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shockey80

(4,379 posts)
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 11:48 AM Jul 2018

Conspiracy to Commit Espionage.

Mueller has proven this was an espionage attack on America. Therefore, any American Mueller can prove was helping Russia will be charged with Conspiracy to Commit Espionage. There are many federal laws pertaining to espionage. The penalties are severe.

This is just a guess, I believe Trump is the number one target of an espionage investigation. I believe Mueller has the proof . We will find out very soon.

Hillary called it back during one of the debates. Remember when she called Trump a puppet? Right before she said that she said to Trump, Conspiracy to Commit Espionage.

This week the Manafort trial begins. One of the charges against Manafort is conspiracy. This trial will send Manafort to prison for life. This trial could be very bad news for Trump.

Soon Cohen will be charged. He will try and make a deal. That will be very bad news for Trump.

New York State is going after the Trump foundation for tax fraud. They can get his tax returns. That would be very bad news for Trump.

Soon Mueller will indict people who were conspiring with Russia. They will try and make a deal. That will be bad news for Trump.

Trump doesn't know it yet, but Hell is coming for him. He is going to pay a big price for all his crimes.

Many people think no matter what the charges are nothing will happen to Trump. The Republicans will protect him. I disagree, I believe the charges will be so severe Congress will be forced to act. Lets hope I am right.

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dawg day

(7,947 posts)
1. Yes-- he clings to the term "collusion"-- No collusion!
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 11:50 AM
Jul 2018

But that's because the actual crime (and it is a crime) is "conspiracy".

Mr.Bill

(24,253 posts)
13. Much if not most of the republican congress.
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 02:48 PM
Jul 2018

And that is why I fear when the Mueller investigation all becomes public, they will simply ignore it.

cornball 24

(1,474 posts)
4. Let me say WHEN this happens, does anyone think that the Trumplicans in Congress will
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 12:00 PM
Jul 2018

be tripping over each other to be the "first" to jump off the trump wagon?

in2herbs

(2,944 posts)
5. I agree but believe that the road for progress will be difficult and I base that comment
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 12:00 PM
Jul 2018

on my belief that the reason the Republican Party is not doing anything against Trump is because it is wholly controlled by the NRA, which is wholly controlled by Putin/Russia. No NRA no Republican Party. I see signs that Mueller is trying to break the NRA's grip and I hope the efforts are successful because unless we break the NRA we can't break Russia's influence on the deplorables in the USA. Kudos also to the Parkland students for their GOTV efforts.

On the bright side: I read an article/comment the other day which claimed that HRC could have won by as many as 18 million more votes and the reason she didn't was because of voter restrictions. If the GOTV efforts are successful in registering and getting even half of these people to vote in November (and beyond) the blue wave will be astronomical and reverberate throughout the free world.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
6. The espionage statute deals with defense information.
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 12:07 PM
Jul 2018

Espionage is the crime of spying on the federal government for the purpose of transferring state secrets to a foreign country. 18 U.S. Code § 793 sets out the specific acts and allows for the prosecution of anyone who "for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation..." collects or attempts to collect national defense information. The prosecution of an espionage case requires proving that (1) the information transmitted is classified government information or relates to national defense; (2) the defendant acted with the intent or reason to believe the information will harm the United States or help a foreign nation (not necessarily an "enemy" of the United States); and (3) there was either a willful communication, transfer, or receipt of the information or an overt act in furtherance of a conspiracy to commit espionage.

The material hacked from DNC servers was not classified defense information. If anybody has been giving state secrets to the Russians that's espionage; but it's not espionage to try to sabotage an opponent's political campaign. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump had done that but not during the campaign; he didn't have any state secrets until after he was elected and briefed by the IC.

Espionage is a very specific crime. I doubt that much of what Mueller is uncovering would be considered espionage because most of it occurred before the election and the suspects did not have access to national defense secrets. However, there are many, many other crimes being investigated, most of which probably involve money laundering as well as computer hacking.

RockRaven

(14,916 posts)
10. Given the bolded section, classified information OR information related defense counts...
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 12:26 PM
Jul 2018

and Clinton's emails whilst Sec State -- which Trump publicly called on Russia to hack and release -- would have contained some classified material. Did he commit an overt act though? Maybe Mueller will answer that.

So there's a fact pattern still to prove, but it is not completely off the table yet.

Mr.Bill

(24,253 posts)
15. Yes, remember people have been convicted of espionage
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 02:51 PM
Jul 2018

for selling secrets to Israel, who is hardly our enemy or at war with us.

 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
7. Like I said
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 12:12 PM
Jul 2018

There are many federal laws pertaining to espionage. Not all of them are about National defense secrets.

JohnnyRingo

(18,619 posts)
8. Butina is facing a max of five years for conspiracy.
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 12:15 PM
Jul 2018

She'd likely serve three or less, then face certain deportation. I don't know that's what I call severe.

She's probably lucky she didn't have a couple Vicodins in her pocket when they picked her up. She'd be in some real trouble.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
14. Don't downplay the arrest of Butina
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 02:50 PM
Jul 2018

she is a Russian spy who didn't get away and can make the case for collusion between a lot of Americans.

IMO her arrest is a very big event.

JohnnyRingo

(18,619 posts)
16. I agree that it's a big deal
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 09:46 PM
Jul 2018

but was shocked when I learned the max for her conspiracy charge was a measly five years. I would think conspiracy to sell crack cocaine would get more than conspiring to overthrow the US government.

 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
11. Russia committed espionage in order to hurt America. Thats a crime.
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 12:26 PM
Jul 2018

I am not a lawyer, but if any American is proven to be part of that I am sure mueller has a list of federal charges he can use against those Americans.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
12. Team Mueller appears to be
Sun Jul 22, 2018, 12:47 PM
Jul 2018

using a 1948 Law that was used during the Rosenberg Trial Years. Crimes against the US Government.

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