General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNew Seattle Streetcars Too Big for Current Tracks
Ten new streetcars that Seattle ordered to expand its system may be of no use to the city, as their extra-large size could prevent them from fitting on the current tracks or inside the maintenance barn.
The Seattle Department of Transportation ordered the new streetcars at a cost of $52 million to connect its two existing streetcar lines, the Seattle Times reported. However, the new cars are heavier and longer than the existing cars, Mayor Jenny Durkan's office said in a statement.
The streetcars on the current routes were manufactured by Inekon, but the city hired another company after the First Hill streetcar line opened two years late, the Times reported. When negotiating a contract with the new company, CAF USA, the city gave broad requirements for the new cars, almost all of which were larger than the specifications of the current cars.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-seattle-streetcars-too-big-for-current-tracks/ar-BBL34Ia?ocid=spartandhp
madaboutharry
(40,209 posts)I thought they were smarties in Seattle.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Unf'ing believable!
mythology
(9,527 posts)OregonBlue
(7,754 posts)where I-5 and I-90, the only two major freeways meet. It was double cloverleaf, etc. When they got to the end, they were off by about 7 ft. and construction was stopped for years 10-15 years. When they built the King Done they put that huge dome up to within a few feet and the ends did not meet and it had to be torn down and redone. At least once every year or two there is some major (were talking millions and hundreds of millions of dollars) city engineering screw up and no one is ever fired. When they built the underground tunnels for the buses coming into downtown, they made them too narrow so all transit drivers have to stop and pull in their side mirrors in order to drive into the downtown tunnels. It's like a 3 stooges movie with them.
It would be funny except for the millions and millions of dollars it has cost taxpayers.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Greatest public bond collapse in US history
On the phone so can't link to the wiki but I think I got the acronym about right
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,681 posts)ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)If they are so damned big, maybe they can turn them into low rent apartments. Get some good out of this debacle.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)Bought a new fire truck and everything. This was a big deal and they had a celebratory ceremony. Backed the new truck in only to find that it was two feet too long to fit in the station.
Some folks apparently aren't big on thinking ahead.
AllaN01Bear
(18,185 posts)trackfan
(3,650 posts)Marie Marie
(9,999 posts)Good show.
The Conductor
(180 posts)That anyone would fall for this "too big for the tracks" nonsense.
This is a garbage story put out by an anti-streecar politician to a reporter who did't check. That mayor is desperate to justify shutting down construction on that streetcar line. Taking lots of heat for that and trying to make others look bad. Those same CAF cars run fine in other US cities, especially Kansas City. During the Winter Olympics, Salt Lake City borrowed longer and heavier cars from Dallas to help in moving the crowds with their light rail. Standard guage has been a thing since Abraham Lincoln, folks!
A moment's thought will tell you that it is generally the width of a train car that would be a clearance issue, not the length. Kind of like the way the same tracks near your house can handle freight trains of anything between 1 and 110 cars.
Practical examples for any of you not familiar with street railway technology in the modern age: Toronto is right now replacing their 46-foot CLRVs from the 1970s with Bombardier Flexities that are 91-feet long. There have been no issues with this (save that Bombardier has been a bit slow on delivery). San Francisco's new Siemens cars are longer than the Bredas they replaced, which were longer than the Boeings they ran before that, which were longer than the 1940s President Conference Committee cars they ran before that. Anyone notice that longer streetcars didn't stop San Francisco, which has even reopened lines once abandoned, adding to streetcar service? Those longer, modern cars are articulated in design, meaning their longer lengths have shorter carbodies joined together - kind of like a semi instead of a fixed-frame on a truck. The 91-foot long streetcars can then easily handle the same 36-foot turns as fixed frame cars half their length.
The talk about extra weight in the original story is garbage, too. This is no different in streetcar terms than when we traded in my bride's old Scion XA for a Subaru Forester last year. It is longer and heavier, but the garage floor didn't exactly collapse, and the streets around our house didn't need repaving! Things like the bridges in service pits at the shops are not just rated in overall load, but load per length.
A longer and heavier car could actually put less load on a bridge. In Milwaukee, just testing to start their own streetcar line, engineers thought they'd need to reinforce the St. Paul St. Bridge for the 80,000 pound streetcars. Only, when they ran the numbers, the actual load on the bridge the streetcar makes is less than a loaded semi. They did nothing structure to the bridge except to weld on the rails, and it's working fine!
This is a garbage story put out for political purpose. Don't be fooled.
yortsed snacilbuper
(7,939 posts)will they fit in the maintenance shed?
The Conductor
(180 posts)These cars are not that much longer. This is a phony issue.
How important is that in reality? I'll give you the best historic precedent I know of, the old, Chicago to Milwaukee North Shore Line. In 1941, they took delivery of a pair of magnificent streamliners called Electroliners. Over the next 22 years, those wonderful trains ran millions of miles in service. Even after the North Shore quit in 1963, the Liners moved on to Philadelphia suburban lines. Both trains survive today. [
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroliner ]
How does this relate to the supposed shop issue? The main base for the Liners was the North Shore Line's Harrison Street Shop in Milwaukee, a building 130 feet long. The Liners were 155 feet, 4 inches. The North Shore's main paint shop in Highwood, IL was even shorter. Despite not ever fitting completely inside of any shop building on the property, the Electroliners were maintained to the highest standards. And recall an average Midwestern winter is worse than the worst winter ever in Seattle. Trains can turn around... You put the end of the train with the problem inside the building and do the work!