So, my brother had a run-in with a would-be burglar the other day.

[Coventina]

Let me preface by saying the burglar ran, because he thought no one would be home.
Nobody was hurt, although of course it was disturbing and my brother is thinking of raising the wall around his back yard.
(That's the way the guy got into the property).

However, when his wife (my sister in law) posted about it on Nextdoor, a wing nut had to post his opinion.
Copied here anonymously:

I'm glad no innocent people were hurt. Why didn't your husband defend himself with a gun? He could have been killed if the intruder decided to fight. I saw a couple of comments asking what the police were going to do to prevent this from happening again. I'll tell you what, Not a dam thing. How could they? It's not their job to prevent crime, there's already laws intended to do that, but as we all know, laws are only effective when you abide by them. The police are much more about reacting to a crime once it's over.

I also saw someone mention getting dogs. There are many recent cases where the dog was the reason for the break in, they easily distract the dog with some raw meat and then put a noose around it's neck and throw it in the trunk to be sold to the highest bidder or used for dogfighting. or eaten if you live in China. I also see people recommending cameras. While I agree cameras have become so cheap they should be in every home, if not coupled with a means of self defense they are limited to an after the fact tool.

It's up to you as an individual to protect yourself. If you can't do that you might want to think about hiring a personal bodyguard or 24/7 security, If these seems costly and or you value your privacy, your best option is a holster with a loaded gun in it. That's where I find peace of mind. It's being proactive so that when someone threatens your life in your own home, and the police want a description of the attacker you can point to the body on the floor and say, he looks like that.

********************************************************************

Who wears a gun around the house?
Unless my brother was literally carrying the gun on his person, the intruder could have used it against him!
My brother was in his home office, with the door shut, with his phone headphones on, on a conference call for his work when the guy broke in.
If the gun was not literally on him, or on his desk (and who would do that?) the gun becomes a liability to the person it's allegedly protecting.

Also, why are people so bloodthirsty?

The guy had grabbed their change jar, which he dropped as he fled.
My brother said, "I'm not gonna kill a guy over a change jar!"

[dchill]

1. "I'm not gonna kill a guy over a change jar!"-

Me either.

[Coventina]

3. Another comment was: "That guy would have left my house in a body bag!"

What the hell is WRONG with people?

[dchill]

5. The urge to kill is strong in the hateful and the fearful.

[Coventina]

6. I guess. It must be a miserable way to live. n/t

[dchill]

7. Yes. It's hateful and fearful, after all.

I know some of these people. Mix in a little pseudo-Christianity and you have a heady, bitter brew.

[Coventina]

10. Agree completely. Right wing Christianity operates on fear.

I was raised that way.

A big reason why I'm a Buddhist now.

[GulfCoast66]

48. Same reason I am a free thinker!

[Coventina]

49. Yes! I am so happy to be free of dogma.

[GulfCoast66]

50. Yep. Me too

I am not an atheist because there is not proof the is no god. But there is no proof there is a god.

One thing I can guarantee. The god evangelicals worship is a projection of their own thoughts.

[Coventina]

51. That's what I love about Buddhism. (In its most basic form)

It ignores the question of god(s). You take 100% responsibility for your own spiritual path.

It's not easy, but it is liberating.

The god of the evangelicals is abusive and emotionally immature. (as described in his scriptures)
It makes his followers into same.

[GulfCoast66]

63. Ironically. I wear a jade Buddha pendant around my neck at all times!

Not because I’m am a Buddhist. But it reminds me that we can all have a civilized philosophy without a god.

My wife bought it for me in Shanghai!

[Coventina]

65. Very cool!

[panader0]

9. I don't own anything that I would kill over.

Even my Gibson ES-335. I would defend Jeannie and myself, but it's a
goal of mine to never kill anyone.

[Coventina]

16. Agree completely.

I will admit: I would get (and have gotten) very bloodthirsty when my loved ones are threatened.
But I see that as completely different from threats to property.

My loved ones are not replaceable.

Stuff is stuff.

[Hoyt]

25. A 335, that's saying a lot. There have been gunners right here who have

said they’d shoot people in their carport or trying to steal their truck. To be fair, when pushed, they said they’d shoot over work tools or trucks.

That still amazes me, but that’s the way gunners think. And unarmed kids have been killed stealing a pink flamingo off the front lawn or throwing toilet paper.

Wish we’d do something to thwart these gunners.

I bet George Zimmerman said he’d never kill anyone, until he had a big fight with his wife and took it out on an unarmed, skinny Black kid.

[Eko]

27. Yeah,

I love my 02 Std SG, but kill someone for it? F that.

[frontierjoe]

29. Neither would I but there are people that would kill someone for it

I'm glad the person ran instead of confronting the home owner when he was caught.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I'm glad nobody was hurt!

And it seems to me that for every problem, there's a wingnut with a solution.

I agree with your brother.

SMH.

[Coventina]

4. My dear California Peggy, I do as well.

Burglars are thieves of opportunity.
Raising the back fence would have probably been a bigger discouragement than the idea, "maybe there's a homeowner lurking with a gun!"

[frontierjoe]

33. In my neck of the woods people who have been caught breaking into homes are meth heads

Not the most stable people you would like to confront in the middle of the night if caught inside your home.

And many times it's more than one. We had one break in where the home owner was beaten when he surprised them .
They thought no one was home.

[frontierjoe]

31. Her brother was lucky , that's all that happened

There's plenty of instances where the person who broke in was surprised by a home owner
and didn't run off . It turned violent .

[Ohiogal]

8. Who would wear a gun

on their person around the house? Every day? 24/7? In the shower??

A paranoid and fearful nutter, that's who.

It blows my mind when I hear them say they wear their gun to go mail a letter or eat dinner at the Red Lobster.... like we live in the Wild West or something.

Your brother sounds very sensible.

[Coventina]

11. IKR? It boggles the mind.

And yes, my brother is one of the most level-headed people I know.

I love him dearly and this was disturbing to hear about, but it doesn't make me think he should suddenly start bringing deadly weapons into his home!

[mythology]

34. I knew a park ranger (at a small Civil War re-enactment park)

who bragged about sleeping with his gun under his pillow. I'd be terrified I'd accidentally shoot myself in my sleep.

[hlthe2b]

12. I'd never have a gun in the house. I do have a pen-like pepper spray key chain at the front door

that I take with me on my long hikes and walks with my dog. Likewise, I have a humongous bear-spray canister (pepper spray) in the hall closet with my mountain hiking gear.

My community is relatively safe, but nowhere is totally safe. Still, I feel comfortable being able to look after myself. My current dog might (MIGHT) bark, but she would NEVER move from ingratiatingly friendly, even with a stranger, I'm convinced. But at 50 pounds she might give some people pause.

My thoughts on this date back to my teen years. My dad had a hand gun when I was growing up. One day, alone and home sick from school, I saw a stranger moving from garage to back sliding glass door (which, fortunately was locked). As he moved about outside, trying to find a way in, I got my Dad's gun. I have little doubt I would have used it had he come in and confronted me. I WILL FOREVER BE GRATEFUL I NEVER HAD TO DO SO. Finding no easy way in, he gave up and left. If I had used that gun, I don't think I'd have lived a single day in peace thereafter.

So, no guns for me. If I can reasonably take on a bear with my super duper pepper spray--as at least one of my friends has successfully done, then surely I have a chance against a human intruder.

[Coventina]

13. That is truly terrifying!

And, I feel as you do, if I HAD to use deadly force to defend myself, it would leave a scar that would never leave, even if my brain told me it was totally justified.

People seem to think that shooting someone is easy to do. Every time I've tried to imagine it, I am horrified.

[mercuryblues]

14. An alarm system works well.

and no one gets killed.

A friend had their home broken into. The alarm immediately went off. The thieves had 10 minutes to be in and out. They got a small TV, 2 laptops and the change jar. They did 7 years for that. Compared to my brother; when he was broken into the thieves had hours to rummage through his home and it was picked clean. those thieves are still free.

[Coventina]

15. Agreed that alarm systems are better than guns.

After all, an alarm system is there when you are not.

Unless you take your gun(s) with you, they just become another valuable commodity to steal.
(and a gun safe is not a guarantee, I had a friend who had his HUGE gun safe wrenched from his house with what must have been fairly heavy equipment).

[aikoaiko]

17. Locks, lights, alarms, and yes a gun in a quick access lock box in a desk draws is not a bad idea.

And one in quick access lockbox in the bedroom, too.

There are no guarantees with anything to stop a determined criminal, but its good to have options.

[Coventina]

18. So, one must have multiple guns in multiple hiding places around one's home?

That seems really extreme, unless one is an international spy or something.

[aikoaiko]

26. Different strokes for different folks.

On one hand, you say that unless one carries a gun they won't get to it in time, but you scoff at the suggestion of safely storing 2 guns in places were your bro spends time.

I have three fire extinguishers located in different places in my house because I might need them and don't want to run around looking for one.

[mythology]

35. You can store a fire extinguisher safely on the kitchen counter.

A gun in the same place would be rather stupid and unsafe.

[aikoaiko]

37. They make small biometric lockboxes no bigger than the Joy of Cooking.

It's a smart and safe way to keep a gun on the kitchen counter, cupboard, or drawer if you wanted to do so.

[frontierjoe]

45. There's nothing wrong with owning a gun if the person who owns it is responsible

In my cabin I have a rifle , no handgun
Never really cared for them.

[Coventina]

39. Yes, I scoff at the idea that guns in the home are generally a good idea.

The statistics are pretty clear on this.

[frontierjoe]

53. A good idea really doesn't play a role in it

It's just another measure of protection from anything that might wish harm on me.
I take mine in the jeep when I leave my home . I don't leave it in my cabin.

My closet neighbor or a town is over 30 miles away and highway patrol is an hour away so I'm responsible for my own protection be it from a 2 legged animal or 4 legged one.

[Coventina]

55. Somehow I've managed to live all my life without needing a gun.

I'm still here.

[frontierjoe]

59. So have I

except for putting down injured animals that were left to die a slow painful death.

[Coventina]

60. I understand that rural living might call for mercy killings.

That's very different than owning a handgun for "personal protection."

[frontierjoe]

61. I don't even own a handgun and I'm not a person who would encourage someone to buy one

But I would understand it if a person was responsible and wanted to keep one in their home for it.

[Coventina]

62. The statistics on that suggest that doing so is a bad idea.

Everyone is a "responsible gun owner" until they aren't.

[frontierjoe]

64. All I can talk about is my point of reference not other peoples.

[Coventina]

66. That's why statistical studies are important.

Our own personal reference points are extremely limited.

[frontierjoe]

67. I just don't look at people that way

Because x number did this it doesn't mean the other x number will also do the same .

Everyone is different

[Coventina]

68. Everyone is different yes. But reality is reality.

[frontierjoe]

69. I'm talking about my reality

Not numbers some think tank made . Do you know how many people own a gun in the U.S ?

I'm asking , I don't know
I never bothered to look up something like that . Just a guess but I bet it's in the 10's of millions
Now you made me look it up .

Compared in % that's less than most deaths that involve , malpractice , over dose , car accidents probably over a host of others.



The First Estimate of 2017 Gun Deaths Is In


Excluding most suicides, at least 15,549 people were killed by guns in the United States in 2017, according to data collected by Gun Violence Archive (GVA), a nonprofit organization that tracks media and law enforcement reports of shootings.

[Coventina]

81. You can make up whatever you want for your reality.

The rest of us don't live there.

[frontierjoe]

71. From what I could find the estimates are

22% to 32 % of all homes in America have at least one gun .

That's why I don't lump everyone in the same category .

That's a lot of people and everyone is different . So by the stats you say then there should be more deaths
by gun ownership but in reality the number is actually very, very low in percentage .

15,000 deaths compared to tens of millions of people who own a gun.
And those numbers include police shootings

[Coventina]

83. Still doesn't change the fact that most guns kept for "protection"

more often end up used against the owners.

[Tipperary]

75. There was a murder in your neighborhood not too long ago, right

Now burglars. Eek. I hope you have something for protection.

[Coventina]

78. There have been multiple murders in my neighborhood.

And a couple who committed suicide together.

I think it's something in the water. (We live on a superfund site)

[ProudLib72]

19. This is a response from someone who does not think ahead

RWNJs are NOT critical thinkers, so we shouldn't put much stock into their opinions.

Our house was broken into years ago, and we had a dog. When I came home, the dog was hiding in the back yard. We think the burglars might have kicked or hit him. He sure was scared. Getting a dog is not the answer to burglars. I am, however, all for getting dogs (and plenty of them) just because I love dogs.

[Coventina]

20. Agree about the dogs. I do know statistically they are a deterrent.

If they are barkers, they make more noise than burglars want to deal with, unless they are determined.

I know my GSD is intimidating, although he is really friendly in public.
At home he's very protective. I don't know what he'd actually do with a burglar, though.

But, I love dogs and agree the more the merrier (as long as they are able to form pack bonds, sometimes the personalities just don't mesh).

[Rorey]

23. I think they're great notifiers if you're home

I don't have dogs now, but when I did have them, I was thankful when they alerted me. I definitely slept better when I had them.

I'm so sorry your dog got hurt. I hope karma gets your burglars.

[ProudLib72]

38. We don't know exactly what happened of course, but there was evidence

Inside the house we found a two foot long piece of door jamb with a screw sticking out of it. Why was it several yards inside the house? We think this might have been what they used to fend off our dog.

This was a burglar gang. They were well known in the neighborhood as four other houses had been hit by the same gang. The people next to us were renting. They got hit, and their big old rottie didn't scare away the burglars. They left soon thereafter.

We got a security system immediately. I don't think I will ever get over being burglarized. It's going to be on my mind wherever I live from now on.

[Rorey]

73. I would imagine that the worst part....

was that they were in your house (and that they hurt your dog, of course). I've had car break-ins a couple of times and it bothered me most that the yucks were in my car. It never felt the same after that.

I had a 125 pound Rottie a long time ago. His bark was ferocious, but he was a big old baby. But I was his favorite person, and I'm quite sure if someone tried to hurt me, he'd have taken them out. Once he was sound asleep on our bed (he was pretty spoiled), and I was walking past my husband who was sitting at the kitchen table. My husband playfully reached out and grabbed me and I heard a big thunk and then my Rottie was there with his mouth around my husband's arm. He didn't bite down, but he also didn't let go until he was sure I was okay. My husband was very impressed.

[sinkingfeeling]

44. Years ago, I awoke one night to moving flashlights and yelling.

I went downstairs and opened the front door and was told they were police and were after an escapee. They told me to go back inside as they were pulling a man out from under my front porch.
The man had run across a creek, through my woods, and crawled under the porch, only to be confronted by 3 of my dogs. One was a 110 pound Komondor. Deeogee just kept doing her thing. A booming "ARF", repeated every second.
Police said it was her barking that led them to my front yard and the capture.

I have lived alone for the last 46 years. I won't allow a gun in my home and have never had a break in. I have owned a house in 7 different states, in some large cities, like Ft. Worth. I have always had dogs. Most were marshmallows, but large enough to make men afraid to exit their cars!

[ProudLib72]

46. Now that's something to think about. A strange looking dog might be scarier than just a big dog

You get both with the Komondor. "What's this Rastafarian beast coming after me? I better hide!"

[Rorey]

21. We have a security system

I kind of think the cameras are a deterrent. My husband wanted them to be hidden. I wanted them to be seen.

They were NOT a deterrent twice in the last three nights. We wuz wobbed. Three masked bandits. Raccoons. I'll have to start picking up the cat food before I go to bed every night. Hopefully the cats who stop by for a snack will adjust to the new schedule.

[Coventina]

22. Trash pandas are indifferent to cameras.

Their disguises are pretty secure!

[Rorey]

24. Trash pandas

I suppose they're a little cute if you don't look too close. Their teeth are sharp and so are their claws. One time a week or so ago, I was sitting at my desk and looked up to see them on the monitor. I ran to the door to chase them away, and two of them tried to stand their ground. Unbelievable.

[KT2000]

28. this is someone

who is anxious to kill.

[Coventina]

40. That's the impression I get as well.

I don't get it at all.

[hunter]

30. Gun fetishists live in a sordid Hollywood fantasy world.

Personally, I don't let anyone I'd care to shoot live in my head.

It's my experience that once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.

[Coventina]

41. I agree. The statistics are very clear on that.

Owning just one gun is a huge responsibility, but they just wanna play Dirty Harry.

[Bayard]

32. I have two sets of security systems

The first is three Great Pyrenees, all over 130 pounds with barks to match. The cacophony when someone comes on our property, let alone at the door, is deafening. Oh--and one mini-wiener dog.

The second is five geese that hate everybody but me, and have no problem chasing people and nipping at their legs. It sometimes embarrassing when friends are afraid to get out of their cars, but I can live with that.

We have a little farm in the country. The house was broken into once, before we bought it, by the local "meth-heads", so we were told. My husband is gone for a month at a time for his job. If all else fails, yes, I have a shotgun. On a farm, you need one for more than protection. I've had to put down animals a couple times when they were already dying miserably. It broke my heart to do it, but it was my responsibility.

I've had to fight for my life twice. Once 25 years ago when I was out for a run and a guy came after me with a butcher knife. The second involved the evil neighbors when I lived in Calif. A restraining order did not stop them.

It does change your attitude a bit, but not enough to make me pack a pistol.

[Coventina]

42. How horrifying! How did you fight off the knife wielder?

Back when I was in high school, a guy tried to abduct me, but gave up when it was clear I wasn't going to go quietly.

Fortunately for me, he had no weapons. (Neither did I).

[Bayard]

72. I was training for a half-marathon at the time

(Did I mention this was 25 years ago? ) I was in the best shape of my life. He jumped out of the bushes, grabbed me, and said come on or I'll cut you. I kicked him in the shin and took off running. There was a median in the middle of the road that had trees planted along it. He caught up one time, and I wrapped my arms around one tree and wouldn't let go. Then I out raced him to the guard shack of this building. The cops caught him trying to run up the interstate. I only ended up with some scabby knees where he tried to drag me on the asphalt.

From then on I started running with this nifty little martial arts weapon. Brass, with two holes that your first two fingers go thru, and about 3" spikes sit on top of your knuckles.

[3catwoman3]

36. My husband has a friend he has known since they met...

...while serving in the Air Force together in Viet Nam in the early 70s. Last fall, he discovered that this guy keeps a gun in every room of his house. Sonewhat incredulous, my husband asked, "Even in the bathroom?" The answer was "Yes."

My husband found this disgusting, and said to me, "If I weren't his friend already, I don't think I'd be his friend now."

We dont live near him, (we are in Illinois and he is in South Carolina) so we don't have to worry about an invitation to his house of horrors.

[Coventina]

43. That, to me, sounds like someone living in perpetual fear.

It strikes me as sick and sad at the same time.

[3catwoman3]

70. I agree. I cannot even imagine...

...living like that.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

47. They lust so much over the idea of killing a person and getting away with it. . . . nt

[Coventina]

52. IKR? It's just so sick. n/t

[mnhtnbb]

54. More guns do not stop more crimes, evidence shows

That's the headline of an article from Scientific American from 2017.

The subheading is

More firearms do not keep people safe, hard numbers show. Why do so many Americans believe the opposite?

Most of this research—and there have been several dozen peer-reviewed studies—punctures the idea that guns stop violence. In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not.

So what does the research say? By far the most famous series of studies on this issue was conducted in the late 1980s and 1990s by Arthur Kellermann, now dean of the F. Edward Hébert School of Medicine at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, and his colleagues. In one, published in 1993 in the New England Journal of Medicine and funded by the CDC, he and his colleagues identified 444 people who had been killed between 1987 and 1992 at home in three U.S. regions—Shelby County, Tennessee, King County, Washington State, and Cuyahoga County, Ohio—and then collected details about them and their deaths from local police, medical examiners and people who had been close to the victims. They found that a gun in the home was associated with a nearly threefold increase in the odds that someone would be killed at home by a family member or intimate acquaintance.

More than 30 peer-reviewed studies, focusing on individuals as well as populations, have been published that confirm what Kellermann's studies suggested: that guns are associated with an increased risk for violence and homicide. “There is really uniform data to support the statement that access to firearms is associated with an increased risk of firearm-related death and injury,” Wintemute concludes. Gun advocates argue the causes are reversed: surges in violent crime lead people to buy guns, and weapons do not create the surge. But if that were true, gun purchases would increase in tandem with all kinds of violence. In reality, they do not.

Although we do not yet know exactly how guns affect us, the notion that more guns lead to less crime is almost certainly incorrect. The research on guns is not uniform, and we could certainly use more of it. But when all but a few studies point in the same direction, we can feel confident that the arrow is aiming at the truth—which is, in this case, that guns do not inhibit crime and violence but instead make it worse.

The whole article is worth the read. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-show

[Coventina]

56. There are posters in this thread who disagree with the facts.

[mnhtnbb]

57. Seems to be a lot of that going around on a lot of topics these days.

[Coventina]

58. Agree, facts no longer seem to matter.

[Raine]

74. I'm in a burb of Los Angeles County here we have wild coyotes

they've been killing people's pets, cats and dogs. The city seems clueless on what to do but the idiots in the area have been discussing a solution of there own, getting guns and bows and arrows and killing them themselves! Oh real great a bunch of untrained know it all morons running around with guns and bows and arrows and shooting at anything that moves. I fear more from those fools then I do from the coyotes. The problem is man made, over development has forced the coyotes to come closer and closer to people to find food and pets are what they're finding. I certainly am heartbroken about anybody's beloved pet being killed but I don't like the thought of these crazed people armed is horrifying.

[Coventina]

79. Agree with you completely. Gun toting vigilantes are dangerous.

And, after all, the coyotes were there first!

[beachbum bob]

76. I have a simple rule, any one in my house or garage without my invite will face my Glock

[Coventina]

80. Yee haw!

[beachbum bob]

82. I know. Uninvited guests I assume mean harm to my household.

It's at their own peril to be uninvited insides my property.

[GreenEyedLefty]

77. As someone whose house was actually burglarized...

I feel like I can actually comment since for me this was not a what if scenario.

My break-in took place at the end of January, 2014. Coming home from work, I noticed a car backed into my neighbor's driveway directly across the street with a clear view of my house. This was unusual, so I made a mental note of the make and model. The windows were tinted so I could not see who was inside.

I had to take my daughter to swim practice that evening. I also had a doctor's appointment, so I took my son with us as well (normally he would stay home).

Long story short, I arrived home at 7:30 p.m. Someone had thrown a brick through my patio door wall. They came in and took a box of change (we emptied our change jars into it). They also took a ring and a few rolls of quarters from our daughter's room. Our bedroom was completely trashed. Thankfully they did not ransack my kids' rooms.

The takeaway from this experience:
It was most likely a scuzzy friend of our neighbor's. Probably not employed, very probably wanting or needing drug money. I have no proof of this, but the car in question was parked at my neighbor's who is a known pot dealer and has questionable friends. I believe this person had someone outside waiting in the car.

My break-in fit with the statistics.
-Usually a crime of opportunity. Usually the perpetrator watches and waits until the house is empty. A gun would not have helped with this.
-The top 3 items stolen are cash (including change), jewelry and guns. Theft, including home invasion, is one of the top ways that "bad guys get guns."

If I had access to a gun, and if I were home, and if I had confronted the intruder (all of this statistically highly unlikely), it is far more likely that the gun would have been used on me or my family (statistics confirm this as well).

The best way to prevent major property loss in the event of a break-in, is to never store anything of value in the master bedroom. My document safe, jewelry box, etc. are kept in other areas of the house.

This experience has been valuable on a number of fronts. The best thing about it is that I can shut down right wing gun nuts whenever I see bullshit like what the OP posted above.

PS - I have a dog. She was terrified. I was surprised she stayed in the house as there was a gaping hole in the patio door glass. Not sure if she was abused during the break-in. Probably greeted the intruder(s) like long lost friends.