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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Bigs Are Starting to Accept the Unimaginable - By Josh Marshall
July 19, 2018 1:40 pm
As I mentioned on Tuesday, I was very skeptical that President Trumps stunning performance at Mondays press conference would lead to any great shift on Capitol Hill or among core Trump voters. I remain skeptical. In fact, weve seen evidence from the Hill tending to validate that skepticism. Some Sens and Reps are blaming Trump critics for the last four days. Many more are accepting at face value the Presidents wouldn/wouldnt nonsense or simply saying theres nothing they can do.
But I think there is some difference, perhaps even a watershed.
Were not in the habit of thinking the unthinkable. The structure of the words themselves tells us that. Over the last eighteen months most respectable opinion in the US has stood aghast at President Trumps bizarre and often inexplicable actions while yet interpreting them through series of only marginally and decreasingly plausible prisms.
One: His ego is so bound up with his presidential win that he fights any claims which suggest it may not have been a legitimate win. Okay, maybe. Two: President Trump is so set on dominance and loyalty that he may act out against those he perceives as threats, even if he hasnt really done anything wrong. Eh, thats a stretch. Three: Trumps hands are clean on Russia. But hes been knee-deep in money laundering and ties to organized crime figures for decades. His businesses cant stand scrutiny from any serious criminal probe. True as far as it goes. Four: Maybe Trumps just trolling us. Because everybody demands he not be friendly or accommodating to Putin, he does just that. Just to show hes in charge. Highly dubious at this scale. Five: Maybe Trump didnt cross any lines himself, at least not knowingly. But he cant know others around him didnt. I made a version of this argument myself more than a year ago. Its just no longer plausible. Six: President Trump is simply an ideological kindred spirit. He simply supports Putinism with its mix of plutocracy and autocracy. Sure, Maybe. But again, not a sufficient explanation.
This is a lengthy list. But none of these are argument are really persuasive when you put together all the actions weve seen over the last eighteen months, and especially the ones of recent days. Here I think you can see a real shift. Over the last three days Ive seen a number of establishment figures, the people always resist the outlandish explanations, who always stay basically conventional in their opinion and statements saying simply: Putin must have something on Trump.
Sometimes its specific, some kind of corrupt alliance; other times its amorphous, some kind of inexplicable hold Putin has over Trump by force of personality. But the kind of people who never said this kind of thing are saying it now. Somehow the President is compromised. Putin has something on him; or he has tempted his avarice with something. But theres simply no innocent explanation for what were seeing.
Thats the shift. The Monday press conference made cautious, prominent people start to come to grips with the reality that Donald Trump, as crazy as it sounds and as difficult as it may be to believe, is under some kind of influence or control by a foreign adversary power, whether by fear or avarice or some other factor.
As yet, theres little difference of behavior from elected Republicans. And I dont expect any. What veteran foreign policy or diplomatic hands say on CNN is not the most important thing. But I think they are indicators of a change, a change of perception I expect is occurring among many who cant yet speak.
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https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-bigs-are-starting-to-accept-the-unimaginable
Stuart G
(38,365 posts)lapfog_1
(29,166 posts)I have to ask... why can't it be more than one?
Plus this... an absolute desire to be a monarch or dictator.
tblue37
(64,982 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Sophia4
(3,515 posts)Probably born with a serious problem.
Then think about his family.
His brother committed suicide via alcohol if what we are told is correct. Problems in his family (unbridled greed and hate maybe) could have worsened the innate flaws in him.
Something very deep and personal wrong with Trump.
He seems to have very little empathy for others. His cruel jabs at other Republican candidates were a sign. The Republican electorate ate them up. (Why, we ask?)
We shall see what happens, but when Trump doesn't like a fact, he denies it, and that will eventually get him into serious trouble or, alternatively, more and more make him the object of ridicule.
It may be that the ridicule he points at others will point right back at him.
Stuart G
(38,365 posts)"He seems to have very little empathy for others. His cruel jabs at other Republican candidates were a sign."
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)charm of one. Repulsive person.
calimary
(80,700 posts)Gonna make me a copy.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)catrose
(5,050 posts)It was always on display. And yet over 60 M people voted for him, telling us everything he'd do for them, when he'd never done anything for anyone besides himself in 70 years and clearly had no intention to change (or had the knowledge to do so if he wanted, which he never will).
FakeNoose
(32,356 posts)It's obvious he's being blackmailed! This is not OK.
Trump needs to go, and I no longer care how.
erronis
(14,955 posts)I sorta wonder how many leading (sic) contenders they approached to carry their (russki/pluto) mantle?
Oh, of course. I forgot that there were 16+ clowns crowded into that car. Some of them thought it was actually a talent show. Only one had the right talent - STUPID and GREEDY and totally AMORAL.
FakeNoose
(32,356 posts)Putin already had Rand Paul on his payroll even before (t)Rump was on the scene. Other than that, I wouldn't know know what Kompromat Pootie has been collecting over the years. Probably something on a lot of them, is my guess.
Just sayin'
FM123
(10,050 posts)calimary
(80,700 posts)coti
(4,612 posts)Yes, Putin certainly has all kind of kompromat on Trump, but in the end this is a willing conspiracy and long-time alliance they are engaging in. It's to their mutual benefit, Trump is no hostage.
He does not give a shit about this country. Never did. He wanted this and made it happen.
dchill
(38,324 posts)The guy is a born and bred, fully reinforced, completely rationalized asshole. As are his offspring. They will gleefully conspire against and attack any entity that stands against them or their interests, and their interests are all venal and illegitimate. America is a target, and their office is a disposable tool.
Our biggest problem is that this completely aligns with Republican Party values.
OMGWTF
(3,901 posts)and I'm betting he found some juicy kompromat on the entire Rethuglican party.
dchill
(38,324 posts)finding THAT dump. Why isn't WikiLeaks on that one?
calimary
(80,700 posts)dchill
(38,324 posts)They must have gotten some FlexSeal!
dalton99a
(81,084 posts)and a traitor to the United States of America
LiberalLovinLug
(14,154 posts)Trump's 80% of support from Republicans
And Trump's cheerleaders in the House and Senate
And Trump's propaganda "news" outlet
I think there is a long ways to go. For years, decades. To deprogram, if its even possible, or if it even can be done with Sinclair's Trump TV soon to infiltrate most homes. And do you think Trump would stop tweeting even IF he lost in 2020?
Duppers
(28,094 posts)https://www.axios.com/republicans-poll-donald-trump-press-conference-putin-5776322f-a483-4e21-b50c-028799b08367.html
This poll foreshadows the coming national drama. Every piece of data, and virtually every public action of elected Republican officials, shows Trump will have overwhelming and probably unbreakable party support, regardless of what Robert Mueller finds with his Russia probe.
REGARDLESS of Mueller's findings!
calimary
(80,700 posts)hes really driving the independent voters away. The disapproval numbers among independents are comfortably over 50%. That marks a pretty big shift. Had been hovering around the meh levels, kinda evenly divided - but now it looks like they care - a LOT.
Duppers
(28,094 posts)That does really help. I just heard of a personal story of someone leaving the R party and she voted for Trump. Yes, this is a very big deal, so thanks for the reminder.
My idiot neighbors are still republicans; one still has his TRump sign out, just to irritate us, I think.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)because they hate Trump.
niyad
(112,440 posts)Raster
(20,996 posts)...for decades. In addition, Putin*/KGB/FSB have major kompromat on Trump*, most likely relating to sex with an underage Russian Lolita, you know, the kind of perverse honeytrap the KGB specialized in for years.
Guilty, Guilty and Guilty.
Trump* IS A RUSSIAN ASSET, and has been for years. Come on people, this is really not that hard to grasp.
karin_sj
(805 posts)DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)idea the President of the United States is, in fact, an agent of Russia regardless if it's wittingly or unwittingly.
Even I, as someone who despises Trump, have a hard time believing, let alone, saying aloud Trump is an active asset of Russia, of Vladimir Putin. Yet all the evidence tells me it must be true, no matter how outlandish.
Raster
(20,996 posts)...Trump* is NOWHERE near the businessperson he purports to be. Russian cash and largesse have kept the foul ship tRump* afloat for years. This is why he would rather die than show his taxes. And most important, tRump* has allowed himself to be compromised in at least one --probably more-- extremely unflattering and probably illegal positions.
Yes, it boggles the mind. This tRump* "affair" is akin to an addiction and/or an abusive relationship. The healing doesn't begin until the truth is revealed and then dealt with.
Donald J. Trump*, 45th POTUS IS A RUSSIAN ASSET.
It is what it is.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)whatever is left must be the truth. So, it is with Trump. You're entirely correct.
BadGimp
(4,009 posts)RedSpartan
(1,693 posts)It's coming.
Raster
(20,996 posts)peekaloo
(22,977 posts)Of course it was to smear the Clintons.
Makes sense now.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)He's typically careful about what he writes. But he's right; there has been a shift--in the media, in former and even current government officials, willing to say what used to be unthinkable. Dan Coates, for example, seems to be done pretending this isn't weird. Witness his interview with Andrea Mitchell today.
guss
(239 posts)There was a Show
That was called Making of a Serial Killer.
I think Trump has the same profile.
Along with some of his supporters.
Hes one of us. Mantra, Gives them like a group therapy.
Being that kind of OK for his base.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)In the context of answering a question about how Russia might blackmail Flynn (they knew about him lying about discussing lifting sanctions), she said it could range from mafia-like threats to the very subtle hints that one's reputation could be ruined. She continued those threats might not cause you to take an overt action to help Putin, but could make one do things so as not to offend Putin. As she was ticking through her answer, I thought how much this explained Trump's actions although she wasn't talking about him specifically.
Thinking about how Trump is, his overwhelming need for attention and his persona as a great businessman and dealmaker, what would be the worst thing that could happen to him? To make him not want to offend Putin/Russia? To me, it would be Putin knowing that he's neither of those two things, knowing that he is in hock to him up to his ears and that at any time Putin could easily put this information out and explode the myths Trump created around himself that sustain him.
dajoki
(10,678 posts)and it must be now. People who know things must come forward, this charade can go on no longer.
ashling
(25,771 posts)I thought it said "The Pigs are becoming Unmanageable"
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)Thanks for the thread DonViejo
bucolic_frolic
(42,679 posts)was never going to be a popular message in the U.S. of A.
blue-wave
(4,317 posts)called out the traitor and treason thing months ago. That doesn't mean we aren't cautious. Maybe we just recognize grave danger before others recognize the same.
"The Monday press conference made cautious, prominent people start to come to grips with the reality that Donald Trump, as crazy as it sounds and as difficult as it may be to believe, is under some kind of influence or control by a foreign adversary power"
To those "cautious, prominent" people now coming to the party of crazy trumpianism recognition, I do welcome you. I guess you're just fashionably late, huh?
Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)America has lost several airplane/helicopter contracts...(to name a few) and putin and china stepped in and took the business. Billions of dollars in revenue lost It's not a coincidence. dt is probably getting kick-backs on all the new contracts through paying back loans to putin.
The farmers who lost revenue from soybeans and corn etc,....well...congress FOUND some money laying around to give them some welfare. They'll be voting repub again.
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)Cruel father, cold mother, associating with mobsters and criminals. His values were all screwed up and he was emotionally damaged. Even though rich, that's not enough to be happy. He's an unhappy man never content.
Add to that his whole life wheeling and dealing and failing at business.
A very touchy, self centered personality and very spiteful. His number one target of that spite is Obama and anything and anyone associated with him.
Sure he's compromised by Russia. He's in so deep with the money laundering and corruption.
He does not care about anything but himself and what's good for him, and will fight for it. Will certainly lie for it.
Why is he president? He wanted the power and the win. He did it by being a skillful liar and possibly a cheat with the help of Russia. He picked off his competition in the primary season one by one by ridicule and lying. Has no shame.
Whenever he says something, even an offhand comment like saying he's happy to be president and having a good time, ask yourself why he thought to make that comment. It's probably because the opposite is true and he wants to change reality.