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catbyte

(34,367 posts)
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 12:57 PM Jul 2018

Adam Schiff's tweet is terrifying. I think we need UN observers for the midterms. Seriously.



News that Russian hackers targeted Claire McCaskill’s staff shortly after Trump called for her ouster is a chilling sign of Kremlin plans for midterms. As Dan Coats said, the warning lights are flashing red.

All Americans, of all parties, must denounce this, even if Trump won’t.
Sam Stein

@samstein

Claire McCaskill was targetted by Russian hackers shortly after Trump encouraged folks to vote her out https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-hackers-new-target-a-vulnerable-democratic-senator
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Adam Schiff's tweet is terrifying. I think we need UN observers for the midterms. Seriously. (Original Post) catbyte Jul 2018 OP
K & R Thank you for posting Wwcd Jul 2018 #1
Right now, I am reading Haggis for Breakfast Jul 2018 #37
Absolutely Grasswire2 Jul 2018 #2
Why did the pukes go to Moscow? triron Jul 2018 #3
Excellent question dalton99a Jul 2018 #4
To make promises in exchange for Bettie Jul 2018 #7
Too dangerous to collude over email Takket Jul 2018 #8
Why waste time on "little targets" like McCaskill FakeNoose Jul 2018 #12
Because the Russian influence has limits mythology Jul 2018 #18
Because McCaskill is in a swing District and the other Democrats you listed aren't. meadowlander Jul 2018 #19
No she's not in a swing district Rebl2 Jul 2018 #36
this can't be a serious post JI7 Jul 2018 #20
Claire McCaskill could possibly be the difference between 50 & 51 votes in the Senate AdamGG Jul 2018 #21
Exactly... regnaD kciN Jul 2018 #31
Gallery enid602 Jul 2018 #29
Because if they flip a race judged as a tossup DFW Jul 2018 #39
The Moscow Eight received marching orders from Vlad. sarcasmo Jul 2018 #22
To meet in private and not be held to account. Crutchez_CuiBono Jul 2018 #30
Keep pushing gratuitous Jul 2018 #5
We stand by in MO to support Claire M. Her website is listed FYI. Go Claire! SWBTATTReg Jul 2018 #6
If we need the UN to monitor our elections. Progressive dog Jul 2018 #9
And do what? Just accept status quo? Crutchez_CuiBono Jul 2018 #32
Status quo (democratic Constitutional government) has worked for over 200 years in USA Progressive dog Jul 2018 #42
Creat a paper audit trail. Data can be magically updated, paper cannot. 33taw Jul 2018 #10
seems the GOP feels that allowing this hacking will never come back to bite them RussBLib Jul 2018 #11
K&R Scurrilous Jul 2018 #13
What would you have the UN observe? Cannot see what's going on inside voting machines, diva77 Jul 2018 #14
I join with all decent Americans in denouncing the republican-russian attacks on US democracy Achilleaze Jul 2018 #15
+1. However, I was called a troll for pointing out how nice it would be to still have Al Franken... FreepFryer Jul 2018 #16
That would be useless mythology Jul 2018 #17
Zero evidence that votes were changed HAS BEEN RELEASED YET. fixed. BamaRefugee Jul 2018 #24
Zero OBVIOUS evidence DFW Jul 2018 #40
At least Microsoft was on the ball and knew about DeminPennswoods Jul 2018 #23
I agree. How do we make that happen? BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2018 #25
Gee, the last time 90-percent Jul 2018 #26
The GOP Will Never Denounce Cheating to Win -- It's Their "Secret Weapon" dlk Jul 2018 #27
Yup. hay rick Jul 2018 #35
THIS is what trump and putin talked about for two hours. spanone Jul 2018 #28
The Repubs are all in on this. It means they might win. Winning in order to destroy democracy.nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #33
Don't hold your breath.... SergeStorms Jul 2018 #34
The Carter Center has a whole system in place for monitoring elections in third world countries Rhiannon12866 Jul 2018 #38
Great idea. Can we as citizens invite them??? EndGOPPropaganda Jul 2018 #41

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
37. Right now, I am reading
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 11:43 PM
Jul 2018

"The Plot to Destroy Democracy" by Malcolm Nance, recognized internationally as an expert in counter-terrorism and national security. He lays out the Russian master plan, put into place by Putin, to rip this country apart and put an end to democracy in this country and Europe. To Putin, elections are child's play.

(Retired Senior Chief) Nance starts with a time line of summer 2015, and brings it right up to present day. It is chilling. I keep current with news, but much of this has been in the background, submerged in the muck of everything else going on right now. The chaos and confusion we are all experiencing is not accidental. Nance ties it all together, as it is all part of the plan, straight from Putin's own playbook. There is no coincidence(s) here. It is chilling.

I urge readers to pick up a copy of this book. Nance writes about things that Michael Hayden, John Brennan and James Clapper cannot put out there. I guarantee you will not look at anything the same after you read this.

Make NO mistake, we are under attack. And they are gearing up for the mid-terms. They've been prepping since the election in 2016.


Grasswire2

(13,565 posts)
2. Absolutely
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:05 PM
Jul 2018

That's what troubled nations do to ensure election validity. Call in the U.N. Paper ballots, hand counted, and elections monitors.

Bettie

(16,086 posts)
7. To make promises in exchange for
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:13 PM
Jul 2018

assistance. Most likely.

I do not believe that they have the good of our country in mind, they are all about maintaining power, which makes them richer every day.

FakeNoose

(32,620 posts)
12. Why waste time on "little targets" like McCaskill
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:31 PM
Jul 2018

If they're going for broke on this, they should be trying to take down Schiff, Waters, Warren, Pelosi, Feinstein, Schumer, and the people who can do real damage.

Claire McCaskill isn't trying to hurt the GOP, she's not even sure she can get re-elected.

The GOP is going for broke, make no mistake. Their collusion is right out in the open now, they've got nothing to lose because they know they're going down anyway.



 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
18. Because the Russian influence has limits
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 02:02 PM
Jul 2018

It's much easier to convince 1or 2 percent of people to vote one way or the other, than it is to change 15 percent.

Votes aren't being changed after being cast. Votes are being influenced prior to and election. But for most people, seeing an ad for Trump isn't going to change their vote. So the only way to have a useful impact is to target close elections.

meadowlander

(4,393 posts)
19. Because McCaskill is in a swing District and the other Democrats you listed aren't.
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 02:10 PM
Jul 2018

They want to keep impeachable majorities out of the House and Senate so they are focused on protecting vulnerable Republican seats and attacking vulnerable Democrats.

Rebl2

(13,485 posts)
36. No she's not in a swing district
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 08:00 PM
Jul 2018

She is in a state that went for Trump overwhelming. Not sure what you mean by a swing district by the way. She’s a Senator from the state of Missouri. Don’t believe senators are in districts. They serve the whole state.

AdamGG

(1,288 posts)
21. Claire McCaskill could possibly be the difference between 50 & 51 votes in the Senate
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 03:00 PM
Jul 2018

Democratic control of all Senate committees would be massive

regnaD kciN

(26,044 posts)
31. Exactly...
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 04:00 PM
Jul 2018

...that seat is demographic “low-hanging fruit” for Republicans, and flipping it may well guarantee them continued control of the Senate (and, with it, two more years of being able to install whoever they want to SCOTUS…after all, RBG is certainly reaching the age where she might not make it to see another presidency).

Look at it this way: even if Russia has developed the ability to access every voting tabulator in America, and can change results anywhere at will, having something like a straight-up Republican landslide this November, or having the Democratic leadership lose in their deep-blue districts, would seem hard for most people to swallow as genuine, and might even make them wonder if the same had been done in 2016. Far better, from the Russian viewpoint, to only “tweak” the results in plausible ways, so that the Democrats make the predicted gains, but fall just a hair short of a legislative majority through a loss or two in swing districts where such a result would be completely believable.

DFW

(54,330 posts)
39. Because if they flip a race judged as a tossup
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:16 AM
Jul 2018

No one will see definite manipulation

If they flip a race where we are ahead 60-40 their manipulation will be obvious and thus call into question those races where they would otherwise get away with it

Crutchez_CuiBono

(7,725 posts)
30. To meet in private and not be held to account.
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 03:59 PM
Jul 2018

Beyond the pale from a bunch of folks who have throttled Jane Fonda(?) for going to Hanoi during Vietnam.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
5. Keep pushing
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:11 PM
Jul 2018

We need the media to get after and keep after this. Ordinary citizens can are no longer contact their elected officials directly, and can't expect a pertinent response if they do break through. We need the media to worry less about access and concern themselves more with the welfare of the country.

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
9. If we need the UN to monitor our elections.
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:17 PM
Jul 2018

we might as well not bother with elections. It sure would make Putin happy, though. Putin's Russia is a permanent member of the UN security council.

Crutchez_CuiBono

(7,725 posts)
32. And do what? Just accept status quo?
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 04:04 PM
Jul 2018

I think we pull out all the stops to insure fair and accurate elections. We'd do it for them. Probably why dt is brow beating them now to stir up folks about the U.N. Wait til election Day and armed "militia" types are "monitoring" the elections in certain precints and districts. They already passed the law where you can wear anything into the polls you want etc. That was sacrosanct to insure a feeling of safety. After all, we go to war w other countries to indure Democracy for them, we should have it here as well.
Why are we always "REACTING" instead of being pro-active? (Like insisting the tangelo NOT go to Helsinki to begin with...2 hours alone w putin...brrrr.)

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
42. Status quo (democratic Constitutional government) has worked for over 200 years in USA
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:26 PM
Jul 2018

and we haven't needed Russian, Chinese, N Korean help to run our elections. We're the ones other countries turn to for help.
In fact, our problem now is having outsiders interfere in our elections.
You need to consult how elections are actually run in the USA. You seem to be confused about that.

33taw

(2,439 posts)
10. Creat a paper audit trail. Data can be magically updated, paper cannot.
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:18 PM
Jul 2018

I am from Wisconsin and I only use paper ballots. When I request them - I am looked at like I don’t trust the 80 year old woman checking me in. I trust her, I don’t trust the electronic voting machines.

RussBLib

(9,006 posts)
11. seems the GOP feels that allowing this hacking will never come back to bite them
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:28 PM
Jul 2018

the GOP has often been filled with total idiots (that reflect the populace)

diva77

(7,639 posts)
14. What would you have the UN observe? Cannot see what's going on inside voting machines,
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:38 PM
Jul 2018

central tabulators, and optical scanners. The only legitimately observable elections are those done with paper ballots, hand counted, ideally at the precinct level.

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
15. I join with all decent Americans in denouncing the republican-russian attacks on US democracy
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:38 PM
Jul 2018

depicable

FreepFryer

(7,077 posts)
16. +1. However, I was called a troll for pointing out how nice it would be to still have Al Franken...
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:50 PM
Jul 2018

As you say, this was a despicable Russian attack on our democracy and we should have been able to keep our priorities (defending the national security and ensuring the survival of US democracy) intact.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
17. That would be useless
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 01:52 PM
Jul 2018

There is zero evidence that votes were changed. In fact the evidence of the recounts done in Wisconsin and Michigan make it clear that votes weren't changed.

The Russian influence was prior to the election. It was targeted ads on Facebook (and others), it was Twitter bots, it was in getting access to campaign plans. That is much harder to stop. And it literally can't be stopped on election day because by then the damage was already done. The influence campaign went on for months and months.

The point should be to stop it now. Social media needs to have better protections, the party and individual campaigns need better protections of their data and people need to be smart enough to verify information. But when John Podesta gives his password, all the protection protocols won't help. Phishing works, targeted phishing works better.

If you only focus on non-existent vote changing, you will only serve to prove no votes were changed. You would only be providing evidence that votes weren't changed.

But we also need to be aware that for all the Russian influence, Clinton was still pretty comfortably ahead until the second Comey announcement. If she didn't have the server, she almost certainly would be president today, because all the Russian efforts to that point pushed Trump to within 6 points both nationally and in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Based on the Russian efforts weren't sufficient to change the election alone. It would be wrong to ignore the self-inflicted wound given the evidence.

DFW

(54,330 posts)
40. Zero OBVIOUS evidence
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:23 AM
Jul 2018

They didn't leave a signed note, but the statistical probability of the nearly identical Trump margins in all 3 states (WI, MI, PA) being legit is close to zero.

DeminPennswoods

(15,273 posts)
23. At least Microsoft was on the ball and knew about
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 03:07 PM
Jul 2018

the attempted hacks. They set up a detour server that twarted the email phishing link.

90-percent

(6,829 posts)
26. Gee, the last time
Fri Jul 27, 2018, 03:49 PM
Jul 2018

Gee, the last time the system was blinking read was the summer of 2001, and that turned out just swell for the United States.



-90% Jimmy

Rhiannon12866

(205,104 posts)
38. The Carter Center has a whole system in place for monitoring elections in third world countries
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:58 AM
Jul 2018

Sounds like we need it badly here...

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