Pierce: If Cohen Is Telling the Truth, That Ought to Be Ballgame

[babylonsister]

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a22572469/michael-cohen-trump-tower-meeting-don-jr/

If Cohen Is Telling the Truth, That Ought to Be Ballgame
We now stand at a yes-or-no moment in this country's history.
By Charles P. Pierce
Jul 27, 2018


We are now at one of those points. With the revelation on CNN Thursday night that, according to the network’s sources, Michael Cohen is ready to testify that the president* knew in advance of the now-legendary meeting in June of 2016 at which individuals connected to the Russian government offered to ratfck Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign for him, we stand as a self-governing republic at a stark, unclouded moment—either you believe the president* of the United States is utterly illegitimate, having conspired with a hostile power to gain the office he now holds, and that every act he has taken in that office, up to an including swearing the oath of office, is equally illegitimate, or you do not. It is now a binary. If Cohen is willing to testify to that effect, then the president* conspired with the regime of Vladimir Putin in order to gain control over the executive branch of government in this country—which includes not only the military, but the law-enforcement and intelligence apparatus as well. We are now at yes-or-no. From CNN:

The June 2016 meeting was arranged after a publicist who knew Trump Jr. told him in emails -- in no uncertain terms -- that a senior Russian official "offered to provide the Trump campaign" with damaging information about Clinton, and that the outreach was "part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump." At the time, the Russian operation to covertly boost Trump's candidacy wasn't publicly known. Trump. Jr. responded, "if it's what you say, I love it," and started to arrange the meeting. At the meeting, Trump Jr. was joined by his brother-in-law Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort, who was Trump's campaign chairman at the time. There were four Russians in the room, including a lawyer with Kremlin ties, a businessman who worked for an oligarch and a lobbyist with old KGB connections.

At which point, if Cohen is willing to testify to that which CNN says he’s willing to testify, the deluge of lies began.

After news of the meeting broke in July 2017, the Trump team offered misleading explanations and changed their story several times. But one claim stayed consistent: that Trump had no knowledge of the meeting beforehand, wasn't told about it afterward and first learned about it one year later. Those denials were repeatedly issued by Trump, his attorney Jay Sekulow, Trump Jr., Futerfas and White House press secretary Sarah Sanders. Those people denied that Trump had contemporaneous knowledge of the meeting on more than 15 occasions, according to CNN's analysis. Trump said on July 12, 2017, that he "only heard about it two or three days ago." One week later, Trump repeated that he "didn't know anything about the meeting" because "nobody told me" about it. Around that same time, CNN's Jake Tapper asked Sekulow to confirm Trump's claims that he only recently learned about the controversial meeting. Sekulow's response: "Yes, I swear." But perhaps the highest-stakes denial was given by Trump Jr. in his testimony last year to the Senate Judiciary Committee. "He wasn't aware of it," Trump Jr. told lawmakers, referring to his father's knowledge of the meeting. "And, frankly, by the time anyone was aware of it, which was summer of this year, as I stated earlier, I wouldn't have wanted to get him involved in it because it had nothing to do with him."

Lawyer up, junior. There’s still room under the bus.

snip//

According to The Final Days, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein’s account of the Watergate denouement, Buzhardt went to then-chief of staff Alexander Haig.

“Well, we’ve found the smoking pistol,” he began. His voice was calm and emotionless.

“Are you sure?” Haig asked.

“Yes, it’s the ballgame. Bob [Haldeman] told him a lot that day.”

That was their yes-or-no moment. Two years of ducking and weaving. Two years of legal rope-a-dope. Two years of increasingly implausible alibis as half the White House staff either were convicted or pled themselves into jail. It all came to this. It wasn’t easy. (Woodward and Bernstein point out that Buzhardt at first had the devil’s own time getting anyone to agree with him about the June 23 tape.) But, by August, there was a new president of the United States because, ultimately, people stood at the yes-or-no moment and did what was best for the country.

That’s where we are today, if CNN’s reporting is accurate and if Cohen is telling the truth. This isn’t the smoking gun. It’s just the latest smoking gun. There are smoking guns and there are smoking guns, and then there’s this administration*, which looks like the Union line on Cemetery Ridge just as what was left of Pickett’s division arrived. I have no faith at all that enough people will do what needs to be done about this compromised and dangerous man. My first reaction to this news was that it would get folded into some nonsense that pops on the Friday news cycle—a barely coherent rage-tweet, or something stupid from the House of Representatives. But this is the yes-or-no moment. If CNN is right, and if Cohen is telling the truth, then, in the immortal words of J. Fred Buzhardt, that’s the ballgame.

Or ought to be.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a22572469/michael-cohen-trump-tower-meeting-don-jr/

[Zoonart]

1. But the GDP is up this month so.....

i's all good.

[2naSalit]

2. K&R

Lawyer up, junior. There’s still room under the bus.

[dajoki]

13. Do you think...

that he will be tried as an adult?

[2naSalit]

16. Good question!

[oberliner]

3. What if he's lying?

Didn't he lie about visiting Prague?

And about paying Stormy Daniels from his own pocket (without being reimbursed)?

[Pacifist Patriot]

7. Will probably come down to what the various players are willing to say ... under oath.

[oberliner]

25. Was Cohen under oath when he appeared before Congress?

Congressional investigators this week grilled President Donald Trump’s personal attorney over a scuttled plan to open a new tower in Moscow, as lawmakers again expanded the scope of various inquiries into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, sources familiar with the interviews told NBC News.

Long-time Trump ally Michael Cohen’s appearances before the House and Senate Intelligence Committees on consecutive days this week offered the panels greater insight into the inner workings of the president’s business empire and how it considered expansion into foreign markets like Moscow.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hill-committees-focus-russia-tower-deal-cohen-interviews-n815121

[brush]

26. Huh? Do you actually believe trump wasn't told about that meeting?

Come on!

[oberliner]

27. I am suspicious of everything every one of these Trump people says

Trump himself is obviously a huge liar, as is Trump Jr., and Cohen.

[brush]

29. Do you actually think trump didn't know about that meeting beforehand?

Maybe because he denied that he knew, in other words—lied, you'll join the rest of us in saying—of course he knew.

Jr. wouldn't think of setting that up without his father's approval.

Hell, trump even penned Jr's lie-filled press release about the meeting on Airforce One. Remember?

[onenote]

35. Yes I think he knew. I also think Cohen's testimony doesn't mean "it's ballgame"

since he has his own credibility issues. Unless there is documentary or third party corroboration of Cohen's version of events, I don't think his statements constitute a smoking gun.

[brush]

37. The others in the meeting most likely won't lie to Mueller when called. I don't think...

Cohen is either at this point as he's trying to save himself from a long prison sentence.

I know I wouldn't lie in those circumstances.

[onenote]

38. Depends on who was in the meeting with Trump

If it was just family (Don Jr.) and other loyalists, of course they'll lie.

[brush]

39. And risk going to jail? Mueller probably already knows who was in the meeting.

[onenote]

40. Again, without documentary evidence, it's he said, she said.

And if, as you suggest, Mueller already has credible evidence that Trump Jr. told daddy about the meeting, then Cohen's testimony isn't the game changer it is being suggested it is.

[brush]

41. Again, you're assuming Mueller doesn't already know. The reason why they don't want...

trump to meet with Mueller is because he and his team of lawyers and investigators have been collecting info for over a year.

I wouldn't take my chances in lying to that group.

[onenote]

42. No, I assumed in my last response that Mueller does know

and if that's the case -- if Mueller has credible evidence that Don Jr. told daddy about the meeting -- then how is Cohen saying it somehow the game changer?

[brush]

43. i never said it was the game changer. I'm just glad it's out in public and can influence...

opinion and voters, not to mention how the media covers it.

I will venture though that while it might not be the game changer, the closer is getting ready to come in from the bullpin—especially since it's speculated that the trump camp released this info, thereby admitting to collusion.

And btw, isn't it curious that Putin comes out with an invite to Moscow the morning after this revelation in an obvious attempt to snatch headlines away from this devastating story about his friend's apparent collusion?

[oberliner]

36. Seems pretty far fetched to think he would not have known about it

My top concern on all of this is that everything will come out and we will see that Trump did know about that meeting (and possibly worse) and the Republicans will be handed all this information and still won't pursue impeachment.

[Maraya1969]

4. Notice how everyone has tried to protect Trump, even his kids? Most of the time it is the parent

that tries to protect the kids. This bastard trows his kids under the bus and runs away.

[Scarsdale]

11. In this case, the

"kids" are willing participants. After all, without Daddy, what would they be? None are too smart, depending on Daddy's largesse. Well, Ivanka has designs on being the first female president, so there is THAT!!

[Achilleaze]

5. America is going to need a long hot shower to wash off republican treason

gack

[BSdetect]

6. The bullshitting bully is a traitor clearly to us all.

Some will try to create doubt and delays - cue ryan and the turtle.

Those two are conspirators as well. Treason has appealed to them.

[bunny planet]

8. What I still can't figure out...

Lani Davis released a statement last night saying essentially that he and Michael Cohen did not release that statement saying what Cohen was prepared to testify to Mueller about trumpy dump's foreknowledge of the June trump tower meeting. Davis also said he couldn't understand why the trump camp had leaked that information at all. What usually makes sense when trump himself leaks something is that he is trying to distract from something else that might be more damaging in the short term. So, what else was in the news yesterday....besides his long time top financial guy getting a subpoena...... I thought maybe it's this story...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ap-report-lawyer-who-met-with-trump-jr-closely-tied-to-russian-officials/ This fell off the radar pretty fast when all the other more sexy stories came out fast and furious. Obviously if trump leaked the Cohen statement there has to be a more nefarious strategy or explanation. One thing all guests said last night on Chris, Rachel and Lawrence's programs was that this leak was not something the prosecutors wanted or needed to help their case. Of course it could just be a stupid and crude move by trump and Ghouliani to paint Cohen as a liar, if they already know Cohen has no proof of the assertion and it will just be he said he said.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong....but Cohen, if charged eventually with whatever myriad of things he's done wrong in NYC, will be charged in state court and tried by prosecutors in the Southern District of New York. Mueller turned over the case to SDNY deliberately.....but also always left open the possibility that if SDNY turned up information pertinent to the Russia investigation that that information, not necessarily Cohen would be given back over to him. If Cohen testifies to Mueller in his case, but remains under the jurisdiction of SDNY for his trial or possible indictment or plea (taxi medallions, bank fraud, the Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal and gawd knows what else) - trump can't pardon Cohen for state crimes, only for Federal ones. Cohen would just be another witness in Russia investigation, not charged in federal court. Same thing with Buttina, she wasn't indicted by Mueller was she? Was she indicted by a DC court, is that considered a non Federal court? Not sure....

[2naSalit]

18. Good question, I think all end up federally tried...

Answer at this web page: https://criminallawyerwashingtondc.com/dc-court-system/

[forgotmylogin]

9. It's also apparent that Trump is a russophile.

Do we really think he'd sit out a meeting with Russians on the floor right below him who might be able to put a good word in for him with Putin?

[aeromanKC]

10. It should have been over when

Trump mocked the disabled Reporter, denigrated American War Hero McCain,........................................................................

[hot2na]

20. Yes it should have been all over then but...

... it should have been all over when he spoke of the stupid wall. We don't have to list the hundreds of reasons why he should not be president. We don't even have to mention the infantile assertion that Mexico is going to pay for it.

[aeromanKC]

24. Groundhogs day in Bizarro World

Its frustrating. It's like living Groundhogs Day in Bizarro world in perpetuity!!

[elmac]

12. according to a so called expert on msnbc

tRump would have to know that oking a meeting with the ruskies was breaking a certain law, that being ignorant of the crime is a defense in this case. I was just half listening while working but picked up on that tidbit. Did anyone else catch it, it was last night.

[drray23]

28. Yes I heard that too.

This surprised me because I have always been told that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[elmac]

30. Thanks for replying and yes, it surprised me too ;o) nt

[meadowlander]

31. But the FBI briefed him and told him that it was a crime.

I can't remember the exact timing, but even if it was after the June meeting he should have retroactively informed them about the reach out and then stopped trying to cover it up.

[elmac]

34. Maybe keeping silent will add another Obstruction of justice charge

to the JD's wish list.

[DesertRat]

14. It won't be over until the Republicans in power say it is

I don't think this current Congress will do a damn thing. Our only hope are the Nov. elections.

[elmac]

32. you are right

but that was the way for Nixon also, he had the support of the House repugs no matter what. What ended that support was the JD threatening to include Nixon as an unindicted co-conspirator which would have been very messy for the party. Nixon later resigned because he knew he was going to be impeached. tRump could care less and wouldn't resign. .

[oasis]

15. Elie Honig, fmr. Asst. Atty. Sou. Dist.NY says the 2 Trump jr. phone calls

to the "blocked" numbers, during the time of the meetings, could bolster Cohen's version of the story.

Honing went on to say "If the meeting was 'no big deal' as everyone in the Trump camp claims, then why was there so many different accounts about its purpose".

[2naSalit]

19. And all those campaign heads

were there. The only conspicuous absence was donniedumpty... who was probably there via conference call.

[oasis]

22. Trump may have participated, "via conference call". Good point. nt

[mcar]

17. K&R

[woundedkarma]

21. Every other day.. sometimes every day

Some new person saying "it's over, this is the end"

And guess what? It's not over.

It's like this gradient thing... first it started with the more liberal people... "ok this is crazy, it has to be over now" then to the next most liberal... then the next most... until finally we start hitting moderates and they're going "okay, I agree, it's crazy, this has to be the end"

Now it's even sinking into some conservative minds.

And they all say "this has to be it, it's over"

And it still goes on... because the thing they won't admit to themselves is there are people who would rather screw the entire country than give up money and power. These are the essential traitors. And every single member in congress on BOTH sides of the aisle who hasn't come out against trump is one of them.

They will not back down. They will not impeach. Because they are complicit. And that is still sinking into the minds of people who've finally started to listen.

Our only hope is democrats taking control of the house and senate. If it doesn't happen this november, then only the most massive demonstrations and marches in the history of our country have any chance of stopping the end of the U.S.

Mueller seems like a good man with a good team doing their very best. But even if he exposed trump as being a mass murderer it would not matter to the republicans. HE KIDNAPPED CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS, separated them FOR LIFE, they will NEVER be reunited because nobody knows how. They wouldn't impeach him for that, they applauded him. They will not impeach!

[Hekate]

23. KnR

[lindysalsagal]

33. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?comview_post&forum1002&pid10932174

Like I said. Game. Over.