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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo, your Trump-is-gay-for-Putin jokes aren't funny
Trump is ineffectual, and even dangerous, in his foreign policy. Gay romance metaphors do not convey this reality they obscure it.
By Meredith Loken July 17
Meredith Loken is an incoming assistant professor in the department of political science at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst.
On Monday, as President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin met in Helsinki for their controversial summit, the New York Times Opinion sections Twitter page circulated an animated video titled Trump and Putin: A Love Story. The newspaper described the video: Donald Trumps not-so-secret admiration for Vladimir Putin plays out in a teenagers bedroom, where the fantasies of this forbidden romance come to life. The shirtless men kiss passionately, ride unicorns through fields of rainbows and daydream about one another over pink and purple landscapes.
The video is deeply homophobic, using the possibility of gay sexuality to belittle both men. Whats more, its the product of a journalistic trend that uses gay romance as a metaphor for political weakness and inefficiency. As any feminist security-studies scholar will tell you, these lazy, dangerous narratives result from the entrenchment of masculinity and heterosexuality in U.S. foreign policy. They trickle down from the ways we talk about security in our military institutions, and they have profound implications for the safety and security of queer people around the world.
Gay romantic depictions of Trumps relationships with foreign leaders often propagate when his diplomatic strategies are most ill conceived. After Trump initially canceled his summit with North Koreas Kim Jong Un, The Washington Posts David Ignatius called Trumps cancellation notice a breakup letter and concluded that he writes in the tone of a wounded suitor. After the summit, the Boston Globe printed a cartoon that featured Trump and Kim sharing a milkshake and writing love letters against a backdrop of hearts, a unicorn and a rainbow. The cartoon asks, Will it be true love or just a
Singapore fling? The New York Timess Frank Bruni (who is gay and often writes about gay rights) described Trumps conciliatory attitude toward Putins interference in the 2016 election as that of a besotted lover. He called it a classic tale of affections strangled and at times set free. Last year, Stephen Colbert faced a backlash after looking into the camera and telling Trump, The only thing your mouth is good for is being Vladimir Putins c holster.
These depictions attack Trumps desire to appear powerful and legitimate abroad by emasculating and reducing him to a purportedly unmanly act. The persistence of such narratives in a liberalizing climate of gay rights seems perplexing. However, they result in part from the ingrained expectations of a particular type of manhood in U.S. institutions. Specifically, we can trace them to hyper-masculinity in the military.
Military recruits and strategists undergo socializations that force them to reject femininity and adopt alpha, warrior mentalities. Men are expected to control emotions; take risks; display aggression, violence and physical toughness; and promote overt heterosexuality. These processes are often sexual. For example, in some military training, soldiers chant, This is my rifle [holding up rifle], this is my gun [motioning to penis]; ones for killing, the others for fun. Carol Cohn recalls working with defense strategists at a universitys center on defense technology and arms control, where she observed white men in ties discussing missile size. They spoke of vertical erector launchers
deep penetration, and the comparative advantages of protracted versus spasm attacks or what one military adviser to the National Security Council has called releasing 70 to 80 percent of our megatonnage in one orgasmic whump. In interactions with defense officials, she encountered discussion of whether political leaders had the stones for war.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/17/no-your-trump-is-gay-for-putin-jokes-arent-funny/
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)with being homosexual.
It's about power and not preferences.
I've tried to walk a fine line between mocking as gay and showing that trump would do whatever putin wanted, be it licking his asshole or walking next to him on all fours wearing a dog leash.
I'll keep trying to show that it's about submissiveness and make it less about sexual preference.
Others make prison sex (rape) jokes which I will not, but 9 times out of 10 that's a power trip and not about preference either. It's an ownership thing.
Hell, I'll probably even delete this if it offends.
FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)...sexist jokes tend to say more about the one making (in your comments case, gay rape) jokes than the ostensible subject of the joke.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)I said I dont make sexist or gay rape jokes, but I guess you didn't read, too eager to throw out "straightsplaining", I get it it's catchy. When we call trump a bootlicker it's about his impassioned support of putin, not about some shoe fetish sexual thing, but once again, I get it it's easier to call names instead of discussing merits.
Like I said, I make nonsexual submissive references, but thanks for racing to vicitmhood and missing the point.
Enjoy your clever name calling.
brer cat
(24,544 posts)Well, that didn't last long.
mythology
(9,527 posts)You could say Trump is Putin's lackey, his minion, but instead you go for sexual metaphors. You can argue all day long that you don't mean in that sense, but as long as you are still using sexual metaphors, even if you are 100% right about your intentions (and given the pervasiveness of social conditioning, I doubt you are), others will still interpret them in the way those metaphors are traditionally used.
To put it another way, if I went around using the n word, I wouldn't expect my attempts to claim I didn't mean it in a racial way to go over very well.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)I said that if I make references it's about submission and not sex.
I've never made the prison rape jokes that get immediately slammed, rightfully so.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)And further indict others for the very thing you defend.
tavernier
(12,374 posts)Putin could just as well be female. If she had Trumps balls in her pocket, we would be cartooning that as well.
Its all about power IMO.
Nitram
(22,776 posts)his flying monkey. Drop the gay jokes, please. Try to catch up.
syringis
(5,101 posts)I understand your point of view. I was thinking the same thing until I posted a picture with a homosexual caption. Following some reactions which, I specify it, were politely expressed, I explained that I did not aim at the LGBT community in any case but that it was a metaphor. I deleted the image leaving only the link and a warning about the sensitive content. One member replied that yes, it is easy to understand the metaphor, but it was still hurtful. I erased the post, but more importantly, it gave me something to think about.
I understood that it was not the LGBT community that had a disproportionate reaction, but we were wrong to use this metaphor.
Because, on the one hand, it has little relevance and, on the other hand, it is becoming dangerously commonplace to the detriment of a minority when, precisely, the rights of minorities, particularly with regard to sexual orientation, are very seriously threatened.
Even if, out of habit, we don't always think about it, we should really stop making this kind of harmful comparison for LGBTs but also for women. To say that Trump is Putin's whore and to imply that women are little more than objects is just as dangerous.
Ezior
(505 posts)As someone else said: We could make those same jokes if Putin was a female leader. The jokes might involve strap-ons, a dog leash, and a whip; or simply a hetero romance between Trump and the female leader. Since Putin and Trump are both male, the jokes are a little different and involve gay submissive sex practices or romantic feelings between men.
Generally, I do not take offense in those jokes, and I don't think they are homophobic when done correctly.
Making a joke that involves gay sex is not automatically homophobic.
I am offended by jokes that imply negative things about gay men. Like jokes that are "funny" because you must be careful around gay people because they apparently just rape other men randomly (prison, soap, etc).
Implying that Trump is submissive and follows Putin's orders, not only in geopolitics, but also in the bedroom, is not offensive to gay people in general in my opinion.
But, the jokes might be in poor taste for different reasons. For example, a joke about Putin raping Trump can easily be offensive to actual rape victims or anyone who knows or feels sympathy for rape victims (i.e. hopefully everyone).
Ms. Toad
(34,055 posts)as I 've said repeatedly. And I've been on alert time-out at least 3 times since the summit because juries have apparently decided that it's just hunky dory to recycle all the negative stereotypes about gays if it makes Trump and his supporters upset.
You can insinuate Trump is submissive wihtout using memes that suggest that submissiveness is a characteristic of being gay, or that being gay is bad. Just stop with any posts suggesting a bromance, or Trump's face inPutin's crotch, etc.
They aren't gay. And it is an insult to LGBT people to use being gay to bash them.
(As for prison rape jokes - they are also incredibly offensive.)
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Maybe learn a bit more.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)You clearly have no idea what youre talking about.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Homosexuality and submissiveness are two different things. Now if you attempted to make a bj reference, and conflated that will submissiveness, they it is one hundred percent bigotry.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Bettie
(16,083 posts)because that is non-sexual (at least to me it simply gives a picture of someone excessively eager to please) but still conveys the utter submissiveness he displays around Putin.
Also, no self-respecting unicorn would come within a hundred miles of either of those two.
FakeNoose
(32,613 posts)The Polack MSgt
(13,186 posts)The engine that drives those jokes is the belief that gay sex is a weak, shameful activity.
Our country is controlled by a 2 bit criminal in thrall to a murderous dictator - And Cock holster and bottom jokes are your response?
Fucking weak dude
aeromanKC
(3,322 posts)Trump is Putin's ATM machine.
Twisty
(31 posts)If Putin were a woman the same jokes and cartoons would still apply.
If you want to be offended, be offended. Personally, Ive seen much worse in porn...
Ms. Toad
(34,055 posts)I'm not terribly concerned about your opinion. (Just as most blacks aren't terribly concerned about your opinion if you think you've seen worse than using the N word.)
Roy Rolling
(6,911 posts)Making a joke about being gay is insensitive. It is a condition of human life, no more, no less.
Trump's affection for Putin being romantic--- not political---is funny.
Some cartoons can illustrate that nuance without being offensive to gay people, some are clumsy and offensive.
All of should not cross that line into being offensive. But I find it funny that Trump-Putin secret meetings are less like tradional political summits and more like being on a date.
What isn't funny, is an entire article "straightsplaining" to me ,as one commenter called it, that making jokes about gay people isn't funny. Well, duh. It's comedy. Bad comedy in some instances. But an article explaining in great detail how it is wrong to be cruel to gay people is an insult to my intelligence.
I Police my own language, I don't need a language police force to keep me in line.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)We joke about all kinds of conditions of life: getting wet, needing to use the toilet, going bald, being hungry, being horny, dying, etc. Being gay is just one of those, fodder for comics.
Where it crosses the line is where it cast as a negative. When rednecks say "That is so gay" as a putdown is a negative.
But a bromance or even gay affection between two male leaders is fair game as a trope to illustrate one fawning on the other and the other accepting the affection as a means of control or expression of dominance.
With reference to Trump-Putin, please see my post #16 in this thread, especially as to the more extreme tropes essentially turning into casting gayness or sexual submission as a negative.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)When you gave feedback in your post (re "straightsplaining" for example) it could just as easily be taken as "policing" as taken as feedback.
We discuss use of language with each other as feedback. Feedback is how we learn!
If I get a lot of negative feedback on some use of language, I don't jump to call it "policing". I consider it for what it is: feedback; other people letting me know what they think. It's how I learn about how language is used, about the effects it can have, and how to better align my language with my perspective and philosophy for more effective communication.
If a person doesn't want to accept that they might have something to learn, they will find it easy to dismiss feedback as "policing".
You don't seem to be a person like that, I think, so your post's last line is a bit strange.
NY_20th
(1,028 posts)How hard is it to not be an insensitive jerk?
It reminds me of the lame right wing talking point that civil rights are "identity politics".
robbob
(3,523 posts)...some kind of bromance. With or without the sexual overtones, the idea that there is some kind of mutual affection or admiration there is utter nonsense.
Putin eyes tRump with scorn and contempt. tRump has the air of a beaten dog. His servile obsequious just illustrates how much komprat Putin has on him. Meanwhile, Putin doesnt even offer a firm denial when asked about having influence over tRump, instead leaving him twisting in the breeze.
NOT a relationship of equals: its owner and owned.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)ecstatic
(32,677 posts)Putin's Bitch on Twitter. I feel it's fitting. Is that wrong?
robbob
(3,523 posts)tRump has neither the dignity, loyalty, or intelligence of a dog. Hes the human equivalent of a cockroach. Apologies to all cockroaches.
onecaliberal
(32,811 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)Excerpt does make some excellent points. There are some images and evocation of imagery that are homophobic or that try to portray a homosexual aspect as "bad" or negative. And the military machoism is legendary and they do overdo it.
But a lot of the Putin-Trump memes and tropes are essentially about tRump getting close to Putin, cuddling Putin, smooching, holding hands, that kind of stuff. If one or the other were female there'd hardly be an eye batted. However the more extreme ones that hint at or starkly suggest fellatio (such as knee pads or kneeling, etc.) would be deemed offensive if a women were portrayed in tRump's position. Those tropes should be discarded regardless of gender / orientation of depicted participants.
snowybirdie
(5,222 posts)I've always thought making homosexual references was an insult to the LBGQT community. Same goes for referring to any republican woman as a c--t. Insulting! Let's improve our volcabularies and use words that mean something!
dawg
(10,622 posts)What I think:
I think jokes like that aren't necessarily implying that being gay is an insulting thing, they're just mocking the overwhelming attachment and adoration Trump appears to have for Putin.
What matters:
Many gay men find such jokes offensive and believe they equate homosexuality with weakness and subservience.
I think it's best to listen to, and give deference to, people who say they are offended by something.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Implications of Trump's subservience to Putin is not the same as insulting LGBTQ folks. It could apply if Putin were a woman. However, jokes directly referencing homosexual sexual acts as demeaning are beyond the pale, IMO.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,105 posts)Nitram
(22,776 posts)designed to get Trump's goat, but it distracts from the real danger of Trump's treason. That is not a joke. And gay jokes are not really funny anymore unless you still live in a homophobic world.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)to a romantic relationship that men in politics don't normally have. It's just pointing out a similarity and is descriptive.
???
robbob
(3,523 posts)No bromance, owner and owned.
JohnnyRingo
(18,622 posts)A large percentage of jokes will offend someone these days, and the internet gives the offended a megaphone. Seinfeld and Maher won't even do gigs on college campuses anymore for that reason.
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BannonsLiver
(16,342 posts)The deplorables are on message 100 percent of the time, 7 days a week, 365 a year, and are destroying our democracy forever.
But hey at least we will have this sorted. I dont know about you but it sure brings me comfort
JohnnyRingo
(18,622 posts)Dear Annie:
Every time I log onto the internet, my feelings are hurt. I know it's not me, but everyone else who neglects to consider my personal situation, so I stay up all night arguing. How can I make them all stop posting?
-Sleepless in Cyberspace
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)... still allowed to be considered funny?
Because I burst out laughing.
Not because I think dildos are even necessarily purchased by men more than women (the opposite in my time working at adult stores), but because Putin is such a homophobe and professed (though likely hypocritical) sexual puritan that associating him with rubber dicks I think would make HIM uncomfortable, and I enjoy rattling cages of people like him.
There's the extremely sad fact that under Putin's "leadership", HIV infection rates are increasing dramatically -- but they're relying on the country listening to the Eastern Orthodox Church about being a virgin until marriage, etc, to solve it. They have repressed homosexuality so severely that the M2M transmission rates aren't even counted but are still making up a tiny percentage in the "Other" category compared to heterosexual transmission. And all it takes is sex, not necessarily homosexual sex, to transmit the virus -- Putin may be a bigot, but HIV is equal opportunity.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/25/russia-hiv-aids-epidemic-social-conservatism-orthodox-church-217011
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)I love her show, but not the graphic gay-mocking skits whenever Chump/Putin are mentioned. And always referring to the dispicable Lindsey Graham as Miss Lindsey is not right. I think she's egged on by her painfully unfunny co-host/producer, Travis. Again, Stephanie's great otherwise.
LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)Have been long-time listeners to her show and they love it, and they laugh @ the Miss Lindsey clutches his pearl bits. 4 of my friends went to her Sexy Liberal Tour last year, and tell me that they weren't even offended @ the gay jokes told on the tour. And, they love Stephanie & Travis (Both of whom are lesbian/gay themselves) Just stating what my friends who are gay/lesbian tell me tht they think of Stephanie, Travis the "jokes" on her show et al.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)Maybe I'm being too PC. Also I'm finding that Travis annoys the hell out of me with his insipid prattle. I just wish Jim Ward would come back and bring the funny.
FreeState
(10,570 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)That said, as a straight white guy I generally try to avoid stereotypes that can have the potential to offend
Behind the Aegis
(53,936 posts)Sadly, unlike "white privilege" and "male privilege", "heterosexual privilege" is largely ignored, overlooked, or outright scoffed. People, some, have no problems straightsplainin' to GLB people. They use the same pathetic excuses, they themselves mock when directed at ethnic minorities or women, such as "some of my best friends are...", but my "wife, sister, daughter, mother, etc. says...", and "here is a GLB person who agrees with me!" Frankly, I find the amount of homophobia coming from the left disturbing, and the excuses are even worse. The GLB community is under attack, and honestly, I don't think most people care!
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,055 posts)I've been on at least 3 24-hour alert time-outs since the meeting for alerting on posts that are clearily using the homosexuality to belittle both men (and insult the LGBT community in the process). These posts are clearly a violation of TOS - yet not a single person has voted to hide them.
I'm about to the point of taking my unicorn and going home - the environment around here is so hostile to LGBT individuals that it feels as if we're back in the gay purge days of DU.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Apparently, some duers never got out of 8th grade.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...when it's clear the president is being both blackmailed and bribed.
Sneederbunk
(14,286 posts)You may have come to the wrong place.