Could this Tad Devine/Bernie thing

[Tavarious Jackson]

Have anything to do with the fact that Bernie and Trump feel the same way about NATO? Isn't that what Putin is after?

[JI7]

1. Bernie Feels the same way about Nato that Trump Does ?

where did you get that from ?

[Tavarious Jackson]

3. Bernie's campaign page.. nt

[herding cats]

5. Did you not watch the Democratic debates? nt

[Tavarious Jackson]

6. He wanted to include Russia.

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-nato/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/260804-sanders-calls-for-new-nato-that-includes-russia

[herding cats]

8. He also called it a waste of money previously.

During one of the Democratic debates in 2016 he said, "The countries of Europe should pick up more of the burden for their defense." That's verbatim.

[Tavarious Jackson]

9. Yes he did.

It's not a stretch to say Putin liked what he heard.

[herding cats]

13. It was more about preaching to the indoctrinated here.

That's just my opinion, of course. By that point I'd been seeing so much pro Russia propaganda being spread I'd become soured to anything related to it. I'd lost my patience and no longer thought they were just misinformed. It was obviously intentional.

[Tavarious Jackson]

14. If Bernie runs in 2020 the debates will be very interesting.

Regardless of who runs we have to be ready to push back hard on pro Russia and anti NATO bs.

[herding cats]

15. I doubt he's going to run.

I know, that's not a popular thing to say, but I think he's just playing the angle until he doesn't anymore. He'd lose people if he admitted he's not running. Which is why he won't say that until the last minute. Tease, tempt and lure. That's politics. It's how you gain influence.

He's going to be seriously vetted if he runs again, and it's a whole different political climate. He's a career politician, he knows this as well as anyone.

[BlueJac]

18. They would call him a socialist...

not that that a bad thing. The right wing would flip out on him!

[shanny]

27. the right wing calls everybody a socialist

big deal

[Tavarious Jackson]

30. To be fair, they already call all dems socialist, nt

[Ezior]

11. FeelTheBern

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-nato/

"many of our constituents understand that it is not the time to continue wasting tens of billions of dollars helping to defend Europe"

"Bernie also believes the U.S. foots too much of NATO’s bill.", "Bernie believes Europeans should play a larger role in funding the defense budget of a primarily European coalition."
Sounds like he has some (willful?) misunderstanding about NATO, just like Trump. There is no common NATO defense budget. There's only a small administrative budget. Of course it can be useful to discuss that budget, where the US pays 22%, Germany 15%, France and UK 10% each, etc. Maybe the US could pay a little less and other countries a little more.

I do agree that some European countries, including Germany, should improve their defence capabilities. At the same time I believe that the US is spending too much on defence. Even if the US keeps on just ramping up the defence budget to unbelievable levels, I see no reason why European countries should do the same, unless Trump declares war on us (then there's probably no hope anyway). Just make sure we have a healthy European defence structure even without taking the US into account.

[Nanjeanne]

23. Yes he and Pres Obama agreed on this issue.

Easily googled.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-nato-pay-fair-share-231405

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/11066785/Obama-and-Cameron-to-tell-Nato-allies-to-increase-defence-spending.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/five-reasons-why-nato-nations-don-t-always-pay-their-n619966

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/blog/2016/mar/11/barack-obama-right-criticise-natos-free-riders-course-he-is

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

26. Excellent point, but then, why let facts get in the way of a good Bernie bashing?!

[Tavarious Jackson]

32. It's not Bernie bashing.

Bernie took it a step further and said Russia should join NATO...

[NCTraveler]

29. I've found that those who support populism the most....

almost always know the least about individuals specific brands of populism.

Overwhelmingly, it isn't pretty when looked at as a whole.

[herding cats]

2. My opinion is, it's not that.

I suspect Putin wanted, and wants, to undermine our democracy. Which has the same effect with NATO (look at Trump) and adds the bonus of breaking the US as revenge for the fall of the Soviet Union. It's a win-win for Putin.

Devine was an easy mark due to his previous involvement with Manafort in Ukraine working for Putin's interests. The lesson here, on more than one level, is be careful who you climb in bed with and who you think are your friends.

[Tavarious Jackson]

4. I agree. Aslo, just to be safe go for candidates that 100% support NATO. nt

[herding cats]

7. I don't disagree with that.

Also, our candidates need to be smart and not hire people with ties to Putin's nefarious work. It's going to be increasingly more difficult to explain that away in the near future.

[NurseJackie]

10. "Bernie and Trump feel the same way about NATO" --- That certainly makes sense.

Bernie and Trump feel the same way about NATO

That certainly makes sense. The more you know, the more the pieces of the puzzle are starting to come together to show a complete picture.

I have to say, the picture that's starting to be revealed is not a very flattering one for Bernie.

[Tavarious Jackson]

12. In all honesty it was clear to me, you and many others here since 2015

I think the "cult of personality" is starting to wear off of some and there lies the difference. My opinion of course and I am not speaking of anyone in particular....

[NurseJackie]

16. Yes indeed, the "cult of personality" is something that many different politicians worldwide...

I think the "cult of personality" is starting to wear off of some and there lies the difference.

Yes indeed, the "cult of personality" is something that many different politicians worldwide take advantage of. It allows them to easily manipulate their eager, gullible and unsuspecting followers into doing things that are not in their own (or their country's) best interests, or into doing things which financially benefit the "cult leader" (for lack of a better term.)

I am not speaking of anyone in particular

Nor am I. But the recent arrests for corruption and graft (and other illegal BS) in Malaysia are eerily familiar and I remain hopeful that all corrupt (or self-serving) government officials will meet with the same fate/s.

[watoos]

17. I'm going to get in trouble

if I comment on this thread, instead, I will choose to ignore it.

[Autumn]

21. Good idea

[melman]

19. There's no 'Bernie thing'

At least not outside the fantasies of those inclined to fantasize about such things.

[MaryMagdaline]

20. Yes, and they both support Russia vs free Ukraine

There are lots of reasons to view the separatist movement in Ukraine with suspicion. They do have fascists in the mix, much like the rest of Eastern Europe. I think Bernie is not so much pro-Russian but anti-war. We came dangerously close to war in Ukraine and sanctions are viewed as an act of war in Russia.

Whether I agree with him or not, if Bernie is pro-Russia, there is some REASON behind it, not greed or white supremacy.

With Devine involved, it does appear Bernie was duped or did not care that he was represented by someone with anti-democratic ties.

[NCTraveler]

31. Solid position.

This isn't.

“After four decades of the cold war and trillions of United States taxpayer dollars allocated to compete in the arms race, many of our constituents understand that it is not the time to continue wasting tens of billions of dollars helping to defend Europe, let alone assuming more than our share of any costs associated with expanding NATO eastward.” Bernie Sanders

Why would Bernie want to prevent countries from joining?
Bernie sees the eastward expansion of NATO as an unnecessary provocation of Russia — and, as stated in the quote above, he’s not interested in revisiting the Cold War era when Russia and the U.S. were constantly pitted against each other.

Even “pro-western” politicians in Russia have been hesitant to support NATO’s expansion to include Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia, the Baltic states that were part of the former Soviet Union. Russian President Vladimir Putin’s personal envoy even suggested that Finland’s membership in NATO would start “World War III,” while Putin himself referred to Ukraine’s potential membership as a “direct threat” to Russian national security.

Learn more about Bernie’s stance on Putin at the Russia issue page.

Are there other reasons Bernie opposes NATO expansion?
American taxpayers pay for 22 percent of NATO’s budget, contributing nearly $712 million in 2010. Most of America’s NATO allies have been decreasing their military spending, while the U.S. contributes more than twice as much as the second-largest funder. Bernie believes Europeans should play a larger role in funding the defense budget of a primarily European coalition.

Populism at its best.

Now Obama from your link.

“I want to take this opportunity to commend Greece for being one of the five NATO allies that spends 2 percent of GDP on defense, a goal that we have consistently set but not everybody has met,” Obama said. “Greece has done this even during difficult economic times. If Greece can meet this NATO commitment, all our NATO allies should be able to do so.”

One of the most important functions he can serve on his trip abroad, which includes additional stops to Germany and Peru, “is to let them know that there is no weakening of resolve when it comes to America’s commitment to maintaining a strong and robust NATO relationship and a recognition that those alliances are just good for Europe,” the president said Monday. “They’re good for the United States, and they’re vital for the world.”

Not sure why you brought Obama into this with the topic line you used. The two being discussed are nothing like him. They don't possess his breadth or depth of thought.

[SidDithers]

24. DU rec...nt

Sid

[lostnfound]

25. Consistent focus on inequality Vs consistent focus on self

There is no fair comparison.

[LexVegas]

28. Rec. nt

[Demit]

33. Bernie & Trump certainly feel the same way about disclosing their income taxes.