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orangecrush

(19,492 posts)
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 06:08 PM Jul 2018

They are NORMALIZING TREASON TODAY

A quick Google search today shows a number of news sources with headlines stating that what Trump did with Putin is not treason, including a couple I wouldn't have expected it from.


From Newsweek -

"Laurence Tribe, the Carl M. Loeb University professor and a professor of constitutional law at Harvard Law School, told Newsweek: "If one defines war to include cyberwar—e.g., by deliberately hacking into a nation’s computer-based election infrastructure—then what we witnessed in Helsinki was President Trump openly aiding and abetting the Russian military’s ongoing war against America rather than protecting against that Putin-led cyber-invasion.

"That, in turn, could reasonably be defined as treason within the meaning of 18 USC § 2381 and Article III of the U.S. Constitution.

"Some scholars would resist that modern definition as one the authors of the Constitution could not have contemplated, and others would insist on limiting the definition to situations involving a state of formally declared war, but views like Brennan’s are far from wild," said Tribe."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/did-trump-commit-treason-putin-meeting-heres-what-lawyers-say-1027643%3famp=1

This article does give opposing viewpoints, saying more or less that it depends on who you ask.

However, the Daily Beast's Jay Michaelson chides us...

Stop Saying Trump Committed ‘Treason’


"Critics of President Trump need to stop saying the word “treason.” Whatever is going on between Trump and Russia, calling it “treason” is factually incorrect and politically counterproductive."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thedailybeast.com/stop-saying-trump-committed-treason-youre-playing-into-his-hands


To which I say, STOP PLAYING FUCKING WATERBOY TO PUT OUT THE FIRES OF OUTRAGE FOR A TRAITOROUS, DERANGED MONSTER who is destroying this country.

YOU CAN NOT NORMALIZE TREASON!!!!

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
They are NORMALIZING TREASON TODAY (Original Post) orangecrush Jul 2018 OP
The spin machine has been given a squirt of Wd-40 and BigmanPigman Jul 2018 #1
With a helping boost orangecrush Jul 2018 #4
I won't be reading The Daily Beast anymore donkeypoofed Jul 2018 #2
Usually they are spot on orangecrush Jul 2018 #6
You could call him a quisling... oxbow Jul 2018 #3
Thank you! orangecrush Jul 2018 #5
Yeah I noticed. triron Jul 2018 #7
Thanks. orangecrush Jul 2018 #9
Now that he is gone I will say it... lame54 Jul 2018 #8
... orangecrush Jul 2018 #10
I think it an interesting question whether what we have is legally treason. TomSlick Jul 2018 #11
Traitor orangecrush Jul 2018 #14
Compromised people are coming out of the woodwork Generic Brad Jul 2018 #12
Case in point... orangecrush Jul 2018 #13
I agree. It is treason, and we need to be introducing Articles of Impeachment PatrickforO Jul 2018 #15
Traitorous Treacherous Treasonous Trump nt progree Jul 2018 #16
+1000 triron Jul 2018 #27
No, it's treason.... paleotn Jul 2018 #17
+1 orangecrush Jul 2018 #26
If Trump had merely stretched out the welcome mat to Russia and initiated a Sophia4 Jul 2018 #18
Giving aid and comfort to the enemy. calimary Jul 2018 #19
Right! Sophia4 Jul 2018 #20
Trump has enraged the entire free world. orangecrush Jul 2018 #24
Well said! orangecrush Jul 2018 #25
Yes, they are normalizing treason. We cannot let them. Ever. ancianita Jul 2018 #21
Agree! orangecrush Jul 2018 #23
The Normalization of treason started with Nixon elmac Jul 2018 #22
It started with Gerald Ford, who granted a full and unconditional pardon to Nixon of all crimes ancianita Jul 2018 #28
No one can 'normalize' treason. elleng Jul 2018 #29
any crime can be normalized in a fascist state elmac Jul 2018 #30

oxbow

(2,034 posts)
3. You could call him a quisling...
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 06:45 PM
Jul 2018

But how many people know what that word means? He is putting his own interests over that of the country, the word you use to describe that is secondary.

orangecrush

(19,492 posts)
9. Thanks.
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 07:08 PM
Jul 2018

The fire has been lit, we must keep it burning, despite the efforts of some, misguided or otherwise.

lame54

(35,277 posts)
8. Now that he is gone I will say it...
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 06:56 PM
Jul 2018

I like Papa Johns pizza - I've enjoyed it many times
After he showed who he really is I stopped ordering it
After that it became the mantra that their pizza is shit
Although I disagree I wasn't about to spend the energy to defend the company
If you think Trump shouldn't be prez don't try to show you're the smartest guy in the room by pointing out what you see as technically wrong(you're no expert)
Just keep your mouth shut and let Trump fight his way out of the mess he created

TomSlick

(11,096 posts)
11. I think it an interesting question whether what we have is legally treason.
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 07:13 PM
Jul 2018

However, I am uncomfortable with an enlargement of the definition of treason for purposes of the crime. However, there should be no debate that we are facing rhetorical treason - betraying one's country.

Crime of treason? Maybe not. Tre45on? Absolutely.

Generic Brad

(14,274 posts)
12. Compromised people are coming out of the woodwork
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 07:39 PM
Jul 2018

Keep paying attention to who defends him. They are outing themselves in real time.

PatrickforO

(14,566 posts)
15. I agree. It is treason, and we need to be introducing Articles of Impeachment
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 07:52 PM
Jul 2018

weekly.

I'm sick of the bullshit. We have an incompetent, utterly corrupt, treasonous president and we need him out now.

paleotn

(17,901 posts)
17. No, it's treason....
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 08:31 PM
Jul 2018

An American political party co-opted to support and defend a foreign power to the detriment of the US democracy is by any account treason. This the same as the much of the medias trouble with the word....lie. Even when what they're talking about is blatant, willful lies.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
18. If Trump had merely stretched out the welcome mat to Russia and initiated a
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 08:37 PM
Jul 2018

friendly relationship, it would not be treason.

The problem is that the Russians interfered in our election by committing various kinds of cybercrimes against us. In effect, they crossed our border in order to interfere in our election. It's a cyberborder, but it is a border anyway.

In addition, the Russians stole e-mails from the campaign of one candidate in our election specifically in order to help the other candidate.

The Russians may also have committed many other crimes during our election.

Yet, without condemning Russia or obtaining any kind of acknowledgment from Russia of this criminal behavior, of these transgressions against our country, Trump embraced Russia and Putin.

That is treason whether it is an act of war or not.

Trump gave aid and comfort to an enemy, a cyber-enemy, but an enemy that damaged American citizens and our election process.

Any qualified president would either have avoided dealing with Putin or strongly and publicly reprimanded him.

Trump did neither.

He should be tried for treason. Let's see what the facts show.

calimary

(81,179 posts)
19. Giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 08:44 PM
Jul 2018

Sure as hell sounds like the definition of treason to me.

Figure it this way: what do you suppose it would be called if Hillary had done all these things? Or even some of these things? Or if not Hillary then President Obama? What word would you guess would be used then?

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
22. The Normalization of treason started with Nixon
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 09:06 PM
Jul 2018

interfering with peace talks to make Johnson look bad before the 68 election. Reagan did the same with Iran, its a long repug tradition.

ancianita

(36,009 posts)
28. It started with Gerald Ford, who granted a full and unconditional pardon to Nixon of all crimes
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 11:18 PM
Jul 2018

he committed against the US, as were going to be proven during his impeachment, and which he would have been indicted for, if not for Ford.

Johnson wasn't impeached for breaking the War Powers Act, probably because both houses of congress had a Democratic supermajority.

Normalizing has historically worsened with each administration's proven, yet ignored, crimes.

That we haven't raised more hell is not our fault.

elleng

(130,825 posts)
29. No one can 'normalize' treason.
Tue Jul 17, 2018, 11:41 PM
Jul 2018

It's not an easy crime to define or prosecute, but in ordinary terms, what he's done IS treason IN FACT.

the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

the action of betraying someone or something.

the offense of attempting to overthrow the government of one's country or of assisting its enemies in war; specifically : the act of levying war against the United States or adhering to or giving aid and comfort to its enemies by one who owes it allegiance.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
30. any crime can be normalized in a fascist state
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 12:02 AM
Jul 2018

Hitler did it quite successfully. tRump fascists, given time, can be just as devastating to this country as Nazis were to germany.

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