Why We Fight. DU, let's agree to agree to get corporations out of government

[ProfessorPlum]

THE Major Problem that we face as people and citizens these days is corporate control of government. Why?

* The ultimate corporate model of labor is slavery - free labor with no pay. We need government to prevent that, and make corporations pay for labor

* The ultimate corporate model of trade is the swindle - they get all your money and provide nothing in return. We need government to control that, and protect us from fraud

* The ultimate corporate model of manufacture is pollution - they poison us with toxins freely. We need government to control that, and regulate what is dumped into our land, air, and water.

* The ultimate corporate model of information is propaganda - they control the flow of information to their own benefit and to the benefit of the status quo. We need government to provide media space for alternate voices that give us other viewpoints.

*The ultimate corporate model of foreign relations is war - they profit from the killing and domination of people in other lands. And eventually our own people. We need government to provide diplomacy that also values peace and the benefits of not being at war.

* The ultimate corporate model of government is totalitarianism - Decisions flow from the top down, power and wealth flow up. We need government to protect our right to have a say in decision making.

Notice that the GOP, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of corporations, has these models as their platform - Slavery, Fraud, Pollution, Propaganda, War, and Totalitarianism. It is because they are owned and run by corporations.

The opposite platform - Economic Freedom, Consumer Protection, Environmental Health, Free Press, Peace, and Democracy - should be what the Democratic Party stands for, and it should be what we can all here on DU agree are our common goals. The Democratic Party is our (only) means to those ends.


Therefore, there are three main rulers by which I measure Democratic politicians, messaging, policies, and actions. They are:

1. Democrats should fight the Republican Party vigorously - smartly, ferociously, and fiercely. The GOP goals of Slavery, Fraud, Pollution, Propaganda, War, and Totalitarianism should be opposed loudly and cleverly, with clear messaging. Democrats should stymie Republican/Corporate efforts at every turn.

2. Democrats should fight for policies that improve the situation of all people in this country (and the world), even (and perhaps especially) the most vulnerable among us. To the extent that that requires opposing the GOP, corporations, and their horrible policies, they need to communicate well and fight strongly.

3. Democrats should have as a goal the gradual minimization of corporate influence over government, realizing that that is an ideal unlikely to be reached, but earnestly to be wished and fought for. The current model we work in, where the government is up for sale to the highest corporate bidder (or to the most devious foreign mafia), will not further our goals and needs to be changed as rapidly as it is possible to do so without harming people.


That means, that if I find people advocating that Democrats shouldn't fight hard, then I will speak out against those people. If they are Democrats, I will vote for them while hating their attitude, against Republicans. But I am going to call that strategy out.

That means, that if I find people advocating that Democrats should adopt corporate policies like Slavery, Fraud, Pollution, Propaganda, War, and Totalitarianism, then I will speak out against those people. If they are Democrats, I will vote for them while hating their attitude, against Republicans. But I am going to call their policies out.

That means, that if I find people advocating that Democrats don't fight corporate control of government, then I will speak out against those people. If they are Democrats, I will vote for them while hating their attitude, against Republicans. But I am going to call those fucking anti-human policies out.

And I don't want to hear shit from people on this board about calling out behavior that is weak against the GOP, weak against corporations, and weak against true Democratic principles. If we cannot agree that the policies of the GOP and their corporate masters are ANTI-HUMAN and fight against them, then how can we build a humane society together as a human community?

[cpamomfromtexas]

1. Absolutely correct. Must have public financing of campaigns too to turn the tables.

[ProfessorPlum]

5. agreed, that's one of the biggest components of getting money out of government.

[kcr]

2. You don't want to hear "shit" from people on this board?

Too bad. Because I don't care about your rules. I will speak out against anyone who spreads bullshit because they listen to people smearing Democrats with lies and I really don't care if you don't like it.

[ProfessorPlum]

3. noted

[Squinch]

4. Well done. Trashing thread, but glad I saw your post first.

[Recursion]

6. Corporate influence on local government is what killed the horrible "bathroom" laws in NC

I don't think the case against corporate involvement in politics is nearly as clear cut as you're acting like it is.

[ProfessorPlum]

11. those corporations were responding to pressure from the community

and nowadays, if anyone wants something done in government, it has to be done by going through corporations in this manner. Their voices matter most. Let them worry about making money legally, and the people of the world can worry about how we govern ourselves.

[yardwork]

36. No they weren't. I'm right here in NC and I'm gay.

Without the pushback from corporations, we'd be in even worse shape here.

The companies aren't responding to "the community." They're responding to reality. They can't run their businesses when their employees are discrimated against.

You have a highly simplistic impression of industry.

[NCTraveler]

7. "I don't want to hear shit from people on this board"

Burp

[Trumpocalypse]

8. While good and worthy ideas

Now is not the time for strict rules and litmus tests. We need to start winning elections first and we made need to recruit candidates who are not 100% pure.

[ProfessorPlum]

9. of course they aren't strict

thus, the voting for Democrats regardless. But they are ways to evaluate policies and messaging.

[DeminPennswoods]

10. I use the Cesar Millan rule

Corporations are like dogs, both need rules, boundaries and limitations to lead happy lives.

[ProfessorPlum]

12. that's a great way to put it

[DeminPennswoods]

14. Thanks

People can relate to that analogy, imho. No one likes a dog off the leash, running around, jumping on other people, chasing rabbits, doing its business on your property and barking all day or all night. Everyone likes a well-behaved, obediant dog.

It's the same with corporations, no one likes a company that is a bad corporate citizen (low wages, no benefits, despoils the enviroment, no social conscience, etc).

If corporations would admit it, they like rules, boundaries and limitations, too. It makes it that much easier to do business and know what they can/can't do.

[ProfessorPlum]

17. I use the fire analogy

Capitalism, like fire, is extremely powerful and can be harnessed to accomplish a lot. However, like fire, it is dangerous when used carelessly and left unchecked.

[MineralMan]

13. I believe your post has an overblown concept of corporations.

Not all corporations are like that. Some are, of course, but the corporation is the basic business organization in most cases.

Most corporations are very small businesses. A sizable percentage of very small businesses are configured as corporations, for a number of reasons.

I think what you are talking about is huge corporations, not corporations in general. Let me tell you about a corporation I have worked with:

* Its model of labor is to pay its employees a premium wage over the average wage in that industry. Why? Because it recognizes that stable staffing is important to its mission and works to its benefit.

* Its model of trade is value. The goods and services it provides to customers are of excellent quality. It does that because providing value builds business for it. Its pricing model is highly competitive, because it has to be to stay in business.

* Its model of manufacture is efficiency. It actively markets products that cause the least possible damage to the environment through efficient use of resources.

* Its model of information is full disclosure. It believes that presenting accurate, objective information to its customers results in them making better decisions. That's the part I'm involved with, since I write all the content for their several websites.

It has no model of foreign relations or government. It is not involved in either.

It's a small company, with about 30 employees, including the owners. It supplies, installs and maintains heating and cooling equipment for homes and small to mid-sized businesses. It's one of many such companies in its economic market. It's successful in competing with similar companies, due to its models of operation.

It is a corporation. It is not the enemy.

You overstate in your post. Seriously overstate.

[ProfessorPlum]

15. gee, MineralMan, does your 30 employee corporation

control the government? No? Because if not, it isn't the corporations I'm talking about.

I have NOT ONE THING against corporations. I have EVERYTHING against corporate control of government.

Corporate control of government is unchecked, and therefore is corrupted by its own power.

[MineralMan]

19. My point stands.

The corporation I'm talking about probably donates to political candidates. I don't know to whom. It is typical of the millions of small corporations out there. They vastly outnumber the corporations that you say run government.

It is not the corporate form of business organization that is the problem. The problem is the individual corporations who behave as you describe. They are in the minority of corporations.

The corporate model is simply an organizational model. It has no intrinsic effect on government. Individual corporations might, but not the bulk of corporations, which are more like the one I described.

[ProfessorPlum]

21. again, you are totally missing the point

I have no issue with the corporate model. I have issue with the way government allows itself to be bought and controlled by corporate money. The corporate model itself has no intrinsic effect on government. But government by corporation leads to all of the things I outlined above.

I would rather be governed by my fellow citizens rather than constructs that are designed to maximize profits.
I would think that was obvious. Or do you like Blackwater making our foreign policy decisions, and private school corporations setting our education policy, or weapons manufacturers controlling our defense spending?

[MineralMan]

23. Actually, you overstated your point, which I pointed out.

Attack individual corporations that do bad things, not corporations in general. Then, I'll have no beef with your posts.

[ProfessorPlum]

25. It's the system that's the problem

it allows corporations to make our governing decisions for us. And they've been doing a bad job.

Unless you think that rule by corporations is/would be A-OK? I guess that is what you are arguing for.

[MineralMan]

27. You guess? You guess incorrectly.

We have lost control over our largest corporations. That's the problem. The solution will be to re-establish that control. To do that will require that we vote in massive numbers and take back control of our government.

Despite your preferences, this country is based on capitalism. That will not change, because there is no majority desire to change that. We have millions of corporations, most of which are small businesses. We have a small number of mega-corporations which have far overstepped boundaries that should be in place.

You guess wrong about what I am arguing for. You consistently do. Please do not guess. Ask me, and I will tell you what I am arguing for, if you are unable to figure it out.

[ProfessorPlum]

28. I have no problem with an economic system based on capitalism

Now you are putting words in my mouth.

What is it that you are trying to say, exactly? My argument is that corporate control of government is bad. You seem to be trying to argue against that. If you don't think that corporate control of government is good/to be hoped for, then do you agree with my that corporate control of government is a bad thing? And if so, why are you seemingly arguing/devil's advocating/kicking up dust? For no reason?

I didn't say corporations were bad. i didn't say capitalism was bad. I didn't say that the corporate model was bad. I said that corporations running the government is bad. That's all.

Do you agree with me that the GOP is totally corrupt, and wholly owned subsidiary of corporate money and power?

[MineralMan]

31. I'm totally done with this conversation.

See you in another thread.

[ProfessorPlum]

32. thanks for nothing

and for kicking up a bunch of dust even though you agree with my basic premise.

Weird.

[MineralMan]

35. No need for thanks if you got nothing from my post.

[ProfessorPlum]

39. some corporations are made up of good hearted people?

you'll get no argument from me there.

However, it is clear to me that corporations that want to run/influence the government and their GOP stooges want 1) lower/slave wages (fighting the minimum wage, "right to work" laws) 2) protection to commit fraud (fewer "regulations&quot 3) freedom to pollute 4) propaganda (all else is "fake news&quot 5) war and 6) tyranny.

I oppose all of those things, which is why I oppose the GOP and corporate money in politics.

[former9thward]

16. Your assumptions are extreme stereotypes and caricatures.

The "ultimate corporate model" is none of those. Your universe is unrecognizable from the real world. Thankfully none of our elected representatives believe those assumptions either.

[ProfessorPlum]

18. Your post is completely full of nonsense

so there

[MineralMan]

42. That is a very, very impolite response to a fellow DUer.

Ugly, even.

[ProfessorPlum]

20. of course they are extreme - because they are "ultimate" goals

Every time governments get taken over by corporate power, they move towards GOP goals and away from people-centric/Democratic goals. Why is that?

[MrsCoffee]

22. Elections must be getting close.

All these excuses for bashing Democrats keep popping up.....

Curious indeed.

[FSogol]

24. Exactly. n/t

[yardwork]

37. From posters who joined JPR two years ago. They're back, just in time for midterms.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

26. THE Major Problem that we face as people and citizens these days is

illogic.

[octoberlib]

29. I'm for campaign finance and lobbying reform, definitely.

The Democracy Journal had on article an how lobbying has increased since the 60's to the point that lobbyists are writing a lot of our legislation now and it was alarming. Obama tried by banning or scaling back lobbying but that just them sent scurrying underground and they called themselves by a different name to get around it.


We definitely have to do something about dark money.


Everything needs to be scaled back .

[Orsino]

30. "It's the money, stupid."

We allowed private money the vote, and we act surprised that money votes for itself.

I'm afraid we lack the political will to ban or significantly restrict the influence of private money, and the Supreme Court seems inevitably bent on relinquishing all control over it. If these things are true, we don't come back from this.

[JI7]

33. demand elected officials release their taxes

[yardwork]

38. I'm not voting for anybody who won't release 10 years of tax returns.

[jalan48]

34. Maybe we can all agree "Corporations AREN'T People"?

[ProfessorPlum]

40. hear hear

[jalan48]

41. I'm surprised at the number of people who rush to defend our modern corporate state given the

impending environmental dystopia we are facing. Profit over people is not the solution.

[ProfessorPlum]

43. me too