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Unlocking the door to your own business: WHILE BLACK (Original Post) Takket Jul 2018 OP
That's why this story surprised me so much: The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2018 #1
Economic anxiety RandySF Jul 2018 #2
Must have been a slow day for the SFPD. Multiple cars? theaocp Jul 2018 #3
Amazing how there always seems to be multiple units on these calls. Afromania Jul 2018 #4
the reality is azureblue Jul 2018 #10
This is disgusting and sickening karin_sj Jul 2018 #5
Yup. Many "liberal" cities may have a small minority of true racists LiberalLovinLug Jul 2018 #8
That's so true karin_sj Jul 2018 #22
There is often more racism in cities IronLionZion Jul 2018 #13
GOD if you have a key cant it be assumed its because you BELONG THERE??!? THeres a Kashkakat v.2.0 Jul 2018 #6
What's ironic is the police chief is SF is a black man kimbutgar Jul 2018 #7
Something tells me you're wrong. Drahthaardogs Jul 2018 #15
OFFS. These people need to get a fucking grip. onecaliberal Jul 2018 #9
This is wrong just so wrong blue-wave Jul 2018 #11
It's not that they don't believe a black person can own a business IronLionZion Jul 2018 #12
One small correction Nonhlanhla Jul 2018 #14
There are many similarities to the US GOP and Trump IronLionZion Jul 2018 #16
We are not in fundamental disagreement here Nonhlanhla Jul 2018 #18
K&R, at some point they should be penalties for people who do this antagonistically uponit7771 Jul 2018 #17
A few things on this video and some of the responses here Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #19
A business that involves getting people to pay $5 for 8 ounces of lemonade oberliner Jul 2018 #24
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2018 #20
This isn't even that- he set off the alarm and they came Lee-Lee Jul 2018 #21
Things seem to have worked out well for him and his business oberliner Jul 2018 #23

theaocp

(4,236 posts)
3. Must have been a slow day for the SFPD. Multiple cars?
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 07:37 PM
Jul 2018

Be sure to check out more of AJ+ and Francesca Fiorentini.

azureblue

(2,146 posts)
10. the reality is
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 09:15 PM
Jul 2018

they have to respond to a possible B&E, and the cops respond in more than one car because they don't know how many "Criminals" they may have to deal with. It's just SOP. The problem is the person who called it in - the cops have no way of telling if she was genuinely concerned or if she was just "swatting" a black man. But in Trump's America, any black person has to be up to no good, according to Trumpnuts...

karin_sj

(808 posts)
5. This is disgusting and sickening
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 08:15 PM
Jul 2018

When will it end? And it's really shocking to hear that this took place in San Francisco, which I always thought of as one of the most tolerant and non-racist cities in the U.S.

It makes me so sad to think of what this poor family, and so many others like them, have to go through. And it's gotten so much worse since Trump has been in office and has emboldened his base to think that it's OK to do this now.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,173 posts)
8. Yup. Many "liberal" cities may have a small minority of true racists
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 08:41 PM
Jul 2018

But whatever amount their is now puff up their chests with renewed bravado and gall and are willing to make themselves known because they know the President has their back.

karin_sj

(808 posts)
22. That's so true
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 06:00 PM
Jul 2018

I live in one of the bluest of the blue cities in the Bay Area and you wouldn't believe some of the racist, extremist crap that is routinely spouted on our neighborhood Facebook pages. They're definitely in the minority though and get routinely shut down by others. Still there are more than I would have thought and they're always talking about Trump, guns, and immigration.

IronLionZion

(45,427 posts)
13. There is often more racism in cities
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 10:15 PM
Jul 2018

from the few assholes who deeply resent the progressive liberal stuff they see around them and want to punch down when they can, so they bully minorities.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
6. GOD if you have a key cant it be assumed its because you BELONG THERE??!? THeres a
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 08:26 PM
Jul 2018

Last edited Tue Jul 24, 2018, 08:35 PM - Edit history (1)

significant discernible difference between breaking in vs. unlocking a door with a key in your possession. Whats wrong with these people!!? One you call the police for, the other you dont - very simple.

kimbutgar

(21,130 posts)
7. What's ironic is the police chief is SF is a black man
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 08:37 PM
Jul 2018

Something tells me those officers might get reprimanded for answering such a stupid call.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
15. Something tells me you're wrong.
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 06:51 AM
Jul 2018

We better hope the Police don't start to decide what calls they do or do not respond to. A call comes in, you go. That's how it works.

blue-wave

(4,351 posts)
11. This is wrong just so wrong
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 09:34 PM
Jul 2018

The person or persons who called the cops should be charged. I'd put money on it that they are the ones who vandalized his store.

I know this has always been a problem, but I feel it's getting worse thanks to tRump and his minions. They are dividing America more than it ever has been divided.

IronLionZion

(45,427 posts)
12. It's not that they don't believe a black person can own a business
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 10:13 PM
Jul 2018

it's that they don't want black people to own businesses, be successful, live a good life, or ever dare to forget their place as decided by whites.

Liberals often bring up similarities to the rise of the Nazi party in 1930s Germany, but it may be worth researching the rise of the National Party in South Africa and the issues they campaigned on in 1948 that led to decades of apartheid as other countries were moving towards civil rights. White Afrikaners "feared for their lives" because black Africans, Indians, and other minorities were getting way too uppity with their aspirations and needed to be put in their place so hard they won't soon forget.

As if police would ever ask a white business owner to prove they own their shop. Whites are known to own stuff.

Nonhlanhla

(2,074 posts)
14. One small correction
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 06:47 AM
Jul 2018

You write "White Afrikaners 'feared for their lives' because black Africans, Indians, and other minorities were getting way too uppity..." This is incorrect on two fronts.

First, whites in South Africa were in fact one of the minorities (black people were and are the majority by a large percentage), which was a major contributing factor in driving apartheid.

Secondly, to think that apartheid was rooted in a sense that people of color were "getting too uppity," is superficial. It was, rather, rooted in nationalism that in turn had its roots in the experience of the Boer War and the decimation of the Afrikaner population in the concentration camps (including literally half of all the children in the Boer republics). (The book "Apartheid: Britain's Bastard Child" is instructive here.) If you talk to Afrikaners from that era (and I have, often, although now there aren't so many alive anymore), they convey a sense of never wanting to be ruled by anyone else again. Keep in mind that the British were deeply racist against the Afrikaners as well, and this combined with the Boer War led to a sense of humiliation that contributed to the development of this strong desire for self-rule.

This was combined with a worldview that saw the black and other non-white cultures as less developed than white culture - something that was rooted in South Africa's colonial past, as well as the fact that there was indeed a serious clash between traditional and Western cultures in South Africa (where apartheid got it wrong was that it assumed that all black people were traditionalist, and also that it never tried to appreciate the values of traditional cultures). Apartheid was technically called separate development because it was premised upon the paradoxical idea that all people are in principle equal, but all cultures are not equally developed, and hence they were to be kept separate so that they can develop at their own pace. It was in fact a twisted form of multiculturalism. This is why to this day I cringe when people in the West speak of "developed" and "developing" nations - that is the language of apartheid.

I'm no apartheid apologist, but if we are to do what you suggest, we could at least be historically accurate as far as possible, and not impose American assumptions about the roots of racism on another context. South African and American racism are quite distinct in many ways, although equally bad in its practical effects.

What is interesting, is that, just like the Nazis got in with a minority vote, so did the National Party. They won more seats, but received a minority of the votes of those who at that time were eligible to vote (at least, so I read once, I should probably check that again). Up until that time, a slight majority of Afrikaners thought the National Party was a bit nuts. But once in the parliamentary majority, they quickly consolidated power. This should be a warning for the US: a minority party getting into power thanks to the EC, gerrymandering, and voter purging, and then consolidating that power until they do indeed represent the majority, by the use of propaganda and normalization.

IronLionZion

(45,427 posts)
16. There are many similarities to the US GOP and Trump
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:34 AM
Jul 2018

it's correct that black Africans were the majority and whites were minority. But the other non-whites were also minorities. That's what I meant since they had 4 categories: African, White, Indian, and Coloured.

I appreciate your explanation of the origins of apartheid, but it certainly was a way to keep black people down and prevent them from improving their standing in society. Trump supporters claim they voted on economic issues and to preserve their cultural traditions or similar nonsense. Most of his supporters are openly white supremacist, and believe other cultures are inferior.

Trump won the presidency with less votes, and many Republicans in congress won their elections through gerrymandering and voter suppression. Many red states make it very difficult for black Americans, Latinos, and other minorities to vote. They purge names off the voter rolls on suspicion of fraud. By a person's name, they can guess the person's race and claim fraud because of insignificant things.

Nonhlanhla

(2,074 posts)
18. We are not in fundamental disagreement here
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 09:27 AM
Jul 2018

but your original post sounded as if you assume the same situation in SA than in the US: a white majority oppressing non-white minorities. As a native of South Africa, I obviously know that "Coloureds" and "Indians" were smaller minority groups in SA, but in the case of black people, it was a matter of white minority oppression of the black majority AND of other "non-white" minorities.

You are absolutely correct that apartheid led to severe oppression of black (and other non-white) people in South Africa, especially in the form of preventing black people from improving their lot: in fact, that might be its most lasting and sad legacy. (My own youthful rejection of apartheid and subsequent anti-apartheid activism many years ago was because I saw the inequities in education and realized how unjust it was, so I'm obviously deeply aware of this issue.) But the roots of apartheid were the fears of the white minority on an overwhelmingly black continent. Recognizing that helps us to understand what is going on in the current expression of racism in the US: demographic fears as whites face the reality that they will no linger be the majority in the US within a few decades. Recognizing that is not excusing it, but it can help us understand that the current Trumpian moment is driven by a more primal form of racism that goes well beyond the white desire to control "uppity" people of color. Which means that if we are to combat it, we will have to go beyond trying to reason with people: when people are stuck in their fears, they are not capable of change. Earlier forms of racism in the US was driven more by other impulses, like a sense of superiority, but to this is now added fear. In South Africa, as I noted in my previous post, operated with a sense of racial superiority, but it was primarily driven by fear. Recognizing that US racism has changed slightly to now be motivated more by demographics fears (like it was in SA), is one important insight to take from the South African context.

The second important insight from the SA context is what I already mentioned and you then repeated as well, namely the problem that a government elected by a minority of eligible voters can easily become normalized even though they hold terrible positions.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
19. A few things on this video and some of the responses here
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 09:48 AM
Jul 2018

First the original poster titled it “opening the door to your own business” but in the video he says he was testing the security system.

That’s a really big difference. The title of this thread is inaccurate in a way that portrays this as someone worse than it is, intentionally, as are many other articles about it.

I looked and other stories he says he was trying to figure out a problem with the alarm system. If you have ever dealt with that you know in doing so you are going to set the alarm off, either because the problem you are trying to solve is that it’s goinh off when it shouldn’t or to make sure it’s working properly.

Now, there are two reasons for an alarm- to scare off a thief and to alert and draw in the police.

He set off the alarm and was on the phone with the alarm company when the police arrived. Either the alarm company called or someone heard the alarm and called, but either way it wasn’t a “person just unlocked a door” call but a “alarm is going off at a business” call.

Not the same.

That’s a HUGE difference. Because the police are supposed to come when you have an alarm go off and either the alarm company calls them or someone hears it and calls them.

Then people are outraged they asked him to prove he owns the business. Well yeah, when the police show up to an alarm call and someone is there that’s what you do, ask for proof they own the business or home or work/live there. They would be negligent to just take someone’s word. I never did.

The complaint multiple cars show up- yeah, for a call for a B&E in progress with a suspect possibly still on scene that’s what you do. Lots of those calls end up, when it’s actual criminals, turning into chases or with a suspect getting violent and if you come across a place where they have forced entry and you don’t know if someone is still inside you have to clear the building and make sure it’s empty. So yes, you respond with multiple units. Now if it were a call for one previously occurred and just found, well then you send one car for a report.

As to the idea that the officers should be disciplined for going on the call, for what reason? It appears they got a call for an alarm going off at a business. Do you want them to not respond to alarms going off? Or ask for the race of people on scene and vary responses accordingly? Same for the idea of them stopping responses, do you really want them to not respond to calls based on race? Should they flag this lemonade stand “owned by black man, don’t respond to future alarms or burglary calls”? Because that’s what it reads like some of you are advocating.

There are plenty of cases of people wrongfully calling police on people of color just living their lives. But this just absolutely doesn’t seem like one of them. The police showing up because you are messing around with the alarm on your business and set it off and then making sure you are the business owner is not anything wrong whatsoever- it’s how the system is supposed to work and it’s why the alarm is there.

This seems more like someone making a huge deal out of a routine police response to an alarm going off and pushing themselves off as a victim just to get some good publicity for a new business by piggybacking on the trend in the news to report legitimate cases of this happening.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
24. A business that involves getting people to pay $5 for 8 ounces of lemonade
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 06:30 PM
Jul 2018

By convincing them that it is "high end" or "gourmet" lemonade.

The ingredients are: organic lemon juice, filtered water, and organic cane sugar.

Now that's capitalism for you, I guess.

Edit to add: The regular price is actually $8 - the $5 price was a one-day special.

Response to Takket (Original post)

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
21. This isn't even that- he set off the alarm and they came
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 10:01 AM
Jul 2018

And it’s being portrayed as somehow racist.

Per his own words (you have to look for better articles on it) he was having trouble with the alarm and was on the phone with the alarm company when the police arrived- aka I set off the alarm by mistake or because it malfunctioned and had to call the alarm company. Because you don’t call the alarm company because the alarm didn’t go off when you didn’t want it to, you call when it did go off when you didn’t want it to.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
23. Things seem to have worked out well for him and his business
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 06:24 PM
Jul 2018
Gourmonade
July 22 at 2:16 PM
Thank you to everyone who came to support Gourmonade today! We sold out in a record breaking 2hours!!!!! Thank you to the Valencia community, residents and business owners for reassuring me that we are welcome here. Back to the kitchen! See you soon! Shazaam!

Amazing that there are so many people paying $5.00 for 8 ounces of lemonade.

(I'm still trying to figure out what "high end lemonade" is)

Edit to add: The regular price is actually $8 - the $5 price was a one-day special.
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