Hear me out: I'm sad that Hillary "lost," but I think it had to be this way for us to survive.

[phylny]

If she had "won" (and I think she honestly did), the conspiracy, collusion, treason, the money laundering, the cheating, the complicit guilt of the GOP would never have been exposed. She would have been hounded with Benghazi-type investigations on steroids, the email server would be front and center daily, and there would be no end to the hell the GOP would put her through.

Our country is in turmoil, so much damage has been done to our government under TrumPutin. Damage to our citizens and our Democracy, and our national psyche.

This part of The Lord's Prayer has been echoing in my head all day: "Deliver us from evil." She would have been such an effective president, but with a Trump "victory," pure evil is being exposed.

Stay strong!

[brooklynite]

1. HOw the hell is this different than Jill Stein's message?

"We need Trump elected to bring about a progressive revolution"?

[phylny]

2. I said nothing about a progressive revolution.

Do you think this massive, worldwide corruption would have been exposed if Trump had lost?

Please don't lump me in with Jill Stein, who might also be a traitor.

[wasupaloopa]

8. Bernie or bust folks said if trump won it would

bring on the revolution. What you are saying is similar IMHO.

[phylny]

13. Thanks for your opinion.

Where did I write Trump's win would bring on a revolution? I might have missed where I wrote that.

[brooklynite]

18. "It had to be this way for us to survive"

[phylny]

27. As a nation, yes. nt

[Hortensis]

63. And Anthony Bourdain had to commit suicide

in order to survive, how unfortunate something accidentally went terribly wrong with his fix?

No.

That's not the only point on which I think your musing's wandered away from reality. Besides being reminded of the very real threats of fascism rising here and around the planet, please remember all that's going wrong right now, including the first wave of detention camps Trump's government has planned to hold over 100,000 immigrants. And let's spare a second to acknowledge all the tragedies Trump's election has lead to overseas. Tonight, how many children will have finally succumbed to starvation in little Yemen alone?

But, above all, you really need to remember all that would instead be going very right at this time, because that's what we have to achieve. That's our work, interrupted. Such as

A liberal-dominated Supreme Court.
Strengthening and enforcement of the rights of individuals.
Hundreds of thousands enrolled in the affordable college classes they desperately need.
Half the homes in America already getting solar power, and emissions dropping.
The national minimum wage raised to $15/hour.
Employee rights and protections strengthened.
The ACA expanded and age to qualify for Medicare dropped.
Tens of thousands of good new infrastructure-improvement jobs.
Increased taxes on the wealthy, over those imposed under Obama and repealed by Trump.
Suppression of voter suppression.

Many other should-have-beens.

[phylny]

74. Good points.

A bit disgusting about the suicide, though. Not funny.

Do you think all that would have happened with a Republican Congressional majority, or do you think we would have won Congress?

[Hortensis]

95. We were on track to take the senate handily,

and by the end of summer getting a majority in the house was not only no longer unthinkable but being considered possible. Hillary was always far ahead of Trump in all polls except that UCLA one. Remember the confusion about how all the polls could be so wrong for over a year? They weren't wrong. They were polling voters, not the conspiracists. As Russia's warring took effect, only then did the polls start their bizarre gyrations.

Without Russia (would Comey have misused his power if Russia's warring hadn't made keeping national power in Republican hands possible?), we should have at minimum gained enough control of congress to pass much of our legislation in not too mangled forms and to stymie most of the hard right's plans for dismantling our institutions, and Russia's of course.

[brush]

42. BS, you seem to be forgetting that Comey was investigating...

trump's campaign. You know, the investigation he failed to mention in late Oct., 2016 when he announced he was re-opening the investigation of Clinton's emails.

What is that, selective memory on your part?

[Gothmog]

116. Yes, it could have been investigated by a Clinton DOJ

The intelligence agencies would have investigated. The GOP may have agreed to a joint review in part to make sure that trump never runs again.

[Gothmog]

114. Agreed

This is the same as the Stein and Sarandon message

[4now]

3. Yeah this is so much better.

[EndGOPPropaganda]

4. I'm with you.

We still have a majority.

If you gave the GOP another 8 years to run Fox and Limbaugh propaganda, we might be in a permanent minority.

[JI7]

5. FUCK THAT , the "it needs to get worse before it gets better" comes from those who claim to be the

left and want democrats to lose because they actually are right wing leaning and want republicans to win.

[phylny]

7. Are you suggesting that I want Democrats to lose?

Nothing could be farther from the truth. I haven't advocated for voting for anyone but Republicans. Since our reality is that TrumPutin is in control, it has exposed evil that has been simmering under the surface for years, perhaps since Reagan.

[JI7]

12. the evil was already exposed, the problem is doing something about it which the Republicans in Power

are not.

[phylny]

17. I don't think the entirety of the evil really was exposed.

We've known for years about the cheating, but never in my wildest dreams did I think that the GOP would be in bed with Russia - and I think that's what we're going to find out. I think from the top to the bottom, they've been accepting Russian money. That's why I think they're all terrified to stand up - really stand up - to Trump.

[JI7]

29. because Republicans refused to investigate . as Adam Schiff said, they refused to question that

woman arrested today.

[wasupaloopa]

6. If she had won we wouldn't need to expose that shit.

We would be living in a more progressive country enjoying the benefits of our hard work.

[phylny]

9. Do you think the money laundering, collusion, and corruption

would have gone away?

Listen, I'm not HAPPY this happened, but I think if it hadn't, we would not have known about Russian's infiltration of the GOP.

[wasupaloopa]

15. Thinking we need to kill the body to stop the rot

is stupid!

[phylny]

19. Thanks for saying I'm stupid.

How would we have found out about Trump/GOP coordination with and infiltration by Russia otherwise?

[wasupaloopa]

21. We already knew. I said the idea was stupid.

[phylny]

28. That's so much better.

[Gothmog]

117. What do you think that the intelligence reports showed?

The intelligence agencies could investigate this and issue reports

[wasupaloopa]

20. Intelligence knew about Russia and trump

before the election.

[phylny]

32. True, but I don't know if the hatred the GOP has for Hillary

would have further handcuffed the investigation, nor do I know if the depth of the corruption would have been exposed. Perhaps so.

[brush]

46. Please stop. Comey was investigating the trump campaign...

He kept it secret but eagerly revealed the re-opening of the Clinton email investigation.

Your theory holds no water at all.

[rufus dog]

24. I understand where the OP is coming from - Somewhat

Had Clinton won and also the Dems had picked up a few Senate seats, (A logical assumption if you believe a few Senate seats were impacted) then the Repugnant Fucks would have likely won in 2018 and won the Presidency in 2020. (16 years of control by either party is rare)

2020 happens to be a census year so we would have had 10 more years of Repugnant Fucks gerrymandered B.S.

Now it may turn out the Dems win in both 2018 and 2020. So in a strange way the Orange shit storm may blow up on the Repugnant Fucks.

We will need some divine intervention to correct the SC picks though. Dems need to fight Kavanaugh hard, delay, disrupt, refuse to consider any picks from a Russian asset.

[phylny]

30. This is my hope.

I think Dems are energized for a midterm election like never before. I think we tend to look at the presidential election to the detriment of off-year elections.

Trust me, I'm sick over the SC picks. McConnell is in on the corruption (duh) because he KNEW Trump would win.

[True Dough]

57. I don't agree with your premise either

but no hate, OP. I don't see anything malicious in your intent. You have posted 5,600 times as the DU and none are currently hidden. You don't seem like the troll type that some assume you are.

Diversity of opinion is somewhat constrained here due to ReThug infiltrators, but I don't believe you're one of them at all.

Carry on!

[phylny]

78. Thanks. I mean no malice.

I hate what happened. I've lost sleep and gained weight. I've worried about my kids. Other people's kids. My gay and lesbian friends and family. I've worried about my clients who are DACA recipients or undocumented. I'm certainly no Republican - ask my Republican father-in-law, as I've not spoken with him in months. I'm only talking to my Republican father because he's 92 and my father. I rejoice that my Republican-lite husband is no more. He voted for Obama twice and now votes blue. Our three daughters and two sons-in-law do likewise.

Perhaps I shouldn't have opened my mouth, so to speak, but I think the corruption that is being exposed is worldwide, deep, and will horrify all of us even more (if that's even possible).

Even though you disagree, and I can see why, thanks for your kind words.

[Gothmog]

118. The answer is to work our butts to GOTV for the midterm

Right now we need to ignore silliness like the OP and work to win in the midterms. I am in sort of a state of shock as to how trump may be helping Texas turn blue faster than anticipated

Link to tweet

In Texas we have largely gutted the GOP voter suppression/voter id law and we are planning on fighting like crazy. The recent fundraising numbers may force the GOP to spin more in Texas which means that there is less to spend in other states

Link to tweet

I prefer to fight than moan

[RandySF]

10. Stop

Children would not have been ripped from their parents’ arms. There would be no Muslim travel ban. Gorsuch would not be sitting on the Supreme Court. Five Green Berets would be alive. Nk one would be punching holes in the ACA. We’re not all rich like Susan Sarandon who can sit in her ping pong bar and wait for the revolution.

[phylny]

14. Thanks for your suggestion that I stop.

Do you think the corruption that's infiltrated the GOP would have gone away?

[RandySF]

25. Republican corruption has been out in the open for decades and it's not going away

I would gladly your goal for those Green Berets' lives.

[Gothmog]

119. I agree with your analysis

[Mme. Defarge]

11. I have had the same thought.

Had Hillary become president she would have been impeached by now and none of this monstrous, treasonous corruption would have been exposed.

Mais, tout de même, je suis désolée.

[phylny]

26. This is my line of thinking.

Did I want her to be president? You bet your life I did. Have I agonized over this presidency? Hell, yes. Look at the abuse she takes from the GOP and she's not even in power.

I think worldwide corruption has been exposed.

[CanSocDem]

84. Agreed.

It was time to learn about the reign of the oligarchy. They have been eroding democratic values for decades. Sometimes it takes a slap to wake us up.

Donald Trump is your "slap".

.

[GulfCoast66]

16. This is Saradon and Stein shit coming in the front door.

This is not a game and our opponents play for keeps.

And now they are keeping the Supreme Court for 30 years.

You should delete your OP.

[phylny]

23. I will not, but thanks for chiming in. nt

I wanted Hillary to win. I didn't vote for anyone else. I voted for her and was devastated that Trump won. I do believe, however, her presidency would have been cut off at the knees. I think that now, since this happened, the corruption of the GOP will be exposed in a way that may not have been possible otherwise.

[Cha]

53. We would have had a Liberal SCJ.. that's a generation.. Not gorsuch

.. your theory is only your opinion and whomever else agrees with you.

I think it's selfish.. you obviously can make it through trump destroying everything good about America and the agencies that help Millions of Americans who might not make it through. A lot of people are scared right now.

The KIDS would Not have been Kidnapped and snatched out of their parents arms. That's thousands of KIDS and parents who will be traumatized for life.

Hillary would have had Veto POWER!

But, you just go on with your negative little fantasy scenario if the Russian intelligent service hadn't been successful in hacking the voting and all the other methods they used to Rig in trump.

Hillary would Not have been removed from Office.

We wouldn't have this daily SHITE of Lies Lies Lies..



Williamhttps://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210876046

And, all the murderous Racists emboldened because of being egged on to violence by their supreme leader trump.

[Demsrule86]

89. I have very very few folks on ignore, but you are now on the list as I don't want to read

such nonsense...we have lost the courts for decades and that is never never a good thing. There is no silver lining...and I would point out had we won, we could have had a proper investigation into Russian interference in our election. I have no idea why this was even posted.

[phylny]

90. Right back at you.

Oh, you won't see this. Nevermind

[NurseJackie]

51. Agreed. Totally Sarandonesque...

This is Saradon and Stein shit coming in the front door.

Agreed. Totally Sarandonesque!

The OP's message is just a shitty (not so clever) repackaging Hillary hatred and obsession with emails and Benghazi. It's a rehash of of the Stein and Sarandon message that tries to find a positive way to spin the "burn-it-down-to-rebuild-it" philosophy. It must be nice to not be one of the most vulnerable among us... to be able to AFFORD what it will cost to endure the horrors that await.

I've only ever seen one other example of a "liberal" being so GIDDY at the thought of Trump being in charge. It's what Susan Sarandon wanted. Just LOOK at how animated she is...she can barely contain her excitement at the horrors that await us.

[Gothmog]

120. Agreed

[oasis]

22. We also have the added bonus of Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and a Justice

to be named later by the Federalist Society.

[ecstatic]

31. Nope. What about the hundreds of judges who have been installed all over the country?

And Gorsuch and now this new (Russian controlled?) clown Kavanaugh?

What about the babies and toddlers who will NEVER see their parents again due to trump's cruel & inhumane forced separations?

The environmental protections that have been reversed? The financial regulations that have been reversed? The people who will die due to Medicaid cuts now that the taxscam has assured it's failure?

I mean, I agree that the gop would have turned DC into WW3 if Hillary won, but I'd prefer that any day to this.

[phylny]

33. You make excellent points that I agree with.

Do you think the worldwide corruption would have been exposed if TrumPutin had lost? Would there be the same fervor on the left?

[ecstatic]

34. Everything happens for a reason, but the past few years

of trump has been an absolute nightmare that has ruined relationships and lives.

I think the FBI was already on to the massive GOP corruption prior to Nov 2016.

[phylny]

36. That could well be.

I wonder, though, when they knew. I also wonder why the GOP thought they could get away with it. Probably because criminals get brazen and never think things through fully.

[BlueTsunami2018]

35. I think these investigations would have happened under President Hillary.

Are you suggesting that Legitimate President Obama only started this investigation and laid on sanctions because Hillary Clinton “lost”?

I don’t buy that. I absolutely think this investigation would have gone forward because of the implications of what could have been. Also, if the election wasn’t rigged we would have had the senate as well.

No, we would have gotten the bottom of this with fewer obstructions and wouldn’t be worrying about survival. We’d be celebrating the Supreme Court being on the side of justice and decency and bitching about Hillary not going far enough left. A far more desirable outcome.

[phylny]

39. I'm not suggesting that President Obama only started the investigation after the loss.

In fact, I think he knew what was going on when this iconic picture was taken:

[img][/img]

You may well be right that the corruption would have been exposed. I wonder, though, if the energy from our side would have been sustained.

I don't recall how the senate might have been impacted.

[BlueTsunami2018]

48. I don't think Bob Mueller cares about energetic support.

And I also don’t know that Hillary Clinton would have gone easy on Тяцмр after what he did in that campaign. We as a political block may not have been as locked in on it as we are now because the sense of eminent destruction wouldn’t be there but I have no doubt that it would get a lot of play here nonetheless.

It would matter but not as much as it does now, for obvious reasons.

[AlexSFCA]

37. I thought about it too

Hilary would need house and senate majority to achieve anything because of gop hatred towards her - they vowed to block everything she comes up with. Without majority in the senate SC and federal judges nominations would be stalled for years. And it’s true 2018 would have been brutal for dems and guess what, trump would run in 2020 then and may have won so we would be back to square one. In these dire times we’re living, there is a silver lining in trumps presidency: women are waking up big time, racists are exposed like never before and are being punished whenever caught losing jobs. The need for universal healthcare is being made more obvious to the public at large, ridiculousness of gun laws is on full display, gop corruption is in the open for independents to see, etc. There is a possibility if we survive this, we may become stronger as a country (what doesnt kill us makes us stronger). But this would only work if trump and co are punished to the fullest extent of the law for their crimes. If there aren’t serious consequences for these people, then our best days are behind us.

[phylny]

40. Your post should have been my OP LOL

What you have written is what I was pondering. These are dire times, with so many people suffering, with our standing in the world being severely diminished. Oh, how far we've fallen.

I do believe we will survive this. I truly do.

[AlexSFCA]

45. I would also add - today I felt happy

perharps for the first time in trumps presidency. This is because the public at large including trump supporters and gop voters got to see what we have known here on DU for well over a year - trump has been committing treason against the US conspiring with putin. This is the first breakthrough moment. Baby jails did nothing to his ratings because his supporters loved the ‘strongman’. But today trump was weak on full display for the world to see - and this is not what many in his cult like to see. For the first time I beleive a portion (maybe 20+%) of trump supporters got dissapointed today. This in combination with trade wars. 80% would still be with trunp no matter what because those are die hars white supremacists so they don’t care about anything else. But chipping away even 20% from his base is significant.

[phylny]

47. Yes, I understand the sentiment.

I visited a friend tonight, and I told her I was more positive than I've ever been that we will prevail because of his idiocy today.

She did bring up a good point, that others have also discussed, and that is that we have no mechanism in place (other than voting in November) to undo all of the horrible things this administration has done. If the Russian involvement is so deep that they literally changed our votes, how do we overturn the laws, justices, and fix the damage?

One thing at a time.

[Locrian]

83. I think this is going to stick...

and resonate with even trump supporters after awhile.
trump looked weak next to putin. He looked like what he was: putins toy.

If there's one thing that the authoritarian magats can see - it's who looks more "macho". And it WAS NOT TRUMP.

[Initech]

38. You know after seeing the shit storm that's been unfolding the last two years...

I'm so glad it's happening on their side!

[phylny]

43. I can't ever imagine it happening on our side.

The GOP is corrupt to its very core.

[renegade000]

41. I know what you mean

The GOP would have called the FBI investigations proof that Clinton was a "tyrant", the cancer would have metastasized even more than it already had.

In 2020, the corrupt GOP would have run an actually competent person to destroy democracy.

[phylny]

44. Yes, unfortunately. This was my point. Others are saying it better than I. n/t

[lunamagica]

49. Lucky you that you can think this way because you belong to the group that will survive

What about those who will NOT survive?

You sound like Susan Sarandon. Who cares if the little people die!?

SHAME, SHAME, SHAME ON YOU!!!

[phylny]

68. Right. You know me, then?

Sure, I want suffering. I made this happen. It's all my fault.

[lunamagica]

109. Come on, don't start a thread like this and then act like a victim. I'm responding to what YOU wrote

[SammyWinstonJack]

50. You're of the "when life hands you lemons, make lemonade" persuasion, then?

Personally, I think we're all screwed and that includes the World. I'm making margaritas with those lemons, a better use I think.

[democratisphere]

52. What we have learned and now it has been confirmed;

America is one of the most corrupt and evil nations on Earth and there is little we can do to change that.

[BeyondGeography]

54. #MeToo would have been another nightmare

leading to endless re-runs of the Clenis Show.

I agree she would have been largely hamstrung by the R’s in Congress and vulnerable to a major enthusiasm gap this November because their media machine would have been playing offense and the MSM would have been more foe than friend. But we would have gotten Merrick Garland out of the deal (she’s a fighter and she would have figured out a way to get that one done), our alliances would be in much better shape, the shitetastic tax bill never would have happened, POC’s wouldn’t have been demonized, people in need wouldn’t have been as vulnerable, access to affordable health insurance would have been defended...the list goes on.

If there’s a lesson, maybe it’s avoid nominating people with very high negatives mostly because they’ve been around too long.

[phylny]

73. Excellent points all.

I wonder how much Russia affected the congressional elections. I hope that we have the best chance possible to have a democratic House and Senate since so many are energized.

I think, too, that it might come out that her perceived negatives had much less to do with her "loss" than Russian hacking. I can't believe the Russians didn't change votes somewhere. The margin of electoral college victory was so razor thin.

[RelativelyJones]

55. Horseshtt. By that logic we should have let power fall to the John Birchers, the McCarthyites and

the KKK in the 1950s. Would we be so much better off if that had happened?

[airmid]

56. Nope....why is 3 steps forward then 100 steps back a good thing? There is no way this is good in any

light. This nation is forever changed by this disaster. This treasonous behavior is becoming legitimized. There absolutely nothing good about this. We would have done just fine under Hillary Clinton. Even better...we would be thriving...

[Cha]

59. Thanks for bringing much needed

logic and a whole lot of optimism to this thread, airmid.

I'm sick of the doom and gloomers.. we have enough of that shite from the Russian overlords.

[Cha]

58. I've heard Enough. Boo Hoo on all the Doom and Gloomers if

russia hadn't stole our election with the assistance of the enablers like stein and SS's LIES.

Dreaming up all these fantasies of how bad if would be if trump hadn't committed treason and colluded with russia. That's just sad to be so sure it would have been awful either way.

Hell NO. We would have a Country that is the USofAmerica.. Not some GD subsidiary of russia.

[kcr]

60. This is just handwringing and speculation.

Go with what we do know. It's a fact that Hillary would have been a far better president, a competent president. It is a fact that Trump is a disaster. The GOP can always be counted on to be ruinous. So, I really don't see how a careful analysis concludes that Trump being elected was the better outcome. It seems to rely on assumptions that the GOP somehow calculate their strategy based on outcomes. They don't. To begin with, our two-party government naturally encourages obstruction, and they take up that challenge with gusto, every time. It is never a good outcome when they're in charge.

[phylny]

69. I actually don't think it's a better outcome.

I just think the corruption would not have been exposed.

[kcr]

76. Based on what?

Is something somehow different when the Dems are in power that has a magical cloaking power for crooks? Or are you suggesting something nefarious about Dems? I don't get your point.

[phylny]

85. I guess I'm being unclear. Not unusual for me, I suppose.

I take no glee, have no happiness, with the outcome. There is no magic. I think Hillary Clinton would have made one of the best presidents in my lifetime and was highly qualified (I think Obama was the best). I also think the horror of Trump has given rise to more energy, more attention, less complacency. The "blue wave" is the result of that horror. Younger people, having seen how fucked up we are now, are energized and active. Mid-term elections have seen greater numbers voting. Democratic candidates are out-performing their Republican counterparts in record numbers. The evil of this president and administration is being exposed. Republican politicians are quitting in droves and some Republican citizens and pundits are denouncing their party.

I guess that's what I mean. Would I rather Hillary were elected (and I think she was)? Yes. Would we have had the energy going forward instead of complacency? I don't think we would have.

[obamanut2012]

61. Nice to come from such a place of privilege you can write that OP with a straight face

I am gay and a woman, so fuck that.

[phylny]

70. Good thing you know all about me, then. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

62. I can appreciate that

However, Preet Bharara would have never been fired. Coney would not have been fired either.

It would have come out - Trump would have already been indicted, and Garland would be on SCOTUS.

[phylny]

71. Good points all. n/t

[Afromania]

64. This didn't need to happen, it shouldn't have happened.

The right minority would have had its electoral minority rule stranglehold broken by the mid 20's when either Florida or Texas came on a light blue state. Now it will happen sooner but we have the additional weight of cleaning up the worst republican mess ever and playing catch up in almost every area a country can. While this whole thing will result in the biggest debugging Democracy has ever had. It simply just isn't worth the horror show we are going through. Maybe in the far flung future historians may point to it as some sort of political awakening for the masses, of course that remains to be seen.

[BumRushDaShow]

65. ...

[beachbum bob]

66. utter non-sense, the damage that trump has done and will do will effect US for decades

sheer nonsense....my money is on this is Jill Stein supporter or a "bernie bro" type.

[phylny]

72. LOL. I'm neither a Bernie nor a Jill Stein supporter.

All my money and energy went to Hillary's campaign.

But thanks for playing.

[beachbum bob]

75. some type of apologists to make this mess sound acceptable as if we need to be taught a lesson

[phylny]

91. There is nothing acceptable about this corruption or this president. n/t

[DeminPennswoods]

67. We saw this same script play out with Bill Clinton

when the GOP took over in 1994 and later the nonsense with Obama. Amazingly, the GOP has only gotten crazier over the past couple of years. Had Hillary won, the Clinton hate and conspiracy machine would've been revved up again, but on steroids. Heck, she's not even president and is still a central figure in the GOP playbook.

What we're experiencing now as a country is awful, but it is the reckoning that has been coming for over 50 years since the inception of Nixon's "southern strategy" based on dividing Americans by race and class. Maybe even since the end of the Civil War.

The good news is the blowback from yesterday's presser has been ferocious. I think it's shocked plenty of previously more sanguine Americans awake. The word treason is being openly used! The pieces are all starting to fall into place and once the American co-conspirators are named, we will know everything. The GOP will be dead for a generation or more and out of the ashes will arise a better, more just America. Just like after Watergate and the many other tramatic times in our history.

[roscoeroscoe]

77. Sorry, no

The suffering of so many.

[phylny]

80. I agree, many are suffering. More to come, unfortunately.

I think the suffering under the corruption and evil that's being exposed may never have been exposed. What's now being exposed now has worldwide attention. I could be wrong, and I accept that. I take my pleasure in our current situation. I haven't gone to sleep or woken up peacefully since the election.

[johnp3907]

79. Sarandan? Is that you?

Suzie Saranwrap, what’s got into you???

[phylny]

81. I think, if I remember, she actively campaigned against Hillary

while I actively campaigned FOR her.

[Tipperary]

82. No. This is a nightmare.

It is damaging the country.

[phylny]

87. I agree with you. It's horrible.

People are being hurt everywhere. I wish it were different. I worked for it to be different.

The corruption, in my view, would not have been as widely exposed.

[Wwcd]

86. Whew!! We sure dodged a bullet didn't we!!

[EffieBlack]

88. I see your point but disagree strongly

You're right that Hillary and the country would have been besieged with attacks and investigations and obstruction. But in the meantime she would also be getting some things done - probably not as much as we'd like, but important things nevertheless - we wouldn't have had the outrageous tax bill and other horrid legislation, and we would not be watching a Supreme Court lurch to the right for a generation, children being ripped away from their parents, Muslim bans, degradation of the environment, etc.

No, it didn't have to be this way for us to survive.

[Squinch]

92. I have, at moments, wondered this. But the thing is that if

Hillary was able to take her win, while its true that legislatively and publicly it would have been a shit show, the second line would have been at work for us instead if Putin.

I agree that she would have been hounded mercilessly, and it us logical to question how much she would have been allowed to get past a Republican Congress.

But that second line would have been able to shore us up against the tsunami if corruption we are experiencing. The danger right now is that we are overrun by this corruption, they fix elections going forward, and their pets in the courts back them up.

That wouldn't have happened under her.

[warrior1]

93. bullshit

[romana]

94. No

The scandal du jour the GOP would dish up in a Hillary Clinton presidency is nothing compared to what we are seeing. People are suffering under Trump. This isn't an abstract intellectual exercise at this point. Real harm is being done. There is no silver lining.

[PoliticAverse]

96. I'm rejecting your argument that it's a good thing that Trump is President.

This is not to say some good things haven't happened (indictments).

[Dave Starsky]

97. Hillary would have been impeached long ago.

For using the wrong fork at a state dinner.

[NewJeffCT]

98. If Clinton had won

It likely would have meant that Russia would have had much less influence overall on the elections. If that was the case, it likely means a Russ Feingold win in Wisconsin, Pat Toomey loses in PA, and Democrats pick up an additional 10 or 15 seats in the House. So, Tim Kaine is the tie breaker in the Senate (or Dems have a 51-49 advantage if they manage to win NC or FL) and Republicans have a very narrow House majority.

So, with a narrow senate majority, Clinton appoints a respected and reliably liberal woman to the court in place of Garland. Anthony Kennedy does NOT retire, though Ruth Bader Ginsberg does retire. RBG is replaced by another reliably liberal woman.

The hurricane that hits Puerto Rico is devastating, but Clinton does a great job handling the aftermath and gets a bipartisan agreement to help rebuild the Commonwealth.

Children are not put in cages. No trade wars are started - Harley Davidson still makes motorcycles in the US. Dow Jones is around 30,000.

A special counsel is appointed to review the issue of the NRA and Russian money laundering.

[Duppers]

102. Yes!!! Thank you! 👍

[VOX]

106. A reality-based scenario.

Thank you!

[Wwcd]

110. Thank you.

100 fair & humanitarian minded Federal judges would be appointed.

Instead we have watched hard right KKKristian judges fill those spots for life.

Thanks to those who quickly bought the 24/7 Kremlin informercial scam.
"Hurry! This deal Won't Last Long"!! they said.

[NewJeffCT]

112. good point on the judges

that may be the biggest long-term problem for the US, as some of these judges could be there for upwards of 40 years or more.

[betsuni]

99. Republicans would've been extremely happy if Hillary won, as they were during Obama's term.

All they do is declare war against Democrats and don't know what to do when actually in charge. They are not happy now.

I have no idea why you say "it had to be this way for us to survive."

[ms liberty]

100. I agree with you, more or less

Had Hillary taken office, the GOP would have never let her govern and would have spent all their time blocking everything and investigating her. They would certainly have tried to impeach her, and may have succeeded. It would have been so much worse than the way they acted during Obama's terms. They have hated and demonized her for 25 years, and have a portion of the country brainwashed about her. They have the media primed to consider anything Hillary as a circus to be exploited for ratings and entertainment.

You may be right that all of the Russian/GOP/Trump treason stuff may not have come out. I'm not sure, but I'm still not sure it's all going to come out now either.

I would still rather she had taken office, but that isn't what happened, and we need to move past it. We can't change that, it is over. For better or worse, there's only one way to go now, and it's forward.

The knee jerk reactions up thread, well it is exactly what can be expected from some DU'ers. Particularly those DU'ers who seem to be stuck in a place that won't allow them to move forward.

[Duppers]

101. Immigrant children, jobs, the economy, international

Relationships gone. The damage may take a decade or two to repair. Some children and parents may never find each other.

We have to ask "at what price?"
The Civil War killed one out of every 50 people living in the country - some still debate its necessity.

I'm fence sitting on the necessity of Trump's presidency. It's full damage has yet to be fully accessed and it's not yet over.



I am enjoying a "told-you-so" with a rethugian neighbor...but he'll never change parties.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

103. Trashing thread

[Demonaut]

104. wtf?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

105. Nope

I cannot endorse this message. The Republicans would have been insufferable towards Hillary for sure but we'd still be in a lot better place right now- in multiple ways.

[jcgoldie]

107. Bullshit

Yeah we needed to elect literally the worst person on the planet and allow him to destroy American international relations including all of our longstanding alliances, commit grievous domestic crimes like putting kids in cages, embolden racists and misogynists to come out into the light everywhere, wreck the debt by giving away everything to the rich and corporations, turn the EPA into an instrument for destroying the earth, oh and choose two fuckstick conservative judges who will be with us for a generation on the SCOTUS... all so we could avoid ""Benghazi type investigations of HRC" (which she seemed to handle just fine btw. What a moronic concept.

Oh and sorry but fuck that Lord's Prayer too.

[VOX]

108. Letting the sick patient die in hopes of a resurrection is not a viable treatment.

Metaphorically speaking.

[MineralMan]

111. Yeah? Well, screw that noise. Sounds like a Steinism to me.

You let me know when we have actually survived, OK?

[workinclasszero]

113. You realize that the traitor is packing SCOTUS with right wing fanatics

that will have a MAJOR impact on the political life of this country for DECADES....long after Traitor Trump collects his reward in hell, right?

[aikoaiko]

115. Too soon. Too soon.