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RandySF

(58,693 posts)
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:38 PM Jul 2018

Democrats Cut Way Back on Caucus States

A quiet but significant shift across a handful of states could reshape the Democratic nominating process ahead of 2020: The party is now poised to see a historic reduction in the number of states that use caucuses over primaries to pick a presidential nominee.

By next year, Democrats could see the number of caucus states cut in half.

Four states have already moved from a caucus system to a traditional primary: Maine, Minnesota, Colorado, and, as of last month, Idaho made the switch. Party officials say two more states — Nebraska and Washington — are now considering the same change. And as Democratic Party members prepare to adopt changes to the nominating process at their annual summer meeting next month — including a new rule to “encourage” the use of primaries over caucuses “whenever possible” — caucus states may face new outside pressure to embrace state-run primaries.

The shift could leave just seven caucus states on the nominating calendar. For more than 20 years, Democrats have held caucuses in no fewer than 14 states.



https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/caucuses-primaries-democrats-unity-commission

69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Democrats Cut Way Back on Caucus States (Original Post) RandySF Jul 2018 OP
GOOD Iliyah Jul 2018 #1
Good JustAnotherGen Jul 2018 #2
The 2016 Democratic Primary would have gone much differently. Garrett78 Jul 2018 #3
Hillary would have won the nomination by an even bigger margin. DavidDvorkin Jul 2018 #6
Yeah, it would have been an epic blowout. Garrett78 Jul 2018 #7
Yep DavidDvorkin Jul 2018 #12
Not necessarily RandySF Jul 2018 #11
He won 7 primaries outside of New England. Garrett78 Jul 2018 #21
Those other 6 were later and by that time results might have been different. LiberalFighter Jul 2018 #63
In addition to getting rid of caucuses, I'd like to change which states vote first. Garrett78 Jul 2018 #65
Hillary would have been elected president in 2008 Awsi Dooger Jul 2018 #30
Probably, but Obama's advisers devised a strategy based on the realities way ahead of time stevenleser Jul 2018 #55
Very good news peggysue2 Jul 2018 #4
we still caucus in wash state and i have not seen any news anywhere about changing it.. samnsara Jul 2018 #5
You probably attended a well-run site RandySF Jul 2018 #9
Many people aren't able or inclined to take part in a very long and very public caucus process. Garrett78 Jul 2018 #10
Exactly RandySF Jul 2018 #23
Yeah, well, Bernie won the caucuses, but Hillary won the actual primary votes... Wounded Bear Jul 2018 #14
FYI: Caucuses are disenfranchising for most working people, students... brush Jul 2018 #15
They do seem fun and interesting but they disenfranchise folks who can't attend oberliner Jul 2018 #52
Good sheshe2 Jul 2018 #8
Great news! UtahLib Jul 2018 #13
Good... SidDithers Jul 2018 #16
closed primaries w/registered dems only. nt msongs Jul 2018 #17
I'm 1000% in support of closed primaries. LiberalFighter Jul 2018 #64
Great news GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #18
Very good news, thanks. Bad news for takeover Hortensis Jul 2018 #19
Caucuses are not democratic and are easy to game Gothmog Jul 2018 #20
After watching C-SPAN's live airing of a caucus held in Iowa during the 2004 campaign... JaneQPublic Jul 2018 #22
And an embarrassment in 2016 RandySF Jul 2018 #24
Iowa is unique in that the votes are public question everything Jul 2018 #28
Hm. Caucuses are what allow small, underfunded, disciplined campaigns to have a chance Recursion Jul 2018 #25
So many voters are totally disenfranchised by them is why. Least democratic way to go.... bettyellen Jul 2018 #33
Yes, but "democratic" means the campaign with the most money wins, for the most part Recursion Jul 2018 #35
So change campaign funding laws. But people being known more because they're been around longer- bettyellen Jul 2018 #38
Keep in mind I sometimes lean towards bringing back smoke-filled rooms Recursion Jul 2018 #57
The best we can do is let ALL the voters cast their vote instead of a small subset bettyellen Jul 2018 #59
I think I remember that one too Recursion Jul 2018 #60
Yes, and part of it is the public's distribution for "insiders" making deals - assuming its corrupt bettyellen Jul 2018 #61
Here is the article! bettyellen Jul 2018 #62
Primaries support your own theory more. NCTraveler Jul 2018 #69
The motivation? GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #50
The parties' calendar reforms are aimed at that goal. Jim Lane Jul 2018 #58
Oh yes, please! question everything Jul 2018 #26
Another move forward to a fair election. lunasun Jul 2018 #27
Can't abolish caucuses fast enough. We've seen candidates in the past democratisphere Jul 2018 #29
I have a fondness for the caucus. PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2018 #31
You think our days end with our work shift? RandySF Jul 2018 #34
Oh, I know. PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2018 #45
I get your point... we'll taken. InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2018 #48
And what about those who work odd times? RandySF Jul 2018 #43
Those who work odd times are often in a PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2018 #46
Good, they encourage some ugly entitled behavior. One person one vote. bettyellen Jul 2018 #32
Caucuses are anti-democratic. Closed Primaries Only. MarcA Jul 2018 #36
No more chair throwing. :) RandySF Jul 2018 #37
Good One! Seen events at caucuses that would put WWE to shame. n/t MarcA Jul 2018 #39
And over the dumbest rules proposals. RandySF Jul 2018 #40
Way to go Democratic Party. oasis Jul 2018 #41
Bloody Excellent!! Cha Jul 2018 #42
Excellent! skylucy Jul 2018 #44
GOOD Hekate Jul 2018 #47
This is excellent news. I hope they do away with the remaining caucuses before 2020. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2018 #49
YES MFM008 Jul 2018 #51
The DNC should declare that by 2024 no delegates from caucus states will be counted Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #53
Also stops infiltration from certain groups wanting to disrupt. one person, one vote all the way. sunonmars Jul 2018 #54
Good news! Scurrilous Jul 2018 #56
Good first step. rogue emissary Jul 2018 #66
Get rid of *ALL* caucuses! UTUSN Jul 2018 #67
Nice! Nero Mero Jul 2018 #68

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
7. Yeah, it would have been an epic blowout.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:46 PM
Jul 2018

Sanders would have had a much tougher time justifying his staying in the race.

DavidDvorkin

(19,473 posts)
12. Yep
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:49 PM
Jul 2018

And maybe as a result we'd be hearing less from him and his supporters now.

Well, it's a nice dream, anyway.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
21. He won 7 primaries outside of New England.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 03:04 PM
Jul 2018

And 1 of those 7 was Michigan, where he won by 1.4% (it's quite possible he only won MI because of cross-over voting). The other 6 were OK, WI, IN, WV, OR and MT.

With higher turnout (and, thus, greater diversity), Sanders was not suited for primaries regardless of strategy.

LiberalFighter

(50,830 posts)
63. Those other 6 were later and by that time results might have been different.
Fri Jul 20, 2018, 05:21 PM
Jul 2018

Iowa and Nevada both need to get rid of caucuses.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
65. In addition to getting rid of caucuses, I'd like to change which states vote first.
Fri Jul 20, 2018, 05:36 PM
Jul 2018

Traditions are hard to break, but neither IA nor NH are remotely representative of the Democratic electorate. Yet they carry a lot of weight by being first.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
30. Hillary would have been elected president in 2008
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:39 AM
Jul 2018

Obama's handlers understood the caucus process and delegate aspect light years beyond Hillary's bonehead decision to prioritize the Par 5 states.

Any Democrat cruises in 2008.

Then we follow with charismatic unblemished Obama in the more difficult environment of 2016.

Trump never happens

Nate Silver happened because he grasped 2008 the caucus delegate realities as "Poblano" far beyond anyone else.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
55. Probably, but Obama's advisers devised a strategy based on the realities way ahead of time
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 07:04 AM
Jul 2018

If the caucuses had not been reality, they could very well have come up with a strategy to compete in the primaries that HRC's folks would be moot since they planned to sew up the nomination early that year.

samnsara

(17,615 posts)
5. we still caucus in wash state and i have not seen any news anywhere about changing it..
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:45 PM
Jul 2018

...im a bit confused as to why a primary is preferred. Other than last time when a few young kids green to the process and tried to bully their voices into being heard over the others, the caucuses are really kind of fun and interesting. Its not simply, robotically, marking an X on a piece of paper and putting in the mailbox (we are all mail in)….there is discussion and conversation and actual thinking going on. Its pretty interesting.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
10. Many people aren't able or inclined to take part in a very long and very public caucus process.
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:47 PM
Jul 2018

Caucuses are disenfranchising.

RandySF

(58,693 posts)
23. Exactly
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:23 AM
Jul 2018

A caucus site can be rigged by finding a small room and getting certain supporters there early.

Wounded Bear

(58,624 posts)
14. Yeah, well, Bernie won the caucuses, but Hillary won the actual primary votes...
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:50 PM
Jul 2018

Caucuses don't make a lot of sense in heavy population areas. Not enough floor space to fit them in and be inclusive, and too easy for a vocal minority to overwhelm the process.

I'm not real happy with how several things are done in our state, and caucuses are high on the list of things I'd like to change.

brush

(53,759 posts)
15. FYI: Caucuses are disenfranchising for most working people, students...
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:50 PM
Jul 2018

stay at home moms and others who don't have the time to spend the hours it takes to participate in a caucus.

I've done both and prefer a primary as you can schedule your time to go and vote before work, during lunch or after work.

You spend 15-20 minutes at a primary as opposed to hours at a caucus.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
18. Great news
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:52 PM
Jul 2018

Caucuses have no place in our party. They are inherently unfair to the poor and marginalized. And since minority’s are more marginalized that white Americans it unfairly impacts their ability to choose our candidates.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
19. Very good news, thanks. Bad news for takeover
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:52 PM
Jul 2018

ambitions of Putin, Koch types, extremists and hostiles of all types of course. Shrinks one weakness, anyway. What was it, 3% or 6%? of state voters who participate in these on average?

Gothmog

(145,047 posts)
20. Caucuses are not democratic and are easy to game
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 02:57 PM
Jul 2018

Texas had to give up the caucus portion of the Texas Two Step in 2016

JaneQPublic

(7,113 posts)
22. After watching C-SPAN's live airing of a caucus held in Iowa during the 2004 campaign...
Wed Jul 18, 2018, 03:36 PM
Jul 2018

...I've been totally against caucuses.

What a dog & pony show!

People bartering and dealing with voters to get them to come stand with a different candidate's group.

It was like some really lame parlor game.

AND it went on for HOURS!

Seriously, it does disenfranchise anyone who has an evening job, or can't afford a sitter for an entire evening, or has to study for class the next day, and on and on.

People shouldn't have to go through that to vote.

question everything

(47,460 posts)
28. Iowa is unique in that the votes are public
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:34 AM
Jul 2018

As you've observed, supporters of each candidate congregate in different parts of the room thus your neighbors, your boss, your family member know who you are rooting for.

And to think that this system determines the nominee..

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
25. Hm. Caucuses are what allow small, underfunded, disciplined campaigns to have a chance
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:28 AM
Jul 2018

Not sure what the motivation behind this move is.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
35. Yes, but "democratic" means the campaign with the most money wins, for the most part
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:47 AM
Jul 2018

The point of the caucus is that it rewards the sort of ground game a campaign needs to develop: can you get the right people to the right places with the right instructions?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
38. So change campaign funding laws. But people being known more because they're been around longer-
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:53 AM
Jul 2018

(As I’ve seen some complain about) It’s a double edged sword - sometimes it’s bad, and most times the rep is earned. But yeah, the money thing is important to fix- we don’t need work around a like undemocratic caucuses.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
57. Keep in mind I sometimes lean towards bringing back smoke-filled rooms
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 07:20 AM
Jul 2018

Sans actual smoke nowadays, obviously. But I think party candidate selection doesn't have any guarantee of being democratic.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
59. The best we can do is let ALL the voters cast their vote instead of a small subset
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 12:24 PM
Jul 2018

I’d read something a while back arguing to bring back those rooms- to increase bipartisanship and general deal making without the public watching in judgement if every move. Pragmatic me agrees, people need to realize everyone is working largely from self interest and deals aren’t inherently bad. I think it was in the Atlantic?
Wish I could find it.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
60. I think I remember that one too
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:09 PM
Jul 2018

But cannot for the life of me find it. IIRC the other argument was that the smoke-filled room is another safeguard against a Trump-like figure.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
61. Yes, and part of it is the public's distribution for "insiders" making deals - assuming its corrupt
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:36 PM
Jul 2018

When in reality the system was built for some compromise and horse trading. I think the article was about the rise of the “outsider” in politics? Let me look for it.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
69. Primaries support your own theory more.
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 05:49 PM
Jul 2018

Primaries are more representative of the general. Winning a primary would show you have a more competitive ground game with respect to the big show.

Apples and oranges.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
50. The motivation?
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:31 AM
Jul 2018

To allow the poor and marginilized the same voice as people privileged enough to spend a couple of hours of a weeknight advocating for their candidate. And no way should a candidate with a ‘small’ number of fanatically loyal supporters be allowed to beat a candidate with a large number of supporters who can’t make it to a meeting.

Same reason we should vote on a weekend and everyone should get time off to vote.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
58. The parties' calendar reforms are aimed at that goal.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 11:25 AM
Jul 2018

Some people call for a single national primary, which would indeed totally screw the campaigns that are initially small and underfunded.

The current rule in each major party is that the process will begin with voting (be it caucus or primary) in four small states, one in each geographic region of the country: Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada. Other states, recognizing that voting early tends to give them more influence, see a value in moving up their contests, but the parties have generally been able to curb this tendency toward front-loading. For 2020, it's likely that no state other than those four will vote before March 1.

That isn't a perfect solution, but it at least offers some hope to a campaign that starts off small and underfunded but that can gain support over time. I think that's better than relying on caucuses.

The problem with the system is that it's always (at least for the foreseeable future) the same four states that start off. This gives them an unfair advantage. For example, some commentators believe that the prominence of Iowa, which grows a lot of corn, has been a factor in the government's promotion of ethanol, because candidates feel compelled to support ethanol or risk being hurt in the crucial Iowa caucuses.

It would be better to have something like a series of regional primaries (some "regions" might be only a single state), with the order of them rotating from cycle to cycle. Given how Iowa will fight to keep the first contest, and New Hampshire will fight to keep the first primary, there's virtually no chance that this will happen.

question everything

(47,460 posts)
26. Oh yes, please!
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:30 AM
Jul 2018

It is not only that if one cannot attend it - and in many states caucus takes place during a cold winter night - one is denied a vote. it is that delegates to the party convention are selected from caucus attendees.

And, at least until recently, many candidates promised to "abide" by the party endorsement, making the following primary a rubber stamp.

So this year, in Minnesota, the flood gates are open and many ignore the endorsements to run in the primary. This include also... DNC Deputy Chair Keith Ellison.


On edit: Minnesota eliminates the caucuses for presidential candidates, but still exist for all other offices.

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
29. Can't abolish caucuses fast enough. We've seen candidates in the past
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:35 AM
Jul 2018

abuse caucus manipulation for their own warped gain.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,839 posts)
31. I have a fondness for the caucus.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:40 AM
Jul 2018

I've been to them in more than one state, and the close contact with other Democrats is something that shouldn't be lost. Yes, I understand that anyone not available in that relatively short time frame is left out (but all of you who enthusiastically advocate that Election Day be a national holiday don't get it that a significant number of people will NOT be off work that day) and so I concede that a primary is more fair. But maybe there is a way to bridge the gap. Just like there will always be those who do shift work, who will be working during those hours all of you with a normal office job are off -- and who take happy advantage of us because you shop or go to a restaurant or call the police or go to the ER -- and understand that unless the caucus/primary/election day is at least 24 hours (and that last, Election Day, in states that have no early voting) get it that not all of us work daylight with weekends and holidays off.

Again, I personally love a caucus. Depending on the state, they tend to be on a weekend and often in the early evening, so those of you who work "normal" hours have no complaints. So I honestly don't get the beef here.

RandySF

(58,693 posts)
34. You think our days end with our work shift?
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:46 AM
Jul 2018

Or weekends are free just because we might not have work? Do caucus site have people with day care centers or homework tutors as we bring our kids along on a school night? How about elder care for the parents we may be raking care of? Can you see how caucuses favor certain groups of people?

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,839 posts)
45. Oh, I know.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:44 AM
Jul 2018

I especially know because most of my working life I've done shift work. And because of that I'm very aware of the bias against those who do not work a normal day job. I see it most clearly in the suggestions that Election Day be a national holiday, as if every person in the country would have that day off. Trust me, the Election Day sales would keep every single retail employee working at least 12 hours, if not more, on Election Day, as if no one works on the weekends or on other holidays. I've spent my entire working life working weekends and holidays, and I can get a bit resentful of those who work daylight with weekends off, as we used to put it. Oh, and holidays. When I was an airline employee we NEVER got holidays off (remember, you were flying somewhere and expected the planes to operate?). I worked 50 weeks a year. The other two weeks were my vacation. I NEVER got an extra day off for a holiday. Never. Think about it. Think about those three day weekends you get if you have a normal office job. I never got those.

But that's not the point.

The first time I came up against a caucus was in Colorado in 1988. The local caucus was down the street from us, and my husband went there while I stayed home with our two children, 4years and 6 months old. After a while he called me to say that we were welcome, I could come and bring the kids. So I participated. While in my opinion my kids were very well behaved, I knew that not everyone would agree with me. And so I was amazed and grateful that we could show up with the kids. Perhaps the fact that this was a Democratic Party caucus mattered?

After the caucus, my husband and I both became delegates to the local convention. Jefferson County, Colorado. The convention site had babysitters so we could bring the kids and they'd be taken care of. Wow. Exactly as it should be.

This is exactly what should happen, caucus, primary, whatever. People have young children. Babies. Real life makes it difficult to mind them or to take them along, which I remember very well.

I want to emphasize that what I like about the caucus process is the interaction between those there. Different opinions are presented and discussed. People get to consider differing points of view. Maybe there should be a caucus system that takes place over 24 or more hours, so that those with different work/life schedules can participate in that discussion.

In a primary, you simply go to the polling place and vote for your candidate. Nice, but no interaction or discussion with those supporting another candidate. If you've never had the chance to participate in a caucus, you can't understand that difference. You and I and all who read this post are very used to and comfortable with going to a polling place and voting for our preferred candidate. I cherish those caucuses where we got to present our views on our preferred candidates, and explain why we (and by we I mean anyone who was there) thought one candidate was a better choice than another. That was retail politics at its best.

RandySF

(58,693 posts)
43. And what about those who work odd times?
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:00 AM
Jul 2018

Do we tell them tough luck? I remember a number of hotel/casino employees in Nevada had to return to work without voting.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,839 posts)
46. Those who work odd times are often in a
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:53 AM
Jul 2018

better place to attend a caucus, depending on when it's held. And how long it lasts.

Trust me, I've worked shift work almost my entire working life, and while there are things I liked about it (such as being able to show up at odd times for various things), there are other things I did not like, such as NEVER getting a holiday off. And never getting an extra day in lieu of the holiday.

Here's my essential point, as someone who has participated in caucuses and has really liked them: the interaction that occurs in a caucus leads to exchange of information and ideas that cannot possibly occur in a primary where you simply vote. I understand the problem of a caucus occurring at a specific time which means that the number of people who can participate is limited, compared to voting which, unless it is unduly restricted, means most people can participate. Clearly the decision should be in favor of more participation. I get that, no matter how enthusiastic I am (and I am) about caucuses. Perhaps there is some way to incorporate the interaction that occurs in a caucus with the highly desirable participation of the greatest number of people.

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
36. Caucuses are anti-democratic. Closed Primaries Only.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:48 AM
Jul 2018

Caucuses are also filled with endless usually meaningless gestures.
You could still have caucuses for those who want to play politics, but
absolutely Zero effect on the selection of candidates.

Cha

(297,033 posts)
42. Bloody Excellent!!
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:55 AM
Jul 2018

Mahalo, RSF!

Four states have already moved from a caucus system to a traditional primary: Maine, Minnesota, Colorado, and, as of last month, Idaho made the switch. Party officials say two more states — Nebraska and Washington — are now considering the same change. And as Democratic Party members prepare to adopt changes to the nominating process at their annual summer meeting next month — including a new rule to “encourage” the use of primaries over caucuses “whenever possible” — caucus states may face new outside pressure to embrace state-run primaries
 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
53. The DNC should declare that by 2024 no delegates from caucus states will be counted
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:40 AM
Jul 2018

That gives states 5+ years to change their system.

If they do not then they get no say on who the nominee is.

rogue emissary

(3,148 posts)
66. Good first step.
Fri Jul 20, 2018, 06:52 PM
Jul 2018

Now announce they won't seat any delegates from states that only hold a caucus. As other DU have suggested in this thread.

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