is going to do anything about it?

The repub majority in Congress has rolled over to protect their complicity.

[Pepsidog]

14. As I have Daily convulsions over this stuff that is what my wife says, why isn't anyone doing

anything about it? She is sick off me talking about it. I fear there is only a very small segment of the population that understands all this and worse off, cares about it which is infuriating.

[world wide wally]

11. Trump is not only a "willing" Russian operative, but an "eager" one.

He is constantly trying to get in Putin's good graces. Always going the extra mile.

[Wounded Bear]

13. Nice try, but at best it is aiding and abetting felons...

Putin isn't on the indictment, nor is the nation/gov't of Russia. That requires a Congressional declaration.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

16. There is no war, there is no treason

If we were at war with Russia, I'm sure we'd notice. Things have not gotten to that level, yet.

Nobody has been convicted of Treason in the past sixty years or so. The bar is high.

[Hortensis]

21. Just, treason's what traitors do.

Our nation has various laws against betraying our nation at any time, which means what we all know to be treason is a crime at any time. We all also know the constitution's use of that one word, no need to explain it, just to understand that our founding fathers did not, either accidentally or intentionally, make treason legal whenever we are not at war.

A treason trap is a very interesting concept. Trump, who was caught red-handed (stupid pun intended) giving Russia classified information before, is having yet another undocumented meeting with Putin, this one 2 hours long. The entire world is wondering what treason is being committed by the President of the United States while people wait to learn.

Oh, dear. Just learned Putin announced that joint cyber-security group, and kept a straight face, even as DNI Coats has us at red alert for cyber attack from Russia.

We live in interesting times.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

22. "Giving Russia classified information" is an interesting charge.

Considering that the president is probably also the "information-classifier-in-chief", if he hands information to a "foe", he might be simply declassifying it. So, no crime.

This is one for constitutional scholars, one of which I am not.

To me, he's just a grifter, not rising to the level of traitor.

[Hortensis]

23. Well, if he did not declassify it before giving it to Russia,

and he did not, would we be better served by a 3-day convention of constitutional scholars or an indictment under current law?

Imo, he's a grifter, a sexual predator, almost certainly an aware traitor, a very silly man, a very dangerous man, and a mentally dysfunctional fraction of a man but not insane.

[thesquanderer]

39. I think simply providing the info ipso facto declassifies it, to the person he gives it to.

That is, a president can share classified info with anyone he wants, since he inherently has the power to decide who does and does not have access to any piece of information. I don't think he needs to go through any formal procedure to get authorization to share info. The person he has to check with is himself.

[Hortensis]

40. Interesting, and don't know enough to claim this

huge flaw in our law wouldn't exist. Would Kavanaugh be able to provide legal precedent for a coinciding opinion, do you think, or would a decision establish new legal ground?

Back to the OP's subject, ex- CIA chief John Brennan's comment:

Link to tweet

[kacekwl]

27. Wouldn't hacking our voter information and the like

be considered an act of war, cyber war, cyber attack whatever you want to call it ?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

29. If Congress says it is an act of war, and declares war, then we're at war.

The last treason conviction was from WW2, which was also the last declared war.

[bettyellen]

28. They attacked America. Sadly it has to be proven in court for some to accept it. But it happened.

[NewJeffCT]

31. Some think that Mueller indicting the GRU officers

for conspiracy against America sets it up as an act of war for attacking America, since the GRU is Russian Military intelligence and work under the orders of Putin.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

32. Everything important over there is military.

The old dominant Soviet hockey teams at the olympics were Russian military.

I might also consider the election meddling to be an act of war, but I'm not Congress, it's not my call.

[calimary]

18. Yep.

[gordianot]

24. Listening to Trump and Putin the trap obviously is working.

If it is a trap it is like catching a starving rat with cheese.

[moondust]

25. Something like that.

I suspected the timing was to remind TheRump on the eve of his big meeting of the seriousness of what happened and then watch how he behaves in that light. He appears to be failing the test.

[lagomorph777]

26. The timing was obviously not coincidental.

Mueller's indictment, followed by Trump's secret collusion with Putin, does make it pretty plain what Trump is up to.

[onenote]

30. Silly.

Mueller isn't setting a "treason" trap because he actually knows what is and isn't treason under the Constitution. We are not in a state of war with Russia. Russia has not been declared an enemy for purposes of the Trading with the Enemies Act. We maintain diplomatic relations with Russia, citizens of the two countries travel between them and there is a large amount of private economic activity between Americans and Russians.

Those are not the characteristics of countries that are in a state of war with one another. Consider that even the Rosenbergs weren't charged with treason and then think about whether Mueller would claim that the constitutional standard for treason has been met here.

[moondust]

34. "adheres to their enemies"

Doesn't mention having to be in a state of war. At this point Russia is clearly an "adversary" but I don't know if it crosses the line into "enemy."

[onenote]

37. The definition of enemy:

The term "enemy" as used in the laws of the United States is found in title 50 of the US Code (War and National Defense): Section 2204: "the term "enemy" means any country, government, group, or person that has been engaged in hostilities, whether or not lawfully authorized, with the United States."

The term "hostilities" is not defined in title 50, but it is defined in title 10 (Armed Forces). Section 948a - "The term “hostilities” means any conflict subject to the laws of war."

Our differences with Russia do not amount to a conflict subject to the laws of war.

Moreover, a quarter of a million Americans will probably visit Russia as tourists this year and several billion dollars of commerce between the countries will occur. If there has been a time when Americans freely traveled to a country with which we are at war I can't recall it.

[moondust]

38. Congress needs to officially decide

if cyber attacks on U.S. infrastructure and election systems constitute "hostilities" or "acts of war." The Internet obviously wasn't around in the late 1700s.

How An Entire Nation Became Russia's Test Lab for Cyberwar

[bucolic_frolic]

33. No Treason Trap needed

he's gone the Full Monty

[green917]

35. I made this exact point not 3 minutes ago

Gr8 minds and such...

[former9thward]

36. Internet lawyers...

Got to love their tweets....

[Wawannabe]

43. +millions

[roamer65]

44. It did force Dump to admit his allegiance to Russia.

Brilliant move by Mueller on just getting that to happen.

Now let the court of public opinion do its job.