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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRussia IS NOT MEDDLING - They Are ATTACKING Western Democracies - These Are Acts of WAR
The US, UK, the Netherlands, Italy, France and Germany have all been targets of Russia's attacks in the last few years. Why are these attacks not being discussed as acts of war?
This is not meddling! Russia is actively attacking the very fundamentals of western democracies.
The West needs to acknowledge this fact and start fighting back!
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)under the misleadership of their republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief, Comrade Dirty Donny.
Cowardly. Treasonous. A wholesale betrayal of America.
House GOP refuses to renew election security funding
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/house-gop-refuses-to-renew-election-security-funding-as-democrats-fume-over-russian-meddling/2018/07/18/20761f88-8abb-11e8-8aea-86e88ae760d8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ce13c2b62e52
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Squinch
(50,922 posts)uponit7771
(90,304 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)and let public opinion, now unleashed from the mewing, roar.
I agree, one step at a time. The media does not let go of its in-House labelling easily.
radical noodle
(7,997 posts)This is not just a prank. Putin means business and is trying to get his foot in everyone's door.
sfwriter
(3,032 posts)I think a limited increased mobilization at the borders of Nato, perhaps more in the Baltics, hardening of cyber defenses, expelling a few Russians, closing some conciliates, and conterstriking with sanctions / cyber attacks of our own.
They attacked and CONTINUE TO ATTACK several countries. We have already done some of the above.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Squinch
(50,922 posts)cutroot
(873 posts)republicans are helpless against this.
braddy
(3,585 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,253 posts)I'll refrain from calling you a surrender monkey
braddy
(3,585 posts)end us and Europe and even life on earth.
ProfessorPlum
(11,253 posts)but rather to treat the cyber attacks on this country with the seriousness and breadth of response that are required to prevent it from happening again.
braddy
(3,585 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,253 posts)we should formally declare it a "war" which hasn't been done in this country since 1941.
If you are afraid of a formal declaration from Congress, I think you can sleep well at night.
braddy
(3,585 posts)Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Russia's actions are not meddling and they are certainly not meddling when they are acting against almost every Western European democracy.
braddy
(3,585 posts)activities short of "War", especially when we are speaking of Russia.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)braddy
(3,585 posts)Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Would you consider that an act of war?
braddy
(3,585 posts)Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)I would prefer a simple answer to a simple question. I don't blame you for not answering though. I think you realized your position was untenable.
Johnny2X2X
(18,973 posts)This needs to be the narrative, we are being attacked and Trump refuses to defend America.
uponit7771
(90,304 posts)SeloverB
(26 posts)and we'd rather not discuss that. Read Overthrow by Stephen Kinzer. I've never been able to finish it because it makes me so angry.
woundedkarma
(498 posts)But in recent decades, both Mr. Hall and Mr. Johnson argued, Russian and American interferences in elections have not been morally equivalent. American interventions have generally been aimed at helping non-authoritarian candidates challenge dictators or otherwise promoting democracy. Russia has more often intervened to disrupt democracy or promote authoritarian rule, they said.
Equating the two, Mr. Hall says, is like saying cops and bad guys are the same because they both have guns the motivation matters.
----------------
The idea that their meddling is the same as our meddling is russian propaganda.
c-rational
(2,589 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Except the word generally? As in generally being aimed at helping non-authoritarian challenge dictators or otherwise promoting democracy?
Was it when we supported coups in Venezuela, or El Salvador, or Honduras. Was it when we spent that decade supporting Saddam, or that decade opposing him? Was it when we supported Communist governments in China or when we opposed them?
What Russia did in 2016 was wrong. If they did it because we were wrong a thousand times before that? STILL FUCKING WRONG.
The idea that their propaganda is somehow magically worse or ours that ours is better because our parents were born in a previously specified geographic parameter? Crazier than any conspiracy theory Ive heard yet.
Yes, yes, yes. I hear you. Ive read that Im an Internationalist, a commie, someone who just hates liberals,, or that Im just someone who hates America. Ive read all of that on DU. Recently.
Putin can go fuck himself. At best, Trump should be impeached because of their relationship (for lack of a better word).I find it baffling, confusing, that any Democrat is still willing to listen to anti-Leftist viewpoints without considering the sources. The real sources.
Anyone who hadnt read this old article? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do so here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html
The long arm of Vladimir Putin? No, just a small sample of the United States history of intervention in foreign elections. ...
If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all, said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States absolutely has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, and I hope we keep doing it.
This is not, for those reading this for the first time, a defense of the United States.
This is secret bombing of Cambodia level of insanity, an instance that only Preparng for War Makes Peace level of crazy.
sfwriter
(3,032 posts)I've noticed it is making a comeback as well.
The Russians should expect some resistance. We always do whether we install democracy or dictators.
malaise
(268,724 posts)in several sovereign states. To many on the planet what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
certainot
(9,090 posts)and FBI and other "deep state" elements for working for obama clinton soros in trying to overthrow trump.....
and democrats are the real racists because they were the slave owners etc.
there's no way to have rational fact based discussions on a national level on any of these topics as long as liberals/dems/left ignore 1500 coordinated radio stations that now might as well be working for putin
malaise
(268,724 posts)The concept known as hegemony
certainot
(9,090 posts)you'd think the last place they'd get a bunch of people defending putin would be the US......
all putin had to do is figure out how to feed/pay limbaugh, the leader of several hundred blowhard limbaugh wannabes on 1500 radio stations
in 8 1/2 hours of limbaugh he said a "trump" an avg of every 52 seconds, and it's all good. that's the best branding, reaching 10 to 20 million. with secondary and tertiary recipients, that's the base.
everything they push on talk radio parralels what trump and putin like
are they paying the talk radio gods?
Firestorm49
(4,030 posts)Because weve been doing it to other countries for decades under whatever means we could get away with at the time. Overtly or covertly attempting to influence foreign governments for the benefit of your own is on most countrys agendas.
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Too bad so many of us fall for it.
Shields up, Americans, the Russians have propganda phasers set on "kill". Just "stun" last election.
Roy Rolling
(6,908 posts)It was an act of war. A different type of war than tanks rolling into Poland.
"Generals always fight the battles of the last war". You can't fight war with nuclear weapons and bombs unless willing to inflict massive collateral damage. Cyber warfare is Cold War 2 of today.
The USSR of old contained a massive propaganda campaign glossing over a catastrophic failure of its economy from corruption and military overspending. When bread disappeared from the supermarket shelves, the scam was over. The USSR fell and Putin took over to rob the corpse of what assets were left.
Propaganda is their weapon, words are the ammunition. "Meddle" is a word the Russian military would prefer Americans use to define their attack on American democracy.
So cute, isn't it? Don't use the word. Period.
Fritz Walter
(4,291 posts)Meddling is something mothers-in-law do. (Not all, but definitely some)
Interference is losing your dishTV signal in a thunderstorm.
These terms do not apply.
This was and is cyberattacking. So far, directed at political organizations and perhaps even voting systems.
Next up: our power grid.
Do we wait until they go after banks and Wall Street before we take action?!?
karin_sj
(808 posts)It makes me so angry to hear journalists, members of congress, etc., refer to this attack as "meddling," instead of what it is: an aggressive attack on our country. It's similar to when they refer to social security and medicare as "entitlements." All of these alternative, wishy-washy words water down the full meaning and only serve to make the true meaning less specific and clear.
Words are important!
elmac
(4,642 posts)trade wars, cold wars, cyber wars. The last time we actually declared war on a country was on 5 June 1942, It just doesn't happen anymore. The cold war style of war, modernized with elements of cyber war, seems to be the flavor of the day.
marieo1
(1,402 posts)Where are all these spineless republicans in congress? When DJT is head of the republican party, he speaks for all reps. How can they even hold their heads up with all the things DJT is doing and has done. Apparently, there isn't a decent, law abiding citizen among them. It's disgraceful. Shame on all republicans for standing by this lunatic.
Initech
(100,043 posts)By calling what Russia did "meddling" is downplaying the situation. It's an act of war. There are Russian spies on American soil right now trying to interfere in the next election. This is an act of war. The only reason the GOP is silent on this issue is because they are completely complicit in it. If we get back in power, nothing less than a full embargo on Russia. Sanctions aren't enough.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)narrative, because that is what it was/is.
bluestarone
(16,872 posts)Because of the perfect storm REPUBLICON congress!! Had we owned the House and Senate they would have failed miserably!!!!!!!