Ocasio-Cortez means little to me. At this time.

[Kaleva]

There's a number of threads about her and some are quite long and the debates seems to be vigorous but I really don't see the infatuation, pro or con, with her.

She just won a primary against an incumbent who has been described in the press as the 4th most powerful Dem in the House of Representatives but I gather most here at DU had never heard of until the results of the primary were in.

Now she's out helping out other candidates in other states by campaigning with them. This is a free country and she can do what she wants. Helping other candidates in their races is what politicians do. The election results will show if Ocasio-Cortez's efforts were fruitful or not. Beneficial to the Party or not.

I think the excitement about her being the next best thing is premature and I also think negativity being directed at her, is at this point, unwarranted.

If she wins this fall, which is highly likely, Ocasio-Cortez will probably turn out to be a fine rep for the citizens of her district and that would be a good thing. If she becomes a force to reckon with in the House, that would even be better as we Dems need vigorous, young people in Congress who can get things done.

So I'm going to hold off for a few years before giving Ocasio-Cortez a thumbs up or a thumps down. For me to grade her now would be rather silly as there is little for me to gather an informed opinion of her.

[brush]

1. Ahhh...there is the fact that she's working in other states to unseat...

incumbent African American and LGBTQ Dems and she herself hasn't even been elected.

Apparently she hasn't heard the phrase: Stay in your lane.

[JCanete]

16. She is working to support candidates who she believes in. That is her lane, as it is all of our lane

[moriah]

24. She can do that without talking down about Davids as merely a "corporate attorney"...

... in fundraising emails someone on her team signed off on the use of her name for by the PCCC. Hopefully she didn't know.

Heck, she can do that without negatively campaigning against *any* primary contenders. Instead of talking negatively about other candidates, ESPECIALLY in states like Kansas, she could talk about the positives for the candidate she's endorsing. If she needs to attack, attack the Republicans.

Like Sharice has been doing in her Twitter feed. Not a word about her opponents, talk about their door to door efforts, endorsements, and attacking Republicans left and right.

I don't have issues with her endorsing and campaigning for people whose messages she believes in. I do have an issue with any carpetbagging politician coming to districts very different from their own with attacks *against* those people's Democratic primary opponents. It's bad enough when locals do it, but at least they know the lay of the land.

[whathehell]

27. Democrats have been minimizing her since her election..

As to advising her to "take down Republicans" instead of other Dems, yeah, that's what we tell her critics, for all the good it does.

[moriah]

33. Okay, I'll not minimize her.

She's fully responsible for anything her staff approves in her name, whether she read it or not. You're right that I shouldn't try to shift responsibility to the people who write this fundraising propaganda. That's minimizing her agency and responsibility.

[whathehell]

36. Lol...Get about fifty others here to sign on to that

and I might be impressed.

[EffieBlack]

28. This.

[lapucelle]

51. AOC does not have control over what her campaign does.

That's one of the conditions of running as a Brand New Congress candidate. Both AOC and Brent Welder have signed a pledge to that effect.

How much say in the campaign will candidates have?

BNC candidates will make remarkably few unilateral decisions about how to staff or run their campaign. In fact, they will make almost no decisions about their campaign. The one exception is their own personal stump speech and the way that they communicate the BNC platform to their district, which they will work on personally with BNC staff.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180131081034/http://brandnewcongress.org/faqs/

[Celerity]

22. Sharice Davids (I assume she's the LGBTQ candidate you are referencing) is not an incumbent

Stay in your lane btw, seems a pretty condescending, bigfooting thing to say to AOC.

[Mariana]

30. "Stay in your place" would be a bit too obvious. nt.

[brush]

48. Davids is not an incumbent, right. Clay is. Neither are OR candidates...

Last edited Thu Jul 19, 2018, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

which seems to be why AOC and Our Revolution have targeted them. Makes one wonder whose side they're on—ours or the repugs?

They are however hugely qualified Democratic candidates, IMO, who have both undoubtedly had to overcome people telling them to stay in their place (not the same as "stay in your lane", but you know that).

[Celerity]

56. People choose to support people they think best represents what they believe in

Now IF the Democratic primary is held, and their candidate loses, and they (regardless of which camp they come from) choose to either not vote or to run 3rd party or to work against the Democratic winner, then fuck 'em. No time for that shit. Up until then, I am all for competition, if a person thinks they are not getting what they want from a certain candidate. We do not ave a feudal nobility where people are just given or inherit political power for life. We are a big tent party and I think a Blue Wave is coming soon.

[brush]

61. I'm all for the blue wave. Dem incumbents have already proven...

that they can win. I favor backing them.

[Celerity]

62. And that is 100% your right and I applaud it.

Just the same as I applaud others who find another primary candidate to be more to their liking and work for them to win. It is how primaries work. It is how democracy works. So many great Democrats over the years got their foot in the door by beating same-party incumbents.

[brush]

65. Maybe so. The future of the country is at stake now though.

We have to at least take back the House in November or trump will be sucessful in selling out the country with no push back from Congress.

Incumbents are already proven winners, which IMO makes winning the House easier.

[leftstreet]

2. DURec

Can't believe all the screeching about her

[brush]

4. See post #1

[leftstreet]

5. Nonsense

She's not 'working to unseat' anyone

She's working to help candidates with platforms similar to her own - things like Medicare for all, higher wages, tuition debt relief, criminal justice reform, etc.

If any of those candidates you mention also endorse those things, they could ask for her support

[EffieBlack]

6. While dismissing Sharice Davids, who has one of the most impressive records I've seen in a new

candidate as just "a corporate attorney."

[leftstreet]

8. Is Davids running on Medicare For All?

or any other platform issues I posted?

[comradebillyboy]

12. Is that the current purity test?

[leftstreet]

14. I don't know

But I do know Ocasio-Cortez has said she will support candidates with platforms that contain those issues

[EffieBlack]

29. Then that's what her fundraising letter should say instead of smearing other Dems.

[Kaleva]

19. Her opponent, Brent Welder, the person Ocasio-Cortez is endorsing, looks impressive too.

[EffieBlack]

31. If he's so impressive, why not talk about his record and proposals without smearing the other Dems?

[brush]

7. It's not nonsense. Our Revolution is using her to help unseat...

Last edited Wed Jul 18, 2018, 11:54 PM - Edit history (1)

an incumbent Dem, William Lacy Clay, who is not their candidate. Clay is African American, and another Dem she is working to defeat is a Native American LGBTQ woman.

Those are Dems we should be backing not trying to unseat or defeat.

IMO she's getting poor advice on these races outside of not just her district but also outside of her state and region.

[leftstreet]

9. Are they running on Medicare For All?

increased minimum wage, tuition debt relief, criminal justice reform?

If they are, then I don't know why Ocasio-Cortez isn't choosing to campaign for them

[brush]

10. Those are Democratic Party issues not just Ocasio-Cortez's

They just don't happen to be Our Revolution candidates.

OR and Sanders seem bent on defeating Democrats who aren't their candidates instead of helping the party to defeat repugs and take back the House in November.

[leftstreet]

15. Medicare For All is in the Democratic party platform?

I didn't know that

[whathehell]

32. Medicare for all wasn't part of the 2016 Democratic Party Platform

Bernie Sanders was the only 'presidential candidate for whom It was was.

[Trumpocalypse]

18. That's identity politics

It should be about issues and policies, nothing else.

[EffieBlack]

34. How does dismissing Sharice David's as "a corporate attorney" about issues and policies?

Of course, it isn’t. It’s actually another form of “identity politics.”

There’s no difference between saying, “Vote for Sharice because she’s a Native American” and saying “Don’t vote for Sharice because she’s a corporate attorney.”

[Trumpocalypse]

43. I never dismissed her

So don't put words in my mouth.

[EffieBlack]

45. I didn't say YOU did anything

I was referring to AOC's fundraising email in which she did exactly that.

[Trumpocalypse]

54. It is still wrong

Just because someone else does it, it doesn't make it right.

[EffieBlack]

57. Hunh?

[brush]

46. What does that mean? I mean seriously. Identity politics?

That meme was looked at as ridiculous when Sanders first accused the Democratic Party of practicing it—especially when he had campaigned extensively to attract white, working class voters, as if that wasn't identity politics.

[Trumpocalypse]

55. Look it up

[brush]

59. I don't have to look it up. The repug party practices ID politics...

for white people. Sanders was trying to get some of those white people and acting as if that wasn't identity politics.

[Trumpocalypse]

63. So what?

Still doesn't make it right just because others do it.

[brush]

64. So what? That's hypocrisy. Accusing the Dem party of doing it...

while his whole campaign was doing it.

[Trumpocalypse]

67. I'm not defending Sanders

But just because he did it doesn’t make right for others to do it.

[brush]

69. But you know the whole concept of identity politics is BS, because...

as it's said, "all politics is local", it's also all identity politics.

And even though the buzz word phrase was crafted and used as a negative, campaigns identify who their core constituents are then gear their messages to them, whether it be straight, white males or POCs or evangelicals or women or LGBTQs.

[Trumpocalypse]

71. No 'All politics is local'

means that local issues are the most important.

[brush]

72. Swoosh.

[EffieBlack]

58. White people don't have an identity. They're just "people."

Now you know.

[brush]

60. Most of us here at DU know. They are the default people for those...

who only thing no further than wypipo.

Fortunately most here are more "woke" than that.

[NY_20th]

3. She seems to be drawing a lot of attention from the

"Our Revolution" group.

Since she has aligned with that group, they see it as a big win and believe that their message is now winning.

I won't knock her. She worked very hard for her primary victory, and I'm impressed by her.

It's interesting though, if you listen to her talk about her platform, she talks about issues that all mainstream Democrats accept and promote.

She doesn't stand out as offering anything different, she stands out because of her youth, energy and optimism.

She's different from most Our Revolution candidates, because she actually promotes and talks about civil rights issues as well.

So while the Our Revolution group still seems to be fighting against the Democratic Party, instead of Republicans, I think Alexandria is a bit different. If Bernie Sanders had run on her platform, he would have done a lot better in the primary.

Alexandria is offering the complete Democratic message and is connecting with the young voters.

Now she is coming across as a bit cocky. But heck, I'd be cocky too if I was 28 years old and heading to Congress.

I think she just wants to pay her dues to those who backed her. I also believe that Our Revolution will tout her as their own victory as long as they can.

In the end though, all politics are local. AOC did an outstanding job in getting out the vote. Her efforts will not magically aid other Our Revolution candidates. Those candidates will have to put the work in as well, and they will have to win over their voters.

She's using her 15 minutes of fame as she sees fit. It won't last forever. Come November, she'll realize she has to mend some fences if she wants to continue to be heard.

[DinahMoeHum]

41. +1000s

n/t

[comradebillyboy]

11. It does seem a bit premature to anoint her as the new leader

of the Democratic Party. Does she understand that?

[suprcali]

13. Hubris

She's so confident she's​ going to win that she:

1. Blasts Crowley for being on the ballot
2. Goes to other states to campaign even against Democrats


If number 1 was such an issue then maybe concentrate on campaigning in your own district.

[Snotcicles]

70. Where is she campaigning against a Democrat? nt

[whathehell]

39. Lol.

She doesn't seem to be the one who is concerned about that.

[OnDoutside]

17. Nothing good can happen when you have a party within a party.

[Kaleva]

20. Factions within any organization is a fact of life.

[OnDoutside]

21. Factions, yes absolutely. Parties, no. The Tea Party with the Repugs, or the Militant Tendency

with the British Labour Party in the 80s, are examples of what I'm talking about. It's the rabid tail wagging the dog. The Conservatives in the UK are being ripped apart by a vocal hard right minority.

[Kaleva]

23. Ocasio-Cortez's views are pretty much mainstream progressive.

[disillusioned73]

25. I think you are

closer to the problem than you'll ever realize, with that statement...

[OnDoutside]

26. Actions will tell a lot more than words. And by Actions I mean if enough OR backed people win,

will they become the Tea Party of the Democrats. Time will tell.

[Amishman]

38. Abolish ICE is not mainstream

And is a really bad idea and a bad message.

It's taking what was one of the Republicans baseless accusations (that our party wants total open borders) and legitimizing it.

If it does get incorporated into our party's platform it will be a huge problem for me.

[Kaleva]

53. Is that all you have?

I didn't say every one of her ideas is mainstream progressive.

[whathehell]

40. Correct.

It happens everywhere.

[brush]

49. True, but when you have one faction working against the larger whole...

both usually lose (see 2016).

[Voltaire2]

66. Lulzd.

[Chickensoup]

35. Some Democrats love the status quo.

They cant stand a breath of fresh air.

[empedocles]

37. 'At this time'

'SOCIALIST', 'ABOLISH ICE', means a lot to fox spews, trump, trumpsters; in their everyday efforts at pushing voters to the right.!!!
I involuntarily see fox spews 2 hours per week. O-C is being played as a huge, huge asset.

[whathehell]

42. If we're going to run scared from everyone Fox hates,

calling them an "asset", we won't have time for anything else.

[empedocles]

47. This is a gigantic precarious war. We need all the votes we can get

We cannot afford to righteously, left 'battlecry', arrogantly, alienate those not automatic Democratic votes.

[whathehell]

50. Polls repeatedy show most voters favor Progressive ideas.

I think they are moving steadily in that direction. I'm not afraid of alienating them.

[empedocles]

52. Individual House and Senate seats must be won, one by one

There will be close races for some seats. Dems need all the votes they can get; to get those seats.

[I like your FDR avatar and FDR's unbelievable accomplishments - he was a pragmatist, he had to be to win].

[NCTraveler]

44. It's a know Democratic hold.

No matter who won the primary.

It won't even take a lot of votes to hold the seat.

It will be fun to watch her learn and grow. If she doesn't do either, we will have another Democrat in the seat before long.

[Kaleva]

68. Ocasio-Cortez is a hot topic of discussion for some. Altough I don't know why.

She defeated an incumbent most of us never heard of until recently and is out campaigning for Democrats most of us don't know much about who are running against other Dem candidates that are also very little known.

Looking at the four candidates Ocasio-Cortez is going to be campaigning with, I wouldn't have a problem voting for any of them in the general election. I live in Michigan and intend to vote for Gretchen Whitmer but if Abdul El-Sayed were to be the party's nominee for governor, I'd gladly vote for him this fall. As for the 3rd district in Kansas, Brent Welder looks to be a good candidate and the same for James Thompson who is running to be the nominee in Kansas' 4th District. Cori Bush, who is running against incumbent William Lacy Clay to be the party nominee in Missouri’s 1st Congressional District.

Here is a brief bio of Cori Bush:

"Cori Bush is a former early childhood educator, a community-based mental health registered nurse, and an ordained pastor. She is a single mother and a community activist and organizer.

Cori has felt the burden of being uninsured and the pain of homelessness. She has endured racism and sexism. She is a survivor of sexual assault and domestic violence. Cori experienced the challenges of raising children on her own, living paycheck to paycheck, making just above minimum wage, taking on student loans to continue her education."

https://www.votecoribush.com/about

While some here may prefer other candidates running in these races, just as I plan on voting for Whitmer, I think the vast majority of DUers would have no problem enthusiastically voting for and supporting any of the 4 in the general election.

In summary, Ocasio-Cortez is no boogey person or someone like Cindy Sheehan (who was Rosanne Barr's running mate in the 2012 presidential election). The people she has endorsed and will be out campaigning for are all good, serious candidates in their own right.