Gay Jokes About Trump and Putin Aren't Funny. They're Hate.

[FreeState]

I didn’t see this until today - on the Matthew Shepard Foundation FB Page - it was written in preparation for Finland. Unfortunately we need more constant help in fighting homophobia, even among our allies.


https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a22163743/homophobia-trump-putin/

Some people make these insinuations as acts of "Resistance," believing that if Trump sees himself mocked in this way it will make him mad. I have bad news for everyone: Trump isn't looking at your dumb tweets. But you know who is? Queer people. LGBTQ adults and children who are seeing their president cozy up to an autocratic, violently homophobic leader of a country with a host of anti-gay policies are seeing your poorly constructed jokes. Queer Americans whose lives have been and will continue to be negatively affected by the fact that a third of Trump judicial nominees in his first year had anti-LGBT track records, according to Lambda Legal, by his attempted ban on trans troops in the military and by the Masterpiece Cakeshop Supreme Court verdict, to name but a few.

... snip...

Maybe that's what these people want. Maybe they're homophobes. Plenty of liberal people are. Ask any LGBTQ person how many well-intentioned allies have called something "gay" in front of them, have mimicked gay sex as a punchline, have joked a person is gay or lesbian because of the way they dress or talk or the things they enjoy. Every time a gay person hears a "joke" like this, it confirms that the world we live in is not safe, that the people who say that they have our backs are lying, that any interaction can suddenly reveal a hurled slur and after that, a thrown fist.

Because this is where the road ends for queer people: seemingly innocent mockery codifies homophobic beliefs and discomfort with same-sex attraction; that, in turn, results in open insults, complaints, or noises of disgust when said attraction is made visible through acts like holding hands, kissing, or simply standing in a certain way. And the noises of disgust then boil over into violence and often death. It can happen over the course of years or over a matter of minutes. That is the reality that queer people are reminded of when gayness is a punchline.

Snip...

To attempt to mock Trump for having feelings of attraction for Putin is to attempt to incite a gay panic in the two men and in their followers and acolytes. It is willfully violent, not to mention careless, lazy, reductive, and, frankly, boring. It makes Putin and Trump's jobs easier by reinforcing a world that is hostile to LGBTQ people to the point of death. If that's the objective of these so-called jokes, fine. Just don't call it comedy; call it what it is: hate.

[McCamy Taylor]

1. Trump is not "gay" for Putin. He is a lackey for Putin.

I think Putin may have been "gay" for W. But that is a whole other matter. Lots of men in public life have been "gay" for W.

[FreeState]

2. Right, the biggest issue is the homophobic imagery

Some people use to try and express that.

[ProudLib72]

3. I see it all the time

And I mentioned this a couple months ago here on DU. For instance, the cartoons about the Rump being in bed with Putin are ubiquitous, but no one ever seems to mind. Well, I do. It bothers me that people can be so complacent, so nonchalant in using an image that insinuates gayness as something bad (and yet oh so funny). I have read innuendo here on DU about the Rump wearing knee pads in Helsinki.

So I'm right there with you in being upset by this.

[Ezior]

9. The funny (or bad) thing about TrumPutin is not the gayness

It's the romance itself.

Gender doesn't matter with the decent jokes about TrumPutin. They'd work just as well if either Putin or Trump was female.

Of course, "LOL TRUMP IS GAY" is a homophobic "joke" and "EWWW TRUMP IS PUTIN'S SEX SLAVE" is offensive to anyone who is into BDSM. But using a romance between Trump and Putin to explain Trump's unexplainable behavior can be funny without being homophobic. Also, implying that the relationship is a BDSM one where Trump is submissive to Putin can be funny, too, if it's not meant to attack BDSM practices but simply explains why Trump apparently follows Putin's orders concerning geopolitics.

At least that's how I feel (as a gay man, who actually enjoyed some "entry-level" dom/sub experiments).

[oberliner]

4. Same with jokes about Trump's weight

[leftstreet]

6. Yes. He's a plus-sized assclown n/t

[Blue_true]

5. Great point.

We need to be careful about the imagery that we use at all times. Maybe having Putin as an elephant with Trump behind with a broom and shovel scooping up shit would be better, because it would hit Trump and treasonous republicans, but won't be homophobic or mysogonistic, or racist.

[Tipperary]

7. K and r. But the same posters will keep doing it here.

I saw an op yesterday from a poster who likes to cultivate a “sophisticated” in-crowd persona. Laughable.

It made me lose any respect I had for that poster.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Yup.

We also keep getting the same fucking excuses for the homophobia and heterosexist bullshit. It is legal to discriminate against GBLT people in 15 states in the areas of housing and employment...LEGAL...and more laws are being proposed all over the country to do the same. Yet, some think it is "funny" to imply Putin and his puppet are "fags" because it pisses off their supporters. Others may not find it funny, but they don't say a damn thing about it being bigoted, just straightplainin' to GLB people how we are "too sensitive". Of course, that is when they aren't 'bragging' about their gay family members.

[Saviolo]

10. Yeah, it's really frustrating.

I made this post over a year ago:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029010750 "Dear Allies - Stop Using Gay As An Insult"

Which ended up getting a response post:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029012573 "Dear Allies: Use WHATEVER WORKS."

Which was basically a great big long apologia for why we should use language demeaning to LGBTQ+ people. It's massively discouraging, and it feels like every "ally" I had in high school who would wrap an arm around my shoulder and tell me, "It's not about you, you're a good guy, but THAT GUY'S A FAG! LOL!!"

Also, I guess I couldn't restrain myself when I wrote this in a thread around the same time about Colbert's "cockholster" joke:

Look, there are no perfect allies, and I'm not going to knock Stephen Colbert for taking a cheap shot at Trump and Putin's toxic "alpha male" masculinity. They deserved to be mocked, and they deserve to be upset. But to be an ally, you've got to listen to the people you're allying with. Of course the media framed it exactly the way the deplorables wanted: "Should Colbert Apologize? Is he homophobic?" As far as I'm concerned, no and no.

The MAGA boys don't give one hot goddamn about LBGTQ people. They pretend they are, very briefly, from time to time, for rhetorical flourish. During the election campaign they told us that Trump was REALLY the LGBTQ candidate because Hillary took money from Saudi Arabia and they kill queers there! Throw'em off of buildings! Also, Trump held a gay flag (upside down) for a few seconds, so he's totally gonna help the queers!

Well, he's already sold LGBTQ people up the river twice, and we knew he was going to. By and large, we're not stupid, and we know that the republican party doesn't care about LGBTQ people, and in many cases are actively antagonistic. Young trans kids are being beat up for using the wrong bathroom, and that gross meme came right from the top. Peter Thiel, Milo Yiannopoulos, and Caitlyn Jenner all stood up with Trump (and other Republicans), but the administration sold them all out the minute they didn't need them any more. They were the pet queers that they could trot out on stage and pretend to say, "Look, we're totally on your side! Some of my best friends are gay!" but I will put money on the fact that in private, Ted Cruz calls Caitlyn Jenner "he."

So, there's a context here, and the Democratic party isn't really in danger of losing a whole lot of LGBTQ votes over Colbert's comment, or Boing Boing spreading around that image of Putin in drag makeup:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028905824
Or the picture of Trump and Putin cuddling on a rainbow unicorn. Or a the billboard of Trump and Putin kissing across from the RNC. You see how there's a pattern here?

The joke isn't "attacking" gay people, but what it is doing is attaching gay imagery (or queer/trans imagery in the case of the drag photo) to men who are literally attacking the LGBTQ community. Putin more directly than Trump, but both of them. Gay men in Chechnya are being rounded up and put in camps and mothers are being told to kill their gay children so the government doesn't have to. Obviously Trump and Putin aren't closeted homosexuals, and obviously it would infuriate them to be associated with queer imagery. But what is the end result of this?

We're not going to win the next election making "LOL! Gay!" jokes at Trump. In fact, if it infuriates him enough, maybe he'll decide that it's time to revisit the gay marriage ruling, or bathroom laws, or trans protections (such as they are), or reinstate laws that we've had scant 30 years ago that "sexual divergence" is something for which you can be denied immigration or refugee status. There are still states in the USA where you can be fired or denied housing for being gay or trans. And Putin is rounding the queers up in Russia! Do you think a few gay jokes are going to make him soften his stance? It's more likely to cause him to expand his concentration camps if you make him furious enough.

(short digression about the Putin in drag image: In the context from which it arose in Russia it makes a lot more sense. Gay/trans people were using it there to stand up for themselves in one of the only ways they could, and in that context, it makes far more sense, but spreading it around on Twitter and Facebook in North America strips most of that context away)

So, listen, I understand the context. And as I've said over and over, I don't think Colbert should lose his job or apologize, necessarily. The media also doesn't need to frame this argument in favour of the MAGA set who want to sew division and get Colbert labeled a homophobe. He's an ally, and I for one want to keep him as an ally.

But there are no perfect allies. And the only thing I really want from any ally to any marginalized group is for them to listen and learn from that group, and speak with them, not for them.

What I would love my allies here on DU to learn is that when you make images of Trump and Putin kissing as a way to enrage and mock them, you are taking a scene of normal gay intimacy, something sweet and special to us, and using it to shame. You're showing people that it's funny that they could be gay and kissing and having all that gay sex. I've seen a lot of people saying, "Oh, it's more about dominance than being gay!" which to me sounds like every teenager ever after being caught saying, "That's so gay!" responding with, "But, like, I don't mean homosexual, I just mean gay as in bad."

[Behind the Aegis]

11. And yet...here we are AGAIN!

Sad, isn't it.

Thanks again for your words!

[Saviolo]

13. Less "again" and more "still"

But yes, here we STILL are. Second verse, same as the first.

[FreeState]

12. Great read, thank you for the time you put into that

Great read, thank you for the time you put into that! DU as I am sure you are aware has a long and often not so bright history when it comes to LGBTQI issues and voices. It's very unfortunate that any minority has it's standards set by the majority.